Free Markets, Free People

Well goodie – no more debt ceiling – at least till February

In a brilliant move, the GOP has managed to not only be unable to impose the debt ceiling, it has apparently found a way to capitulate and make it temporarily unlimited:

There’s no actual debt ceiling right now.

The fiscal deal passed by Congress on Wednesday evening to re-open the government and get around the $16.4 trillion limit on borrowing doesn’t actually increase the debt limit. It just temporarily suspends enforcement of it.

That means Americans have no idea how much debt their government is going to rack up between now and February 7, when the limits are supposed to go back into place and will have to be raised.

17 days for this?

Really?

And they wonder why people call them the “stupid party”.

~McQ

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19 Responses to Well goodie – no more debt ceiling – at least till February

  • I object to this term!   I do not call them the stupid party!
     
    I call them the really ^%#@ing stupid party.
     
    And come next year they’ll have to work really ^%#@ing hard to get my vote, because at this point I see them as bigger liars than the Democrats.

    • When you keep voting for the lesser of two evils, why be so surprised when the only candidates available on the ballot are all evil?
      If you want to rework that to fit the Evil Party vs. Stupid Party trope, I’m sure the end result will be similar.
      When I did vote, the problem I had was that rational, informed voters who respect individual rights almost always vote defensively.  Get rid of Carter, Clinton, Obama, keep Mondale, Dukakis, Gore out.  And, even when the Republicans win, we mostly get the Lite version of the crap the Democrats are pushing.  That’s no way to run a country.
      If I could put aside my more basic ethical objections to the underlying tenets of the democratic process, I still wouldn’t find anyone to vote for.  Dole?  McCain?  Romney?
      Just say no.

      • Thanks for Obamacare dumbass.  Was you hard-on against Romney, worth it?

        • You’re a very confused person.
          I don’t subject your rights to the whims of the mob, putting moral matters on the auction block of public opinion.
          The adage that “if you don’t vote you don’t get to complain” is exactly backwards.  Those of us who don’t vote are the only ones who should complain.  The rest of you agreed to the outcome.  You’re just whining because your mob is smaller than their mob.
          As for your ridiculous line about Romney, you don’t know what you’re talking about.  My disdain for Obama far outweighed my disgust with the GOP for only being able to push through Romney.

  • Two things…
     
    FIRST, there is a practical debt limit.  It is just as binding as putting on a dollar figure…maybe more so, since we see how “limited” spending is with a “debt limit”.  How much as the debt changed since May?
     
    Second, McQ, can YOU name some things we got for the last 17 days?  I CAN.

  • Last night, the stories started coming out that the February vote on the debt ceiling can be vetoed by the President.
    The President has the veto card on the debt ceiling now.

  • Its actually much worse than this.

    Congress just abdicated its power of the purse.  Obama now controls when, and by how much, the debt ceiling will be raised.

    Congress then gets a vote but will need a 2/3 majority vote to stop the President.  Up until this week, then Senate needed 60 votes to hike the debt ceiling.  Now it will need 67 votes to stop a hike by the President.

    We no longer live in a Constitutional Republic.

  • We are going to have to accept if we intend to let it burn,
     
    that it’s, uh, going to burn.
     
    I realize that sounds obvious, but if you love it, it’s going to be damned hard to just stand by and watch.

    • Yes, indeed.
       
      Anyone should be able to see a Walmart stripped in hours because of a simple EBT malfunction, and extrapolate what happens nationwide when a real financial disaster occurs. Anyone should be able to look at the claims for ObamaCare – controlled costs and “if you like your healthcare you can keep it” – and see that reality is the polar opposite. They should then understand the empty promises of collectivist big government and the disaster that waits at the end of that road.
       
      They don’t want to know. They want to gossip about Miley Cyrus and various Kardashians. They want to discuss the ending of Breaking Bad. They want to watch the World Series.
       
      Honestly, I think sometimes that it’s an evolutionary adaptation. The human race has faced much worse in its past. The key to survival as a species was to spread out, have kids, and not worry about that smoke in the mountains. By far the biggest threat was other people – other groups that would pillage and kill your group.
       
      That’s why they defend their groups beyond all rationality. As long as they have allegiance to a group, they feel safe. Their only concern is that their group be big enough to defend itself and pillage other groups.
       
      America was founded to put a new form of society in place, stressing individual choice and responsibility over being a passive member of a group. However, that model requires people to understand it. That model originally had no room for authoritarians, so they made room for themselves by subverting the part of the society that communicated how it was supposed to work. Now the majority of people don’t understand the responsibilities of being a citizen in a free society, so they have relapsed into the patterns impressed into them by evolution.
       

    • How did the whole “let it burn” thing work out for the Romans?
      I mean, after letting a Caesar in, how long before they recouped?
      Did they ever recoup?
      Of course, we don’t really have a choice at some point in time.  I just WILL burn.

      • It’s entirely possible (certainly in the recent fictional versions) that some Republican Romans thought letting the Dictator (now disguised as Imperator for life) have free reign would bring people back to their Republican senses.
         
        I don’t know.   And probably it won’t come back, because we’ll never let it collapse quite far enough before history is completely re-written and they’ve managed to convince the takers that the ‘free mason slave holding evil capitalst founders’ set about trying to create a system that would allow them to hold on to power, blah blah blah blah.  Then the progressive forces of niceness and goodness will finally triumph and you should shut up and give us your labor so we can distribute that goodness to the people who keep us in power (like they used to do in Imperial Rome) and we’ll pick the winners from now on thank you very much.  For the good of the state, or the good of the planet, or something that always works out to “screw you you individual, you have no rights unless you’re part of the in-crowd”.
         
        I mean, look at Erb as a classic example.   Rights?  They’re things we vote on.  We can create them and dissolve them at will.  There’s no morality involved, it’s whatever we freakin feel like man!  Yeah! Groovy!  No more judging people, except when we feel like it dude!   Everyone is free until we tell them what they need to freakin do and they need to shut up and do it because we took a vote man!  That’s Democracy!  Yeah!
         
        I don’t even see it collapsing far enough to get people to realize and reset.   We’ll just slowly become something like a slightly less messed up old Mexico and our descendents will work to become Hacendados.   Serfs and lords, whatever.  It’ll all sound very Democratic though.
         
        Until Islam decides it’s caught it’s second wind and makes another bid for Lisbon, Vienna and Tours.

        • And probably it won’t come back, because we’ll never let it collapse quite far enough…

          Well, we must be talking about two different things.
          The collapse I’m talking about is catastrophic failure, which nobody is going to control.
          We have these…perhaps even now too late…opportunities to turn away from that, but American government has shown no ability to step up to reality.  Even though reality is recognized by pretty much all but the most delusional Collectivists.

          • I’ve considered catastrophic failure.  That’s the case where we might actually get a chance to reset.
            All bets are off there.
             
            Right now aside from an unpredictable incident of a cosmic nature, I don’t see it any time soon.
            What I do see for the next decade is a continued slow slide into stupidity.
            That’s what I meant when I said it’s going to be hard to let it burn.  I think almost everyone here who thinks it can happen is going to try and prevent it, even though we’re not in favor of what we’re preserving, because we’re all hoping we can stop the complete wreck and fix it.  We’re all going to try and function inside the deteriorating system because most of us can’t afford to walk away from it or can’t make ourselves walk away from it, for whatever reasons.

          • Yep.  “Simple humanity” being high on my list.

          • As demonstrated the other day though, it would happen fast though – 2 hours to conduct an orderly loot of the Wal-Marts.
             
             

          • In a sad, sick way, we’re going to act as the police and Wal-Mart employees and enable the looters to carry on their looting in a calm and orderly fashion.
             
             

          • I think that is the status quo now.
            What I’m talking about is a condition where there is nothing to loot, as I think Billy is alluding to.
            Richard Fernandez had a piece the other day about this at PJMedia.

  • There was a ‘deal’ made all-right and it stinks like yesterdays diapers.
    If its’ all going down the crapper anyway, may-as-well vote your conscious.
    I’m going to back the TEA Party, screw the RINOs.