Free Markets, Free People

Quote Of The Day – Joe Biden/Iraq Edition

Wow.  This just takes, well, you name it.  From Katherine Jean Lopez at The Corner:

Joe Biden told Larry King last night: “I am very optimistic about — about Iraq. I mean, this could be one of the great achievements of this administration.”

That is just freakin’ breathtaking in its audacity. More here.

I guess Iraq wasn’t Bush’s fault. Instead it’s Obama’s triumph?




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39 Responses to Quote Of The Day – Joe Biden/Iraq Edition

  • Considering the record of this administration, and the fact they have nothing to do with success in Iraq, that actually makes a sort of twisted sense, from a certain viewpoint.

  • Well, you keep mocking them for saying “it’s all Bush’s fault.”

    Maybe they’re starting to listen to you and beginning to take ownership of certain things. 


    • and you miss the point as usual

    • Heh … just like most politicians. I wonder how fast Joe would revert if it all went to pieces.

    • Where Iraq is concerned, if it ends up as a stable democratic country with a good relationship with the US and a growing economy, then the Obama administration are welcome to take as much credit as they want.  Because if it descends into civil war or another despotic regime, being able to point fingers at Obama and chime “told ya so” is just no comfort at all.

  • These people now move into a position neck-and-neck with Baghdad Bob.

    Biden’s fortunate to have the excuse of extensive signs of pre-senility. Not that he just made stuff up any less before his circuits deteriorated. I can’t wait for him to become President.

    Did you see Obama the other day in the WH briefing room? Any impressions of his physical appearance?

  • Vietnam was “Nixon’s War” according to Kerry.

  • Fixing the situation in Iraq would be a huge accomplishment for the Obama Administration.  Everyone (just about) agrees it was a mistake to get involved, if Obama can figure out a way to get out without leaving it a mess, he’ll get a lot of credit for that.

    • Is the science still settled Scotty?

      • Definitely.   The science hasn’t been altered by the Goebbelsesque right wing propaganda attempts.   Shark, you don’t care about science, you’re into political narrative creation.  Truth is irrelevant to folk like you, you just want to envision the world through your ideology.   If you take that too far, you’ll always be bitter.

        • But you don’t know anything about “the science,” Scott.

          Would you like to argue with MIT’s Richard Lindzen? Or the physicist Freeman Dyson?

          You want to try to call them “Goebbelsesque?”

          Try your hand in the comments at Anthony Watts’ blog. You’ll come out of that experience like a prosciutto that’s spent an afternoon on the slicer.

    • Pardon my French,

      but there’s no fucking way you could have posted that with a straight face. 

      • And everyone, just about, agrees you’re an …….
        If Obama can figure out – he couldn’t figure out how to pour piss out of a boot with the instructions printed on the heel.

    • Of course Erb will defend Bidet. They, too, think alike. Neither has much regard for truth or fact. 

    • Your dementia is fixed in concrete now, Scott.

      There’s no possible way to count your mind as rational, not after that.

    • Fixing the situation in Iraq would be a huge accomplishment for the Obama Administration. It would! Stop laughing! I’m really, really expert on Iraq and foreign affairs in general, what with my book and all, and don’t you dare assert that it’s just a pile of dreck from a vanity press, it’s not, it’s serious analysis!

      Yes, I’m an expert on Iraq, as everyone knows from the time I declared that Sadr won out over Maliki. Well, he did! Juan Cole said so! And the violence is going to increase there, any day now, as I’ve been saying constantly for two years now. And Iran is going to be the winner and dominate the whole area, and those continous protests there don’t mean a thing. I decree it. LOL.

      Everyone (just about, that is, everyone that has a brain, which obviously excludes dense righties) agrees it was a mistake to get involved. Yes, far better if Saddam and his sons still ran everything there. Everyone agrees with that, as I said. I’m sure the Iraqi people and us would have been much better off, even the five thousand or so a month that Saddam was killing. Yes, much better off. Because the Iraqis will never be able to govern themselves. They’re just wogs, what more can you expect {eyes rolling}.

      If Obama can figure out a way to get out without leaving it a mess, he’ll get a lot of credit for that. And Bush gets no credit at all! I decree it!! He’s just odious and he can’t even say nuclear correctly, and he got us involved in the biggest foreign policy mistake in our history, maybe in the history of they human race. I decree it. LOL.

      • I forgot to mention, though, that this thread has helped me plan for my class assignment. I’ve almost finished grading their last set of essays (assignment: compare and constrast Obama’s Christlike visage with Sarah Palin’s vulgar full lips and ample bosom), and so I need to assign them a new essay. I’ve decided on “List and describe completely at least ten ways war is just icky, with at least half the examples being based on Iraq.”

    • I concur.  Not screwing up Iraq is one of the great achievements of this administration

  • It’s all of a piece:

    — Anything bad is Bush’s fault.

    — Anything good is solely due to Obama.

    But I agree with Tonus: if Iraq continues on a course to becoming and remaining a (more or less) stable democracy, I’m not too concerned with who gets the credit.  Anyway, I think most people are smart enough not to believe Joe Biden.

    Now that I think about it, the credit really goes to somebody who seldom gets mentioned: Joe Iraqi. 

    Let’s remember all those Iraqis with the ink on their fingers, and all the Iraqis who were blown up for just trying to join their police force, and all the Iraqis who have died fighting alongside our men against the terrorists.  For any American to claim, “Wow!  Look what I did!” is somewhat akin to Louis XVI taking credit for the independence of our own country.

    • Not a problem, we know who’s responsible for getting rid of Hussein, they can claim whatever they want, and, in fact, on a daily basis, they do.
      “Most people”….that would be people who don’t start out thinking about Iraq with this kind of statement wouldn’t it?
      “Fixing the situation in Iraq would be a huge accomplishment for the Obama Administration”.
      Fixing it.   Heh.    Will it be better than the way he fixed Gitmo?

    • I for one will give Bush credit for doing some things right after it became clear by 2006 that hiis Iraq policy had failed and hurt the US (and his own agenda).  Bush did things that are setting Obama up for success.
      So, yeah, if Obama can get Iraq to a good place, he deserves credit.  Anyone who tries to deny that cannot be taken seriously.  But Bush gets credit for his second term policies too.   Bush stopped trying to defeat the insurgency and coopted them, and he stopped trying to assure that Iraq would be a loyal US ally and accepted that stability, even if Iraq was pro-Iranian, was the goal.  Those changes were powerful, and I tip my hat to George W. Bush for being able to make that course correction.

      • You are so far from understanding the first thing about Iraq that you should be embarrassed to open your mouth about it.

        I know your record on this, and I know how stupid you were about it, throughout and to this moment.

      • You pathetic worm.

        You spent the entire time from 2003 to 2008 claiming it was all a disaster (“Biggest foreign policy disaster in our history!”) and that the only sane option was unilateral and immediate pullout, no matter how many Iraqi civilians died after we left. When things started looking better, you spent all of 2007 and much of 2008 bleating that the violence there was sure to ramp back up and all our gains were illusory. Pantywaists like you and Harry Reid (“The war is lost!”) encouraged the insurgents to hold out for a US pullout, and almost certainly cost lives of American servicemen. And you didn’t give a d@mn.

        Now, when it’s obvious that you were wrong, wrong, wrong, you come back in with weasel words of faint praise for Bush and attempts to steal the credit for your man, Obama, who hasn’t done anything of note on Iraq except let Bush’s plan proceed.

        So you’re prepared to say something good about Bush for coopting the insurgency instead of fighting it? Did it ever occur to your simple mind that coopting the insurgency would have been impossible until they had experienced the alternative of being slaughtered, and the populace learned that Al Qaeda was just as bad as Saddam? If you can’t find any more depth to your thinking than that, how can you stand in front of students and seriously pretend to be an instructor?

        Of course Bush made mistakes, just like every other commander of every war in history! But the bottom line is this: Bush was right and you were wrong. Come on, say it, Erbie: “Bush was right and I was wrong.” Nah, you’ll never do it. You’re far too dishonest and cowardly for that.

        • I can point you to blog entries I made during the Bush administration praising many of his moves and saying that he was changing course in positive ways.   So your claims about what I was saying are simply wrong — you rely on your imagination more than reality.   That said, the Iraq war was stupid, and a big waste of Iraqi and American life which weakened the US on the world stage and made the regional situation worse.   Iran has benefited the most from this, but as I note in my blog today, Iran may be crumbling.   If it does, and Obama can help engineer better relations with what comes after ward, he’ll really get a lot of foreign policy kudos.
          But the Iraq war was the biggest mistake in our foreign policy history, a waste of life and money.   Bush starting in 2005 realized it was a mistake, and undertook a complete reversal in policy goals, which at the time I welcomed.
          Bush was wrong.  He learned and made improvements.  I welcomed them as he made them, and didn’t join the Bush bashing.  You see, Grocky, the world is complex.  Your lasts paragraph sounds like something a fourth grader would write.

          • “You see, Grocky, the world is complex. Your lasts paragraph sounds like something a fourth grader would write.”

            This from a man who can write the following sentence with a straight face and utterly fail to see the contradiction in it:

            “Iran has benefited the most from this, but as I note in my blog today, Iran may be crumbling.”

            And of course, Iran’s troubles can’t have anything to do with a relatively free Iraq next door, can it? Sounds like you’re the one with fourth grade reasoning skills.

            And I’m not imagining anything about what you said, cause I read your preposterous dreck for years right here. Oh, I know, you’re really, really good at talking out of all sides of your mouth and then conveniently only remembering certain stuff you said. Fortunately, the memory of the folks around here is better. They know exactly who and what you are, and just how many times you have spouted nonsense.

            And you and your leftist buddies are still pathetic worms for encouraging the resistance in Iraq and thereby costing American soldier’s lives, as well as more Iraqi lives. You’re too smug and dense to face the results of your own actions, of course, just like leftists throughout history such as Walter Duranty. Again, we see it. We know what you are, and it’s pathetic. So pathetic, in fact, that you must come here and lecture us to bolster your own self-worth. You simply can’t stay away. It’s a compulsion, and you won’t even acknowledge it.

          • “I can point you to blog entries I made during the Bush administration”

            I am sure you can point to blog entries. Whether they were made when you say they were is another story.  

          • Grocky you write like you’re foaming at the mouth.  That’s sort of cute.
            Of course, you’re out of touch with reality, so let me correct your mistakes.   If you think Iraq’s situation is the reason the Iranian regime is in trouble, you clearly have no understanding of the region or Iranian internal politics.  Iran’s changes are based on domestic politics.   Iraq showed the relative impotence of the US military to easily and quickly shape political realities, forcing the US to totally alter it’s goals just to have a chance at a face saving exit.  Iran no longer fears the US.
            You’re silly propaganda talk about “leftists” and all that sounds like something from Goebbels in the Third Reich.  That’s how he talked about those who would demoralize the brave troops on the front.   And the idea that somehow opposition to a war “encouraged” the resistance is laughable.   Sure, follow the Leader!  If the leader says “war” go along, even if you know it’s wrong, because otherwise we’ll claim you’re helping the resistance.   Grocky, that’s fascism.  Your talk is the essence of anti-Americanism.  Luckily, those of your ilk are few.
            My whole reaction to your post is a smile and a thought “methinks thou doth protest too much.”

          • Yes, yes, we all know how delusional you are, Erbie. I’m perfectly willing to let the other readers around here decide which of us in more in touch with reality, or who understands what’s going on in the Middle East.

            Because everyone here knows all the stuff you got wrong. They know about the times you outright lied to try and cover up when you got things wrong. They pity the students you mislead with every class you teach.

            They know how you said you would stop commenting here and they all said you would back because. You. Can’t. Stay. Away. They know you (and I know you) better than you know yourself, with supporting evidence that we predicted your actions when you yourself said something different. You have a deep craving to come here and talk down to people and feel smugly superior to the Nazi-like people here (your words!). Yet you are incapable of confronting the contradiction at the center of your soul.

            You are the butt of an endless series of jokes, and so clueless you don’t even understand the humor. The only reason anyone wants you here is to have someone to laugh at. It’s quite sick really, the fact that you need the attention and superior attitude so much that you allow yourself to be the clown of the site. But then, you were a clown in DC and couldn’t hack it there. You retreated to a campus, out of touch, with no one to make you face reality. And there you’ll stay, doing nothing of consequence, writing nonsense that no one reads unless they’re forced to, afraid to engage the real world because you are such an incompetent clown, and forced to retreat to exhibiting your smugness and condescension at the only site I know of that will let you persist in your idiocy.

            I pity you. I really do.

          • Oh, Grocky, I don’t care much about what the readers of this blog think — it’s a small politically partisan subset who responds with a fantasy of what I’m like based on an interpretation of what I write.  What’s funny is that you get so mad that I’m “lecturing” and don’t seem to think anything’s wrong with the playground trash talk you throw around, impotently flinging out insults as if those matter on the internet.  No, what matters to me is what my colleagues and real world friends think.   In fact, it’s amusing to me how wrong you guys read me based on politically partisan fantasy.  In fact, it’s helped direct me to my current research project.
            So hurl your silly insults.  I’ll chuckle at how you get so riled up by me.

      • Because Iraq loves Iran, and Iran loves Iraq, huh Scott.
        The Iraqi’s are just waiting to be instructed by their Iranian masters.  Yep yep yep.
        National Brotherhood week over there, all year long.
        Question, is there some sort of certification you have to go through to teach at the U or M, or is it like the old British Army where you buy your teaching position in the same way they bought their commissions?  One has to wonder.

        • Gee, looker, you certainly wouldn’t get approval to teach anything.  Your reading comprehension level is low (your first paragraph is nothing like anything I said), and your second is just silly.

          • It’s not looker’s reading comprehension level that’s low, it’s your memory. He’s accurately summarized statements you’ve repeated several times.  His second paragraph is based on the assumption that minimum certification to teach at a university would include passing (high school) freshman geometry, and a teacher would therefore know that any line of reasoning would have to change when facts prove it to be incorrect. Since you have shown that there was no logic requirement for your position, he’s actually giving you the benefit of the doubt to ask if there was any certification process.
            As an aside, your writing is needs improvement as well. Parentheses are used to deemphasize a point or provide further explanation; any sentence that includes a parenthetical statement should make sense when that content is removed.

          • Well, Phil, if you want to know, I have an MA from Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies, and a Ph.D. from the University of Minnesota, a top ten program in Political Science.  I’ve worked for a Republican Senator on foreign policy issues as well.   And silly guy, spell and grammar flames are so 1990s.

          • Well, Phil, if you want to know, I have an MA from Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies, and a Ph.D. from the University of Minnesota. See, I have credentials, and that trumps everything. As for the dense righties around here supposedly showing that I’m wrong about something, well, let me, with my vast godlike power of post-modernist political science, explain to you the concept of multiple truths. See, no evidence they bring to bear can disprove what I say, because my godlike powers of political science plus all those credentials I listed above give me the power to dismiss any so-called “argument” or “evidence just by waving my hand and focusing on my own truth. I have decades of practice at it.

            Besides, I’ve worked for a Republican Senator on foreign policy issues as well. And no matter what the thick righties around here say, I was not just a gopher who fetched coffee and took notes and was expected to sit there quietly while the real staffers did the work. It wasn’t like that at all! I wrote many important memos! Why, one day my senator praised one of my memos! I still have that one framed.

            And silly guy, spell and grammar flames are so 1990s. And I am not either dodging the question of whether I can write very well. I already told you that my senator praised a memo of mine! So all you dense righties who claim I can’t write clearly can just clean the dog’s tail for all I care. Because you’re wrong. I decree it.

            Besides, as I replied to Grocky above, I’m only here to study you dense righties for my next project, kind of like anthropologists study aborigines. The big difference, of course, is that aborigines are brown-skinned noble savages who always get the benefit of the doubt on their practices, while the people around here are thick rightie Neanderthals who are presumed wrong before they even open their mouth.

  • “Fixing the situation in Iraq would be a huge accomplishment for the Obama Administration”.

    It may be their only accomplishment.

  • It is supremely galling to me that after these morons waged a campaign of derogation and defeat about Iraq that they could possibly even silently move their lips in the direction of saying such outrageous crap.

    This is the Soviet style in American politics, and it didn’t just blow in the window by coincidence.