Free Markets, Free People

Quote of the Day

Lech Wałęsa, former President of Poland had this to say about the Obama announcement that the US was pulling the anti-missile defense system from Poland:

“Americans have always cared only about their interests, and all other [countries] have been used for their purposes. This is another example,” Mr Walesa told TVN24. “[Poles] need to review our view of America, we must first of all take care of our business,” he added.

“I could tell from what I saw, what kind of policies President Obama cultivates,” the former president added. “I simply don’t like this policy, not because this shield was required [in Poland], but [because of] the way we were treated,” he concluded.

Another foreign policy coup. Treating our allies shabbily while sucking up to the Putins and Chavezs of the world.

~McQ

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32 Responses to Quote of the Day

  • Did you have similar complaints when Rumsfeld talked about “Old Europe vs. New Europe,” Bush ordered the state dept. to give German diplomats the cold shoulder, and the US took active positions against France? Compared to that, Obama’s policies are mild — and bluntly, Poland isn’t under any threat and isn’t that important. Bush gave them special treatment for supporting Iraq, and Obama is right to rescind it. The Poles do need to realize we’re not their servants. They aren’t that important.

    • Old Europe was not supporting our efforts, and was in fact acting to undermine our efforts. They were protecting Saddam, The food for oil travesty, etc.

      Poland was acting like a friend, supporting us.

      For someone who teaches PS you are quite dense. You reward good behaviour, punish bad behaviour. Old Europe was behaving badly, but Poland was punished for behaving well.

      • I think that you are missing the heart of Scott’s approach here, Don.

        Consider this quote from Mark Steyn’s piece at NRO today:

        “This is a recognition by the Americans of the rightness of our arguments about the reality of the threat, or rather the lack of one,” said Konstantin Kosachev, chairman of the Duma’s international-affairs committee. “Finally the Americans have agreed with us.”

        You see, if you were to ask Scott Erb what he means when he himself uses the pronoun “us,” you are not likely to get a straight answer.

        I don’t see Scott’s regurgitation of 50-year-old, decrepit, KGB propaganda lines as a coincidence. Nor the circumstances of his personal life. In fact, in those facts I think you’ll find the secret of why Scott strikes the senses with such an odd “not here” thud.

    • Erb says, “ Did you have similar complaints when Rumsfeld talked about “Old Europe vs. New Europe,” Bush ordered the state dept. to give German diplomats the cold shoulder, and the US took active positions against France?”

      Yes, Erb, I supported Rumsfeld and Bush giving Western Europe the cold shoulder. Why? For all the lives we have spent trying to save their fannies, for all the untold billions in Marshall aid and military assistance and other aid we have given them, our alleged “friends” in “old Europe” have done NOTHING – zip, nada, zilch – to help us in many years. They protested Reagan putting MX missiles into Germany, they protested our troops, they’ve barely aided the cause in Iraq (even with all our troops slowly leaving) or Afghanistan, they protected their billions in investments in Saddam Hussein’s magical land of torture, and yet someone we owe them respect, or perhaps something worse. As for Eastern Europe, these people put their lives on the line fighting our enemies (the Russkies) for us, and all they asked for is to be our friend. Why do you think that George W. Bush used to go to those countries and hundreds of thousands of people welcoming him would turn out? What did they want from us? Our love, and respect, and protection from Ivan Nosepicker next door who they cannot stand.

      So what has Obama done since getting into office? He has appeased the North Koreans, he has appeased the Iranians, and he had appeased the Russians, all of whom have laughed at his incredible naiveté and stoopidity. And for our friends in Eastern Europe, he had stuck a middle finger of hatred up to them. He had crapped right in their faces. When the 70th anniversary of the start of WWII was celebrated on September 1, every country sent a major representative, except for Obama, who sent some low lever State Department staffer.

      Is this how you treat friends? Of course not – but that is because, as I said before, The Clown™ is a naïve little man with no sense of decency or proportion. He rails against Israel building some settlements, but when Iranians shoot their own people down in the streets and their “leader” who stole an election continues to say that the Holocaust is a lie, The Clown™ says nothing. Hugo Chavez is closing his country down into a fascist state, and yet he will be allowed to go to the UN to broadcast his malarkey, while Micheletti, the duly-elected leader of Honduras, is being shut out because The Clown™ sympathizes with Zelaya, the former President and thief who was going to steal an election and have himself declared President for Life until the Honduran Supreme Court ordered him not to and then the military had to remove him when he refused.

      No, what The Clown™ did to Poland and the Czech Republic is par for the course – play with our enemies, make nice to our foes, and make sh!t out of friends. The Clown™ is not “resetting” some diplomatic clock – he is making things so bad for us around the world that it will take a generation or more for the next President to fix, starting in 2013 when we finally have a President in office who is not a radicalized Marxist wingnut.

    • That’s a modern liberal for ya. Crap on your friends and suck up to the people that treat you like Crap.

  • There’s a consistent and steady course here for all to see, Obama is wiping out a half century of blood and sacrifice in winning the Cold War and is throwing that victory under the bus. From now on the rumbles you hear and the earthquakes you feel are not from natural causes but rather from our Veterans, restless in their graves.

  • Announcing the decision abruptly on the 70th anniversary of the Soviet invasion of Poland was pretty harsh.

    But apparently, the Polish people thought it was okay. 48% think it was a good thing for Poland, 31% think it was bad, and 21% don’t know.

    • That 48% was probably caught up in anti-bush/anti-americanism as well as anti-war sentiment. Probably aggravated by their own Party fighting. Although they are happy the missiles are gone, they probably don’t hold us in high regard to begin with and this won’t change that anyway.

  • On the other hand, Walesa is right, they need to look to themselves not to the USA. We have never been very good allies. We are not constant. We might jump into a fight to protect an ally, then four years later someone who Professor Erb likes will come into power and abandon our ally.

    The USA can’t be trusted because our politics are always in flux.

    • I’m very, very sorry to say that kyle8 is right: we are terrible allies. We’ve got an unfortunate but pretty consistent history of betraying allies or others who look to us for support if not protection.

      I’m so, so sorry that we’ve done this to Poland and the Czechs. I had hoped that, with the Cold War over, we would develop lasting economic and security ties with the people who groaned under the Soviet and nazi yokes for decades. I would especially welcome close ties with the brave people of Poland.

      Unfortunately, Americans in general don’t have much interest in foreign affairs and little concern for other countries unless there is some very special reason. This makes it easy for [omitted] like that moron TAO to sacrifice other countries on the altar of (very questionable) expediency.

      I fear that other allies, such as South Korea, Japan, and even Australia will learn from this that they are far, far better off staying as far away from us as they can. They don’t need to be our enemy (though, with that f*cking idiot TAO in charge, an enemy gets better treatment than a friend), but they certainly don’t need to come to rely on us in any way.

      This episode is as depressing as it is shameful.

      As an aside, this sort of thing is why many people on the right are coming to absolutely despise TAO. It has nothing to do with the color of his skin and EVERYTHING to do with the content of his character and the decisions he makes. He is a vain, lying fool who has no understanding of our country’s needs and role in the world. He seems bent on trampling on our allies in a vain effort to appease our adversaries. I shudder to think what this arrogant, ignorant jackass will do next.

  • Scott Erb says that the Poles need to learn that they are not that important.

    I’m thinking that the State of Maine should take that attitude toward the university system it supports with money it takes from its citizens pockets.

    The world is transforming, you see, and there’s no room for lemonade stand academics who gurgle on with a third-generation copy of KGB propaganda eighteen years after the dissolution of the Soviet Union.

    I just don’t think there’s a way to justify that line in the state budget.

  • Barry Dunham’s (the Obamessiah’s real name) ineptitude is terribly dangerous. Like Carter, he demonstrates waekness and a lack of will at every turn. Which of our embassies do you suppose will be attacked and all the people inside taken hostage this time?

  • ““Americans have always cared only about their interests”

    As it should be. The USA is NOT the worlds policeman.

    “and all other [countries] have been used for their purposes.”

    That’s why we have cemeteries all over Europe and Asia?

    Europe has spent the last 65 years relying on the USA to cover their asses, like kids that still live with their parents when they’re in their 40’s and 50’s.

    Then, too, they relied on the US while building elaborate welfare states and cowtowing to the Soviets and waiting for the next shoe to drop.

    Too bad – so sad.

    • Europe has spent the last 65 92 years relying on the USA to cover their asses…

      Sorry, I needed to make a minor correction.

      • Billy,

        I can see your point, but prior to 1939 Europe was off in Never-Never land and didn’t rely on the US until after WW2.

        Since 1945, they were like the overgrown kid that lives with Mom & Dad, is a professional student, can’t hold a job, does drugs and sleeps around….

        Many Europeans admit that they are totally dependent and incapable of taking care of themselves. The remainder are too busy being cool cosmopolitans.

        • I think you underestimate Europe (my bias is my specialty is European politics — it means I’m a Europhile, but I also know a lot about Europe). So please, let’s test this out. NATO is obsolete. The Europeans are rich and certainly have the economic capacity to defend themselves. They face no real threat, so just let them go. Let them take care of themselves. It’s the 21st century, they are now united and wealthy. We don’t need to spend anything to help them.

          • That’s a pinhole Leftist academic view of Europe, and not even consistent with the current vicious concentration of power by the Left in Europe under the guise of EU bureaucratization.

            NATO isn’t obsolete: it’s successful.

            The unintended consequences of that success is that Europeans, as far as security go, are like adult children living with their parents (as Victor Davis Hanson has famous characterized them).

            As far as your “Europhilia” goes, I think that your true sentiments fit under the umbrella described in this piece by former Soviet dissident Vladimir Bukovsky:

            http://www.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=22393

  • I wish I was a US Senator, on the SASC, and I would go to Poland this week, sit down with Mr. Walesa as well as any other Polish leader, and tell them that the United States is still behind Poland, only that right now we have in power an naïve imbecile who is fugging things up. But his poll numbers are withering, and he won’t be there more than the minimum amount of time – one term. Then we can elect as President a friend of the Polish people and a friend of Eastern Europe and someone who wishes to make sure that these people are not cowed by the Russkies, and the tide will swing back to where it is supposed to be.

    I would tell him not to blame the United States for this, but only a small cabal of loons who have no interest in properly running the nation, and will bury it if given half the chance.

    • You would be the naive one if you told that to Walesa. You act like Poland is under some kind of threat. They aren’t. If you think Russia is going to attack them, you’re smoking something really strong — that’s not even in the realm of possibility. The missile shield was unneeded, a sop Bush gave to Poland thanks to their help in Iraq — an expensive sop that the US military I’m sure advised Obama to scrap.

      I’d tell Walesa to stop whining and work with the other Europeans to take care of themselves and not expect US to act like some kind of personal body guard. Then I’d pull us out of NATO. The Europeans don’t need us for their defense, we don’t need to be spending money on them.

      • You apparently believe that history has come to an end, Scott, or simply that Poland has no history.

        Which is it?

        It has only been twenty years since the Poles emerged from Soviet Russian control (ask your father-in-law to tell you about it from the Russian Communist point of view). The “alliance” they were forced into was named after their capital. Seventy years ago Hitler and Stalin each took a half of their country.

        Do you actually believe that they suddenly have no security concerns because of a blink of history’s eye?

        You say you teach political science and international relations? Where? At the Acme Driving School?

  • Say what youw ant about Bush, but I believe he genuinely wanted for other countries to be free as well. And he tried his best to promote it where he could.

    This President? Not so much.

  • The fact is that the defensive line against Russian aggression is no longer France or Germany. Its Eastern Europe, Ukraine, Georgia. Thus, “Old Europe” does not care about the USA anymore while New Europe does.

    Erb, seriously, if Russia wanted to invade Poland tomorrow, do you think Belarus would oppose this or instead allow transit?

    • Russia is in no position to start invading Europe. Sheesh. The level of fear and irrational paranoia is astounding sometimes!

      • They could invade Poland.

        • The US could invade Canada. But it’s not going to happen. The chances of Russia invading Poland are similar to the chance the US will invade Canada.

      • Erb declares an end to history, and thinks that “Sheesh” is an argument.

        Again, Poland was under Russian Soviet domination a mere 20 years ago.

        You can try your arguments on freshman, Scott. They no doubt believe that 1989 is ancient history. Do you try that “Sheesh” thing when a student asks a question that suggests you don’t know what you are talking about?

      • Erb,

        First of all the Russians have invaded Georgia just last year, so I don’t think its wise to claim they are as weak as you say.

        Secondly, do you think Stalin’s army of 1939 was strong? You know, right after the officer purges and after they “lost” to Finland! And yet, they still invaded Poland, albeit with German help.

        Right now I’d say its the USA that is hindering any Russian moves, not Poland’s defenses. If we were, for example, to disarm our nukes and remove that umbrella, and pull troops out of Europe, who knows what would happen.

        Note that Obama has made noises about disarmament and you yourself want us out of Europe….so these are not “impossible” things to happen.

        • Georgia provoked the attack with really stupid policies, and Georgia is extremely weak with a large Russian population that had already separated from the Georgian government and considers themselves Russia. Poland is in NATO, and a qualitatively different case. I laugh in the face of anyone who thinks Russia is a threat to Poland. That’s just stupid.

          • But weren’t you just advocating for the end of NATO the other day, Scott?

            It’s hard to keep track of your pro-Soviet, I mean pro-Russian, comments, there are so many of them. “Georgia provoked the attack.”

            Russia, ruled by the former KGB in essence, had nothing to do with it.

            Suffice it to say that Georgia could have managed its relations with the Russians better, but you so often take the side of the aggressor that it’s almost, what, a habit?

            You don’t need a list, do you?

            In any case, I sure hope your students follow this blog, especially those who are actually familiar with history.

  • p.s. We left South Korea off a map once, and the North Koreans decided that meant they could give it the old college try. We were ambivalent to Saddam, so he thought he could attack Iran. The Argentineans saw the UK handing over colonies and thought they could get the Falklands easily.

    Best to make sure its clear that Poland is under the defensive shield.

  • “albeit with German help”

    HA!