Free Markets, Free People

The Junior Varsity strikes Brussels

I think we all knew it wasn’t a matter of “if”, but when.  “When” was today.

Today in Brussels was a demonstration by ISIS.   Unlike our President, they actually back their talk with action.  They’ve been saying for quite some time they were going to strike in a different way – a mass casualty way.  Previously, they were mostly interested in targeted actions, like Charlie Hebdo.

Today, it was about terror … pure and simple.  All the attacks took place outside of secure areas.  Easy as pie.  One in the waiting area to go through security at the airport and one in a subway station.  And it certainly doesn’t take a heck of a lot of sophisticated intelligence gathering.  The timing (rush hour at the subway station, any busy hour at the airport) is pretty easy to figure out.

It could have been anywhere a crowd was gathered.   But we’re not talking rocket science here.  Identify a target, recruit one or more fanatics, explosives … some assembly required (automatic disassembly guaranteed upon detonation).

It could have also happened anywhere.  In any country.  Of course, Brussels is the capital of the EU.  ISIS is big into symbolism when they strike outside their region.

The point of course is you can look for this to happen any number of times in any number of places in the (near) future.  As I said, this is their demonstration.

So where is “next”?  A crowded shopping mall on a sale day?  A stadium sports event?  A political rally?

More importantly what can we do about it … without giving up more liberty and freedoms?

Me, I’m all for taking my chances and playing the terrorist lottery.  I figure I’ve got about as much a chance of winning that lottery as I do the state’s numbers game, er, lottery.

However, that’s not what I expect to see.

Hide and watch.

~McQ

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107 Responses to The Junior Varsity strikes Brussels

  • Hide won’t be an option.
    We will be made to care, and participate, in Home Security theater.
    And we will do anything and everything that will have little effect and avoid the hell out of things that actually might.

    If you’re a granny from Iowa, you can expect to be thrice inspected at every opportunity, there will be no profiling here.
    And let’s not forget the incidents of Islamophobia that are even now being concocted by CAIR.

  • The command structure of ISIS (which was formerly known as al Qaeda in Iraq) is heavy with Ba’ath Party veterans from Saddam’s security services. Who trained Saddam’s security services? The KGB did. Who is running ISIS?

    • While I know you’d love the cold war to be back, that was long ago and this is a very different conflict. Moreover, ISIS is not primarily from the old Ba’ath party – they arose from al qaeda in Iraq, which was a rouge operation that the Baathists actually turned against in 2007. They did give ISIS support last year out of anger for how the Shi’ites were mistreating them, but ISIS is very different from the old Baathist regime, and it’s leaders are not the same people.

      • You don’t know what you’re talking about. But that doesn’t even need to be said.

        See Michael Weiss, who has covered ISIS very carefully on who and what comprises ISIS.

        • You don’t know what you’re talking about. But that doesn’t even need to be said.

          It doesn’t hurt to repeat the truth.

          • I certainly know what I’m talking about. In teaching World Politics I developed a history of ISIS looking at multiple sources, including handouts on who ISIS is. You see, when you’re responsible for actually spreading information from a position of authority, you don’t have the luxury of making just snide political comments or spinning information to what one’s ideology would want. I have to do the hard work of making sure the information is correct. I noticed that while each of you can call names, you can’t really counter what I said. I’m not surprised.

          • No you don’t; you’re not capable of understanding the first thing about any of this.

          • I developed a history of ISIS looking at multiple sources, including handouts on who ISIS is.

            Laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh.

            Laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh.

            Handouts!? Well, I guess your version is thus proved to be unassailable metaphysical certitude.

            Laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh.

            …making just snide political comments or spinning information to what one’s ideology would want.

            That is all you do, Scott. You’re a cheap propagandist.

            You’re only here to vandalize the place.

            …you can’t really counter what I said.

            Scott, I could counter every damned lie you’ve ever posted on-line, with extensive documentation. You’d just quip that you’re “not convinced” and reset your subroutines.

            Go p1ss up a rope, vandal.

          • You’re being silly, Elliot. That’s OK – you can comment on blogs based on your emotional reaction. But if you had a position of real responsibility you would have a moral duty to better educate yourself, and rather than mindless attacks, to actually engage in real discussion. But you don’t have that responsibility (thank goodness) so carry on as you have been! Me, I do have a responsibility to get this right because my profession demands it. I take that seriously. I don’t take you seriously, though – you give me no reason to.

          • Me, I do have a responsibility to get this right because my profession demands it.

            Laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh.

            You get paid to indoctrinate impressionable youth with your partisan propaganda. Those who programmed you and those who sign your paychecks expect you to continue to be a vessel to spread your diseased ideology.

            If I presented my customers with false or distorted information, I’d be a failure and soon out of work. I was never taught to mislead or dissemble.

            Now, go away, vandal.

          • “Me, I do have a responsibility to get this right because my profession demands it. I take that seriously”

            Hog snot. We have read your claims of your serious study of Islam, and the results would be laughable if it were not for the fact some innocent youts actually pay to be misinformed by you. The only reason you can get away with it is because your peers don’t attend your classes and your students don’t know any better.

          • Ah, Elliot, the same name calling and lies – you wear your bitterness on your sleeve. But the fact is I oppose propagandizing, and my job is to try to make people immune to it, to think for themselves, to question everything and learn to have the tools of rational thought to make up their own minds. To recognize that in a democracy disagreement is good, and the people not to trust are those who believe so fervently in their own righteousness that they attack with insults and lies those who think differently than they do. You fear real discussion so you hide behind impotent insults. On a website like this, you can feel strong – people are on your side. In the real world the results are quite different.

          • “In the real world the results are quite different.”

            Yes, people like you are rapidly killed by nature or more brutal people without people like us to watch over you.

          • Alan, I have absolutely no need for people like you. Quite the contrary.

          • ” I have absolutely no need for people like you. Quite the contrary.”

            Really. What can you do with such profound and willful ignorance.

          • Yes you do, you just look down on us because you think we’re beneath you.

            Until you need us.

            It’s okay skippy, we understand the sheep don’t really need to know we’re doing our jobs.

          • But the fact is I oppose propagandizing, and my job is to try to make people immune to it, to think for themselves, to question everything and learn to have the tools of rational thought to make up their own minds.

            Doubleplusgood.

            In astoundingly Orwellian fashion, you portray yourself as the opposite of what you are. You may be able to fool some young adults, but you don’t fool anyone here.

            …the people not to trust are those who believe so fervently in their own righteousness that they attack with insults and lies those who think differently than they do.

            That’s why nobody here trusts you. Most of us have been the recipient of your insults and lies. It’s so common, you’re the subject of hundreds of parodies.

            Others may verify what I say by getting into a protracted debate with you, standing their ground, and eventually you’ll get around to lying about them.

            I’ve never lied about you, and when I’ve written things which I discovered to be wrong, I admitted to my error.

            You fear real discussion….

            That’s a lie. I’ve attempted to have genuine discussions with you, like Charlie trying to kick the football. Like Lucy, you always fall back on your cheap sophistry. Over and over again.

            When I disregard your pretense and refuse to try to kick the ball, you whine about me insulting you. As I said long ago, if you regard my accurate description of your behavior to be insulting, you should really look at modifying your behavior.

            Meanwhile, I’ve engaged in thousands of civil, respectful discussions with others. Almost nobody acts like you. I’ve had protracted debates with liberals, conservatives, and others. I’ve had very stark differences with many of them. But when they behave respectfully and demonstrate an honest belief in what they write, I don’t have problems going back and forth.

            Everywhere you go online, you stir up similar reactions. That’s because you’re a vandal. You’ve never had any interest in real discussion. You’ve never been genuine.

            You’re a vandal.

            That’s all.

        • Of course you do, bless your heart. You just don’t know it.

          If you had a clue you’d crap your pants

  • First, don’t give into fear. They can attack like these, but overall the odds of getting caught in an attack are low, tens of thousands are killed by auto accidents more frequently. This is dramatic, but not to be feared. Also, we should avoid the over-reaction like we had to 9-11 when al qaeda got the US to get involved in a war in Iraq that harmed US interests. However, the hard work will be to coordinate intelligence operations, infiltrate terror cells, and stop most before they take place. Against ISIS it’s important NOT to make the mistake made in Iraq and put massive American forces in the region – that plays into the terrorists hands, they want that. Instead, continue to support Muslims fighting Muslims – ISIS has been degraded and is losing – things like this are acts of desperation, trying to get us to make a mistake and let fear mislead. They are weak, even though they can dramatically kill no and then. We must not make them seem stronger than they are.

    • First Scott, just shut the hell up.
      Shut the hell up about fear. Shut the hell up while the adults figure out what we’re going to do to address the problem.
      You’re not capable of contributing anything meaningful except this usual bullshit about not being afraid and telling us what you think is important when we all know from your history that you’re a clueless asshat about dealing with anything even remotely like this and your understanding of historical Islam is right out of a bowdlerized Cliff Notes universe.

      No one here is worried about getting caught in an attack, but we for damn sure understand they can’t be allowed to continue until Islam just gets tired of launching them.
      You’re as useless as the people who are going to build teddy bear shrines and tweet “We are Brussels” and pretend they’re doing something useful and meaningful.
      If all you have to contribute is “don’t be drawn in! don’t panic!, they’re weak, don’t give them strength” then go back to reading scary stories where saying the name of your enemy makes them stronger.

      You need to face up to the fact that all the idiots of your ilk, liberal progressive boneheads, are going to start demanding we ‘do something!’ but of course not anything that might offend anyone who might practice Islam. Which means whatever is done will inconvenience the average American tremendously and do nothing to stop anyone with a mind to commit a terrorist attack.

      Islam is not compatible with western philosophies of freedom, individuality, inalienable rights and democracy, so just shut it, we’re not going to get along with even the non radical versions of the sect and they’re not going to change any time soon. Accept the grim reality that we’re headed for a epic culture clash, and they’ll end up losing.

      • Second.

        I know one area that does not need to worry about terrorist bombings–Molenbeek. To paraphrase the late Chairman Mao;
        “The terorist must move amongst the people as a fish swims in the sea.”

      • When the liberals start demanding we “do something”

        ………” all the whores and politicians will look up and shout “Save us!”… and I’ll look down and whisper “No”

        When it get to the point they’re squealing for something to be done, that’s the time to do absolutely nothing. Because don’t interrupt the teachable moment

      • This sounds an awful lot like encrypted racial profiling to me.

        But I see a second problem. There really aren’t that many murders a year, even in Chicago.
        Obviously, the police should put more of their time in crimes that happen more often, like drug sales and jaywalking.
        Then they can make it up on volume.

        • Or bank robbery , only rich people who have money in the bank are harmed, and trying to hunt down the bank robbers will lead to the police making mistakes and give the bank robbers more power.

      • Alan, just because you don’t want to hear the truth doesn’t mean people will stop saying it. Most of your post is strange verbose kind of attack that says nothing. In the end you make a very wrong claim. Islam is not only compatible with western philosophies, it’s one reason we have them! The Christian world of the 1100s was NOT compatible with our notions of freedom, etc. It was the scholars of the Islamic rationalist school, brought into the West via Thomas Aquinas and others, that altered western thought. Alas, Islam came under the grip of the Ottomans and reactionary clerics who twisted the religion against the rationalism it had embraced. But it had embraced it and was for a time much more tolerant than the West. It can be that way again, just as Christianity can be either compatible or incompatible with our current views on freedom. Religion is what people make it. Islam is here, it’s part of the West, Muslims are patriotic Americans and believers of our values, and if you want to attack Islam it’s you that needs to, as you say, shut the hell up.

        • Quick scan, ah, good, there’s Aquinas – I knew he’d be in there.
          Same old same old.

          I have a suggestion, you might note the Calendar year is 2016 AD, not 1200 AD, so enough with what Islam was (if ever, but irrelevant anyway) – we’re dealing with what Islam is.

        • Islam is not only compatible with western philosophies, it’s one reason we have them!

          Again, you regurgitate the lie that the Western philosophy of the Greeks and Romans, stored in libraries of territory conquered by Muslims, came from Muslims.

          It originated in the West.

          • It came from Muslims as much as it did from Christians! Avicenna and Averroes interpreted the Koran in a way far more rational and western oriented than did Christians at the time. Aquinas and others learned from them, and in fact the Islamic world was far more advanced and rational than the Christian world – tolerant too. The point: no religion is inherently anti-western or anti-modern. Islam was once more advanced; now it has fallen behind. It can change again – after all, no one thinks Islam will disappear or be destroyed (and if one does, that person is in deep delusion). The key is to help today’s moderate, rational, modern Muslims reshape the religion – and American Muslims are on the leading edge of that effort.

          • What’s the percentage of them are leading a reform effort?
            Where’s your evidence?

            jpm100 has it nailed
            “You get to walk around all Pius in your circles and someone else, statistically, gets to die instead. How mighty brave of you.”

          • By the way, Elliot, I also taught a course “Islam and the West.” If I ever thought you really wanted to discuss the origins of different ideas and their history, I’d welcome it. But I suspect you are in this more for quick hit insults and avoidance of real substance. But just in case…

          • It came from Muslims as much as it did from Christians!

            Straw man. I referred to “Western” philosophy, not Christianity.

            It came from the West, originating long before the splinter of a Middle Eastern mythology took root in Europe.

            Islam was once more advanced….

            You keep weaving back and forth between culture and religion. They aren’t interchangeable.

            Yeah, sure, the quantum quantumness might randomly rearrange all the atoms such that tolerance and reason break out throughout what is now the Muslim world. Keep wishing on your magic rabbits foot.

            The key is to help today’s moderate, rational, modern Muslims reshape the religion….

            Find them, first.

          • Bertrand Russell from “The History of Western Philosophy”:

            “Arabic philosophy is not important as originally thought. Men like Avicenna and Averroes are essentially commentators. Speaking generally, the views of the more scientific philosophers come from Aristotle and the Neoplatonists in logic and metaphysics, from Galen in medicine, from Greek and Indian sources in mathematics and astronomy, and among mystics religious philosophy has also an admixture of old Persian beliefs. Writers in Arabic showed some originality in mathematics and in chemistry — in the latter case, as an incidental result of alchemical researches.

            Mohammedan civilization in its great days was admirable in the arts and in many technical ways, but it showed no capacity for independent speculation in theoretical matters. Its importance, which must not be underrated, is as a transmitter. Between ancient and modern European civilization, the dark ages intervened. The Mohammedans and the Byzantines, while lacking the intellectual energy required for innovation, preserved the apparatus of civilization — education, books, and learned leisure. Both stimulated the West when it emerged from barbarism — the Mohammedans chiefly in the thirteenth century, the Byzantines chiefly in the fifteenth. In each case the stimulus produced new thought better than any produced by the transmitters — in the one case scholasticism, in the other the Renaissance (which however had other causes also).”

          • And really. When was it more tolerant and for how long, and since it’s a series of loosely controlled satrapies (whatever) how wide spread was this tolerance, and exactly what was tolerated. Your glittering generalization is blinding people world wide . Put up some observable facts or shut up professor. We’re not your students and we don’t have to put up with your bulletin to get a grade.

            Finally, it isn’t tolerant NOW, so shut up.

          • Don’t forget slavery, the albatross put around the neck of white people, originated from Muslims who raided the primitive, non-Muslim tribes. They’re still practicing slavery in many Muslim countries. Boko Haram prompted liberals to hashtag like crazy, but the same liberals won’t say, “Islamic.”

            As Mark Steyn says:

            British Muslims Fear Repercussions Over Tomorrow’s Train Bombing

          • “Western philosophy” is irrelevant. Is ancient Greek “western” or since it informs both Muslim and western thought, is it a part of both? Most scholars see a strong link between the Islamic world and the West, in large part because of the Greek influence on both. Many see the “West” as first emerging in Rome, as they borrowed and joined Greek and Hebrew thought. As for culture and religion, history proves that religion is shaped by culture. In the US you have Christian clergy performing gay weddings and mixed races churches. Christianity did not allow that in the past. The Christian religion has radically modernized; 600 years ago it was more extreme than most Muslims in it’s conservatism. Islam as a religion has just as much openness to modernization, and Christianity has more brutality than Islam (unless you want to ditch the Old Testament, which you can’t really do). Cultures make religions what they are.

          • Slavery originated with the Muslims, Elliot? Uh, there is this book called the Bible. It has something called the Old Testament or the Jewish holy books. Guess what – not only is there slavery there, but God gives rules for how to treat slaves. That’s right – the Christian God condones slavery! Face it – the Islamic world was more advanced than the Christian world in every way until it gave the Christian world the gift of its knowledge, and then the Ottomans imposed a horrific military dictatorship that embraced stagnate conservative forms of Islam. But anyone who says Islam is incompatible with the West is not only ignorant, but a dangerous bigot who is working against reality. Islam is going to be part of Europe and the US – it’s growing. Muslims are patriotic, serve in the military, and in the West very often have modernized – proof Islam can! In Europe it’s European ghettoization that’s the problem. Islamophobia is ignorant fear, nothing more.

          • ” “Western philosophy” is irrelevant. Is ancient Greek “western” or since it informs both Muslim and western thought”

            It is to laugh. I am sure that learned scholar Mohammed (illiterate in all languages) was greatly informed by Greek philosophy. No doubt he and his companions studied the Greek philosopers in their local library or the local university with its well-traveled and sophisticated faculty. To this day that part of Saudi Arabia is well known for its intellectualism and sophistication.

            Muslim thought is informed by the Koran, the Hadith, and the Sunnah. Period. All else is the product of infidels and not to be considered.

          • Is ancient Greek “western”….

            Greece, part of Europe, is Western. Aristotle and Socrates form the basis of Western philosophy.

            The Abrahamic religions come from the Middle East and are not Western at root. The Reformation and similar major shifts were an attempt to fence off the influence of the church on political and civil matters.

            Western philosophy characteristically includes individualism. Humanism, while not exclusively Western, is rare among Eastern thought.

            As Greg Swann put it:

            There are few buildings large enough to contain all the books written about Islam by Westerners. By contrast, books written by Muslims about the West are very few in number, and virtually all of them are concerned with practical matters: Mastering a technology, or, especially, mastering the Western technology of war-making.

            From a Western perspective, Islam is amazingly incurious about the West–or about any alternatives to Islam. Said says as much: “[A]rabs have an incredibly poor knowledge and understanding of the US government and society.”

            How often have you seen the media publishing polls of foreigners giving their opinions on Americans or something to do with the United States, or the West, in general? In contrast, there are few, if any, polls by foreign media in which Americans are asked what they think of foreigners.

            …or since it informs both Muslim and western thought, is it a part of both?

            Show where Greek and Roman rationalism “informs” Muslim thought, outside of a few intellectuals centuries ago. Give examples of modern “Muslim thought” influenced by Greek/Roman rationalism.

            Many see the “West” as first emerging in Rome, as they borrowed and joined Greek and Hebrew thought.

            “Many see”? Nice ambiguous hand-waving.

            Western philosophy started with the Greeks. Aristotle and Socrates cannot be excluded as their influence is inseparable. The “Hebrew thought” only influenced the Romans after Constantine adopted Christianity as a means to pacify the masses.

            If anything, the Abrahamic traditions tainted Western rationalism, and slowed advancement.

            Islam as a religion has just as much openness to modernization….

            Don’t conflate technology, like cell phones and the internet, with enlightenment. A savage may be able to wear nice clothes and use modern gadgets, but he lacks the basic skills necessary to invent such things from scratch.

            …and Christianity has more brutality than Islam (unless you want to ditch the Old Testament, which you can’t really do).

            If you want to argue that Christians centuries ago were brutal comparable to modern Muslims, I’m not going to stop you.

            I just ask you to compare 21st century Westerners to 21st century Muslims.

            Slavery originated with the Muslims, Elliot?

            The Atlantic slave trade involved Europeans purchasing slaves from Muslim Arabs, who had been exporting slaves to India, the Middle East, and North Africa for many centuries before Europeans crossed the Atlantic.

            Uh, there is this book called the Bible. It has something called the Old Testament or the Jewish holy books. Guess what – not only is there slavery there, but God gives rules for how to treat slaves. That’s right – the Christian God condones slavery!

            Yes, and Christianity is an offshoot of Judaism. Eastern philosophies, filled with myth, tradition, and brutality.

            Westerners have gone through major transformations fencing off these religious traditions from rational behavior. When will the Muslim countries do likewise? When will women be treated decently in Muslim countries? Instead of becoming enlightened and civilized, Muslim immigrants in Europe are assaulting and raping European women who wear comfortable clothing. Some Europeans are knuckling under pressure, allowing Shariah courts and examining how they can accommodate the immigrants by dressing more modestly.

            They are going backwards from enlightenment, turning the calendar back centuries.

            Face it – the Islamic world was more advanced than the Christian world in every way until it gave the Christian world the gift of its knowledge….

            Again, the Greek/Roman philosophies were Western and the Muslims merely conquered lands in which libraries held this ancient knowledge. It wasn’t “its [Islamic] knowledge.” It was the plunder of Muslims, which eventually made its way back to Westerners.

            But anyone who says Islam is incompatible with the West is not only ignorant, but a dangerous bigot who is working against reality.

            You have it backwards. Western philosophy–individualism, humanism, and science–are incompatible with fundamentalist Islam. While Westerners will tolerate Muslims living in the West, the Muslims are frequently attempting to change the areas into which they move, pushing to roll back the calendar by centuries to ban free speech, “blasphemy”, apostasy, sexual freedom, freedom of dress, basic rights of women, etc..

            Islam is going to be part of Europe….

            Indeed, the piles of corpses and the ERs of raped Western women are testament to that.

            It’s only going to get worse as the demographics shift.

            Calendar, backwards, by centuries.

            Muslims are patriotic, serve in the military, and in the West very often have modernized – proof Islam can!

            A handful of people who don’t adhere to a strict interpretation of Islam don’t prove anything.

            Many of the radicals are second, third, or more generation residents, but they are turned by fundamentalists.

            In Europe it’s European ghettoization that’s the problem.

            Yes, it’s the fault of those women they got raped. It’s the fault of the travelers at airports and train stations they got bombed. They brought it on themselves.

            Islamophobia is ignorant fear, nothing more.

            A phobia is an irrational fear, most often borne by ignorance.

            When the leaders you cheer and support engage in Soviet style inversion of reality, insisting that the “Islamic State in Iraq and Syria” (ISIS) is not Islamic, and people of your ilk rush out after every massacre by Islamic terrorists to wring your hands about the backlash against Muslims which never happens, clearly the most irrational, ignorant behavior is on your side, not people like me who examine the actual text of the Koran, history, and current actions to make judgments.

          • Sorry about the blockquote not closing correctly. If the admins want to tweak it, I’d appreciate it.

          • Is ancient Greek “western”….

            Greece, part of Europe, is Western. Aristotle and Socrates form the basis of Western philosophy.

            The Abrahamic religions come from the Middle East and are not Western at root. The Reformation and similar major shifts were an attempt to fence off the influence of the church on political and civil matters.

            Western philosophy characteristically includes individualism. Humanism, while not exclusively Western, is rare among Eastern thought.

            As Greg Swann put it:

            There are few buildings large enough to contain all the books written about Islam by Westerners. By contrast, books written by Muslims about the West are very few in number, and virtually all of them are concerned with practical matters: Mastering a technology, or, especially, mastering the Western technology of war-making.

            From a Western perspective, Islam is amazingly incurious about the West–or about any alternatives to Islam. Said says as much: “[A]rabs have an incredibly poor knowledge and understanding of the US government and society.”

            How often have you seen the media publishing polls of foreigners giving their opinions on Americans or something to do with the United States, or the West, in general? In contrast, there are few, if any, polls by foreign media in which Americans are asked what they think of foreigners.

            …or since it informs both Muslim and western thought, is it a part of both?

            Show where Greek and Roman rationalism “informs” Muslim thought, outside of a few intellectuals centuries ago. Give examples of modern “Muslim thought” influenced by Greek/Roman rationalism.

            Many see the “West” as first emerging in Rome, as they borrowed and joined Greek and Hebrew thought.

            “Many see”? Nice ambiguous hand-waving.

            Western philosophy started with the Greeks. Aristotle and Socrates cannot be excluded as their influence is inseparable. The “Hebrew thought” only influenced the Romans after Constantine adopted Christianity as a means to pacify the masses.

            If anything, the Abrahamic traditions tainted Western rationalism, and slowed advancement.

            Islam as a religion has just as much openness to modernization….

            Don’t conflate technology, like cell phones and the internet, with enlightenment. A savage may be able to wear nice clothes and use modern gadgets, but he lacks the basic skills necessary to invent such things from scratch.

            …and Christianity has more brutality than Islam (unless you want to ditch the Old Testament, which you can’t really do).

            If you want to argue that Christians centuries ago were brutal comparable to modern Muslims, I’m not going to stop you.

            I just ask you to compare 21st century Westerners to 21st century Muslims.

            Slavery originated with the Muslims, Elliot?

            The Atlantic slave trade involved Europeans purchasing slaves from Muslim Arabs, who had been exporting slaves to India, the Middle East, and North Africa for many centuries before Europeans crossed the Atlantic.

            Uh, there is this book called the Bible. It has something called the Old Testament or the Jewish holy books. Guess what — not only is there slavery there, but God gives rules for how to treat slaves. That’s right — the Christian God condones slavery!

            Yes, and Christianity is an offshoot of Judaism. Eastern philosophies, filled with myth, tradition, and brutality.

            Westerners have gone through major transformations fencing off these religious traditions from rational behavior. When will the Muslim countries do likewise? When will women be treated decently in Muslim countries? Instead of becoming enlightened and civilized, Muslim immigrants in Europe are assaulting and raping European women who wear comfortable clothing. Some Europeans are knuckling under pressure, allowing Shariah courts and examining how they can accommodate the immigrants by dressing more modestly.

            They are going backwards from enlightenment, turning the calendar back centuries.

            Face it — the Islamic world was more advanced than the Christian world in every way until it gave the Christian world the gift of its knowledge….

            Again, the Greek/Roman philosophies were Western and the Muslims merely conquered lands in which libraries held this ancient knowledge. It wasn’t “its [Islamic] knowledge.” It was the plunder of Muslims, which eventually made its way back to Westerners.

            But anyone who says Islam is incompatible with the West is not only ignorant, but a dangerous bigot who is working against reality.

            You have it backwards. Western philosophy–individualism, humanism, and science–are incompatible with fundamentalist Islam. While Westerners will tolerate Muslims living in the West, the Muslims are frequently attempting to change the areas into which they move, pushing to roll back the calendar by centuries to ban free speech, “blasphemy”, apostasy, sexual freedom, freedom of dress, basic rights of women, etc..

            Islam is going to be part of Europe….

            Indeed, the piles of corpses and the ERs of raped Western women are testament to that.

            It’s only going to get worse as the demographics shift.

            Calendar, backwards, by centuries.

            Muslims are patriotic, serve in the military, and in the West very often have modernized — proof Islam can!

            A handful of people who don’t adhere to a strict interpretation of Islam don’t prove anything.

            Many of the radicals are second, third, or more generation residents, but they are turned by fundamentalists.

            In Europe it’s European ghettoization that’s the problem.

            Yes, it’s the fault of those women they got raped. It’s the fault of the travelers at airports and train stations they got bombed. They brought it on themselves.

            Islamophobia is ignorant fear, nothing more.

            A phobia is an irrational fear, most often borne by ignorance.

            When the leaders you cheer and support engage in Soviet style inversion of reality, insisting that the “Islamic State in Iraq and Syria” (ISIS) is not Islamic, and people of your ilk rush out after every massacre by Islamic terrorists to wring your hands about the backlash against Muslims which never happens, clearly the most irrational, ignorant behavior is on your side, not people like me who examine the actual text of the Koran, history, and current actions to make judgments.

        • “The Christian world of the 1100s was NOT compatible with our notions of freedom, etc.”

          So what? We don’t live in the 1100s.

          “It was the scholars of the Islamic rationalist school, brought into the West via Thomas Aquinas and others, that altered western thought”

          Horsefeathers. But again, even if true, so what? We still don’t live in the 1100s. Today, Christian Western civilization is incompatible with Islam. Just ask the ;Saudis, the Iranians, etc.

          You might even try actually reading about Islam. something other than handouts from CAIR, of course. I can recommend at least a couple of books I found in my Community College library. I am sure that your “University” has a couple of books on the subject, too.

          “it’s one reason we have them!”

          Of course, since the West was just a tabula rasa, devoid of any intellectual thought or history of its own.

          • So what? We don’t live in the 1100s.

            Some of us apparently don’t even live on this planet.

    • You are dead right Scott. You should not fear anything because you live in a small American town, with a very high native white population, do not frequent massive public gatherings, crowded malls or metro centers, etc. You have nothing at all to be concerned about.

      However, those of us living in European capitals, who frequently fly and move around large gatherings, have seen literally millions of undocumented refugees flood in from Syria to Afghanistan knowing full well that Isis has infiltrated a large number of agents among them. What have we seen? Everything from gang rapes to slaughter. Maybe you should be advising the officials who put Brussels under lock-down and the military on the streets to not “fear” anything and just carry on as normal. When was your town last under lock-down Scott?

      It isn’t fear, Scott. It isn’t an American thing, Scott. It is anger at the complete ineptness of the ruling class to avoid a total clusterf**k that everyone can see is going to carry on for years to come.

      • “It is anger at the complete ineptness of the ruling class to avoid a total clusterf**k that everyone can see is going to carry on for years to come.”
        His first instinct here was to dash in with useless platitudes and soothe the natives and their unreasoning fear.

        Aside from the fact that as McQ pointed out the usual people will freak out and demand ‘safety’, the same social circles Scott waltzes in will, as soon as it sinks in this will interfere with their upcoming trip to Paris, and probably make the wait time in Customs just annoyingly long, and they won’t be able to bring their favorite shampoo in their carry on.

        Oh, and #Peace! and #jesuisBrussels! and #Teddybearshatebombs and #Islamdidntdoit

      • Every year I lead a travel course to Europe. I was in Italy in February, and will be in Germany in May. I visit Europe at least two weeks every year, including major airports and sites. I daresay I’m in more danger than most Americans. Yet that danger is small, and I’m not afraid. Fear is a poor adviser. Anger is also misplaced, ISIS is weaker now than it used to be, but you know – as long as people are extremist and violent, they will now and then attack. No leader or policy can make it impossible. The good news we’re winning, ISIS is in decline – and ISIS kills far more Muslims than it kills westerners – and Muslims are the main enemy of ISIS. Yes, take precautions, as I noted. But fear is not a legitimate reaction, it gives in to what the terrorists want. Be stronger than that, DocD. I know all about the reality of ISIS in Europe and Syria, Iraq, etc. – I research it daily since I make it a part of what I teach. That knowledge reinforces the irrationality of fear.

        • Oh, and this year a day trip from Koeln to Brussels is planned!

          • Hope ISIS has the same itinerary

          • And if I mention that in the last year I’ve been to Egypt, Russia and Iran on business that prove … what exactly?

            You do realize we aren’t a bunch of giggling co-eds easily impressed by a trip to Belgium?

          • Because, silly boy, I slam dunked your claim that I only had no fear because I lived far away from the action and thus was not in danger. *chuckle*

          • Very good Kareem. Nice slamdunk. Whatever.

          • Yep, that was a slamdunk there Scott, yessir.

            Your trip proves you’re brave in the same way that getting on the highway proves your brave because you don’t think you’ll get in an accident.

            In other words – it doesn’t.
            You’re depending on everyone around you to protect you. That’s fair enough, it’s their job.
            But they’re working 20 times harder at it right now while you flounce around telling everyone to remain calm because it’s completely safe.

          • You’re – sigh

          • He did seem to miss where I said “frequently” fly, as if anyone has ever missed his mentioning at every possible juncture his one or two junkets per year to the same fricking place. I guess that is frequent if you’re from the backwoods and get to put on your good shoes once a year for a trip out of the hills. I was thinking more along the lines of at least once a month to more than one destination.

          • In the end grim reality will prevail, and it will just be yet another thing Scott Erb, PhD was wrong about.

          • Gee, I was right about the Iraq war, and most issues that have been decided, Alan. My track record is pretty good. The one time I was shown to be wrong was in March 2010 I thought the Democrats would hold the house come November. I was ridiculed mercilessly for that. Funny, though, when McQ on the night before the 2012 election thought “atmospherics” suggested Romney would win, no one had the same ridicule for him. A bit of a bias, per chance? 🙂 You want to see some kind of ‘war of civilizations’ but ISIS is a last gasp of a dying extremist cult whose victims are mostly Muslim because it’s fighting against change that’s sweeping across the Islamic world. You can’t defeat Islam – heck, the US got taught a humiliating lesson in Iraq. Rather, keep with what’s no working – ISIS is weaker and we will defeat it. Now I’ll leave this thread – too much real stuff to do. Have the last word, call me names, etc. Ciao ragazzi! (Tempted to write ragazze, but that wouldn’t be nice…)

          • Scott-

            You don’t quite understand yet that consequences ARE coming, do you?

          • No Scott, it’s not the ‘war’ that was the problem.
            The ‘war’ went very well. We’re really really good at that part.
            It was the ‘peace’ that was flawed.

            Let’s talk about Arab Spring shall we? How about Libya? How about Occupy Wall Street – you know the great ‘counter tea party revolution’, Barack Obama being one of the greats, and Iran, and Syria, and powerless Russia.
            You’ve been wrong too many times to keep track of, those were just off the top of my head.

            No one likes being wrong, but you, you have a psychosis about being right and needing to be right.

        • I research it daily since I make it a part of what I teach.

          Have you tried living it? Are you being deliberately obtuse? Why do you ascribe anything to an irrational fear as if that magics away all else?

          This is not about anger toward or fear of ISIS. This is about people seeing their governments lie to them straight in the face about the refugee situation. They have been caught out covering up the extent of crimes committed by newly arrived refugees. Lying about how much the flood of people will impact housing, education, health services. Watching as ungrateful refugees demand housing in cities when they can’t get accommodation for their own children. Having to make sure their daughters behave in a most unwestern fashion in case it inflames the passions of some new arrivals. The list goes on and on.

          The anger is not misplaced as people knew full well what was happening and what would happen. The anger is primarily because of the impact on the way of life and not about ISIS. But to be sure the gross incompetence displayed in knocking over Libya and encouraging discord in Syria and failing to secure it adds fuel to the flames.

        • [oops, last comment got cut-off]

          More is to come. Hundreds of ISIS agents have come into Europe with the flood of refugees. What we have seen is only the start, the Brussels attack was done early because the leader was arrested and the rest feared capture. Imagine now the incandescent anger there will be when a school is attacked and dozens of children murdered.

          You rabbit on about your junkets in Europe all the time, but you seem to know very little about how an average European feels about all this. In fact you sound awfully like what our political class has been saying for the last few years as the situation continually erodes into a debacle.

          In the long run ISIS may be defeated in some fashion. However in the short run people are going to die. Needlessly. If you cannot imagine why people are angry, and justifiably so, then you really are living in a fantasy world up there in Whitebreadville.

          • Geeze man, you live there so, obviously, Erp knows more because he covers it in class.
            How can you even pretend you know more about it?
            He studies this stuff!

            /sarcasm

          • Obviously I don’t know shit, having been an immigrant here for over 13 years. It takes about that long to recognize the lines told by newspapers versus that by the political class versus what you see daily versus what people say. If you don’t have that understanding you’ll never understand a people. Nowadays people will tell me what they really think over a drink and even for the most liberal it is a uniformly pessimistic view. They won’t relate this to outsiders and even I act the same way now. The Prof has never lived it.

            It is quaint to be lectured on how Europeans feel by Prof “I travel you know, maybe even twice a year to Italy darling”. I’ve been to Texas many many times over the last ten years and have good friends there. But do I have an understanding of how they really feel about things, what the differences between what they tell me and what they think are? No, you bet your ass I don’t. And do you think I’d deign to tell them how Texas works? I understand the consequences of that well enough 😉 Scott is no more than a wannabe member of the political class and understands other people about as poorly as they all do.

    • You’re saying the chance of getting killed by a terrorist attack is so low, you can take the alleged moral high ground of doing nothing and chances are someone else, someone you probably don’t know, with die because of it.

      You get to walk around all Pius in your circles and someone else, statistically, gets to die instead. How mighty brave of you.

      • Scott’s next argument… the death rate due to gunshots in the USA is much lower than the auto-accident rate, and is mostly black-on-black gang related. So as a white dude living in the backwoods in whitebreadville, no problems, no need for gun control.

        Nah, I didn’t think so either.

      • Reading comprehension exam: Where did I say do nothing? I’m saying be rational, rather than emotional. I’m saying defeat ISIS without making the mistakes made in places like Iraq, and recognizing that we do hold the winning hand. It’s not being pious, it’s being rational.

        • The principle is, you take the war to them and fight on their soil, so you don’t have to fight it at home.

          • Like in Iraq – how did that go? Oh yeah, US involvement aided terrorist recruitment, lead to a massive anti-war movement at home, and ultimately the US had to leave – President Bush recognized the futility of the situation. You gotta learn from history, man, it would be idiotic to go over to the Mideast in massive numbers. It would divide and weaken the US (remember Vietnam and Iraq), and we’d get stuck far away in a quagmire. Look at what we’re doing – IT IS WORKING. ISIS kills far more Muslims than westerners. Muslims are defeating ISIS. We’re playing an effective support role. You would snatch defeat from the arms of victory.

          • Well, up until the point where we decided we could make them a democracy, it went pretty well.
            Then it went sideways, exactly like Libya.

            And if you think that was a massive anit-war movement you must have been about 2 during the late 60’s AND you are demonstrably not in a position to lecture anyone about learning from history.

            The Vietnam movement was massive, the anti Iraq war movement was barely a pep rally in comparison.

            And no, asshat, it’s not working – if it was working they wouldn’t be shipping refugees to Europe, and wouldn’t be blowing things up because they’d never get out of the Middle East to do it.
            ISIS was degraded by Russia, not by our low level bombing campaign and support for people that are different from ISIS only in that they are just collecting weapons, training and money from us to use on us later as opposed to ISIS who’s trying to do it now.
            You don’t follow the news do you sparky. The failed trainees, the money and weapons that are showing up in the wrong hands.
            Clearly you’re running off the latest spin from the White House, based on what you write.

            And Iraq was more of a mud hole, not a quagmire.
            Again, you were either too young, or have no grasp of history, to compare Vietnam to Iraq in terms of scale and quaggyness.
            You were probably whacking spinny toys with your saliva covered hands in your jumpy seat when they were reading McNamara’s daily ‘score’ on the nightly news during Vietnam, year after year.
            While dickheads like Bill Ayers blew up science buildings and ROTC offices on campuses and students “sat in”, marched, burned their draft cards and marched in massive numbers.
            I remember it quite well and we didn’t even have 24 hour news channels.
            NO. COMPARISON.

          • “a massive anti-war movement a”

            LOL. Like the “massive” depths of your intellect. Do you actually look at anything other than handouts?

            “IT IS WORKING”

            More laughter.

          • “Like in Iraq – how did that go?”

            Answer to “Was Operation Iraqi Freedom a strategic blunder or a strategic victory?”.

        • Ah, you’re got the Obama plan down – “don’t do stupid sh*t” – which translates to “don’t do anything”.

          You’re not rational Scott, you’re like a mission statement, a lot of fancy words that have no meaning.

        • I should have said ‘nothing of value’ which is effectively nothing.

    • STFU.

    • Answers to “What were President Bush’s alternatives with Iraq?” and “Why did Bush leave the ‘containment’ (status quo)?”.
      Answer to “Did Bush allow enough time for the inspections?” and “Did Iraq failing its compliance test justify the regime change?”.

  • It’s all Bushs fault right?

    Or is it Trumps fault?

    Either way I’m thrilled it didn’t stop Pres. Mom Jeans from watching the ballgame with his bestest buddy Bernie…..er Raul Castro

    • Hey he gave almost a full minute of his laser like focus! Why the hell don’t you people have it solved yet!
      Mr smartest man, almost destroyed Al Queda and ISIL. DAMMIT! He got Osama! What! Does he have do THIS too?!!
      He has a legacy to secure, dictators to hobnob with, Iranians to arm with nukes and illegal aliens to make citizens.

      Now watch him do this next wave with Faoul Raoul!

  • It’s hard to keep up with all the events of this breaking and fast paced story so can someone let me know – did a loser with a piano show up and start playing “Imagine”? Has James Taylor been dusted off yet? Oh my god, I plain forgot the hashtag……WHAT’S THE HASHTAG FOR HEAVEN’S SAKE?!?!?!

    • There are a few you can use
      #Hugaradical,
      #Religionofpeace

      or my favorite
      #dontfeartheIslam

      “Come on baby…don’t fear the Islam”

      I’m trying to get a crowdfunding thing going to get a Scott to lead a group to the Levant with a stock of suffed Teddybears, some 12 hour candles and cash to buy as many fresh flowers as are available.
      We need to set up a memorial to Brussels in their midst so they understand how hurtful their actions are.

      • I’m calling to defeat ISIS with rational, effective tools – but not to give in to fear. You respond with silly irrational attacks. I think that explains a lot.

        • Good, you can’t see the difference between mockery and”silly irrational attacks”

          You’re really not very bright are you skippy.

        • And no – what YOU’RE doing is repeating the words “rational effective tools” like a witch doctor shaking a rattle.

        • What tools? “Strategic Patience”?

          • Or focused serious speechifying followed by some red lines drawn with disappearing ink.

      • Are we all doing Facebook avatars overlaid with Belgium flag colors this time? whats our avatar color scheme for this tragedy?

      • Again, I second.

  • If our Community Agitator-in-chief can’t utter the words: “Islamic Terrorism”, then what’s the point in even talking about this until we can get an actual World Leader in office?
    He all but said (in 51 seconds) it’s our fault the mooslimbs hate us. We don’t love then enough…
    What can you possibly say to counter that spat of verbal diarrhea?

    The best thought I’ve heard: Identify those terrorist supporting countries and declare war on them partnering with NATO, ask all the Muslim countries to join forces, see who does, or does not choose to participate. Now we will know in spades which Muslim countries are serious about ending violence and living in peace and which are on a death wish.

    Also, we will then learn which NATO countries are serious about securing their own Freedom and Liberty and which are too cowardly. If, as has been the case so far, everything is left up to us, then what use is NATO other then another financial drain on our economy.

  • WaPo declares Obama the lamest of lame duck Presidents.

    The horror in Brussels is a rebuke to Trump’s foreign policy

    • I was unaware Trump actually conducted any foreign policy. How many Ambassadors report to Mar-a-Lago?

      Anything to keep Obama from getting any blame I suppose. May as well blame the next terror attack on Abbot and Costello.

      • He conducts his foreign policy like he leads–from his behind.

        • Libya. Return to the status it held during the 1970s, when it was a Soviet client and stronghold of terrorist training and encampment.

      • Blame for Obama? Perish the thought. He’s busy in Argentina, honoring the victims of the dictatorships there. Not a word about the victims of dictatorship in Cuba, though.

  • Start at 8:00 minutes on who and what ISIS is…

    http://www.c-span.org/video/?328702-4/michael-weiss-isis

  • Here – it takes a British female pop star I guess – here’s the proper response for this:

    ” You’re on, you f***ers'”

    And the right hashtag #F***theterrorists.

    Anger, not fear.

  • “The Terror Network” by Claire Sterling, from 1980 and about terrorism in Europe in the 1970s, is a good guide to understanding what is happening now, with ISIS.

  • More importantly what can we do about it … without giving up more liberty and freedoms?

    Well the outcome will be security checks outside airports etc as they do in many other countries. Scanning baggage as you enter airport terminals, only passengers allowed through to check-in etc. I passed through Frankfurt airport (in transit) on the weekend and there were noticeably more police with machine guns than usual even with the refugee crisis. Clearly it was known something was going to go down somewhere.

    But the attacks will then move to even softer targets. Malls, schools, etc. In Europe there are already dozens of ISIS operatives arrived with the “refugees” and so far only a few dead. If you imagine what a determined and not too bright fellow like Breivik did alone in Norway you can imagine what will happen here soon with a large network of suicidal terrorists operating in sympathetic communities.

    • You can move the congestion around, but there will still be congestion. As long as they target people and not things there will be no lack of soft targets. Unlike poseurs like Bill Ayers, these people are serious.

  • I think we’re all dancing around the basic issue: the current Islamic terrorists are today’s Kamikaze pilots.
    They assembled the bombs, woke up on the last day, took a ride to their ‘target’ all the while knowing their hours on earth were numbered.
    All they were interested in was hitting the biggest target they could and kill as many Westerners as they could.

    How did we ultimately defeat the original Kamikazes’? Well we know how….and it took two bombs to do it.
    Might take more this time: the only question is where to drop them.

    • The critical mass of the enemy is demographic. We’re already importing casbahs at a fantastic rate and the Europeans, despite the results they are getting, are continuing at a fantastic rate. Did you happen to catch Keith Ellison, the Muslim member of the House from Minnesota, on Morning Joe today? Mika Brzezinski played right into him and he played right into her. Out of that exchange came his unchallenged claim that the hardline national security expert Frank Gaffney is a “David Duke” because so says the Southern Poverty Law Center. Unchallenged.

      • ‘Did you happen to catch Keith Ellison, the Muslim member of the House from Minnesota, on Morning Joe today? ‘

        The de rigueur articles on the sufferings of ‘Muslims’ here in the US as a result of the bombings and deaths in Europe are already being rolled out.

        The only way I can think to arrest the spread is to prevent immigration at this point, and hope that American culture influences the ones who are here enough to reject the misogynistic, anti-democratic aspects of the religion.
        Every other method I thought of would require us to blow big holes in the Constitution, Freedom of Assembly, Freedom of Religion, Freedom of speech, 4th Amendment protections, etc.

        But the current administrations plan is to Cloward Piven the country into accepting all the illegals, and Islam by colonization.

        • Reading that article and the comments almost- almost- makes me want to root for ISIS. Lots of people will only learn the hard way

          read that article and you see why Trump has a real shot at winning it all

        • And then there is this;

          “The Kent, Washington school district has changed their food options and removed all pork products, in order to accommodate Muslim dietary needs according to a frustrated parent.”

          https://creepingsharia.wordpress.com/2016/03/23/washington-kent-school-district-removes-pork-from-menus-to-appease-muslims/

          If I recall correctly, Jewish dietary laws also forbid the consumption of pork, yet there have been no complaints from that quarter. They just order something else to eat. Only Muslims demand that everyone obey their religion. I don’t have much hope that they will reject any part of their religion.

  • This is a brief piece by Theodore Dalrymple, who is a Brit but lives in France, and who is a long time observer of Europe’s suicide, writing on the Muslim ghetto in Brussels known as Molenbeek. Note what happened to the Germans — end of final paragraph — when they tried to prevent the formation of more ghettos like this in Germany.

    http://www.city-journal.org/html/molenbeek-problem-14307.html