Free Markets, Free People

Libyan update

Not much new to report – stalemate continues.  However what we seem to be finally learning is that the so-called “rebels” aren’t organized enough to do much of anything to force the situation:

Too little is known about Libya’s rebels and they remain too fragmented for the United States to get seriously involved in organizing or training them, let alone arming them, U.S. and European officials say.

U.S. and allied intelligence agencies believe NATO’s no-fly zone and air strikes will be effective in stopping Muammar Gaddafi’s forces from killing civilians and dislodging rebels from strongholds like Benghazi, the officials say.

But the more the intelligence agencies learn about rebel forces, the more they appear to be hopelessly disorganized and incapable of coalescing in the foreseeable future.

However, that hasn’t stopped the rebels from asking for a $2 billion dollar loan from the West.  They’re never too disorganized to demand money, are they?  Hey, this is the Arab League’s baby – let them front any loans.  Oh, and check out this photo for a little picture of the reality we’re talking about.

Meanwhile, NATO could use a few more aircraft:

Nato Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen has told a foreign ministers’ summit the alliance needs "a few more" aircraft for its mission in Libya.

Mr Rasmussen said he had received no offers from any ally at the meeting in Berlin to supply the extra warplanes, but he remained hopeful.

I’m sure he does.  Of course, this situation has little if anything to do with the stated mission of NATO (a defensive pact), but it is an organization in search of a mission.   One of the reasons it has to beg for other participants is there’s nothing binding about war’s of choice on NATO members and, as you might expect, a good number of them ore sitting this one out.

Finally, our leaders fight back with a NYT editorial.  Obama, Cameron and Sarkozy have an op/ed there addressing Libya.  This particular paragraph caught my eye:

We must never forget the reasons why the international community was obliged to act in the first place. As Libya descended into chaos with Colonel Muammar el-Qaddafi attacking his own people, the Arab League called for action. The Libyan opposition called for help. And the people of Libya looked to the world in their hour of need. In an historic resolution, the United Nations Security Council authorized all necessary measures to protect the people of Libya from the attacks upon them. By responding immediately, our countries, together with an international coalition, halted the advance of Qaddafi’s forces and prevented the bloodbath that he had promised to inflict upon the citizens of the besieged city of Benghazi.

Tens of thousands of lives have been protected.

I’m sorry, but I couldn’t help but think “jobs created and saved” when I read all of that monkey poo.

Meanwhile in Syria, they’re issuing instructions not to kill over 20 protesters a day because apparently that’s a threshold they know the great protectors of certain civilians will ignore.  Besides, some Democrats think Assad is a reformer, and don’t forget, he hasn’t used airplanes on the protesters – yet.

~McQ

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15 Responses to Libyan update

  • Yeah, what’s interesting is that it appears Obama lied in the first instance.
    GaDaffy, for all his evil, didn’t say he would attack civilians NOT UNDER ARMS.  In fact, he said he would forgive those who disarmed.  Now, you can take that with a grain…or pile…of salt.  Still, it isn’t the “genocide” we were sold.

  • Excuse me but is it so clever to be backing people who will willingly put their 10-year-old children in the line of fire??? I seem to recall that when child soldiers are used in other places there is well-deserved condemnation, but now it is not really even remarked upon and the photo even becomes “editors choice”??

    • I am sure our allies the Northern Alliance did similar stuff.

      • I don’t know if they did or not, but I don’t remember them being used as editor’s choice photo though by a media that used to be so sensitive to even the slightest whiff of improper behavior.

  • As far as Syria goes, expect that bag limit of 20 protestors per day to start going up incrementally.

  • Qaddafi’s victory will be to align with the most radical rebels by buying them off and agreeing to finance their asymmetrical jihad against common enemies, like France, the U.K., and the United States. They’re already hardened to battle, and the bloom is already off the rose in their “Spring” with NATO.

  • In Misrata, outside observers say Gaddady’s forces are strictly attacking the rebel fighting forces.
    The death count of several hundred only includes 3 women – that means they are not killing indiscriminately.
    This is like all of those mass graves in Kosovo I suspect.
     

  • This Libyan thing (adventure?  debacle?) keeps getting more and more puzzling.  I expect idiocy and incompetence from The Dear Golfer, but why in the hell are Cameron and Sarkozy doubling down?  Do they think that a joint op-ed is going to scare Godaffy?  Or convince various people around the world (including the ones who actually vote for them) that they are doing a good job?

    Honestly, if I was The Dear Golfer, I’d be perfectly happy to let this incident fade into memory as quickly as possible.  “Libya?  Libya?  Oh, yes… Well, NATO asked us to help out, and we did.  As I said at the time, it was a short-term commitment to assist, which it was.  If you’ve got any questions about what’s happening now, I’ll be happy to give you their phone number and you can ask them.”

    I cannot for the life of my figure out what’s going on.  Are the leaders of the US, Britain and France REALLY this stupid, feckless and incompetent?

    McQ[T]his situation has little if anything to do with the stated mission of NATO (a defensive pact), but it is an organization in search of a mission.

    Exactly.  The other NATO members seem to understand this very clearly.  I guess they learned their lesson from Bosnia back in the ’90s.  Further, with just about everybody in the world except the Red Chinese flat broke, I’m guessing nobody has much cash laying around to fund a poorly (dishonestly?) defined, open-ended mission against a country that likely hasn’t done a damned thing to them other than offend their delicate sensibilities.

    We must never forget the reasons why the international community was obliged to act in the first place. As Libya descended into chaos with Colonel Muammar el-Qaddafi attacking his own people, the Arab League called for action. The Libyan opposition called for help. And the people of Libya looked to the world in their hour of need.

    I suppose that there are some people who buy into this garbage.  However, I suggest that, for MOST people, it undermines the alleged goal of multinational efforts to stop genocide and other crimes by making such efforts a transparent farce.  Imagine if your local DA crowed about his “historic” prosecution of one fairly minor crook while dozens of others walked the streets with impunity, ESPECIALLY when there’s reason to believe that the DA has some personal, greedy motive to get the one crook.

    And if the Arab League calls for action, then they ought to be supplying a helluva lot more of it than they are.  Or at least footing the bill.  And what “Libyan opposition” are we talking about?  Have they got ANY organization at all?  Or is it a fairly small, amorphous group of people who have any number of reasons to hate Godaffy and hope somebody else will kill him for them so they can take his place?

    Bah.

    • I suspect Cameron and Sarkozy know how to play the game better than Obama, if it all turns to custard it will be America’s/Obama’s war and no one else’s. Anyway, the Frenchies are used to North African adventures and making sure the Mediterranean stays nice and peaceful.

  • “…the Arab League called for action.” Since when do we accept the charges for their calls?

  • I’m not sure why what was effectively a riot somehow turned into “the Libyan Revolution” in someone’s mind.
     
    The rioters protesters at a G8 conference have more organization than these essentially spontaneous ‘Islamic Spring” riots had. 
    Anyone who thought there was any credibility to the idea that these outbursts could turn into a successful revolution should be looking for work collecting recyclables on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays.
     
    Now, if this had happened during the Cold War, we’d know who was behind it – it would either have been US or THEM.  This?  This was like assuming the Bloods could be involved in a riot, and from there go on to run the city of Los Angeles.

    • lookerThe rioters protesters at a G8 conference have more organization than these essentially spontaneous ‘Islamic Spring” riots had. [emphasis mine – dj505]

      I wonder if you are on to something.  The syllogism goes something like:

      1.  Captain Bullsh*t (formerly known as The Dear Golfer, formerly known as The Annointed One) gave a high-flown speech in Cairo about liberty, democracy, and pixie dust or something

      2.  Months later, there are riots in Egypt

      3.  The riots MUST have been inspired by Captain Bullsh*t’s inspiring inspirational speech, and therefore MUST also be in favor of liberty, democracy, and pixie dust

      QED

      • Full disclosure: I picked up “Captain Bullsh*t” from AoSHQ.

        http://ace.mu.nu/archives/314807.php

      • Look back at the actual organization of our own revolution – it certainly was not spontaneous outbreaks in several eastern cities without necessarily a link between them.  There was an organization and structure behind it that enabled them, once stirred, to trap a British Fleet in Boston Harbor with no outside help (our far remove from the bulk of British power was also incalculable in helping…)
         
        Several dozen people texting several dozen others to do what a flash mob might do does NOT make the basis for overthrowing an established, and tyrannical, government.   The West interceded not because some Washington, Jefferson, Adams like figure asked them to, they interceded because K-Daffy said he was going to punish anyone in Benghazi who resisted his return.  That would be like France jumping in to the American Revolution only because King George III said he was going to go Boston and hang every rebel he found, rather than long and tedious negotiation between America representatives and the French Monarchy to convince them to render aid.
         
        As I said before – this was a hyperextended flash mob in action, with NEVER a serious hope, plan, or principle.  It was people yearning to be ‘free’ without following through with what that meant – it’s a modern video game revolution fantasy where no one bothers to worry about how big the new country would be, what kind of government it would have, who would represent them to the world, how would they, etc, etc, etc, and all the things that go into adult real life nation building.
         
        As you know, it’s an enormous task.  The guys who went out on Thursday morning (or whatever day it started) and rioted in Benghazi, Misrata, Tobruk, Tripoli, and so on, had not a clue that 2 days later they might have to actually get a new country put together.  It might have been what they fantasized about, in the way people day dream on their way home for work, but it sure as hell wasn’t a plan and there sure as hell weren’t thousands of them behind it with anything like even a slightly unified vision.
         
        And for the WEST to jump in to this and PRETEND that it EVER had a chance was damn near criminal.
        Yeah, sounds like I’m recommending K-Daffy as a ruler, but when this current fiasco ends, I’m wagering he’ll be in power, and he’ll be filling pits with bodies, and there’s not F*all the world will do about it other than a lot of speeches and ‘tsk tsk tsk’.   There would have probably been far fewer people harmed, and far less damage to Libya if it had ended quickly.
         
        Maybe NEXT time, but sure as hell, not THIS time.   This first group was the blood that might have watered Jefferson’s tree of liberty.
        These guys weren’t patriots, they were rioters, and that’s all they were.

  • As Yosemite Sam might observe – “Jumpin Je-Hosephat!”
     
    “Looking for work collecting recyclables on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays”
     
    “North Atlantic Treaty Organization leaders “are now realizing that this is not a very short mission,” German Deputy Foreign Minister Werner Hoyer said in an interview today. “It takes much longer, it’s much more complicated, it’s much more demanding than some had expected.””
     
    Are they hiring 17 years olds to make these decisions?  Who ARE these people?  How did they get to be in charge?
     
    Oh, wait,  forgot, I live in the US, I shouldn’t be asking about responsible adult leaders until we’ve fixed our own problems.
     
    We should be grateful the Chinese aren’t currently interested in world conquest, I’m willing to bet their leaders aren’t nearly so feckless.