Free Markets, Free People

If anyone else did this, it would be prosecuted as “FRAUD”!

Actually, the “American voter” wasn’t as stupid, as Jonathan Gruber claimed, because, as he admits numerous times, they had to resort to outright fraud to get the ACA past those voters.  Brian Faughnan summarizes:

So Gruber is previously on the record saying Obamacare subsidies are available ONLY in states that set up exchanges – not in all states. He has also said the law was sold in a deceptive way to fool stupid voters. Now we see him claim that the Affordable Care Act was actually a way to get rid of employer-provided health care, but it had to be done secretly so the American people would go along with it:

“It turns out politically it’s really hard to get rid of,” Gruber said. “And the only way we could get rid of it was first by mislabeling it, calling it a tax on insurance plans rather than a tax on people when we all know it’s a tax on people who hold those insurance plans…

Gruber explains that by drafting the bill this way, they were able to pass something that would initially only impact some employer plans though it would eventually hit almost every employer plan. And by that time, those who object to the tax will be obligated to figure out how to come up with the money that repealing the tax will take from the treasury, or risk significantly adding to the national debt.

“What that means is the tax that starts out hitting only 8% of the insurance plans essentially amounts over the next 20 years essentially getting rid of the exclusion for employer sponsored plans,” Gruber said.

But to these ethically crippled jerks, it’s not fraud, it’s “clever(ness)”:

A video that surfaced this week shows Gruber telling a Rhode Island audience in 2012 how the feds will collect a tax on high-end policies without families realizing they’re actually paying the tax via insurers: “(I)t’s a very clever, you know, basic exploitation of the lack of economic understanding of the American voter.”

Basic “exploitation” – comforting to know that your government actually and purposely was deceitful with the aim of  fooling the public into accepting something the law wasn’t.  Name a fraudster anywhere who doesn’t think he’s “clever”.

Now tell me — what do we usually call such attempts?

FRAUD.

And what do we do with those who attempt to defraud the public?

We put them in jail.

But, you know, that would be “accountability”.

We apparently don’t do “accountability” in the US.  So fraudsters are free to brag about how they did what they did without worrying about facing any consequences.

And the left – well, here’s what they’re worried about:

Former White House press secretary Jay Carney told CNN that Gruber’s remarks in general were “very harmful politically to the president.”

~McQ

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19 Responses to If anyone else did this, it would be prosecuted as “FRAUD”!

  • Gruber’s remarks in general were “very harmful politically to the president.”
    … as if we didn’t know the man is a liar

  • Well, yes. In general, the Collective ARE fraudsters. They lie. They pretend. They misrepresent.

    But here Grubber is not talking about you and I as being “stupid”. Because we were NEVER fooled. We were hopping mad, and telling the world that ObamaDoggle was lies all up and down. It COULD not work as advertised, and there was NO such problem as it pretended to address. We knew all that, and we were not swallowing the lies Pres. ScamWOW was peddling.

    The “stupid” were the rank and file Deemocrats, people like Erp who DID swallow the lode the Collective was shooting. Gulping it down and asking for more.

    And now, thanks to this man’s nemesis (he seems incapable of NOT spilling his guts on video tape in a paroxysm of hubris over how wonderfully clever he is), all of us who said this was a massive swindle are vindicated.

    Again.

    • 10% have the real control/benefit, the rest are useful idiots.
      Within that 10% that have control, see above and repeat until you almost run out of people.

      • I don’t believe it’s 10% … really, it’s much less than 1% … seems that “control freaks” really don’t like to share.

      • The remainder of the 10% may think they are part of the “control” group, but they are merely serfs like the rest of us.

    • There’s three groups –

      There’s us, who never believed the lies in the first place.
      There’s the ‘stupid voters’ people Gruber is talking about, which covers not just stupid voters, but let me throw Nancy Pelosi a bone and pretend she was unaware of what Gruber had done too, which of course makes her one of the stupid people who voted for this.
      And then there’s the arrogant #$@^&*@@@ sob’s sitting in that room listening to him.

      Let me ask who are the the people sitting in those room listening to him?

      Why didn’t they rise up at being called stupid, at being told he’d defrauded them, why didn’t the males and any likely females in the audience carry him outside kicking and screaming and introduce him to, at the very least, a nearby pond, stream or estuary leading to the Atlantic. You can bet he’s not giving these little talks to the collected and assembled homeless, illegal or underprivileged.
      The elite, the special, our betters.

      2012 – he told those people what he’d done, what they’d done and not a word. Who did he tell. They’re just as bad.
      Members of the collective, presumably liberal, progressive voters who will now want the rest of us to be bi-partisan and work with them to get more things done.
      But we’re supposed to treat these people with decency, and accept that anything they want to do is for the national good.
      Yeah. Be worth knowing who was in those lectures wouldn’t it.

      Facial recognition software and internet fraud shaming.

  • I’ve been reading about, and pondering, what Jonathan Gruber has said, both about ObamaCare and the average American voter. From what I can glean, this fellow is an economist. He calls himself a “numbers guy” in the Frontline interview. Makes me have very real trust issues with economists. Especially if they are a liberal Democrat like Gruber.

    My main question is this. This interview was done in July 2012, yet it is just now surfacing. It seems to me the media is more than a little culpable in deceiving the American voter. But, of course, we knew that already.

    • There are reports on the various media where the writer or producers just don’t understand what they are conveying. Often it is explosive, but they don’t grasp the more subtle secondary implications.
      Take as an example, PBS’s “Frontline” ran a piece 10 or so years ago where the stated the the Clinton “Millionaires Tax” had spawned the explosive growth of corporate options for management as a “workaround” to the tax. They also mentioned that in the following years, through the use of these options that management had, in what they described as the “largest transfer of wealth in history,” managed to get control of many of their own corporation by, in essence, stealing equity and then control from the stockholders.
      You’d think that the Collectivists would be all over that, but I guess they don’t care about what probably appeared to be a “food fight” among the wealthy. After some noise about corporation accounting of the value of these options, the corporation merely switched to restricted stock grants which are vested over time like options, but are in effect, time released stock give-aways.

  • Can we imagine the stories the NYT, WP, and LAT would be carrying on the front page, top of the fold every day this week and for the next month if a Republican was President and had passed Obamacare via such fraudulent techniques. Of course, if we are entirely honest,they would have exposed each of Obama’s fraudulent actions in 2009 and 2010. every single day for months if he were a Democrat. Yet, they routinely carry stories about how well it is working, how the costs are going down, and have refused to cover Gruber’s revelations.

  • Couple of thoughts:

    1- it’s all precedent now, if the GOP has the balls to do it.
    2- Gruber, Lerner, the palace guard media- they’re still sitting fat and smug for today but mark my words the time is coming when they’re gonna have to run. They prove we are no longer a consensual society. When the greater number wakes up to this fact, it’s gonna be ugly
    3- the average voter neither knows about Gruber, no cares if they do know.

  • For a number of years I have heard some people refer to the government as “a criminal conspiracy”. I have always dismissed them as nut cases. Now, with things like “Fast and Furious”, the IRS thing, and the ACA fraud it is becoming harder to dismiss the nut cases (and they are indeed mostly certifiable nutcases). Particularly as it is becoming clear that career “civil servants” and not just political hacks are involved up to their armpits. I really dread the day when some Lyndon LaRouche supporter comes up to me and can say “We told you so!”.

  • Innit interesting that nobody knows this Grubber guy…

    who wrote the law, and…

    they paid literally millions of dollars to for his work?

    “How many fingers am I holding up, Winston?”

  • Ace of Spades had a link to a question and answer session with Peter Orszag about this. He confirms what Gruber says, that its a way to tax plans, and to eventually remove the employer based healthcare insurance system. He further explains that this had to be done this way because of electoral issues…by which he means Obam had criticized McCain’s plan of dropping healthcare insurance’s tax free status.

    By the way, if you think about that for a moment, you realize that by doing this, they gave up a chance to bring the GOP on board. Using part of McCains’ plan would have been a compromise concession. Its sort of proof that they didn’t want to actually negotiate that they’d use this back door method.

    Keep in mind that Orszag at the time was in the executive branch, IIRC. This means Obama has less of his fig lead than he thinks. (Obama will claim Gruber worked for Pelosi, not him.) However, we see from the clip that Orszag was in the know.

    Its also fun to watch him obfuscate around the reasons they did it that way.

    http://ace.mu.nu/archives/353156.php

    • Your ordinary, garden variety fraudsters are bad people who deserve real punishment.

      But your Collectivist fraudster who has every intention of using the full force of government to enforce their fraud…THOSE guys all deserve to be hung by their balls for the crows to peck. If you could find any balls…

    • Goober wasn’t the only architect of OzeroCare. Back in 2009, another one of the fraudsters bragged about how the goal of the law is single payer and that they weren’t even trying to hide that fact:

      • Just checked the White House visitor logs. Hacker visited 4 times, the most recent 8/29/2014. Goober visited 19 times, at least once for a meeting with the Goober-in-Chief.

  • MYTH: The House health insurance reform bill would result in higher premiums.

    FACT: An analysis of the House bill by noted MIT health care economist Jonathan Gruber concludes that the bill would result in lower premiums than under current law for the millions of Americans using the newly-established Health Insurance Exchange — including those who are not receiving affordability credits to help them purchase coverage (the Health Insurance Exchange is for those without access to affordable employer-sponsored coverage).

    http://www.democraticleader.gov/newsroom/health-insurance-reform-mythbuster-health-insurance-reform-bill-will-result-in-higher-premiums/

    This is Nancy Pelosi’s web site