Free Markets, Free People

I’m pretty sure this is illegal

A tour group to Yellowstone Park was in the midst of their tour when the government shutdown occurred. Apparently, there was some nastiness. They were sent to the Old Faithful Inn at Yellowstone, and, as near as I can tell, illegally imprisoned.

The seniors quickly filed back onboard and the bus went to the Old Faithful Inn, the park’s premier lodge located adjacent to the park’s most famous site, Old Faithful geyser. That was as close as they could get to the famous site — barricades were erected around Old Faithful, and the seniors were locked inside the hotel, where armed rangers stayed at the door.

“They looked like Hulk Hogans, armed. They told us you can’t go outside,” she said. “Some of the Asians who were on the tour said, ‘Oh my God, are we under arrest?’ They felt like they were criminals.”

Well, they certainly seem to have been treated like criminals. They were lawfully present in the Park when the Park Service closed it, they were rounded up and sent to a park facility where they were required to remain indoors under armed guard, for two days. I’m no lawyer, but I’m pretty sure that constitutes a case of false imprisonment, to wit, the “illegal confinement of one individual against his or her will by another individual in such a manner as to violate the confined individual’s right to be free from restraint of movement.” If so, since the Park Rangers were acting in their official capacity, this should also constitute the crime of violating civil rights under the color of authority. I suspect that if I had been in that group, I would be in jail right now for openly defying the Park Rangers.

If these people don’t launch a massive lawsuit against the government, then they’re fools.

Frankly, I’m beginning to suspect the Second Amendment has some other purpose than protecting our right to hunt.


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50 Responses to I’m pretty sure this is illegal

  • The Second protects our right to hunt varmints!

    • And fire shotguns into the air while yelling vague nonthreatening warnings in a legally non-actionable way at people who might be threatening to uninvitedly enter our castles!

  • Frankly I’m a little concerned.  I heard the other day that most Americans have never heard of Ted Cruz.  Now, I don’t expect that all Americans are listening all the time but really.  The signature battle of our day and most Americans are tuning it out?
     
    And another thing:  Some situations just cry out for civil disobedience.  If big bad cops lock me in my hotel room my answer is “no.”  We may end up in front of a judge.  I’m good with that.  Let’s lay our cards out and see what we’ve got.  Does the big bad cop want to make it bloody?  Okay.  Concord was bloody too.
     
    Simply put, there has been nothing in my five decades of self awareness that has so infuriated me as the images of our good citizens being treated as serfs on their own land.  I don’t give a damn who’s government shutdown this is; NO ONE has the right to treat Americans as our own government is now treating us.  This is beyond George the Third stuff; where can I sign up to be a Minuet Man?

    • AWRM.org
      Sure many there are feds and they may even run on federal servers.
       
      With the NSA around, so what?  You’re already on a list.
       
      Keep it legal, learn what you can, there’s wheat in the chaff.

    • I heard the other day that most Americans have never heard of Ted Cruz.

      I’m sure they know who Madonna, is, who Miley Cyrus is, who a second string NBA or NFL player is. Americans have their priorities, and those will lead them straight to a fascistic hell!
      To paraphrase Dale, they NEED to get it GOOD & HARD!

  • Well, the militarized police are the standing army the Founding Fathers warned us about.
    *Disclaimer – My father is a cop, I’d love to be an aux. police officer, and I generally have nothing but respect for police, but we’re getting to the point where it’s an Us v. Them situation mixed in with “I was only following orders” and this is NOT going to end well.

    • No, we’re passed that point.
      When the domestic ‘war’ on ‘crime’ literally starts using weapons common to a war, like armored fighting vehicles….there’s a serious problem.
      When there’s no obvious accountability for botched operations and dead and wounded innocent civilians (or their pets) ….there’s a serious problem.
      When the police think they can run roughshod over various rights from the Bill of Fights in the name of personal protection and law enforcement, there’s a serious problem.
      This ‘the judge will sort it out’ mentality is just shy of “neca eos omnes, deus suos agnoscet,”.  

       
      And worst of all The state can use money they took from you in taxes and fees to bankrupt you while you go about proving they were in the wrong in order to preserve their right to do what they want when they want and explain later,  maybe.
       

  • Not an area of my practice, and I have not investigated these glaring misuses of Federal power, BUT…
    I DO think that there will be a series of lawsuits coming out of this debacle, and some will be filed by the states.
    It WILL lead to a movement to return a LOT of Federal lands (not just the parks) to the states, as the Constitution always intended.

    • Or a few park rangers can just be defenstrated into those SUVs they used to block the view of old faithful, and that might go a looooooooooooooooooooooong way towards solving the problem.
       

  • The militia groups are actively warning that Obama is looking for somebody to trigger  a confrontation where Obama can bring in a large force (I guess it’s the purpose of all the ammunition DHS has been buying).

    • Concur 110%.

    • The administration is buying ammunition to disrupt normal gun use.  You can’t find ammo to teach your kid to shoot, that breaks any family tradition and maybe one less gun owner.  Or, if people can’t afford it for hunting and recreation, they stop using their guns and sell them.  Or, if manufacturers step up and meet both government and public demand, the government stops buying, ammunition manufacturers start going out of business from over capacity.

  • Interior Secretary Sally Jewell said the government will consider offers to use state money to resume park operations, but will not surrender control of national parks or monuments to the states. Jewell called on Congress to act swiftly to end the government shutdown so all parks can reopen.
    Utah Gov. Gary Herbert said his state would accept the federal offer to reopen Utah’s five national parks.
    Utah would have to use its own money to staff the parks, and it will cost $50,000 a day to operate just one of them, Zion National Park, said Herbert’s deputy chief of staff, Ally Isom.
    Interior Department spokesman Blake Androff said the government does not plan to reimburse states that pay to reopen parks. Costs could run into the millions of dollars, depending on how long the shutdown lasts and how many parks reopen. Congress could authorize reimbursements once the shutdown ends, although it was not clear whether that will happen.

  • See: Cloward-Pivin

  • Frankly, I’m beginning to suspect the Second Amendment has some other purpose than protecting our right to hunt

    >>> What second ammendment?

  • Uh, this isn’t Obama’s doing – it’s the House Republicans.  If they passed a Continuing Resolution without trying to delay Obamacare, none of this would have happened.  That’s why shutting down the government is stupid.  Mid level bureaucrats with no clue of how to do this are making their own judgments, probably in foul moods because most of them knew they were likely to be furloughed – or overworked because they’re one of the few who were not.  This shutdown is owned by the GOP, and they can’t try to blame Obama.

    • NO SCOTT  you are either ignorant or lying.
       
      The NPS is controlled by the White House, NOT the Congress.   So when you blame Congress for the NPS being bastards about what they do and do not close, and how they enforce those closures (which, by the way are being done for the first time despite previous shutdowns that left them OPEN) you are either ignorant (again) of how your government functions, or you are LYING.
       
      You take your pick on which it is.   The ignorance is inexcusable because it has been discussed now for 2 weeks that the White House controls the NPS, NOT Congress.
       

    • Democrat Tool.

    • And ONE MORE TIME….because you do so well in avoiding the question…
       
      Where is the mandated BUDGET!
      Why are we using Continuing Resolutions to fund our government?

    • Another total admission of being a pure Collectivist tool.
      My gawd, you are such a bung-sucker for the power-elite.

    • …this isn’t Obama’s doing – it’s the House Republicans….

      Do you wear a short skirt when you wave your pop-poms for your team like that?
      More partisan propaganda from the guy who pretends he just does objective analysis.  Why don’t you spend your time commenting over at Kos or Democratic Underground?

    • Furloughed – you mean, made to take vacation while you wait for you back pay to come in?

    • Hey, Erp, you ARE aware, are you not, that there is now a direct link between the IRS and the White House WRT the IRS thuggery…???
       
      Still no…???
       
      What a moron.

      • Hey!  there’s every reason in the world why the White House should be looking at….individual…tax….retu,,,,,,
         
         
        RACISTS!!!!!!

    • So, if the Republicans gave the Democrats everything the Democrats want, there wouldn’t be a shutdown.  How insightful!
      The truth is, the Republicans offered several continuing resolutions, all of which were rejected by the Senate.  The Republicans offered several time to negotiate, all of which were rejected by Democrats.
      How about this:  if the Senate Democrats and the President had been willing to compromise on an unpopular aspect of a questionable law, then there wouldn’t have been a shutdown.

    • In other words if we gave the spoiled child everything he wanted.
       
      The Congress is in the hands of the Republicans now in part because of Obamacare.  Obama should respect that.

      • If anything…ever…showed his utter contempt for the people and the laws of the United States, the SpiteHouse antics of the government-by-malice shut-down (of about 13% of the government) MUST.
        If the shut-down did NOTHING else but illuminate that, it has been wonderfully successful.

    • Wake up.  Only a f–in a-hole would still believe that.
      Please only come back when you have a “new idea”

    • Nice dodge, Skippy.  Even if one accepted what you claim about where the fault lies for the shutdown, that doesn’t address what Dale posted about:  possibly illegal tactics being employed by Federal civil servants and law enforcement officials thanks apparently to orders from above.  The Republicans have nothing to do with that while Obama does.

    • If Obama had an actual budget the continuing resolution wouldn’t be an issue. 

  • “While much of the federal government is closed, the parks and other federal lands are drawing an extreme amount of scrutiny — possibly because the Obama administration has decided to close down areas that remained open during previous shutdowns.”
    “Nancy Pelosi of California, who followed defended the president, thanking him for making an exception to the shutdown and “enabling us to gather here.”
     
    Pelosi is acknowledging WHO is making an exception and WHO is controlling the access to the National Mall, which is operated by NPS.
     
    here’s the link. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/oct/8/nps-accused-gestapo-tactics-enforce-shutdown/
     
    So, take your propaganda elsewhere.

  • The initial refusal to pay benefits, however, was wholly consistent with the tactics used by the administration throughout its budget battle with members of Congress who want to pull the plug on Obamacare. From its unnecessary lockdown of the World War II Memorial in the nation’s capital to its efforts to limit access to national treasures like Mount Rushmore and Yellowstone Park, the executive branch has set out to try to inflict as much pain as possible on the American people so they will pressure Congress to give the president what he wants to end the government shutdown.
    The administration seems committed to pursuing its “maximum pain” strategy as long as it’s politically tenable. At the Thursday White House press conference, Jay Carney still was arguing against the death-benefits relief bill, saying it was “not necessary” for the president to sign the bill since the Fisher House — a private charity — had stepped up with an offer to pay the benefit.
    President Obama obviously changed his mind late Thursday as the public-relations damage from his stance continued to mount. But will signing a bill that should never have been needed get the president off the hook?
    —TheCorner
     
    See, Erp.  Nobody is fooled here, unless they…like you…volunteer to be fools.

  • If this one isolated case of the NPS doing this, then it could be a rogue manager.
    But its far more than that. Going after the Cliff House in SF, a restaurant that pays an annual fee?
    Dumb. That’s a revenue stream. Its already been paid. There is no reason to close it, except for spite.

    • I keep telling you, low level interns in the White House and front line individuals in National Park Service office in Cincinnati are responsible for this.
      And they’ve been disciplined!  And fired! and releaved of duty!  and banished and furloughed!  and transferred!  and promoted!

  • http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2013/10/from-the-vietnam-memorial.php
    “At the Vietnam Memorial two park ranger goons stood at the entrance to the wall, near the requisite barricades. The intention clearly was to intimidate people from entering the memorial area. Fortunately, many people simply ignored Barry’s Brownshirts and walked down to the wall. My wife Thuy, who was born in Vietnam, accompanied me (photo above left).
    These people in DC are dangerous, and we the people need to stand up to these attempts to intimidate and abuse us.”
    A beeee-u-TEA-ful seniment…
    and one shared by any of us who will not be slaves to their bloated, corrupt government.

  • But again, cynicism and disgust seem entirely appropriate responses. Ronald Reagan was the last president who had a basic skepticism of Big Government, but Barack Obama may end up having done more than any of his predecessors to promote that feeling among the public.
    —Taranto at the WSJ

    Well, yeah.  We know already he is teh WON when it comes to boosting gun sales and NRA membership.

    AND he can claim a LOT of credit for the TEA party movement!
     

    • And this ties into why I did not vote for either McCain or Romney. To have a ghost of a chance of averting the coming debt-driven meltdown, there is one thing we need more than anything else – clarity.
       
      Obama’s pom-pom waving acolytes in the media (and academia) will try to deflect any criticism or blame for anything he or the Democrats do, and amplify the blame for anything the Republicans do. But their credibility, and their business model, are taking blows that will not heal. Anyone who isn’t a committed ideologue for the left is seeing the raw results of collectivism.
       
      We know collectivism is a failure in a practical sense (404Care). We know is a failure in the political sense (refusal to yield an inch in growth of government power during budget non-negotiations). We know it is a failure at keeping the bureaucracy non-political, which was the goal when the spoils system was eliminated (IRS, Fast and Furious, National Park Service, etc.)  We know it is a failure at foreign affairs (Benghazi, Syria, Russia, etc.).
       
      If the establishment GOP were in power, as they were during Bush’s years, we would still be seeing growth of government, we would still have a government of politicized bureaucrats grabbing all the power they could manage, and there would be ongoing progress towards the meltdown resolution of the unsustainable debt and deficit spending. It would be slower, but it we would still be on that path. The inevitable disasters that serve as the tremors before the main event would have been blamed wholly on the party that is nominally in favor of less government.
       
      As in Bush’s tenure, every ill up to and including natural disasters would be laid at the GOP’s feet instead of assigning any responsibility whatsoever to collectivist Democrats. If the debt meltdown came on the GOP’s watch, the chances of coming out the other side with any sort of movement back to a sustainable free, non-collectivist society would be negligible. The Democrats clearly can’t do it, because they don’t believe in that form of society in the first place. But the GOP would be too associated with the mess to have a chance of even being given the chance.
       
      As miserably bad as Obama’s reign has been, it at least brings clarity on the results of full-bore collectivism, and that the Democrats are the ones constantly, constantly pushing for it. It also brings clarity that a large subset of the GOP, the establishment Republicans, are effectively allies of the Democrats in maintaining the collectivist state. It highlights the people fighting for a different approach. It builds a cadre of people who might – might – be able to lead us through the coming meltdown by restoring the principles of a free society.
       
      The odds are not very good, as Dale points out from time to time. But, as bad as the odds are now, it is my belief that they would be worse if the establishment GOP has been in control of the White House for the last 8 years. Economically and politically, things would not be much better than they are now, and the options for restoring the principles of a free society would be much more constrained.
       
       

  • Byron York@ByronYork
    After huge expenditures, will require massive, expensive retooling. Bottom line: Obamacare could be defunding itself.

    Exactly as predicted.
    DMV-level performance, massive spending, unprecedented intrusions into Americans’ freedoms, lies in the passage, and hidden realities only to be discovered on implementation.
    All administered by the thugs at IRS and HHS.
     

    • “All administered by the thugs at IRS and HHS.”
       
      And all controlled by thugs from Chicago.

  • At least the Jap visitors knew what to expect, what with FDR doing a similar thing during WWII.