Free Markets, Free People

Why it’s pointless to argue with the left, summarized in 33 seconds

As the blue social model collapses, it’s most vocal defenders continue their retreat into delusion. This 33 second segment of a video from Reason TV is one of the more jaw-dropping examples.

Communism caused 3/4 of a century of deprivation, misery, and quasi-slavery, and killed 100,000,000 in the bargain. The left still hasn’t come to terms with that. I’m pretty sure they never will.

You could sit the woman in the video down and present her with a mountain of evidence that Cuba is a sick society, a poor society, a repressive society in which citizens who oppose the Cuban government the way she opposes the US government are locked up for most or all their life. It wouldn’t matter. She has constructed an elaborate fantasy in her head.

After all she’s "seen Cuba" and it sounds like she really loved the role of the useful idiot being shown the potemkin society the Cuban appartchiks allowed her to see. She thereby proves to herself how moral she is, and how much better and smarter she is than we skeptics who have seen the pictures of real Cuban healthcare, cockroaches and all, smuggled out by people who would have been shot or imprisoned if they had been caught with those pictures.

You can see it in her face, and hear it in her voice – that condescension that reveals her inner conviction that she’s smart and moral, and other people ought to think exactly the way she thinks, even though to anyone connected to reality, she’s clearly delusional.

Deep down in her own mind, where she never dares go, some part of her knows that it’s a delusion and a fantasy. Because otherwise, she would want to live in this paradise she describes. She and thousands would be taking whatever measures they could come up with to go and live there, instead of it being the exact opposite, with thousands upon thousands risking their lives on makeshift boats to get out. Consciously, she spins her fantasy about how wonderful Cuba is, but subconsciously, she never dares think about actually living there.

One of the main reasons leftists talk this way is partially to convince themselves. Reality intrudes more every day as the blue social model breaks down. But facing that failure means admitting a lifetime of being a gullible fool. Most of them don’t have the psychic strength for that. They can’t admit that there’s a single thing wrong with the leftist worldview.

For example, they’ve also never come to terms with the housing bubble and the government’s role in it. They prefer to believe that a financial industry that had intelligently managed home mortgages for decades just collectively lost its mind and started writing bad loans, and the government actions that took place in the same period are complete coincidences. The pressure towards "affordable housing", the implicit and explicit threats by government to those who didn’t loan to minorities, the pipeline to offload the risk to quasi-government agencies – they look directly at those things, and apparently suffer inattentional blindness because they just can’t see them.

They’ve never come to terms with the fact that the worst areas of the country are those that have been governed by liberal and leftist Democrats for decades – including a crumbling city that was once one of America’s shining success stories, now undone by unions, liberalism, bureaucrats, and corruption.

They look at exponential curves that foretell the collapse of Social Security and Medicare, and bleat about how we just have to make the rich pay their "fair share", blind to the fact that the top ten percent already pay 70% of income taxes.

You can’t even tell them that Bush didn’t really hold a plastic turkey. They formulate their narratives and talking points, and that’s the end of their cognitive effort. They have thereby constructed a fantasy world they prefer to live in.

In that world, Cuba really does have superior healthcare and free elections.

Europe is advanced and stable, a beacon for the rest of the world, not an aging society that is broke, with an unsustainable welfare state and a birth rate that spells disaster in a generation.

China is a sterling example of how wonderful things can be when people like them run things, not a repressive society that hides its pollution  and filth, keeps a bubble going by building ghost cities, and is facing demographic problems never seen in history on such a scale.

Israel is a nation of violent butchers, who just happen to save the sick babies of their enemies as a hobby.

And the US is a racist society, holding down minorities with trigger-happy vigilantes, instead of a country that elected a black president and has been the destination for every race and creed on the globe.

OK, let them live in their fantasy world. In the end, reality always wins. And it’s pretty clear that even the reality of a total meltdown of the blue social model isn’t going to make them re-examine their fantasies, any more than the meltdown of the Soviet Union did. As I said, they don’t have the psychic strength to face it.

They prefer groupthink to reality, because confronting reality means confronting their worst fear: that they might be wrong, that they might not be smarter than the rest of us. That they might be frauds who can talk or write, but who can’t think.

So let them be. Laugh at them if you like; there’s plenty of humor to be found in their floundering, and goodness knows we need humor to get through the mess they’ve put us in. But don’t let them induce you to waste your time by trying to disprove their fantasies. That’s a lost cause.

Tweet about this on TwitterShare on FacebookShare on Google+Share on TumblrShare on StumbleUponShare on RedditPin on PinterestEmail this to someone

48 Responses to Why it’s pointless to argue with the left, summarized in 33 seconds

  • Europe is advanced and stable, a beacon for the rest of the world, not an aging society that is broke, with an unsustainable welfare state and a birth rate that spells disaster in a generation.
    ———————————————————————————————————

    Dude…!!! Consider the Erpish wrists… This could lead to a meeting with cutlery…!!!!

    • Actually the future is much worse than that for Europe. Many European states will become defacto Sharia “republics”. Mark my words within 10 years we will see a vast inflow of Jewish refugees from Europe as the violence becomes too much to handle. ….
      .
      We will have to insist to them that they are welcome, but that their left wing views that got them into so much trouble are not welcome.

      @Ragspierre

  • Come on, where did you find the actual model for Kyle Broflovski’s mother AND get her on video talking about Cuba? Unreal.

    • @Ragspierre @Ragspierre That’s the other side of the problem. I highlighted the delusional side; your link is the power side. They’re connected. Since they regard themselves as smarter and more moral than us, naturally they need to power to boss us around. After all, they don’t believe in natural rights, as our buffoonish political science professor has lectured us. So they see no particular limits on their power (as we see in their Supreme Court arguments), and their superior morality and intelligence mean they have the right, indeed the responsibility, to push aside our quaint notions of rights to impose their leftist utopia on us.

      • @Billy Hollis — the delusional/power-lust is psychological. But psychology is mostly derivative. This review (about 18 pages on 5×8 paper) gives a good insight into how that psychology developed over the past 200+ years.http://www.aynrandstudies.com/jars/archives/jars7-2/jars7_2mhocutt.pdf

        Yes, it IS pointless, just as it’s pointless discussing it with you dog or cat – their brains aren’t wired for it, and in humans, the brains are short-circuited.

        • @Sharpshooter That’s welcome material. I have a half-written post about post-modernism on the left – you might recall that I’ve visited that subject before. I had not previously seen that study, so I’ll definitely read it.

      • @Billy Hollis If I may play the Mad Prof for a minute then I’m pretty sure these lyrics (not from Rush, sorry) sum up the mentality:
        ===========================================================================
        Our subject isn’t cool, but he thinks it anyway
        He may not have a clue, and he may not have style
        But everything he lacks, well he makes up in denial
        So don’t deflate, play it straight
        You know he really doesn’t get it anyway

  • Cuba is really not a Potemkin village. It’s just that those who go there see what they want to see. You can visit the doctors offices and there will be doctors there, but little or no medicine; things are so bad that they are willing to use placebos such as experimenting with magnets. The streets of Havana look like something out of a 1950’s postcard because since the embargo, there haven’t been any new automobiles since then. Havana needs a coat of paint, and don’t forget to bring your own toilet paper. But, of course, you can miss all that if you don’t look.

    • @Neo_ I’m confident that there are places they don’t take their useful idiots. You may be right about the rest, and certainly expectation effects can be powerful, but I’d find it surprising if they didn’t have a few facades created just for the impression they want to convey. Never been there, so could be wrong, but given the pervasive and inherent dishonesty in Communist regimes, I’d certainly expect some deceptions when it comes to ferrying sympathetic leftists around.

      • @Billy Hollis Not quite Potemkin places, but like they did with Fatty Moore, they took him to the place the party leaders (amazing how even Cuba has 1%, no?) live, and simply tell the rubes “this is how EVERYONE lives” here in Cuban workers paradise.

        • @The Shark Come on, you KNOW that people like this women never envisage themselves as anything other than the 1%. There is no way the state would ever screw THEM six ways from Sunday just for the heck of it. Which is why they are so confident about moving there…

    • @Neo_ Never been to Cuber, but I’ve had some of their cigars! Look, even by Caribbean standards, the place is a dump…and a deadly dump. It could have been a different story, and maybe it will be before long.

    • @Neo_ IIUC it’s only the USA that has a partial trade embargo on Cuba. Canada, the EU, LA, China, etc.. are free to trade and visit as much as they like.

      • @TheOldMan Then the fact they’re not importing thousands of newer cars into this workers paradise is an indication of…..something the fat chick in the video doesn’t comprehend?

        • @looker Add it to the vast list of things the fat chick does not comprehend.

        • @TheOldMan But really, Billy is right, they’re actually kind of cute in their ignorance the way a 3 year old is cute when they sing “Round John Virgin” in Silent Night or say, “Our Father, who art in heaven, Harold be thy name”. Alas, we can’t stop them from voting, unlike the 3 year old.

      • @TheOldMan COOOOORRRRRect. PLUS, how many people from even…like Haiti…are building rafts to get to CastroWorld…???

  • Well the proof of the pudding is in the eating… so in cases like this ask yourself how many sufferers of Erbian Reality Dysfunctions (diagnosed by the reflex spouting of prepared one-line arguments and that slightly desperate look in the eye) actually up-sticks and move to Cuba or even Germany or Sweden based on their praise of the systems in place there? Yeah I thought so, but at least they are busy fighting the good fight at home risking all day and night on meagre salaries and untenured positions… errmmm… well I am sure they are at least voluntarily paying extra into the tax system in the USA to aid the state. What?

  • Hey, look! A Watch and Learn moment is now available.
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2135434/Outrage-Egypt-plans-farewell-intercourse-law-husbands-sex-dead-wives-hours-AFTER-death.html
    ==========================================================================
    Approximately how many levels is this WRONG on? It can’t be just me, this is horrific, creepy, and exceedingly sick.

    • Just reflecting on the whole progressive idea that cultures and countries aren’t right or wrong, just different.

      • Ya know, just when I think the fundamental whackjobs can’t dig their hell hole any deeper, they find what I thought was rock bottom to be just some dry clay and continue their downward progress. State sanctioned 14 year old brides? sex with the dead?

    • @looker There’s a Larry-The-Cable-Guy “married sex” joke in there…but I’m not the one to go there. Nosireeeee…

  • But it’s really pointless to argue with conservatives—I only do it in case I can make a dent in their repetitive talking points that they have been reading and talking about forever. The reason it’s pointless is because conservatives wear blinders and don’t ever venture into discussions of their views with the enemy. I’m a liberal, but I blog on conservative sites to see what the other side is thinking. Sometimes I’m surprised, but not very often.

    Like the article upon which I’m commenting today, conservatives think every liberal supports Cuba and other communist countries. You conservative have to get around more and find out how we really think, instead of relying on right-wing, cold-war images—which were wrong then and are ridiculously wrong now. Come on conservatives—this is the 21st century, not the 60’s. Speaking of having a parochial and twisted view of reality.

    You like to draw attention to how many people have been killed by Communist regimes—but never look at the number of innocent people killed as a result of American power. Conservatively, 12 million native Americans killed during US progress. (http://www.iearn.org/hgp/aeti/aeti-1997/native-americans); about 3 million Vietnamese killed, and another million displaced during Vietnam War, in the pursuit of containment of Communism. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War_casualties); around 1 million casualties, and close to 2 million displaced in our war based on oil and power in Iraq. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War); and no telling how many Afghan civilians have met similar ends in our present war there for pipeline real estate and influence.

    Dictators have killed innocent people for purposes of their own. We have done the same thing under the patriotic guise of war and nationalism. Now before someone gives me the “love it or leave it” choice, I bought my ticket to talk this way. Unlike so many conservatives who have not served in war, but so freely talk about going to war—as long as the don’t have to go—I proudly served this country as a Marine.

    • @tadcf Yeah. Those are lies, and you are a liar. SImple.

    • @tadcf Unlike so many conservatives who have not served in war, but so freely talk about going to war—as long as the don’t have to go—I proudly served this country as a Marine.>>>>>>>> I’m gonna call you a liar on that one. Sorry, but none of the many people I served I know have ever spoken that way about the people you signed up to serve. But I do love the irony of you playing the moral authority card to try to quell differing opinions. You generally try to play some card to shut people up once per discussion – remember, the “you can’t speak if you don’t know the scientific method” comment? You’re a petty authoritarian, and you continue to prove it.

      • @The Shark I’m supposed to feel bad he thinks the US ran around committing genocide, presumably solely at the behest of American conservatives (code for Republicans?). Yet I’m supposed to respect his proud service in a force that he told me committed those the genocides on behalf of the United States. No proudly flucked up contradiction there, huh?

      • @The Shark I’m supposed to feel bad he thinks the US ran around committing genocide, presumably solely at the behest of American conservatives (code for Republicans?). Yet I’m supposed to finish my cup of STFU and respect his proud service in a force that he told me committed the genocides on behalf of the United States. No proudly flucked up contradiction there, huh? Good live demo in Billy’s point, however.

      • @The Shark I’m supposed to feel bad he thinks the US ran around committing genocide, presumably solely at the behest of American conservatives (code for Republicans?). Yet I’m supposed to finish my cup of STFU and respect his proud service in a force that he told me committed the genocides on behalf of the United States. No proudly flucked up contradiction there, huh? Good live demo in Billy’s point, however.

    • @tadcf “It’s so arrogant to think people ignorant because they don’t believe the same right-wing position as you.” now run that back through your parser and change the relevant word from right to left Sparky.
      =====================================================================
      Proudly? Proudly? That whole paragraph sounds proud there lunch box, real proud. Real credit to the Corp.

    • And weren’t you the guy who back in 2010 before the last election claimed that Obama had REDUCED the national debt by 8%? Seriously? Well, you’d better come up with a much improved “Important Announcement” before the November election of this year, the last one didn’t hold back the wicked, evil Republican tide, and your buddy Baracka, if Allah wills, will be headed home to Chicago to enjoy his retirement and his outstanding record as being worse for the country than Jimmy Carter.

    • @tadcf @tadcf “It’s so arrogant to think people ignorant because they don’t believe the same right-wing position as you.” now run that back through your parser and change the relevant word from right to left Sparky. ===================================================================== Proudly? Proudly? That whole paragraph sounds proud there lunch box, real proud. Real credit to the Corps.

    • @tadcf Let’s see what standard lefty tropes we have here. Ya got your inflated number for Native Americans killed (http://hnn.us/articles/7302.html), which leads to a garden variety moral equivalence argument, just like the Soviets were so fond of (http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Moral_equivalence). Ya got your ducking all the main points presented about the Communists and their useful idiots, the blonde fool praising Castro’s Cuba, the housing debacle, the leftist/Democrat control of major cities in crisis… Yeah, a pretty good example of the phenomenon I described. Namely, sheer delusion plus arrogant presumption of moral superiority. Thanks, pal. I had hoped one of our usual suspects would show up and demonstrate my point, and you came through swimmingly.

      • @Billy Hollis As I see it the number of Native Americans killed is not really relevant. Is there anyone around here who ever denied they were killed or that the killing was justified? How many communist fellow-travellers that knew *at the time of the killings* in the Soviet Union or Maoist China ever lost faith in the cause? I know there were a few who did, but how many who knew, or must have later known, what happened to the citizens of those places just blithely ignore it now? The woman in this video is clearly one example. Our dear friend @tadcf chooses the other path of either equating war with murdering your own citizens or historical acts which are not morally comparable to people living today. The question is… why do they feel the need to defend the indefensible?

        • @DocD We ‘defend’ the killing of Native Americans by not tearing down the evolved country where it occurred. He thinks since he wants to tear it down and put up some marxist unicorn pony shit hole in it’s place, that that makes him better and we should skulk back to our conservative caves and let him get on with the destruction and salvation of his ‘America’.

        • @DocD Yeah, that’s a better way to look at it. The Native American population decline is complicated – newly imported diseases, for example, played a pretty big part. And the culture of 200 years ago played a role. “All men are created equal” was a radical idea, and much of the world (including many in the US) at that time considered non-white races subhuman. The most violent war ever fought on this continent was needed to end that. But Mao was killing close to 100,000,000 people only about sixty years ago, well into the modern era. Plenty of people are still alive today who supported Mao, just as idiots support Che and Castro even today. They learned nothing from the history of communism, still “defend the indefensible” as you say, and still refuse to understand the lessons of the failures and tragedies of collectivist thinking. They really do suffer various degrees of “it’s a great concept if the right people are in charge”. I’ve long thought that their reluctance to seriously examine the failures and crimes of communism stem at least partially from their fear of examining collectivist philosophy in general, and finding what they’ve lived by their own life to be flawed.

        • @DocD The reality of most Indian warfare in the US was that it was usually started by Indian attacks on settlements. The underlying reality is that unless the British or US government used force to prevent settlement, settlement was going to happen, and then settlers would be slaughtered by the natives and then war would result. The English/US did not really engage in conquest or mass murder, and the English and US governments both acted to prevent conflict without success.

          This recent book provides good coverage of the Comanches:

          http://www.amazon.com/Empire-Summer-Moon-Comanches-Powerful/dp/1416591052#reader_1416591052

          The US government usually tried to hard to make peace, when a hard nose policy of fighting the Indians would likely have been better. The violence in the West lasted way longer then it should have, and Washington DC’s “evenhanded” policies played a big part in that.

        • @Don S Even if we assume for the sake of argument that the actual number was somewhere between your numbers and his numbers (as a compromise to him…) you can be sure you’re wasting your time. There’s only one side to his version and the natives were peace loving flower children (rather than, say, at least one of the native cultures that built an empire by conquest and was fond of cutting out hearts and, unfortunately for them, encountered an equally ruthless higher tech empire building culture represented by Cortez..)

    • @tadcf Oh, and while I’m at it: “Like the article upon which I’m commenting today, conservatives think every liberal supports Cuba and other communist countries.” First, the article does not say *every* liberal. You put words in people’s mouth a lot to build up a strawman to respond to, and I’ve noticed this trait with liberals and leftists a lot. Second, here is a nice list of leftists who do in fact support Cuba, including a lot of names you probably recognize: http://www.qando.net/?p=9415. Clearly, there are plenty of them out there. So, Skippy, have you ever tried to convince them that they’re loons for feeling that way about Castro’s Cuba? I’d wager not. So your “not every liberal” point doesn’t mean much if you’re comfortable enough with your fellow travelers that you don’t push back on them.

      • And I guess I should mention that I’ve done research trying to find prominent leftists who recanted their praise of the Soviet Union after it fell. It’s a very short list. As opposed to a very long list that just stopped talking about the Soviets, and apparently decided to pretend they had never praised them. Would you care to challenge that assertion with some research of your own?

    • @tadcf You bought your ticket in the service of the American killing machine then? I guess what I read in the non-US press is true then, the American armed forces are composed of drugged-up psychopathic baby-murderers. I was sceptical of such things before but since you pretty much confirm it I guess I’ll have to just believe. The drugged-up part would at least explain your cognitive dissonance

    • @tadcf “The main problem with this situation, as I see it, is it keeps much criticizm of McCain at arm’s length, for fear of retalitory statements–as we’ve seen–that suggest anti-patriotism as the consequence, (I think this is especially true in the case of those issued by Obama). It’s sort of like constantly treading on eggshells. It also gives people the impression that his wartime and peacetime experience gives him some expertise in the conduct of war.”
      ===============================================================================================
      Sound familiar to you, GI “Don’t call me unpatriotic I was a marine too” Joe?

    • @tadcf To address one point, if this:

      http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/2947274uid=3739560&uid=2129&uid=2&uid=70&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=56114057513

      correct the total North American indian population ranged from somewhere between 1 M to 12 M in 1492. So you are starting with the LARGE estimate — in 1492.

      A large portion of the East coast American Indians, one of the most populas parts of North Ameria, were wiped out by disease brought by accident by the Spanish long before the English settled in Jamestown in 1607.

      The reality of the English (and later US) settlement of North America is that it wasn’t conquest in any classical sense. Settlers generally avoided Indians, and the eventual warfare was usually brought about by Indian deprevations. Even in Jamestown, the violence was really started by a surpries attack by the Indians in 1622, an effort as exterminating the settlers that failed and backfired when the English responded with total war.

    • @tadcf ” You conservative have to get around more and find out how we really think, instead of relying on right-wing, cold-war images…”—————-You have inspired me. I am coming out of my isolated cave and shall not stereotype those who diagree with me anymore. Just like you.—” and another million displaced during Vietnam War”———I assume you are speaking of the million who fled to the US after 1975, not to mention the tens of thousands more who wound up in Europe, etc. or died trying to escape the ‘agrarian reformers’ and ‘Vietnamese nationalists’ who took over.—“I proudly served this country as a Marine.”—————I doubt it. How could you possibly proudly serve a nation who has done all the evil things you claim? I certainly couldn’t. If you did, then you are as contemptible as the Nazis who proudly served their country.