Free Markets, Free People

Antarctic ice shelf “collapse” may have an effect on sea levels … in a 1,000 years

The cult of global warming, aka “alarmists”, have found a new drum on which to bang.  Scientists recently announced that the western ice shelf in Antarctica is “collapsing”.  Immediately the “Chicken Little” pronouncements of imminent doom were sounded by the usual suspects all implicitly tied to AGW.  The UK’s Guardian sounded the alarm in various headlines which read:

“Two separate studies confirm loss of ice sheet is inevitable, and will cause up to 4m of additional sea-level rise

‘Collapse will change the coastline of the whole world’

Reading on into the actual findings of the studies, however, one finds that the drama that is implicit in these headlines could have been tempered a bit with a very slight modification:

But the researchers said that even though such a rise could not be stopped, it is still several centuries off, and potentially up to 1,000 years away.

Oh.  So it isn’t a crisis that will impact the world today or anytime in the near future, correct?

This is not new stuff either. This story has been popping up since 2008. I wrote about it here and here. As noted in 2008, a fairly simple discovery, not mentioned in any of these articles, proffered an explanation of why the ocean water was warming and the ice shelf was melting.

“Scientists have just now discovered an active volcano under the Antarctic ice that “creates melt-water that lubricates the base of the ice sheet and increases the flow towards the sea”. That could include the Wilkins Ice Sheet as well (the article cited talks about the Larson A and B sheets.

But, say the alarmists, we’re not talking about Wilkins or the Larson sheets. We’re talking about the Thwaites glacier.

The study honed in on the Thwaites glacier – a broad glacier that is part of the Amundsen Sea. Scientists have known for years that the Thwaites glacier is the soft underbelly of the Antarctic ice sheet, and first found that it was unstable decades ago.

The University of Washington researchers said that the fast-moving Thwaites glacier could be lost in a matter of centuries. The loss of that glacier alone would raise global sea level by nearly 2ft.

Thwaites also acts as a dam that holds back the rest of the ice sheet. Once Thwaites goes, researchers said, the remaining ice in the sheet could cause another 10 to 13ft (3-4m) of global sea-level rise.

Ok. Well, let’s look at a couple of pictures then. The first is from the 2008 post I did on the volcano:

volcano

The second picture, from the Guardian article, shows the area of the study.  The red dot is the glacier in question:

glacier

Does anyone notice anything interesting?  Yes, that’s right, the glacier in question is in the vicinity of the volcano in question.  And I don’t think anyone would argue that a undersea volcano can’t heat up the sea in the vicinity to a little higher temperature than it would be normally (it was certainly successful with Wilkins).  Has it had an effect?  Who knows … it doesn’t seem to have been mentioned at all in the study.  But, if you go to the Guardian article you’ll see an embedded 17 second video that attempts to explain the effect of the warmer water on the glacier.  It shows less dense (and therefore lighter) warm water somehow flowing under much denser and therefore heavier cold water to destabilize the glacier.  The only reasonable explanation for such a flow would be if the heat source were somewhere near the bottom of the ocean, no?  Otherwise its hard to explain how that warm water got below the cold water and stayed there.

But if you question things like this, you’re an ignorant nincompoop.  A “denier”, which, by the way is akin to being a member of the KKK and a Holocaust denier all in one.  However, I’m certainly not denying that something is happening in Antarctica.  I am questioning the purported cause though.  It isn’t at all unimaginable that the side of Antarctica most exposed to warmer South Pacific sea currents and experiencing volcanic activity might see some melting due to causes unrelated to CO2 put in the atmosphere by man.

That, of course, won’t stop the cultist from declaring themselves to be the ones with science on their side and deniers to be the fact-challenged among us.  Here’s a perfect example from today’s NYT:

But the unfortunate fact about uncertainty is that the error bars always go in both directions. While it is possible that the problem could turn out to be less serious than the consensus forecast, it is equally likely to turn out to be more serious. In fact, it increasingly appears that, if there is any systemic bias in the climate models, it’s that they understate the gravity of the situation. In an interesting paper that appeared in the journal Global Environmental Change, a group of scholars, including Naomi Oreskes, a historian of science at Harvard, and Michael Oppenheimer, a geoscientist at Princeton, note that so-called climate skeptics frequently accuse climate scientists of “alarmism” and “overreacting to evidence of human impacts on the climate system.” But, when you actually measure the predictions that climate scientists have made against observations of how the climate has already changed, you find the exact opposite: a pattern “of under- rather than over-prediction” emerges.

Really?  If that’s the case, that should be pretty easy to demonstrate, shouldn’t it? Since pictures are worth 1,000 words, here’s a little picture I picked up over at The Federalist that does exactly that – it demonstrates that the pattern of the climate models is exactly as the “deniers” have claimed they are:

Climate-Model-Comparison-1024x921

Somehow, the claimant from the NYT couldn’t be bothered to actually fact check.  Instead she swallowed whole the alarmist line and regurgitated it with the usual ignorant literary smirk found in most of their fact free writing.  Sean Davis sums up the argument for most “deniers” very well:

I have a simple rule when it comes to people who want me to invest obscene sums of money in their forecasts of discrete future events: just be accurate. If you come to me and tell me you can predict future stock market performance based on these five factors, then you had better predict future stock market performance based on those five factors. All you have to do is be correct, over and over again. But if your predictive model is wrong, I’m not going to give you any money, and I’m certainly not going to pretend that what you just did is science. Any idiot can make incorrect guesses about the future.

Science, properly practiced, is the search for truth. Science, properly practiced, rejects forecasting models that consistently produce inaccurate forecasts. There’s nothing scientific about shouting down anyone who has the audacity to point out that the only thing your model can accurately predict is what the temperature won’t be.

Indeed.

~McQ

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93 Responses to Antarctic ice shelf “collapse” may have an effect on sea levels … in a 1,000 years

  • As I have said before, all we have to do is get the United Nations to outlaw volcanos! Problem solved!

  • How FUN!  A volcano…!!!  Those are BIG things, and they are VERY energetic.
     
    Here’s what I find MOST fun: who has modeled volcanism for the next 100, 250, 500 years?  Nooooobody.  Because that would be STOOOOOOOooooopid.  There is no reliable way to BEGIN that effort.

    • “Past performance is no guarantee of future returns.” Unless you are a climate modeler in which case you may do things that would get you thrown in jail for fraud in any other profession. Try doing that s**t when modeling an ore body or oil formation.

      • Ezzzz-ackly.  Which of the climate predictive models is PAID FOR BY A PRIVATE SUBSCRIBER?
         
        Which of them has a record that would encourage…or MANDATE…, say, a big agricultural futures trader pay good money for?
         
        Lemme know when THAT happens.

        • I have seen dimbulb lefties claim lately that since the insurance industry is now “believing” by factoring in projected climate disasters that this must all be true. Amazing, isn’t it, how these anti-corporatist jihadis suddenly become pragmatic and super-rational when they think they can get away with it (just go read you-know-who’s blog). Because of course the insurance industry would never look a gift horse in the mouth when being able to raise premiums with no real expectation on paying out. Next you’ll have a President mandating climate disaster insurance, but no, no President would ever do something crazy like mandate a market like that… ha ha ha. Leftists, if they weren’t so dangerous to themselves you’d probably be able to leave them alone with sharp instruments.

    • Honestly, you’d think if they could predict 1000 years out, they wouldn’t be at all shocked with this recent tectonic activity in the Pacific.
      But there ya go, it must be one of those things like “we shall all die in a 1000 years” predictions vs “Joe Jones is a dead man, tomorrow” predictions.

    • Well the only reasonable explanation must be the emissions from my pickup truck triggered that volcano.

  • Clearly the USA’s CO2 output is just angering the Volcano God.

    • What’s to anger…  Our co2 emissions are down…due to the market and its innovations (see fracking).

      • The latest CAGW hysteria is already fading away (Michael Mann will go down, one way or another), but the real danger from this unending cavalcade of Leftist apocalyptic fear-mongering is the disruption of innovation, transitioning from chemical energy to nuclear energy. Fossil-fuels have boot-strapped civilization from the steam age to the digital age, but that’s a one-shot deal — they are finite, and innovation towards nuclear energy must continue apace. Solar, geothermal and wind won’t cut it  The USSR is gone, but their “no nuke” agitprop won’t go away until (at least) the Baby Boomers die off. Once they do, maybe we’ll have a chance.

        • I agree with a lot that.  I even have hopes that I’ll live to see fusion power, or at least it coming ’round the bend.
           
          Fossil fuels will continue to be used by any rational culture into the foreseeable future because they simply work so damned well.  We have ample supplies, and the funny thing about “known reserves” is they just keep getting better “known” with advances in technology, which just keeps getting cheaper and more deploy-able.
           
          Real “environmentalists” in the Chris Hayes model are simply savage misanthropes.  Well, and elitists.
           
          Erp is too dim a bulb (conventional and busted) to realize that he cannot live in Maine if he believes his own bullshit.  I mean that literally.  He could have his own woodlot and burn only his own fuel for heating and cooking and two things would still be true; 1) the EPA, according to its plan, would take his wood-burning stuff, and 2) he’d still be spewing carbon into the air…and maybe at rates greater than if he was burning gas from Texas.  Whadda moron…!!!

          • Fusion we may never see, but there’s enough fissionable options to keep us going for centuries.

            Oddly enough, the real problem we face is not in generation, but in storage and distribution. We have a serious fuel problem on the horizon — those 18-wheelers out there on the road are the red blood cells of the US economy, and they won’t run on any tech presently developed. The common gas pump outputs 10MW of power, but the best “supercharger” for EV’s has less than 1% of that output. If everyone were to switch over to EV’s overnight, the we’d need a grid with 4x the present capacity. These are real issues, ones that modern-day dinosaurs are standing in the way of. Fortunately, there are innovators like Musk that are pushing the state of the art, but that whole “can do” culture needs a resurgence, one we aren’t seeing right now.

          • Funny that in parts of Europe a lot of stealing of wood from forests has begun. In places like Germany and elsewhere. Hmmm, funny that… make electricity more expensive by prematurely subsidizing “green” power sources and shutting down nuclear power plants and people start reverting to burning wood for heat in the winter. Who’d have thunk it? Certainly not the wise technocrats of Moosequeeze U. Amazing how Scott’s 21st century thinking seems to be taking us straight back to the 16th century.

          • The Cathedral would have you all eating bugs.

          • Let me tell ya man, I’m feeling a lot less secure now if bugs for dinner is Food Security.

  • Isn’t it fun, the things you can do with science?
     
    Did you know the earth is flat?  And the sun revolves around it too.   And if the US doesn’t stop using coal and driving SUV’s and the third world stops using magic their smog that doesn’t contribute to global warming, we’re all doomed to die in 1000 years!   WE MUST DO SOMETHING NOW!!!!!!!!
    Something tells me we’re actually all doomed to die sometime before 3014, but I can’t quite lay my finger on what the cause would be, still, we need to do something right now to try and stop it from happening!
     

  • Really though, the French are one upping the illegitimate english bugger folk by predicting we have only 500 days, not 1000 years.

    • They might be French but they ain’t stupid. “Say Jacques, do you think we can trick the rest of these idiots into crippling their economies while we still run France on nuclear power? Surely the Germans would not be so stupid, after all Merkel was a nuclear physicist… what, you say John Kerry is here? Excellent mon amis, we cannot fail. Pass the garlic.”

      • If they can get the Vietnamese to help negotiate the deal, it’ll be a sure thing.

  • Volcanoes cannot have caused the ice melt, 97% of climate scientists are convinced that humans are a significant cause of global warming.  These are people who make it their job to study and analyze data, not cherry pick propagandistic denier claims and pretend that it’s all some big media conspiracy.  I don’t know if you’re willfully ignorant, or have been so mislead by your ideological blinders that you can honestly say that you know better than 97% of the people who study climate for a living.  (Think of that – you think that cherry picking particular websites makes you more of an expert than almost all the people whose living this is – do you know how insane that sounds!)   Oh well, thankfully schools (as young as Kindergarten) are making this a major education initiative, and I’ve used articles from here to show my class what propaganda looks like, why it’s wrong, and how not to be fooled.  But hey – you guys can insult and hide yourself from having to confront reality.  You’ll probably never be convinced – ideological driven thinking tends to find ways to avoid cognitive dissonance.  But perhaps you should sometime pause a second and ask yourself if maybe, just maybe, you’ve gotten so into this kind of ideological holy war that you’ve lost the capacity to think clearly and be open to anything other than what you wish reality to be.

    • “Global cooling”
      “The population bomb”
      “Hole in the ozone”
      OPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPS

    • So what you’re saying is that superheated gases and molten rock have no effect on ice. Got it! I’m so glad we have you here to educate us neanderthals, Erb! All bow down to Scotty, the smartest guy in the room (the room being his closet).

    • …97% of climate scientists are convinced that humans are a significant cause of global warming.
       
      No.  That is a lie, and you are a stupid liar here repeating it, mindlessly.
      Don’t take my word for it.  Do some RESEARCH.

      Volcanoes cannot have caused the ice melt,..
       
      Really? Well, take a few minutes and tell us WHY “volcanoes cannot have caused the ice melt”.
      You have the floor.  Before we mop it with you.

      • Heeeerre, Erpie, Erpie, Erpie….
         
        C’mon.  We’re all waiting.  I have a nice intellectual brick-bat for you…  Just come out and play.

        • Come on, you know he won’t be back. If it approaches anything involving empirical observations of the world or mathy stuff beyond a kindergarten level he keeps a very careful profile. A few meta-analyses perhaps about 97% of priests arguing about angels on a pinhead, but no more than that.

      • Well, Erp has run…again…from an exchange that would demonstrate…again…what a vapid NOT-thinker he is.
         
        For everyone else, here’s a rather good exposition of the derivation of the 97% canard, along with its early misuse…
        http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/07/18/what-else-did-the-97-of-scientists-say/
         
        It’s easy to see where “junk science” finds a home between Erp’s ears.  Nature abhors a vacuum.

        • No, I know the evidence – I actually consult scientists (not ideologically driven partisan bloggers) when I prepare lectures on the politics of global warming.  I know you guys are citing BS, and ignoring real science.  I also don’t care to argue with you about it – everyone who reads these comments has their minds made up, and you’ve proven that when I make solid arguments you just start insulting, you’re willfully ignorant.  But looking at young people, I have a lot of hope for the future, America is on the right track (which is why some of you think it’s going to “burn” or have some other pessimistic defeatist view).   Now, though, I’m off again leading students to Europe, so I won’t be annoying you for awhile.  Have a great rest of May!

          • You didn’t read the link.
            Why?
            Because you are the very embodiment of “epistemic closure”.  Well, and scientific ignorance.
            Any of your students with an open mind will also be snickering at you behind your (voluntarily) stupid back.  Ta!

          • Well, according to the latest polling, America WANTS a Benghazi investigation, and they WANT a different direction from the Obamic Decline.
            Little wonder…
            What is it like to be on the wrong side all the time, Erp?

          • You made the 97% of scientists claim.  Several posted the links to the clear rebuttal of that nonsense number.
            You won’t acknowledge clicking on that link because you are too dishonest to admit that you posted false information.
            You’re being a child, screaming names at people and then running home to momma, yapping from your upstairs window how you’re too smart for everyone else.
            If you believed you were so much smarter, with more comprehensive, accurate information, with superior debate skills, etc. why why why in the world are you ever here at Q&O posting comments?
            Shouldn’t you be on MSNBC explaining your theories on international policies to Rachel Maddow?  Shouldn’t you be attending or even creating on-line forums in which people of your caliber are organizing discussion of the political topics of the day?
            Every single time you return here, you demonstrate that your whole persona is a lie.  You are, as you were dubbed over a decade ago, nothing but a disingenuous fraud.

          • I actually consult scientists

            OK, since we are actually interested in science… could you please note who these scientists are? Those of us who graduated with doctorates in apparently “unreal” science would just like to know your authoritative sources.

            Now, though, I’m off again leading students to Europe, so I won’t be annoying you for awhile.

            Very interesting. You do realize that taking long-haul international air travel is a horrendous carbon footprinter? Could you explain why you profess to sincerely believe in the whole CAGW idea and berate others for ignoring the evidence, yet not only take unnecessary air travel yourself but also actively encourage quite a few others to do so as well? It all seems either highly unethical (do as I say, not as I do) or hypocritical (you ideologues are fools, but I want my tax-payer funded jaunt). Which is it?

          • Bwaaahahahahahahah – you consult scientists.
             
            As the drinking game goes, “I call bullshit”.
             
            Picture the scene….
            You’re a “scientist” (whatever that means, maybe you’re one of those guys from the B movies in the 50’s that always were experts in whatever sciencey subject they needed to be for the conversation at hand, physics, religion, medicine, agriculture, chemistry….we’re talking Leonardo Da Vinci here).
            You’re sitting in your ‘lab’, doing your science thing.
            The phone rings…..
            Could it be the Noble Prize committee for physics (or maybe it’s chemistry, or medicine…. you know all science things if you’ll recall) in Stockholm?   Could they be calling you about your work for physical chemistrical medicine solutions to world hunger, physiology and quantum mechanics (you were going for a Nobel Hat-Trick on that last paper)?
            No….
            It’s some pain in the ass ‘professor’ from Moose college in Maine.
            And he wants to talk.
            About sciencey political stuff, and global warming.
            He has some questions, and you, oh lucky lucky lucky you, are his human Wikipedia page.   He has to give a lecture to 20 kids who are stuck in his poli-sci class this semester.
            This is tres important.
            Okay, maybe he actually fought off the mooses to come to your lab up there just down the road apiece from Moose Squeeze.  You know, the secret global warming climate research lab they have in Skowhegan….Yes, THAT one.
            Or maybe it happens at the Wine and Cheeesers up there in Moose Squeeze.  There are probably hundreds of ‘scientists’ that live in the woods up there and they go to those all the time on Friday evening after a hard week of sciencing.
             
            Now how many people, living in the real world of course, and not Quantum land, believe any of those versions happen, except once in a very blue moon when the college A/C guy, poor fellow, has to change the filters.
             
             
            You have yourself a nice trip Erby, you won’t be missed.

          • Assuming the sage Professor does not bother going off reservation for his consultations I assume that he talks to one of the dons at the high power science departments at Moosequeeze U. Funnily enough, these departments lack and hard physical sciences. My money is on him chatting to some vaguely lonesome final year student in “Environmental science” and calling this a consultation. Ain’t no way Scotty reads source material or understands thermodynamics.
            Oh as an amusement, I see that one can do a “individualized major” at Moosequeeze… someone once did “environmental interpretation” as a major. WTF indeed!
            I am still laughing my skinny white ass off over Scotty dragging dozens of low-info drones on jets around the world and contributing more to global warming than a Koch brother on fire.

          • …you’ve proven that when I make solid arguments you just start insulting…

            Well, I’ll be happy to have you prove that by citing to a post where you’ve “made a solid argument” and I “just started insulting”.
             
            I don’t think you can, and so you are lying when you make that claim.  Prove me wrong.

          • About to head to the airport for the flight to Berlin, but you don’t get it – I don’t need to defend my claims to you.  I don’t care what you think, you can reject what I say, you will no matter how much I support it.  I know I’m right and you’re wrong – and in the real world I use true information to try to defeat the propaganda crap you anti-science folks spew.  You’re not worth me doing anything but throwing off a comment or two and watching you all unravel in silliness.  I don’t respect you enough to spend real time on you – you’re not worth it, and these comments are not read by anyone really wanting real information.  This is an inbred blog, meaning only true believers read and comment — and they attack those who go against the party line.   You guys would be great Communists!   But you can be funny in your reactions!  Live well!

          • The Erbomatic is core dumping again. That’s the problem with these old units, some stray stolen pizza or another failed marriage usually sends them into an infinite recursion on the postmodernist processing thread. Anyone care to power cycle the damn thing?

          • “I don’t need to defend my claims to you.”  – uh huh, we’re kinda sciency here so when you come in with your feelings we kinda want you to give us the science behind WHY you ‘feel’ a certain way.  Feelings are okay, but they’re not a substitute for facts.
             
            ” I know I’m right and you’re wrong – and in the real world I use true information to try to defeat the propaganda crap you anti-science folks spew.”
            Yeah, whatever, back at ya.  Nanny Nanny boo boo and all that.
            It’s fun knowing ya just couldn’t NOT answer though.   We OWN some big real estate in your head don’t we Scotty?
             
            ” I don’t respect you enough to spend real time on you – you’re not worth it, and these comments are not read by anyone really wanting real information.  This is an inbred blog,”   Which you feel you need to come and enlighten….
            This, priceless – back on the aggressive drugs?  Off the anti-depressants?   One week you don’t insult and you want to have conversations, the next week you come back with the insults.  So today it’s Mr, Hyde today(again) instead of Dr. Jerkill eh?
             
            Get on the plane, go to Europe, try to pretend you’re Canadian or something, we already have a bad enough reputation for being morons as it is.

          • Still chortling over the ‘real time’ comment.
            Sure, because checking to see if anyone had responded to my last dismissive post just BEFORE I hopped a flight to Berlin would be upper most in my mind.
            I mean that would be a priority for me between making sure I had all my stuff packed, and passport and travel arrangements squared away while I was looking forward to my trip.
             
            Hint:  You just spent ‘real time’ on us.
             

          • “No, I know the evidence.”  Is that the best you can do?  The equivalent of “I know better than you do – neener neener neener!!!”  That’s all you got?  You consult with scientists?  Care to name them?  Care to link us to how they refute what we have collectively given you – we provided a link to refute your 97% BS claim?  Can you?  No?  And you suppose anyone he is going to listen to you, a hard core progressive determined to support Obama and the policies of the Democratic Party so that your prediction of the demise of America will come true?  This is not one of your classrooms, Erb, where your students have to parrot your BS theories back to you or risk a poor grade.  This is not your teacher’s lounge where you collectively parrot the left slogans or risk being ostracized or lose the possibility of tenure by saying anything other than the “Party Line”!!!!  Here, if you want to be believed, you gotta produce – and that means back up your words – or are you a COWARD?  Afraid to put your words to the test?  And words backed up by more than just your word – because you have proven time and again on these pages that your word means absolutely nothing!!!  Prove us wrong – back up your words – or go to your room and let the adults in the room discuss this country’s future.

          • I’m still trying to figure out why I spent all those years studying a proper science only to spew anti-science propaganda… But Erb is a scientific (well, political scientific) genius who can probably evaluate path integrals while pilfering pizza to impress the undergrads so I can only bow to his immense intellect.
             
            But, on behalf of all Europeans great and small, may I say dear Professor… Yankee go home!

          • “You’re not worth me doing anything but throwing off a comment or two and watching you all unravel in silliness.  I don’t respect you enough to spend real time on you – you’re not worth it, and these comments are not read by anyone really wanting real information.”
             
            Really?  For reals, in reality?
             
            Well.  THAT was a very clear admission of trolling.  And that he lies when he claims his “niceness” and respect for other views.
             
            He’s just a Collectivist bung-sucker, all-in, all-done.

          • …I don’t need to defend my claims to you.  I don’t care what you think….

            If that were so, you’d have stopped pulling your drive-bys here at Q&O.
            Just stop coming here.  You don’t care what we think.  We don’t care what you think.  There is no point for you to even comment here.
            Just go away.

          • You don’t care what we think

            Ahh but there is the rub. Despite his protestations, he does care quite a lot what we think and for reasons that have been enumerated more times than I remember.

          • It’s not at all clear why the mods allow a self-described troll who admits to contributing nothing free reign over this forum — one presumes they don’t let lowlifes tag-up the sides of their houses,

          • It’s not at all clear why the mods allow a self-described troll who admits to contributing nothing free reign over this forum


            Some around here feel that way (me, for example), while others get entertainment from him and even tease him to come around.


            He does serve the purpose of supplying an extreme example of a certain type of collectivist, illustrating a major disconnect from reality. But we could get any number of examples at Daily Kos or Democratic Underground, so I don’t put much value in that.

          • It’s not at all clear why the mods allow a self-described troll who admits to contributing nothing free reign over this forum — one presumes they don’t let lowlifes tag-up the sides of their houses,

            Two reasons really – pure entertainment value.  Never, ever will you see more backtracking, denial, hypocrisy and double-talk than you will with him.  He is the master of “word salad”.  Which brings us to the second reason – he unconsiously validates every assertion and claim we make about the left, in spades.  He’s our “useful idiot” in that regard.

             

      • Next thing, he’ll be saying fire can’t melt steel.

        • Well, it can, but it will be the first time in history if it does.

    • Sorry, even that “97%” figure has been debunked, along with the theory itself. The only thing keeping that meme alive is grantsmanship. But hey – you can insult and hide yourself from having to confront reality.  You’ll probably never be convinced – ideological driven thinking tends to find ways to avoid cognitive dissonance.  But perhaps you should sometime pause a second and ask yourself if maybe, just maybe, you’ve gotten so into this kind of ideological holy war that you’ve lost the capacity to think clearly and be open to anything other than what you wish reality to be.

      • No it hasn’t been debunked – not at all.  But I’ve given up trying to convince you all, I’m focusing on the next generation.  You guys are lost in an ideological fog, and you’re reinforcing each other’s fog and attacking anyone who tries to clear things up a bit.   I’m certainly not going to do work to show you you’re wrong – been there, done that and you guys just insult.  So I’m focusing on teaching, being involved politically and making a difference in the real world.

        • Several links were posted detailing the genius of the 97% canard(s).
          But you didn’t read them.
          Why?  They are written by REAL scientists, and they offer ample documentation.
          Did that scare you, Erp?
          Why is dealing with…well…ANYTHING that challenges your Collectivist bubble so very frightening to you?

        • No, it’s been debunked. Read the links. Also, I am the next generation. :)

          • Erb needs the next generation because the current generations have figured out the scam.
            New blood and all that.

          • In a decade or two, they will have moved on to another apocalyptic crisis — maybe Global Cooling, something that would genuinely be worse than warming.  Thanks to the scare, though, they’ve added a lot of really accurate temp sensors in the 00’s, and it all shows cooling. Contrast this against Michael Mann’s (now broken) “hockey stick” that’s fabricated from just one cherry-picked tree.

        • Erb the only reason these clowns went from pretending we were going into another ice age in the 70’s and early 80’s to we were heating up the globe in the 90’s and today is because some bright light person with acumen on the level of an L. Ron Hubbard (who realized there was more money in religion than in Science Fiction authorship) realized man would have to ‘do things’ to heat up the globe to stop an ice age, and that was too hard, there was no money or control or sanity in trying to force people to DO things, or bill them for NOT doing things (you know, burning leaves in your backyard to heat up the globe for example).
           
          So they did a 180.  It would be better to scare everyone with warming!!!   After all, in theory we could STOP warming by NOT doing things, governments could regulate ‘not’ doing things and fine those who continued to do them, we could allocate the rights to ‘do things’ and then trade those right between people who needed to do more of those things and people who didn’t need to do those things.   Oh yes, it was all very convenient how it could be regulated and create a market literally out of the thin air.
          This, despite the fact that all the evidence they would use to claim we were warming was the same as the evidence they used to claim we were ice age bound up until around 1980. Then suddenly all that data changed what everything meant!  Miracle of miracles!
           
          And of course the younger generations who hadn’t had to listen to Mad-max prophecies about running out of oil and hadn’t seen Paul Newman movies about a global ice cube and the end of humanity could be lied to and persuaded that unless we all got on board with Captain Planet we were going to heat up the world with our SUV’s and create the eighth level of Dante’s Inferno right here on mother earth.
           
          Stop lying by promoting the ongoing lie Scott.
          You’re nothing but Al Gore’s unpaid Carbon Dioxide credits scheme salesman.

          • I’d love to argue the facts with Scott Erb, but all he’s interested in is trolling and running away, retreating into his narcissistic fantasy where he’s invincible.

            Anywho, here are those bears again to debunk CAGW for the layity… enjoy! :)

          • There is a standard meme from Princess Bride about people using words that don’t mean what they think they mean.
            “Facts”, is a word Erb uses a lot that meets this description.
            So, when YOU say facts, you probably have like, um, actual facts, in mind.
            When he uses the term, he’s using something that is the sort of thing you feel when Travis shoots Old Yeller, or in my case, when the 54th Massachusetts charges the berm at Fort Wagner in Glory.   Most of his facts are kinda emotional.

          • Let’s say, just for chuckles, that “we have reached the point of no return”, according to the hack for “The Union Of Concerned Scientists”.  Who are mostly NOT scientists, and make no pretense at being scientists.
             
            What could we do, starting TODAY…this very minute…that would allow us to “return”?  Or, for that matter, to complete the trip?
             
            Not one damn thing.  Nothing.  Nada.  Zip.  Not in reality.  And NOBODY with the least credibility will tell you different.  There is, of course, the Chris Hayes solution…kill billions of human beings.  I wonder if he’s considered that quite a few of those human beings might take violent exception?
             
            So it all reduces to emotion.  Well, and the enthusiastic clamor for a greater expression of authoritarian/totalitarian government.  Which nutshells Erp very nicely.

          • Don’t forget “show me the money!”

        • Clearing things up, Erb? Seriously? You’re the one who just said that a volcano couldn’t melt ice. If that’s your definition of “clearing” things up, then you’re the one surrounded by the ideological fog. What a moron!

    • Once again Erb can go back to his Progressive Masters and collect his 30 pieces of silver.  Keep up the good work there Erb – but save your comments for that echo chamber you call a blog because nobody here will let you get away with spouting BS.

    • I’ve used articles from here to show my class what propaganda looks like

      Bwa ha ha ha! The political “scientist” who knows no science teaching unsuspecting drones what propaganda looks like. Oh my God the irony is just soooooo lovely that this one is worth printing and framing. As noted by others even the propaganda you cite has been widely debunked and you are idiot enough to claim volcanoes can’t melt ice. I *think* what you meant was that vulcanism can’t explain all the increased CO2 emissions, which no one really has issue with. But hey, what is a bit of confused sciency stuff between friends?
      Hey Scotty, how about another “scientific” lecture on quantumy creamy goodness? No? Given up on that?

      • Yeah a minor blog of skeptical people is propaganda, but An Inconvenient Truth is not.

    • Is it possible that you are actually attempting to parody yourself?
      That “97%” has been completely debunked.  Here’s some light reading: http://wattsupwiththat.com/?s=97%25
      So you have that going for you.
      The volcano in question has ALREADY been attributed to more glacier mobility in that same area: the Pine Island glacier.  Also, it was recently discovered that the glaciers had been resting on an underwater ridge that recently eroded. Thus, the glaciers are moving faster.  No AGW needed.
      Nice try at being relevant.

    • “you’ve gotten so into this kind of ideological holy war that you’ve lost the capacity to think clearly and be open to anything other than what you wish reality to be.”
       
      Hey, Professor numbskull – which part of “in a 1,000 years” aren’t you getting here?
       
      You know, the same time period from around, to pick a significant date, William the Conqueror until, um, today.     Hardly any changes in the world, the climate, or civilization since poor old Harold fell at Hastings and England’s royals spoke  Norman French for a while eh?
       
      If we can manage to hang on to the knowledge we have then it’s only reasonable to expect continued exponential change in our civilization.
      Maybe you’re not old enough to recall using a slide rule to do heavy calculations (assuming you DID any), you’re certainly old enough to remember using something like a Selectric typewriter to type your first mindless screed.  Seen any changes in, say, those two areas, by any chance?
      Like this thing you’re not replying on?
       
      If you want to do your pee-pee dance over a danger that might, and I heavily emphasize the word MIGHT, happen 1000 years from now, feel free but leave sane people out of your dementia.

    • Let’s just throw Erb into the volcano

    • A spectacular self-beclowning from the Erbster this time! He brings a knife to a gunfight and proceeds to sit down and hack off both his own feet, declares “is not is not is not!” and runs off home with not so much as a reference to a dubious propaganda outlet. Your powers grow weak, old man.

      • Shouldn’t that have been, “…stumps off home with not so much as…”?  Besides that, dead on.

  • Volcanoes cannot have caused the ice melt,

    >>>. WHY?

    • “Because I decree it! Also, I’m always nice! I decree that, too!”

      Oh man, I miss Ott Scerb, but it seems he’s unnecessary now since Erb just parodies himself immediately…

  • http://hotair.com/archives/2014/05/14/new-irs-e-mails-yep-direction-came-from-d-c-and-yep-it-was-political/
     
    When the taxing “power to destroy” and the will to commit tyranny collide.

    • Non scandal!  Non scandal!   Just crazy talk!   Nothing improper!
       
      From weaponized taxation and environmental regulation to dead State Department employees and dead wait listed Veterans – NOTHING is improper in this administration, and EVERYTHING was improper in the last one.

  • So….
    someone predicts in hundreds of years, IF the ice melts….
    And asshats run off in all directions using the theoretical rise of sea level to push their asshat climate agenda.
    Jerry Brown says (and then retracts) that LAX and SFO will be underwater in a couple hundred years and we need to, uh, get ready?
    Some other dude runs out and photo shops US cities under water, which some climate asshat in England says these will help American politicians and the public understand the dangers….
     
    Wanna talk about dangers…how about slightly more immediate ones that might do as much or more damage to Western Civilization in a much shorter time frame?
    Like Islamic fundamentalism or Russian and Chinese geo-power plays.
     

    • Or the very rapid destruction of ANOTHER whole country via Collectivism going on in Venezuela.
       
      Well, and here…  Just slower.

      • I blame that on the Rueshans – that’s their danged client state, or wuz once.  Maybe I should blame Cuba and Castro, but he’s just a jumped up Russki puppet anyway.
         
        Our collectivists are different you see!  We won’t have to speak Russian to take their orders.

  • The science is settled. Sunlight coming from millions of miles away is much hotter than the energy being spewed from a volcano hundreds of miles away.
     
    Which is why nobody gives a fig about the Yellowstone Caldera!

    • Really, Shark!  Why don’t we have a BIG program to control THAT sucker? 
      ‘Cause next time it blows there’s gonna be one hell of a lot of co2 released.

      • “Yellowstone Caldera!”
        WE don’t have complete control of THAT one
         
        We just keep it in the closet to frighten the children when they start asking inconvenient questions.
         
        (okay, not much control at all, in fact, no control of any kind…but we’re watchcin it – cause yelling “heads up!!!!” when a nuke drops on you will help, and we’re here to help!  Tax dollars please.)

  • Given that the GAO has the economy collapsing in the next few decades, it’s nice to know, that while our economy is doing a “Titanic” in the near term, our benevolent OverLords are concerned about events hundreds of years into the future.

  • http://www.steynonline.com/6342/six-degrees-of-warmerization
    A VERY readable…and unstinting…little exposition of Dr. Mann, of the Chicago Way of warm-monger intimidation and shut-uppery.
     
    It is pretty free of scientific jargon, so even Erp could sound it out.
     

  • OMG –
     
    Sigh.
    What do you get when you combine a prediction a millennium away and a snazzy graphics package for photo shopping?
    Eh! Viola!  A new scare for the low info morons (makes it fitting it’s a Washington DC radio station then….)
    Posted as ‘Science’ no les.
    Oh, science, indeed.

    • “We’ve reached the point of no return,” says Brenda Ekwurzel, senior climate scientist with the Union of Concerned Scientists. “We can expect by the end of the century, according to the National Climate Assessment, anywhere between one and five feet of sea-level rise.”
       
      and
       
      “We might be taking those paddle boats in the Tidal Basin right up to the base of the Jefferson Memorial, getting out, and walking up the steps,” says Ekwurzel.
       
      Sorry.  That ditz should be arrested for criminal fraud and sued if she’s ever had a dollar of tax-payer money.  That is one of Erp’s “scientists”.  What charlatans.

  • There’s always an Arquillian Battle Cruiser, or a Corillian Death Ray, or an intergalactic plague that is about to wipe out all life on this miserable little planet, and the only way these people can get on with their happy lives is that they DO NOT KNOW ABOUT IT!

  • http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2014/05/16/jerry-brown-climate-change-to-blame-for-california-wildfires/
     
    Gov. Moonbeam lets his moron fly free!
     
    Wow.  So back in the 50s and 60s when I watched my hills burning from my elementary school playground (several times), THAT was Gorebal Climate Thingy.
     
    Is there ANYTHING it cannot do…???
     

  • Past the point of no return, eh?  Good.  Everyone who actually believes that nonsense should now go slit their wrists in despair.  Or at very least sit down and STFU, because they’ve failed utterly and nothing can be done.