Free Markets, Free People

Voting for Obamacare? Fair warning …

Rasmussen has the numbers that should have Democrats who are voting yes worried:

Fifty percent (50%) of U.S. voters say they are less likely to vote for their representative in Congress this November if he or she votes for the health care plan proposed by President Obama and congressional Democrats.

A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey taken Wednesday night finds that 34% are more likely to vote for their Congress member’s reelection if he or she supports the president’s health care plan. Eight percent (8%) say the health care vote will have no impact on how they vote this November, and another seven percent (7%) are not sure.

Rasmussen also reports that 33% favor a single payer system and that heavily influences their plan to vote for their rep if their rep votes for the plan. However, as even Maxine Waters knows, 33 or 34% won’t get you elected. What will get you elected is the independent vote. And that’s pretty bad news for those contemplating a “yes” vote:

But perhaps more significantly, 51% of voters not affiliated with either major party are less likely to support someone who votes for the legislation. Just 32% of unaffiliateds are more likely to vote for someone who supports the bill.

I still don’t get this. If Democrats back off, say “we heard you” and team up with and include Republicans they could actually pass something called health care reform (not that I’d support that either – just discussing the politics here). And by doing that, they could lay it all in the GOP’s lap with a “put up or shut up” move, preserve their majorities in Congress and most likely win over a majorities of Americans to their side (unfortunate, but true).

So why the continued push to get this monstrosity through? Why play dumb power politics when you can accomplish much the same thing with smart politics and preserve your base of power?

Look, we watch politics here at QandO, and this is just dumb politics. It is going all-in for something which is very unpopular, will most likely destroy the Democratic majorities in Congress and doesn’t even begin the benefit cycle (the downside of gaming the CBO) until 2014 when it is entirely likely they may not even hold the White House any more.

I don’t get it – this was supposed to be such a cool and smart man who was well attuned politically – these are not the politics of someone fitting that description. It just says to me again that while he may be the face man, he’s not really in charge of the agenda.

~McQ

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22 Responses to Voting for Obamacare? Fair warning …

  • I think they Democrats figure they are in trouble in November regardless of passing the HCR bill, so they figure they might as well pass it by any means necessary, knowing it will be impossible to repeal, and by the time it gets to the SCOTUS, President Obama will have replaced one or two justices.

  • Short term loss as far as the socialists are concerned. Like Social Security or Medicare, this is here forever. Those who lose their seats will still have sweetheart appointments or positions in the Department of Vitamin Distribution.
    It’s dumb, but calculated. It’s been part of the plan for a long time. Hilary was just a little ahead of the ‘right time’.

    • In 2013 if the Democrats manage to still be in the minority in Congress (assume nothing when it comes to the GOP screwing up anything) and the WH is GOP, what will American’s miss concerning the impact of this bill?

      The taxes. That’s it.

      No benefits until 2014.

      Not smart (but necessary to game the CBO numbers). And definitely not the same as trying to repeal SS or Medicare.

      • I think that the dems are counting on a few things:

        1.  For the short term, many of them may actually believe their own propaganda that the American people really want O-care and will love it when it’s passed, but have been (temporarily) duped by eeeevil insurance companies and the Republicans and Fox News.

        2.  They may believe (with good reason) that the collective memory of the American people is short and that, by the mid-terms, people will have forgotten about the Slaughter Rule, the Cornhusker Kickback, the Louisiana Purchase, and all the rest of it.  Think about how fast people forgot about Iraq and the Patriot Act (recently and quietly renewed) when MiniTru wasn’t reminding them every day.  For that matter, consider how unpopular Congress usually is, yet individual members keep getting reelected.

        3.  The only members really at risk at the Blue Dogs.  SanFran Nan hates them almost as much as she hates Republicans and won’t mind seeing them go.

        4.  Even if the dems think they’ll take some punishment in the midterms and possibly in ’12, this is a long-term winner for them.  “Vote for me or the Republicans will take away your medical care!”

        5.  This sort of program exists in most other countries, and those people accept it.  I like to think that Americans are NOT like foreigners, but the dems probably think differently.  Uncle Sugar has been screwing us seven ways to Sunday for years… and we take it with hardly a peep.

        6.  Health care will not be the issue in the mid-terms: JOBS will be the issue.

        7.  Finally, I agree with Robb Allen: even if a dem loses his seat, I’m sure that there will be a comfy bureaucrat job or lobbyist position waiting in January.  Look at how much money Tom Daschle and Rahm Emmanuel and Jamie Gorelick made at Fanny and other places after they left public office.  I don’t think there’s such a thing as a poor former member of Congress, ESPECIALLY one who took one for the team on a key vote.

        The dems are like con artists: they know that running a con is risky and they might get hurt if the mark figures out what they’re up to, but they figure that the payoff is worth it and, even if the mark eventually figures out that he’s been had, they’ll be long gone with the money and even calling the cops won’t do him any good.  The money’s gone, and they got it.

  • You really don’t understand politics if you don’t get it.  The polls now are as meaningless as the ones in early 2009 which predicted a massive Democratic sweep in November 2010.  The debate du jour goes away.  Images remain.  The image of Obama as a loser, unable to even get health care past, the Republicans calling the shots vs. the image of Obama passing an historic bill and looking like a true leader?   Also, off year elections are about rallying the base — most in polls are probably less likely to vote.   If Obama lost this, his Presidency would be in jeopardy.   Now they will go out and praise the historic victory (assuming they pull it off), the Republicans will look whiney, and then push other issues out there to dominate the news and agenda.    This is a must win for Obama and the Democrats to have a shot in the fall of mitigating their loses, and to assure Obama is re-elected.   To cite single polls like that in March is to show ignorance of the dynamism of politics, and the power of images.   Remember when McCain was dead because of his stand on immigration?    Obama put it all on the line here because he had to.   This is a make or break moment for his Presidency.   Watch and learn how the politics unfolds in the next eight months, and remember — the moment is just the moment, and it is quickly past.

    • You’re clearly holding the approved script, Scott. But you read the lines so poorly.

    • You really don’t understand politics if you don’t get it.  The polls now are as meaningless

      >>>> Yet in the last post on health care, you gleefully pointed to a POLL who’s results bolstered your point. now all of a sudden, all these polls are meaningless?

      You’re not even trying very hard anymore, are you, you socialist cretin?

      • And one more thing Scott- remember how you endorse the “win at all costs now” approach, when the GOP does the exact same things (or worse) down the road.

    • “The polls now are as meaningless as the ones in early 2009 which predicted a massive Democratic sweep in November 2010.”

      That’s just stupid, Scoot. Early 2009 we had an untested new President who looked cool. The polls were meaningless at that point.

      Now we have had a chance to watch the President, and he’s a socialist idiot. The Democrats better ban tar and feathers, real quick.

  • This bill is the longest suicide note in the history of mankind.

  • McQ: “I still don’t get this. If Democrats back off, say “we heard you” and team up with and include Republicans they could actually pass something called health care reform…”

    It’s not about Democrats, at least not the elected reps. The force on this is coming from the power brokers behind the Party. The Soros contingent, the unions, maybe even some foreign money, and the spokesperson-brokers of those already reduced to serfdom who vote for a living. This is a crucial part of their plan. Individual Democrats or their constituents are totally unimportant. The power brokers could care less about them. Nationalized health care is the holy grail of putting America in its place, stripping it of its contentious and independent ways, and closing the gates of the big plantation. This is the leftover dream of the mental midgets who have wanted this kind of power their whole lives, who fancy themselves as what Thomas Sowell calls the annointed.

    This is the political sodomy that accompanies the idolatry of the state. We’ve seen this before; just not here, not like this.

  • I don’t get it

     
    It’s really quite simple, McQ.  The Dems are now looking at a damn if you do – damned if you don’t moment.  So why not?
    Look, Erb is right.  Midterms are all about the political base.  And the opposition is already fired up and ready to go to the polls regardless of the outcome of “health care reform.”  If the Dems fail to pass something that they can call health care reform, then they give their base no motivation to go to the polls this November.
     
    Also, this polling might suggest that independents are against the bill, but that doesn’t mean they will travel to the ballot box this year.  And if the meat of this bill doesn’t take effect until 2014, then not much will change in their day-to-day lives now until November.  They will still have the same insurance, same doctors, same medicine, ect.
     
    If this bill passes, it’s not the end of the world…  Not yet, anyway.
     
    Cheers.

  • If you don’t pass something, I would guess that some steam would be let out of the Tea Party and independent vote. If you do pass it, I bet the anger goes up.

  • You really don’t understand politics if you don’t get it. Got that? If you don’t understand it, you don’t get it. {eyes rolling} That’s not either a tautology, and I don’t either have a compulsion to post even when I have nothing of importance to say, so stop saying that. And stop laughing.

    The polls now are as meaningless as the ones in early 2009 which predicted a massive Democratic sweep in November 2010. That’s right, polls seven months before an election are just as meaningless as polls 22 months before an election, and don’t let anyone tell you different. And I didn’t write that because I have a variant of Tourette’s syndrome that instead of a compulsion to write profanity, it’s a compulsion to write stupidity. So stop saying anything like that. Really. You guys need to take me seriously, because I am a tenured professor of political science with advanced degrees. So let me blather on with meaningless, zen-sounding nonsense for a while to sound profound, and try to contain your hyena-like laughing while I do that.

    The debate du jour goes away. Images remain. The image of Obama as a loser, unable to even get health care past, the Republicans calling the shots vs. the image of Obama passing an historic bill and looking like a true leader? Have I run enough random phrases together to be completely incomprehensible yet? Also, off year elections are about rallying the base — most in polls are probably less likely to vote. And this election can’t possibly be a game-changer that breaks the rules because of widespread disgust with overspending, debt-laden government, so just shut up about that. Those tea parties don’t mean a thing, and you guys are just mesmerized by Sarah Palin’s full lips and ample bosom, and the way she winks at you through those naughty librarian glasses. You have lost all facility for critical thought because of that, and become brainless, trite, Nazi-like thuggish climate deniers, as well as being wrong about everything political in the last few months. So I just have to tell you how wrong you are, and I really hate to insult you like that, but your playground insults are just too much sometimes. LOL. {chuckle} It’s because you doth protest too much. {eyes rolling} And don’t start up about my compulsion to talk down to you. If you took my online class, you’d see how smart I am, and the fact that I talk down to you by telling you that you should take my class doesn’t mean I have some weird mental craving to talk down to you. I don’t. Really. Stop laughing, I said!

    If Obama lost this, his Presidency would be in jeopardy. Now they will go out and praise the historic victory (assuming they pull it off), the Republicans will look whiney, and then push other issues out there to dominate the news and agenda. I’m telling you, all this will fade away as soon as we pull this one over on the proles. We know them, they have a short attention span, and we wise leftists count on that to let us keep on ratcheting up the control over them. They always forget what we’ve done in a few weeks. This time will be no different. You’ll see. And if I’m wrong about that, I’ll admit it. Well, no, actually I won’t, because I won’t be wrong having talked out of all four sides of my mouth on this issue. I’ll just recapitulate the fuzzy stuff I said that comes out closest to reality and pretend I never said any of the other stuff.

    This is a must win for Obama and the Democrats to have a shot in the fall of mitigating their loses, and to assure Obama is re-elected. Yes, ramming through something that is heavily opposed in the voting population is exactly the way to do better in elections. You’ll see. Only wise leftists with godlike powers of political science would understand why that is. It’s complicated, and far beyond the capacity of you grunt engineer types to comprehend, especially the ex-military basket cases who write most of the posts around here. LOL.

    Obama put it all on the line here because he had to. This is a make or break moment for his Presidency. Watch and learn how the politics unfolds in the next eight months, and remember — the moment is just the moment, and it is quickly past. Our comrades colleagues in the media make darn sure of that. {chuckle}

  • It is amazing that Republicans and some Democrats are refusing to vote for the Health Bill, after  all it is not just for them!  It is supposed to be for their Constituents Benefit, many who are without any Insurance.  They are acting like “BANKS”–Get  what they need, nothing for the other  people.  The Republicans and Democrats not VOTING have Health Benefits for Self and Family, paid by TAX PAYERS, so why are they so Full of GREED!!

    If the bill is not to their liking they have months to make adjustments and amenndments.   Many of the Republicans and Democrats need to Leave Office and allow Contemporary Thinkers with ideas of the 21st Century get Voted into Office and Move USA Forward, because some are: TOO OLD AND STUCK IN THE PAST WITH THEIR POLITICAL IDEOLOGY ON THEIR SLEEVE of  “GREED AND HATE FOR THE   “Have Not”

    As member of party, it is appalling to witness such Stuck-in-Mud action  They are not Voting for President
    Obama, he has Health Insurance, same as they have, and paid by tax payers, but willing to Share  “To Help Others.!!

  • Moderation in what way?   I did not call anyone an IDIOT!!

  • Was my message deleted?

  • It is amazing the Republicans and Democrats that are not Voting for the Health Bill should look within themselves, Remember, they have Health Benefits paid by Tax Payers, same as the President,  So why should’t
    others have an opportunity

    The Health Insurance Bill is for the “Least among Us!”

    • Is there an argument or a point buried somewhere in your ranting? I couldn’t see one.

      Well, unless you are a believer in magic, as in just pass a law that everyone has healthcare, and bam! it materializes out of the ether.

  • So what would be the GOP “comparable” to this bill?