Free Markets, Free People

So how’s that ‘Arab Spring’ working out for you?

To paraphrase Jazz Shaw of HotAir, if anyone is wondering why intervention in Syria would be a mistake for us, what happened to our Ambassador in Libya should answer any questions in that regard.

In both Libya and Egypt, unless you just refuse to see it, the future is pretty apparent.

Oh, there will be the usual “regret” from both governments and promises of justice, but the deeds are done and we all know how the promises will turn out.

If foreign relations is Obama’s strong point, I’d hate to see his weak point.

Oh, wait … we’re living that, aren’t we?


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71 Responses to So how’s that ‘Arab Spring’ working out for you?

  • Pish tosh old boy!  Good and Necessary! Watch and Learn!
    I’m sure the lads will get to Khartoum before anything untoward can happen to Gordon.

    • Come on now, don’t you want to be lectured at by the smartest man on the Internet about how we just can’t appreciate how wonderful it will all be in the end? Oh, and with a side-helping of butchered statistics concepts to assure you of how smart he is?

    • so the marines are going top Tripoli again? BTW to late for General Gordon or Ambassador Stevens. If the Moslems are not at your feet they are at your throat.  kill them all and let god sort it out

  • Can anyone recall Erp being right about any FLUCKING thing?

    • Given his track record, anyone supporting Romney should have been quite relieved that he came by yesterday telling us how much trouble Romney was in.

    • Sorry, and it’s painful to admit, but yes. Then again, stopped clock and all that. It has also made me a believer in that old saw about the typing monkeys.

  • And where’s Cap Stuffed Turkey to tell us about the unbiased media, where the New York Times, paper of record, considers “Dissecting Romney’s Vietnam Stance at Stanford” to be more important than the death of THE US AMBASSADOR IN LIBYA (You’d think someone might have noticed an ambassador killed by Libyans, but the Times figured that could run on page 4 cause important Romney stuff took up the space on page 1)
    (Page 1, New York Times….September 12th, 2012)
    Well, shit, if you put it on page one, it might make the Light Worker look bad.  But there’s Romney, on page one, because we’re worried about his Vietnam stance from 40 years ago.
    Someone get the Modle-t crank, the gramophone crank won’t do, we got some serious spinnin to do today.

    • Does it sound like I’m whining, because I expect THE major US News Paper, recognized world wide (even in Dallas) to cover the killing of a US Ambassador instead of covering Mitt Romney’s college view on Vietnam?   Can someone tell me?  Is it reasonable of me to want them to cover that story, or is it just me being partisan and thinking they have a bias when they don’t?

      • No, no.  To quote Erp from yesterday’s tour d’stupid

        …seems like a kind of paranoid fantasy…

        You are just stuck in the fallacy of categorizing.  You know, like “real reporting” vs. “propaganda”.

        • “You are just stuck in the fallacy of categorizing. ”
          Ah, you mean I’m stuck in the 20th century paradigm my parents dumped on me of evaluating actions and determining some to be right and some to be wrong instead of realizing no actions are really wrong.  That all actions are correct depending on cultural perception and by judging some to be right and some to be wrong I’m imposing an ethnic European white racist standard on reality and infringing on the sensibilities of other cultures and forcing them into my white Eurocentric imperialistic male gender dominated social construct?

          • Yeah.  Like that…
            “Two legs good; four legs bad”.  Pluralism good; cut off your head for being Jewish, bad.
            The fallacy of categorization, we are told.  By a moron.  With a broken moral compass.

          • Master, I am confused, I thought “cut off your head for being Jewish” was good.  Oh, wait, I see what I’ve done I think.  If I hadn’t imposed a “good”, “bad” thing on that I wouldn’t be in this mess would I master.  When you said “bad” were you using a Eurocentric right/wrong paradigm for that statement, or was it just a rhetorical contrary proposition to “pluralism good” for the purposes of instruction?  Lately there are a lot of indications that, for example “insulting Islam, the religion” is bad, but “insulting Judeao-Christian belief” was acceptable, and that “insulting Islam is bad” but “killing Jews” is good.
            I hope you see my confusion master.

  • What would you have:  The US keeping control of every country in the world—instead of determining their own destiny?

    • I would have, alleged, and by that statement demonstrated FORMER Marine, our Ambassadors not killed and dragged barbarically through the streets in a way that would lead to your arrest here if you did it to a dog.
      That’s hardly the same as wanting to control the world you blithering idiot.

    • How about we say “piss off” the next time some Muslim rebel group begs for our help?  If they want to live like it’s still the 7th century, fine.  Just do it over in their pissant corner of the world without us.  Works for me.  Let’s drill our own oil, buy more from friendly countries like Canada (can you say “Keystone”?) and tell the whole Middle East to piss off. 

    • By the way, two of the OTHER three dead Americans – are Marines.  In case you missed that in your rush to condemn our thirst for world domination.

    • Plenty of ways to make them control themselves dude. Economics, or alliance, friendship, cultural dominance, respect…..or fear. Those last 2 (especially the last one) have been missing from our quiver for awhile. And those two are the only ones that have any impact in that part of the world

      • They did this kind of crap about 200 years ago too as I recall.  Funny, I guess we didn’t learn from that first adventure.
        “To the shores of Tripoli”

    • As much as I want to blame Obama, I think the only thing wrong he did was attempt to ride the wave of the Arab Spring when we should have simply stayed very far on shore instead. I don’t think our support changed a thing. Oh, sure, we could have supported Mubarak who is like 80 and then we’d have this problem later when he died.
      Its tricky because we also want to support democracy and its easy for uninformed Americans (a group that includes some political scientists apparently) to associate protest with democracy, whereas its more “anti-regime protests” than any belief in freedom, etc.
      And one also has to note that when Qadaffi was calling the rebels Al Qaeda and people poo-poohed that, there actually was a serious grain of truth to that claim.

      • What we did wrong was presume that anything we did would in fact make one side our friends.   Short of knowing exactly who we were dealing with, and I’ll reveal my 20th century archaic imperialistic tendencies by saying ‘and chances are someone WE put in place to take over’ we should have stayed very far away and, like Syria, let them fight it out.
        There was no side, except in a fantasy, that was going to come out of that with what the US would have considered a democracy, and entirely probable that true democratic reformers were going to end up being rounded up by either winning side, and done away with as ‘rebels’ or as competition for the new government leaders.

        • Yep, that’s what I meant by “riding the wave.”
          Though I have a soft spot in my heart for Gen. Dostum, the Afghan warlord who switched sides many times, liked to drink, and was not an Islamist per se.

          • Oh, I believe he also was the guy, who when he heard we were going to invade Iraq, immediately asked how many men we would need and was ready to go in with us. I wonder if there is a biography of his life. It will probably have some more chapters to write.

          • There is something comforting about naked opportunists like him in times like these.

          • “There is something comforting about naked opportunists like him in times like these.”

            A little openness (tranparency) and honesty go a long way. Like the definition of an honest politician; one who stays bought. 

    • In the case of Libya, we should have allowed Daffy to stay in control. He had already stopped his nuke program, when he saw what Dubya did with Saddam. And he was in fact fighting the same enemy we were.

      In Egypt we should have attempted to steer a course that would have kept the MB locked out. Given our financial aid I suspect that it would have been possible, had we had decent leadership.

      Would all of this likely fail eventually? Yes, but we should also be working to mitigate that. It is clear that the ME has been following a regressive trajectory culturally, and solid American leadership is needed to sort out a solution, which in some countries involves simply stalling. Does anyone want to see the countries like SA follow? Right now?

    • Oh, my!! Those of the logical and reasonable left.
      110% cluless:

  • “I ask myself, how could this happen? How could this happen in a country we helped liberate, in a city we helped save from destruction?” Clinton said. “This question reflects just how complicated and, at times, how confounding the world can be.”

    Smart Power, indeed.

  • I feel bad for the Libyans and Egyptians who aren’t crazed Islamic fringe types and have to pay the price for these idiots.
    Libya especially, because they just had our assistance in liberation.

    • Also, now we know why these places ban Youtube. Their citizens need protection from this stuff. God forbid they ever access Youtube comments – then it will be all out war. “We demand the commenter retract their comment about the Prophet and my mother and be tried by your religious police or we shall begin the deadly riots!”

  • The Times can’t be bothered to report on it but suddenly it’s such an important event that Romney is being excoriated- by the palace guard press- for politics while Americans died.
    Disgusting display

    • I bet Jimmah Carrrhter is green with envy today, watching the Mushroom Media doing such effective triage.
      “If only…”

      • If we had today’s press in 1980, by election day, a lot of people would be so confused they wouldn’t know who the GOP candidate was: Reagan or his costar in Bedtime for Bonzo.

        • While we find out that Obama – routinely skipping his intel briefings – didn’t bother to attend one in the week prior to this, didn’t strengthen our embassies, left people to die.

          But that’s small potatos compared to what EVIL Romney did!!!

        • I wonder how many intel briefings Pres. Empty Chair skipped in the last 10 days?

        • gee Billy the press was just as bad or worse back then. Plus we had no alternative media.

          • I don’t think they were as bad then. They were probably just as monolithic in their political preferences, but outside the “women and children most affected” NYT, they at least felt they were supposed to hide it. There was indeed bias – just ask Dan Quayle – but they didn’t cover up for Carter the way they’re covering for Obama now. 

            Plus there were publications back in the 1980s, such as the Economist, which leaned libertarian at times. The Economist is now center left (befitting their British readership, I guess), and even the WSJ has shown a leftward drift in their news reporting.

  • PS- It’s such a TERRIBLE event that politics must stop…………..except Obama is going to Vegas to campaign.  Oopsie

  • We came, we saw, he died.
    Hill-larry Clinton, Smart Power(tm) maven, on GaDaffy’s demise.

  • “Chris Stevens, the U.S. ambassador to Libya killed along with three others in a rocket attack outside the American Consulate in Benghazi—ignited by protesters angry over a film

    The media is trying to make it out like this attack was part of a spontaneous protest.
    It was not. It was planned. You don’t just go attack an embassy and catch the staff at their safe house.
    One of our staff said he saw a Libyan security guard taking photos.

    Seriously, sloppy journalism with the use of that verb “ignite” which implies causation.

    • “Libyan security personnel fought back against the attackers alongside Americans. Libyans helped some of our diplomats find safety, and they carried Ambassador Stevens’s body to the hospital, where we tragically learned that he had died. ”   President M. T. Chair
      The photos of the Libyans carrying his body ‘to the hospital’ certainly show their caring don’t you think?  And there are reports the attack was actually coordinated, and that the security staff told the heavily armed but spontaneous ‘protestors’ where the Americans were taking cover.
      Didn’t Romney tie his dog to the top of his car?

      • From what I have seen of Palestinians being taken to the hospital, the way they carried him is about the same. I’m not sure he was really being manhandled. I’m going to google though because I have seen only 2 photos.

  • On Tuesday, Sean Smith, a Foreign Service Information Management Officer assigned to the American consulate in Benghazi, Libya, typed a message to the director of his online gaming guild: ”Assuming we don’t die tonight. We saw one of our ‘police’ that guard the compound taking pictures.” The consulate was under siege, and within hours, a mob would attack, killing Smith along with three others, including the U.S. ambassador.

    Not vouching for that, just reporting.

  • There seem to be fingerprints all over this pointing to the perp.
    I think maybe his name is Al something….

  • WOuld be nice if the press would coordinate to ask Obama why he didn’t go to his intel briefings……

  • Well, we found out how a three o’clock phone call gets handled by both Hillary and Barack – we apologize for whatever it was that someone imagines we did that made someone kill our citizens.
    Talk about days that live in Infamy.

    • “Well, we found out how a three o’clock phone call gets handled by both Hillary and Barack – we apologize for whatever it was that someone imagines we did that made someone kill our citizens.”

      Actually, since Obama did NOTHING of the kind, we learn more about how Romney would handle the 3 AM call, he’d take inaccurate information and immediately act on it, taking the country down whatever mistaken path he finds himself.

      Fortunately, in this case, Romney just took Romney down an idiotic path, and accused the President of making the statement that the Embassy made, and accusing the President of making that statement in response to the attacks, when in fact the statement was made BEFORE the attacks in an attempt to clarify the US position, that the United States values religious tolerance and rejects the position of the filmmakers. The Embassy itself was castigated for these statements before the attacks, and they basically said they were trying to stay alive.

      But hey, even thought Romney made this massive foreign policy bungle, politicizing it in the first place immediately after Americans were attacked and murdered, and then getting it wrong.

      This may have been the moment that Romney lost this election.

      • I bet you think Obama’s farts smell marvelous too.
        Seriously, dude.
        Obama’s the guy who flew to Cairo to make a speech and he’s the one who tossed Mubarak under the bus.
        Those tweets made by the Embassy were not “trying to stay alive.” Tweets won’t help you when a mob storms your building. The Islamists aren’t reading your stupid tweets and you should be “bargaining away American values” for your skin unless there really is a literal gun to your head.
        p.s. if you blamed Bush for any of the poor planning in Iraq, then you have to blame Obama for the Benghazi security.

        • Now Obama tells us that Egypt is not an ally. That’s a huge statement that needs about a week of unpacking.
          Are we still helping them produce the Abrams tanks, seeing as they are no longer an ally?

      • you might want to get some jimmies to sprinkle on the Obama crap sundae you’re eating, maybe some whip topping too.
        I know, I know, it’s Romney’s fault for talking about it, or Bush’s fault.   You go ahead and think we should apologize for this kind of thing to calm down people who spend their day looking for things to be offended by.  Our mere existence offends them, you fool.
        Hey, Maybe the Mormons can threaten us all and we’ll elect Romney to appease them.  That would be okay with you right?  You’ve already demonstrated it would, now go the next step and say it.
        What a massive, cognitively dissonant fraud you are Cap.

      • “This may have been the moment that Romney lost this election.”
        Well, it’s certainly the moment when Captain Sarcastic jumped the shark for Barack Obama.

        • No, he has been in the tank all along. Erp and Snark are the same sort of animal, emulating resaonable thinking from time to time but really in the tank for leftist idiocy.

      • Yep.  Moonbattery talking point spouting moron.

      • It’s okay Cap, we should be worried about what Mitt Romney said, not what the President and Secretary of State DID over the last week when there were intelligence reports that something was brewing.
        Besides, who could EVER imagine that on September 11th there MIGHT be some kind of terrorist thingamabob in a Muslim country?  I mean, shoot, it’s a Tuesday for heaven sakes!  It’s just another day in September!  You’d have to think there was something special about that day to make preparations for any kind of activity, right?  How could anyone have ever known a spontaneous protest by rocket and machine gun armed men would ever break out!   You’d have to have some kind of world wide intelligence apparatus in place, or, I don’t know, know that you might have to try and get the Americans all in one place under American control where you could reasonably expect to guard them.  You’d almost, like, have to have a plan in place or something for what was just another Tuesday in any old week of any old month.  Who could ever have anticipated such a thing!

      • And DAMN that Romney for politicizing such an event!
        Who would do such a thing!

      • Capt Snark,

        Obama owns it. It was his diplomatic staff that made the statement then repeated it. And Obama didn’t say anything about it until Romney called him on it.

        Either Obama is an incompetent leader, or his worldview is backwards. Romney called it right.

  • Attacks themselves pg A4. Romneys response pg 1

  • Cap-
    If Romney was so wrong why did Obama and State essentially agree with him?