Free Markets, Free People

CIA Out To Get Dems?

Seriously, you just can’t make stuff like this up.

–Democrats decry waterboarding as torture and claim it occurred because of lack of Congressional oversight (on the Republican watch).

–CIA releases 40 separate documents that chronicle key Democrats, to include Nancy Pelosi, were aware of the use of EIT, to include waterboarding, for years.

–Democrats claim the CIA is out to get them and that becomes the story.



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18 Responses to CIA Out To Get Dems?

  • I hope the CIA regrets making itself a political entity and aligning with the Democrats in the past.  They have more credibility in general and get more sympathy from me.

    But I doubt it. 

  • How long till Pelosi gives up and starts plugging her ears, and screeching la la la la la la la, during press conferences???

    Any bets?

  • Wow, amazing the work Bush and Cheney did to de/re populate the CIA after the Valerie Plame debacle isn’t it?

    And now they’re ‘out to get’ the Democrats as a political class?  oh my.

  • that becomes the story where bruce?  i mean where besides a single piece, basically an op-ed, in politico?  there’s the worlds biggest paint brush again!  even someone as lazy as pedro can go visit, say slate, where they more or less dispassionately report what the major papers are headlining for the current day.  the story is how much did they know and you have to overturn an awful lot of rocks in obscure places to make your case that there’s some sort of mass media conspiracy to change the story.  if anything they’re just trying to ignore it and make it go away.

    you are the ollie stone of the so-called free marketeers!

  • Forget any lying or hypocrisy from any given politician for a moment. 
    Can we at least get one thing straight?  The Language.

    Is waterboarding, in your opinion, “EIT” or is it torture?

    Something as serious as torture cannot be parried with a “kind of” or a “maybe” or a “it depends.”  Fine lines, split hairs, slippery slopes, so on and so forth.
    These things need to have a clear definition.  Anything like this that the government has absolute power over, must be clearly defined so as to apply the rule of law.  We don’t want a government able to put the definition of torture through an Orwellian grinder and come out with “Enhanced Interrogation Techniques.”

    And you know this.

    So which is it?


    • And do you think ‘language’ is what the discussed investigation, described as
      “a sprawling investigation into the Bush administration’s interrogation techniques.”
      is about?

      And is the CIA covering their ass?  damnbetcha, and why?  because if an investigation finds the techniques were illegal it HAS to lead back to the CIA once it’s done being used to savage former Bush administration members.

      If they want to do something akin to what you’re suggesting, they get together and evaluate the techniques and OUTLAW them directly and explicitly if that is what is determined to be necessary.
      That would be productive and useful and might help reduce the vagaries that allowed ‘torture’ in the first place.

      But the real purpose of their discussion is not to worry about the horse running loose out in the fields and how they can catch it, the real purpose is to make sure they are allowed to crucify the people who opened the barn door, the people who built the barn, and the people who bought the horse,  provided they are of the correct political stripe.

      • And do you think ‘language’ is what the discussed investigation, described as
        “a sprawling investigation into the Bush administration’s interrogation techniques.”
        is about?

        It’s a political witch hunt.  Washington seems to be a perpetual Salem, Mass circa 1692.  Which, btw, torture has gotten people to admit that they were witches.
        But one cannot have an honest debate unless one is willing to admit that waterboarding is or is not torture.  It’s nice to be able to say, “We at QandO are firmly against torture,” but then ignore whether the fact that waterboarding is torture or not as long as skipping over that inconvienience puts some fire behind their salvos.

        It would be nice if Congress would set in stone that waterboarding is indeed torture.  It would also be nice if McQ would also suggest that waterboarding is or is not torture.

        You know… Just so as we know where we’re coming from.


        • I’ll say for the record that waterboarding isn’t torture.  There might be those who disagree, however.  But as practiced by the CIA, it isn’t torture. 

          Now, if they’d played a loop of Hansen CDs while interrogating, that would be another matter.

        • Depends on when waterboarding is used, Pogue. If it is used in training (where you know they’re not going to kill you) then no. If you spring it on a prisoner who has no idea whether or not you would kill him, then yes, because as Jesse Ventura said, whether you know about it or not, you think you’re drowning.

          • Agreed.
            I’m having a strange fantasy of seeing Ventura waterboard both Cheney and Pelosi.

            I gotta get some sleep.


          • Well, since AQ now knows that waterboarding won’t kill you, its no longer torture? Unless they don’t get the New York Times. Maybe the CIA can casually have back copies of the NYT placed so prisoners can be informed of this?

            Also, AQ had training camps in Afghanistan, and taught their operatives about what to expect, and what to do when captured. They even had an Ali Abdelsoud Mohamed training them, a guy who served in the Egyptian special forces as a Major and the US armed forces. I would suspect they knew all about waterboarding. Even if you know it won’t kill you, it could still make you talk because your body’s reaction can defeat mental preparation.

            Another technique our interrogators used was to threaten to send detainees back to Arab countries where they would be tortured or killed. Is that really different from a “fake execution” really?

            In any case, once this discussion becomes public, really there’s not much of a point to have the CIA waterboard anymore…the enemy knows about it and it becomes more of a liability than an asset. In fact, the more publicly announced rules we have, say against rendition to countries that might harm detainees, you lose more and more leverage. Since the war has gone pretty well – maybe thats okay.

            I wonder if the new technique they are using is threatening the detainees with being put in general population at a US prison state side. Just show “American Me” a lot on their DVDs.

          • I see the point you’re trying to make, but I fail to see the logic behind it.

            Just because any given group prepares to be tortured by a specific method, then that method no longer can be classified as torture?

            Anyone would hard pressed to claim that something like pulling ones fingernails out wouldn’t be torture.  This logic, however, would suggest that if a group prepares in someway to have their fingernails pulled out, then pulling out someone’s fingernails would no longer be torture.  Right?

            That just doesn’t make any sense at all.


          • The above comment was directed at Harun.  Just to be clear.

        • This is starting to remind me of the Black Adder episode about the Witch smeller.  It’s all beginning to make about as much sense in respect to accomplishing anything worthwhile.

          Witch smeller

          If they’d come out of this with clear language about what IS okay and what is NOT okay to use, that would be different (and be able to justify it legally). 

          But right now some Dems want to fry members of the former administration (and possibly the current CIA),  Republicans want to fry Pelosi on the same fire because they don’t have any power to do anything worthwhile, the CIA wants to disavow all knowledge of Mr. Phelps, and Dick Cheney is still alive and acting like Dick Cheney.


    (Deep Breath)


    Yeah, it was all good when the CIA decided to play against Bush. 
    Poor widdle babies.

    I kinda hope they decide to gut the CIA. It hasn’t served us well anyway for a long time. The next Republican President can then

    I consider this fight “red on red”  (in more ways than one)

    Pass the popcorn please

  • Certainly the truth is that this isn’t partisan, it’s really not.
    The Democrats forgot that and now they are paying the price.
    This is the CIA protecting itself .. from Democrats and Republicans.

    But seriously, somebody call the Democrats a Waaaaaaaaambulance !!

  • “is waterboarding, in your opinion, “EIT” or is it torture?”

    Fraternity hazing ritual.    Been there done that.  Taking off a protective mask in a small blockhouse filled with CS gas hurts a lot more, and every soldier and Marine does it in Basic/Boot.

    The decision to do it was more tortured than the mass murders it made talk. 

    It wasn’t torture, and it worked.  Win – Win.

    $1000 says we do it again before Obama leaves The White House.

  • Does anyone remember  Senator Frank Church? Sometimes revenge just takes some time to come to fruition.