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We can’t afford to lose the propaganda war
Posted by: McQ on Wednesday, August 02, 2006

I've been banging around the edges in recent days about the importance of propaganda in general and its application in particular concerning the current battle between Israel and Hezbollah.

Tony Blankley does an excellent job today of addressing the importance of propaganda in forming opinions and how those opinions can have a far reaching and unwanted effect. The setup:
And it is vital to understand that while world opinion may be just the random collective judgment of mankind — it is usually not random, but rather, in part at least, a propaganda-manipulated opinion.

Currently, the United States and Israel find themselves confronting a world opinion that is being shaped and manipulated by unfriendly others, and by the residue of historic malevolence, including: Hezbollah propaganda, European anti-Americanism and anti-Israelism, Muslim anti-Semitism, historic European anti-Semitism, and a mainstream world media that is tropistic to the foregoing factors.
Some attempts are crude. Some quite sophisticated. Some are short-term efforts. Some are very long-term efforts. Most of the efforts attempt to exploit prejudices. Because the charges tend to be sensational and thus newsworthy the world media's attraction to reporting it is as natural as its existence.

So what effect does the constant drumbeat of negative opinion have? Well I'll be the first to admit that for the most part I had adopted the Kos "screw 'em" attitude about what others might think of us. However, watching the developing situation in the ME and Blankley's article have me seriously reconsidering that stance. Here's why:
But over time, we ignore world opinion at our peril. World opinion tends — to some extent— to shape American voter opinion. And voter opinion tends to shape American politician's opinion. Thus over time world opinion may weaken American will to defend itself against the amorphous but deadly Islamist virus.

Also, to the extent that defeating radical Islamism is enhanced by winning the hearts and minds of so far non-radical Muslims, corrosive world opinion against us only deepens the deep hole in which we currently find ourselves. America needs to get a lot better, fast, at the propaganda war that we are losing by default in the court of world public opinion. During the Cold War we spent billions and employed our smartest people to fight and win the propaganda war. Today, we are hors de combat.
Both of those points I've emboldened are critical. We, for whatever reason, have a burning desire, as a nation, to be liked. A certain segment of our population reacts negatively (and politically) to world condemnation. As Blankley points out, that eventually ends up with voters influencing the nation's political direction by electing politicians who reflect - or change to reflect - their desires in this regard. That obviously could have an eventual detrimental effect on our national policy and direction if they're elected.

So Blankley is right. To some extent we must be aware of and sensitive too world opinion. But more importantly, we too must wage an effective propaganda war. And I mean it in the most positive sense of the word. We continue to ignore it at out peril. As mentioned previously, with a savvy and ruthless opponent taking every opportunity to play to the prejudices of the world through propaganda, we're well behind the power curve and beginning to suffer badly from the results.

In the past we've turned our nose up at propaganda use, unconsciously likening it to the lies propagated by Nazi Germany or the USSR. We have a moral bias against its use. It seems, well, unseemly. But that's unilateral disarmament in a very important aspect of this war. Our enemies have no such moral hesitation to use any method available to tear us down and hopefully manipulate national opinion to their advantage. They're patient and persistent.

As Blankely points out, we must realize the corrosive effect their propaganda is having on world opinion and the effect world opinion is having on our political opinion and direction. We can no longer afford to leave enemy propaganda unanswered.
 
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Sounds great. But it’s August, a terrible time to start a new ad campaign. Let’s do lunch in late November, and in the meantime stay the course - it’s been working so well so far. Full speed ahead!
 
Written By: Andy Card
URL: http://
How do we get Al Franken and Air America to buy into this campaign.

Seriously - given the post below about Ranger McBeth, and the fact that the reporter admitted it was what he wanted to hear....how do you get the western media to stop hearing what they want and focus more on what we want said (Beat back the Hun!).

Also, how do you handle cases like Haditha ( the latest press says Naval investigators conclude there was a massacre after all) where our forces get bad press (justly so) for doing, once in a great while, exactly what Hezbollah, Hamas, or the Iraqi insurgency does every day (kill civilians).

This goes back to the post you made a few days ago, how do you get the press to change the paradigm and stop this shrugging of shoulders when the terror/insurgency groups behave like the barbarians they are?

How do you stop the press from making the link between a Haditha, and the current administration and treating it as if Bush, et al forced the marines to kill those civilians (that’ll be coming out again shortly if it hasn’t already).

Given that the government doesn’t actually run the media, and given that a great number of them have only scorn for the current administration, I’m afraid we can’t win the propaganda war.
 
Written By: looker
URL: http://
Maybe the neo-cohens could stop bombing children? I think that would be a great PR campaign!

Americans don’t need more propagandizing, we need *less*.
 
Written By: Thees
URL: http://
Perhaps "they" aren’t the only ones feeding us propaganda. Perhaps, all we see is propaganda be it from Israel, Hezbolla, Washington or Tehran.

Your mindless echoing of the party line is appropriate to Tony Snow. It is not to an allegedly Libertarian blogger. Where is your skeptisism?
 
Written By: cindyb
URL: http://
Brilliant post Thees, especially that little shot at the Jews. Neo-cohens ... cute. I mean we all know the cabal of the learned elders of zion control the media and the money. On second thought, gosh, gee they really control the whole darned world now that I think about it. That must be why they enjoy letting psychopathic terrorists rain high explosives down on their own women and children in Israel. Golly geez, they sure had me hornswoggled. Thanks for putting me straight.
 
Written By: The Poet Omar
URL: http://
Your mindless echoing of the party line is appropriate to Tony Snow. It is not to an allegedly Libertarian blogger. Where is your skeptisism?
My skepticism was found in thinking we really didn’t need to concern ourselves with world opinion.

Tell you what, show me where I’m "mindlessly echoing the party line" when I come down on the side of countering and winning a propaganda war any more than I would be "mindlessly echoing the party line" if I came down for winning a shooting war.

Even better, show me where the "party line" even addresses countering and winning a propaganda war.

OK?
 
Written By: McQ
URL: http://www.qando.net/blog
McQ, you know I’m sort of conflicted on this issue. I feel the same natural revulsion toward propaganda that you mention. It does have a certain feel of "bad guy" to it. At the same time, I think you are absolutely right that in the war of words that is being waged (and that is actively influencing world opinion), we are losing badly.

I’m not really sure where to start with a solution on this. The deck is stacked against us to a certain extent. Western Europeans and, to a lesser extent, Scandinavians, have an in-built anti-Americanism that defies logical explanation. We could point to simple jealousy, the whole "ugly American" syndrome, national rivalries dating back to the 18th century, etc. There are innumerable explanations for the concept of anti-Americanism, none of which provide adequate reasons for the phenomenon and certainly provide no solution. Latin America has always been a bit of a never-ending revolution. Due to economic circumstances, nation histories, and religious orientation, they are a natural target market for Marxist-Socialist exapansion. Not much help there. The Middle East’s history defines it and its attitudes. Islamofascim is all the rage there these days and nothing the US does or does not do is going to improve attitudes (we can continue to make them worse, but we cannot improve them). Even if the United States directly annihilated Israel tomorrow, we would still be hated in the ME. The old Soviet states are a mess right now and I suspect there is still some lingering anti-American sentiment leftover from the bad old days of KGB control. Again, not much help.

The only inroads that I see us making, as concerns world opinion, are sub-Saharn Africa, South and Southeast Asia and Eastern Europe. I think that we have done a fine job, so far, of supporting and building relations with our friends in the newly (relatively) liberated Slavic states of Eastern Europe. These folks still have fresh memories of the tyranny of Marxist-Socialist thought and remember the US as the great opponent of Communism (how little they know about our domestic politics). I think we are going in the right direction here. Africa is a mell of a hess as my grandmother used to say, but these are basically good people who haven’t really had a chance to develop due to numerous factors (internecine warfare, religious disputes, European colonialism, etc.). Teaching them how to develop stable economies will go a long way to developing stable, thriving democracies in the region. The one big place that we could be building bridges, but aren’t is South and Southeast Asia. Yes, we had the whole India treaty thing. This is too little, too late. We should have done this five or ten years ago. Also, we haven’t done much in the way of bridge building with Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia, Singapore (remember the Clinton caneing thing), Myanmar, Mirconesia, etc. These are all potential great allies that we are squandering by failing to develop cross-cultural and economic ties.

Yes, maybe we do need more "propaganda," media support, and psy-ops, but in addition, we need to be concentrating on the basics of diplomatic and cultural bridge buidling. This is something that neither the current President, nor Clinton, nor Bush I, or, for that matter, the State department seem terribly concerned with.
 
Written By: The Poet Omar
URL: http://
The Grandchildren of the Jews that supported and covered up for Stalin in the media they owned, still have heavy ownership of those media resources, and have embarked on a Leftist course to discredit American soldiers, America, and Bush at every opportunity while attempting to conceal the barbarity of the radical Islamist enemy. The least they could do for their communist ancestors, I guess. A big reason we are losing the propaganda war is the Jewish Left, for reasons only it understands, has become the champion of "enemy rights" and defending the "human rights" of terrorists against the "morally bankrupt" infidels.

Another media cover-up emerged with the Landmark Legal Foundation pursuing complaints of volunteer soldiers (who the media owners and Left of COURSE - support) that the media had decided on ignoring what evil things the captured terrorists do at GITMO and focus exclusively on the beastiality of American troops. LLF got the AP to finally reveal that in 2 1/2 years, 440 attacks occured on American reservists doing GITMO duty. Our women are preferred targets of urine, feces, semen and vomit "cocktails" thrown at their faces. Any implement is made into a weapon if possible. Guards, especially women, are routinely verbally abused by the enemy, subjected to death threats, their children’s deaths, rape, called the "c8*T bitches". And the gals there, like all Americans serving - have no recourse as prisoner verbal abuse doesn’t count as "an attack". That is what Landmark Legal Foundation reported that the media has worked hard to conceal.

Ralph Peters, who likely does not share views I express about Jews in the media and Congress doing "enemy rights" advocacy, says this:
THE demands to shut down our Guantanamo lock-up for terrorists have nothing to do with human rights. They’re about punishing America for our power and success.

From our ailing domestic left to overseas America haters, no one really cares about the fate of Mustapha the Murderer or Ahmed the Assassin. The lies told about Gitmo are meant to undercut U.S. foreign policy and embarrass America.
(The concealing of what the detainees do is meant to make them more sympathetic.)

The Gitmo controversy is about many things, from jealousy of the United States and outrage that we refuse to fail, to residual anger that we won the Cold War and exploded the left’s great fantasy of a dictatorship of the intellectuals. But the one thing the protests aren’t about is human rights.
Barbara Boxer, Russ Feingold, Dick Durbin, Chuck Schumer, the ACLU, the Sulzberger Family and Arlen Spector would be "nauseated" by what I would like to see happen at Gitmo. Any terrorist that attacks a guard would be beaten until they blubber like a little baby, tossed back in their cell, their Koran taken away and gourmet meals denied, and have a bucket of pig excrement dumped on them, and wear it until they apologize.

Never, in any war, have our troops had to take such extreme abuse from bona fide POWs, let alone unlawful combatants customarily summarily executed.

We might have in WWII, but Hitler made the mistake of attacking Stalin, which then put the media and liberal Jews on our side. Before that, Stalins Pact with Hitler had them vehemently opposed to helping Britain and France out.



 
Written By: C. Ford
URL: http://
Perhaps "they" aren’t the only ones feeding us propaganda. Perhaps, all we see is propaganda be it from Israel, Hezbolla, Washington or Tehran
Or from ABC, CNN, NBC, NYTimes, etc etc etc.

 
Written By: shark
URL: http://
The Grandchildren of the Jews that supported and covered up for Stalin in the media they owned, still have heavy ownership of those media resources, and have embarked on a Leftist course to discredit American soldiers, America, and Bush at every opportunity while attempting to conceal the barbarity of the radical Islamist enemy.
This Jew thing of yours is getting a little tiresome. It also smacks of a generational grand conspiracy which, of course, is preposterous.

The media is what it is. I think what it reports reflects more of the type of people attracted to it than any particular religious or ethnic group.
 
Written By: McQ
URL: http://www.qando.net/blog
Ah yes, the jooooooos again.
American Jooooos hating Israeli Joooos and controlling the media covering for the terrorists who hate America and the Joooosss.

A world full of us goyim powerless to prevent it and taken in by all the lies.

"Oh, the Protestants hate the Catholics
And the Catholics hate the Protestants
And the Hindus hate the Moslems
And everybody hates the Jews"

National Brotherhood Week - Tom Lehrer, 1965

 
Written By: looker
URL: http://
C. Ford,

I appreciate your bringing up the LLF report, and have some sympathy for some of your complaints. However, I am sick and tired of the anti-semitic BS. Your problem, such as it is, is with certain liberals, most of whom are not Jewish. Most Jews, even in America, are not guilty of the sympathies you describe, though they, like many, are manipulated by what McQ is talking about.

Even if Jews are disproportionately represented in certain groups, that you don’t like those beliefs has nothing to do with their Jewishness. It is their anti-American leftism you despise, that you keep attaching it to Jews because they are a larger minority than in the general population within the left-liberal camp is not only atavistic, it is offensive. McQ and company are more tolerant than I, for however much we might agree on many matters, the second time you spouted off such crap on my blog would lead to your IP being banned.
 
Written By: Lance
URL: http://www.asecondhandconjecture.com
I suspect that in part the anti-propaganda attitude most of us have (myself included) is the result of a successful propaganda campaign by our enemies, to convince large swathes of the US that it should never try to promote itself by official means. "Voice of America? How crass! It’s cultural imperialism! The US should not stoop to unseemly self-promotion! Quick, move the funding to paying for Congress’s next pay raise!" That kinda thing.
 
Written By: Dave
URL: http://
’The Grandchildren of the Jews that supported and covered up for Stalin in the media they owned, still have heavy ownership of those media resources, and have embarked on a Leftist course to discredit American soldiers,’

Every time I start to think that your posts are worth reading, you come up with
something like this. Aside from the odious prejudice involved, your statements are just plain stupid and ignorant, as any objective examination of reality shows. Do some Jews control some media, and probably exert some influence? Sure. Extrapolating that to a grand conspiracy is, as I said, stupid and ignorant. But don’t take it personally. I realize you are only a tool of the great white trash conspiracy, since you obviously aren’t smart enough to do any independent thinking.
 
Written By: timactual
URL: http://
Omar - nice look at.

Do you think American public opinion (I agree with the link that feeds world opinion back into our opinion and from there into our political decisions) consider SE Asian opinions important enough to pay attention to if they diverged from the European ones?

 
Written By: looker
URL: http://
Lance, Timactual - Too bad the truth hurts you so.....

All you have to do is look at the institutions that covered for Stalin, the institutions and people now that are the busiest undermining Bush, the soldiers - while being the strongest advocates for more enemy rights. Who are they? Red diaper baby’s offspring. McQ doesn’t believe in generational activism:
It also smacks of a generational grand conspiracy which, of course, is preposterous
No, no more than a family who has 6 generations serve as Army officers. Many studies have found remarkable persistance of radical activism in families and cultures, even with dramatic change in material circumstance and education. No conspiracy. Conspiracy is just a loaded word thrown in to discredit people making a valid observation as "paranoid".
Most Jews, even in America, are not guilty of the sympathies you describe, though they, like many, are manipulated
Please, don’t twist the case of an influential Leftist Jewish network into an implied "ALL of them" stereotype. It’s a bogus defense, constantly engaged in by the dishonest, Lance. AS in rebutting someone who says "Jews ran the communist movement in America" with "Oh, so you’re saying most Jews are communists!! They of course ALL weren’t, so clearly Jewish leadership of American communism is false!" The red herring of course is that claim that there cannot be a movement that does not include nearly 100% of an ethnicity, and it can’t be true if it is not a "secret conspiracy global in scale. Ergo, the Italian mafia did not exist, or it was a slur to call it Italian. THe denial at work is obvious. "Who are you going to believe; Me? Or your own lying eyes?" The tactic presumes those it is used on are stupid. Instead it only generates more resentment. Neocons are also doing it...and it isn’t working.

I just point out the irony that the strongest advocates and defenders of radical Islamists here in the US, as well as the people responsible for most of editorializing against US soldiers, national security programs - happen to be Leftist Jews. I think it behooves religious Jews to fight their influence and cease being on the sidelines. No group is more responsible for us losing the propaganda war than the "destroy the present Administration at All Costs" Leftist Jews in Congress, the ACLU, media, Code Pink, Hollywood.
 
Written By: C. Ford
URL: http://
No, no more than a family who has 6 generations serve as Army officers.
That is absolutely a non sequitur. You’re claiming a giant industry is controlled by various Jewish families - for generations - and they’ve conspired to control the news and its content through their ownership to a family which has 6 generations of serving Army officers?

That’s just laughable. It doesn’t even compute.
Many studies have found remarkable persistance of radical activism in families and cultures, even with dramatic change in material circumstance and education. No conspiracy. Conspiracy is just a loaded word thrown in to discredit people making a valid observation as "paranoid".
You are most certainly implying a conspiracy whether you’ll admit it or not, and the "many studies" nonsense is a pretty weak attempt to wave off the implication.

The media isn’t a some sort of puppet-like monolith which can be controlled from the top by some inter-generational cabal bent on purveying a particular world and cultural view. It wasn’t even that way when it was almost exclusively print only and would have had the most likelihood of existing, if it ever did.
I just point out the irony that the strongest advocates and defenders of radical Islamists here in the US, as well as the people responsible for most of editorializing against US soldiers, national security programs - happen to be Leftist Jews. I think it behooves religious Jews to fight their influence and cease being on the sidelines. No group is more responsible for us losing the propaganda war than the "destroy the present Administration at All Costs" Leftist Jews in Congress, the ACLU, media, Code Pink, Hollywood.
Yeah, like those well known Jews Murtha, Kerry, Glover, Sheehan, Jackson, Sharpton, Sarandon, Carter and Fonda, etc. etc, ad infinitum. You bet.
 
Written By: McQ
URL: http://www.qando.net/blog
Looker, the rest of your first sentence got cut-off. I’m not sure what "nice look at" refers to. I think it’s a complimentary review of my earlier post. If so, thank you! :)

As to the SE Asian versus European debate, hmmm. Honestly, 2006, I say the UN and the world worships at the great beer stein and pastry cafe of French and German opinion. Western Europe, today, is essentially defined by these two states. Yes, I know we have the Brits, but they don’t (most of them, anyway) even define themselves AS Europeans. Spain and Italy aren’t economically dominant enought to really make a difference and have way too much internal conflict to present a united front even if they were. Benelux is somewhat of a joke (genuinely nice people, absolutely dreadful government). I’m not sure where you can categorize Portugal or Ireland, except perhaps as not economically dominant enough to have a voice. Switzerland, Austria, Monaco, etc. are non-entities (Switzerland and Austria by choice, Monaco by population and geographical constraints).

In the next twenty years, however, I believe that the demographic crisis in Western Europe will reach a head and the new Europe (or Eurabia for those inclined to hyperbole) will arise. It will be a very different sort of place and, I suspect, none too friendly to Americans (please see the Louvre now while you can). Old Europe’s influence is fading.

SE Asia, on the other hand, is a brilliantly vibrant place. Populations are booming, as are economies. Although still internally unstable, Malaysia and Indonesia are THE future of Asia. Thailand, Singapore, and the Phillippines are close behind. Also, Myanmar, Vietnam, and Kampuchea (I think that’s the current names in use, they seem to change them every few years), are poised to become success stories. How the US relates to this handful of soon-to-be great nations is entirely up in the air at this point. An important point about our relations with SE Asians is that a great many are Muslims. Moderate, non-fundamentalist, non-Arab Muslims. Do they identify with the Salafis of the Middle East? No, not the vast majority, but they do certainly have an eye to US attitudes toward Muslims in general and I suspect that this is an area which can most assuredly blow up in our faces. We have to start aggressively supporting pro-democracy forces in SE Asia with a long-term goal of helping them to stabilize economically and politically. We also need to start building the necessary cultural bridges with these folks that are lacking now. How many Americans can even find Malaysia on the globe? We did a flawed, though respectable job of doing this with Japan and Korea. We need to do this again with SE Asia.

I guess, in short, 2006 the world is Eurocentric. 2026, who knows? And I don’t think that’s necessarily a bad thing.
 
Written By: The Poet Omar
URL: http://
C. Ford,

McQ answered effectively, but I would also the fact that American Communism was not led by Jews. Some of its leaders were Jewish, most not. In fact the anti-communist left has been led by Jews in a much more obvious way than American Communism. If there is something to be said that would be something for which the empirical evidence is much stronger.

In addition, even if your demographics were correct, their Jewishness is not all that relevant. Exactly what value does continuing to harp on their Jewishness accomplish? What action flows from it? You are fighting their beliefs, not their religion or ethnicity. The only area where their ethnicity might be important in this is pointing out that many of those who defend Israel are Jewish. I still think arguments on policy should stand on their own merits, but as an observation it can help us understand why some people think the way they do. It has no bearing beyond that. It doesn’t tell us what policy we should or should not pursue. It has no value in understanding their beliefs about Communism, and Stalin in particular, except as history of Jewish intellectual life, a particular interest of mine.

It doesn’t imply any action or conclusion about what to do about communism, unless what you want to do is keep Jews out of the media? I doubt that, but if not, what exactly is the point of mentioning that they are Jewish? It would make more sense, even if that was a desire, to discriminate based on beliefs, not background. The only reason to keep bringing up this sociological complaint is to say something bad about Jews, because otherwise it has no purpose.
 
Written By: Lance
URL: http://www.asecondhandconjecture.com
So let me get this straight. I’m hearing all the time about how bad government is, and how we should have less of it. Now, though, it’s apparently OK to let them control which information is given emphasis or exposure relative to others, according to what suits their ideological ends? That’s what "systematic propagation of information reflecting the views and interests of those advocating a doctrine or cause" means. If the prevailing ideology is religious, it means we’ll hear lot about how religion is great and little about its problems. Would you be as comfortable giving the government license to publish propaganda if the left controlled Washington instead of the right? What if the prevailing sentiment in Washington was pro-Palestinian instead of pro-Israel? Multilateral instead of imperial? Pacifist instead of belligerent? Would you be comfortable with the government spreading leftist, pro-Palestinian, multilateral, pacifist propaganda? Didn’t think so.

Whoever controls information controls policy. We should not cede control of information to the government lest they abuse that power for their own self-perpetuation. The founding fathers realized that, which is why a free and independent press was a cherished value to them. The government already has a vast array of official organs with which to get out their message, plus various segments of the press (e.g. Faux News) and dozens of "think tanks" (PR firms) to support it. They don’t need more. Playing crappy music louder doesn’t make it better. What we need is a new tune.

To condone propaganda is to abandon reasoned debate. If the debate isn’t going the way you’d like, perhaps it’s because the facts don’t go the way you’d like. Propaganda is the problem, not the solution.
 
Written By: Platypus
URL: http://pl.atyp.us
Now, though, it’s apparently OK to let them control which information is given emphasis or exposure relative to others, according to what suits their ideological ends?
Actually what it all means is they need to get something out there in place of the big nothing they presently have. Or said another way they need to tell their story instead of letting their enemies frame it as they are now.

Now, if you think that means they’ll control the media, then you have no idea what I’m talking about.
 
Written By: McQ
URL: http://www.qando.net/blog
McQ;

Precisely.
The argument you forming your post is eaxctly what my argument has been for the last two years. It’s one major reason why I put BitsBlog on the 101st Fighting Keyboardists list.

there are a number of people who would consider that group to be worse than useless. However the purposes of the group has I understand them are precisely what you set out, here.

The fact of the matter is the outcome of this war... our survival or not, depends as much on public opinion, as it does on boots on the ground. Indeed; in some ways, the war depends more on public opinion.

And no, I’m not kidding, and can cite a sore spet as an example of this; Consider once again Vietnam. The North was weeks from folding, by the admission of their former commanders.

What won the war there for them?
Public opinion here at home, which in turn was driven by years of bad press and far left , and even pro- communist, activism, with no force to counter them.

I equate the naysayers of today with that crowd, back then. It doesn’t take much of an imagination to see that the results are the same when the same forces are applied.

And before I get asked, no, I don’t equate the danger of fighting here, to fighting in Iraq... (though as Theo VanGogh aptly demonstrated, telling the truth is not without it’s dangers...) but the job is none the less crucial to our victory.


Linked.



 
Written By: Bithead
URL: http://bitheads.blogspot.com

Most "media control" posts are false flag attempts to discredit Israel’s critics by evoking "Protocol" comparisons, but, that said, the US media is in fact (as Erick Alterman demonstrated a few years back) overwhelmingly pro-Israeli. Where, I ask you, are the pro-Arab equivalents of Cliff May, Reul Gerecht, Dennis Ross, Frank Gaffney, Ken Adelman, Richard Perle, Charles Krauthammer, James Woolsey, Dick Bennett, etc etc? I invite anyone to find and list the opposing voices? And where is the counterpart to Wolf Blitzer, former AIPAC exec and Washington correspondent for the Jerusalem Post?

Juan Cole? When is the last time you saw him on television? And now you won’t be hearing him at Yale either.

As for us, we fill hours discussing that dope Mel Gibson while lunatic settlers continue gobble up all the best land in the West Bank and build the wall— closing the door on any hope for peace.
 
Written By: skip
URL: http://
As for us, we fill hours discussing that dope Mel Gibson while lunatic settlers continue gobble up all the best land in the West Bank and build the wall— closing the door on any hope for peace.
Right. And of course we won’t mention the fact that when that same country which has the "lunatic settlers" gave back the Gaza strip, the peaceful Palestinians turned it into a war zone and a place from which to launch attacks into Israel.

Too inconvenient to the meme, isn’t it?
 
Written By: McQ
URL: http://www.qando.net/blog
Ah, skip.

List begins:

Juan Cole (above mentioned)
The late, great Edward Said
The producers of Dateline NBC
Stephen Walt (Harvard’s Kennedy School of Government)
Virtually the entire staff of the LA Times
Robert Novak (formerly CNN, late of Fox News)
Patrick Buchanan
Thom Hartman (Air America)
Speaking of Air America, have you seen founder Sheldon Drobny’s lame, Rove made us do it, spiel about why so many progressive/leftists blogs are pathologically anti-Israel (google it)
Nihad Awad (CAIR)
Ramsey Clark (no explanation needed)
Louis Farrakhan (again, no explanation needed)
Alexander Cockburn (of Counterpunch fame)
Cynthia McKinney (if unfamiliar, read McQ’s column)
Rashid Khaldi (Columbia U. Prof)
Joseph Massad
Bill White (formerly of Pravda, now of Overthrow.com)
Noam Chomsky (MIT prof)
Andrew Rubin (Georgetown Prof)
Norman Solomon (formerly of Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting)
Justin Raimondo (of antiwar.com)

I could go on for days.
 
Written By: The Poet Omar
URL: http://
Ya beat me to it, Omar.
(grin)
 
Written By: Bithead
URL: http://bitheads.blogspot.com
If the debate isn’t going the way you’d like, perhaps it’s because the facts don’t go the way you’d like
Oh please. We live in a world where terrorists are being treated as the victims here, where the world seems quite content to leave an armed terror group in control of a large section of a nation committed to destroy their neighbor, and in fact is demanding the true victims cease fire.

THAT is the result of "debate"- the endless chattering of empty headed bleeding hearts and ivory tower moral equivilance nitwits, the verdict of the media and chattering classes. Scr*w that. Less debate, more propoganda please.
As for us, we fill hours discussing that dope Mel Gibson while lunatic settlers continue gobble up all the best land in the West Bank and build the wall— closing the door on any hope for peace
Good fences make good neighbors...
 
Written By: Shark
URL: http://
the US media is in fact (as Erick Alterman demonstrated a few years back) overwhelmingly pro-Israeli
I disagree, but lets grant this for sake of argument- that the media is pro-Israel.

Why do you feel that’s a bad thing? Why are you so anxious for the media to show "balance" to those who want to exterminate a nation? To those who blow up school busses and pizza parlors? To those who have vowed to destroy America?

Why so eager for balance to be given to enemies of civilization? If there is good and evil as there is in this case, why do you agitate for evil?
 
Written By: Shark
URL: http://
In war, one must grab any possible advantage and deny one’s opponent any possible advantage. In the war on terror our enemies do not have standing armies or the power to conscript young men. In order to build their networks, the terrorists must recruit and brainwash young people through the use of propaganda. We should be working as hard to take the propaganda tool away from the terrorists as we are working at cutting off their funding.

Dale F. Eickelman, a professor at the Oxford Centre for Islamic Studies, wrote an essay in the Los Angeles Times on December 9, 2001 arguing that the lack of democracy and a free press in the Middle East magnified the power of the "Arab street" in shaping opinions, and he pointed out that the key to al Qaeda’s success at recruiting was their sophisticated ability to target the Arab street with propaganda:
In part, the group’s success can be traced to its ability to effectively use the tools of pop culture it rejects. An al Qaeda recruitment video that circulated widely in the Middle East prior to Sept. 11 demonstrated that the group’s propaganda skills reached the "Arab street" - its target audience - more effectively than the Western superpowers or many Arab governments.
Surely the US, entertainment capital of the world, could compete with al Qaeda in producing propaganda videos.

Hussein’s Iraq was another example of the US being outfoxed in the propaganda war. All the while he was profiting from the Oil-For-Food program, and building palaces with the proceeds, Hussein was effectively convincing the Arab world and the Western Left that economic sanctions were starving millions of Iraqis.

Of course, the "plight of the Palestinians" is one of the most potent propaganda symbols in the Arab world, and, as long as we continue to arm Israel our enemies will be able to use this issue to rally the Arab street against us.

In a speech delivered here in Los Angeles Tony Blair absolutely hit the nail on the head:

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-blair2aug02,1,5478529.story
"We need relentlessly, vigorously, to put a viable Palestinian government on its feet" and offer a vision of a path that would lead to final-status negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians, Blair said. "Nothing else will do. Nothing else is more important to the success of our foreign policy.

"We all support a two-state solution," he said in the meeting at The Times. "But that’s not going to happen unless it is absolutely day in and day out, week in and week out, striven for. And that’s what we’ve got to do."

In addition, he said, the West must build alliances with moderate Mideast governments, must "see the job through in Iraq" and must make clear to the governments of Iran and Syria that they must stop supporting extremists or risk confrontation with the West.
 
Written By: Aldo
URL: http://
Israel is already fighting a strong propaganda war on many fronts.

For example, early on it detained Al Jazeera reporters, suggesting they were aiding Hezbollah, deliberately to cast doubt on the station’s reporting.

The government and the IDF successfully stoked up this whole issue of Hezbollah "hiding behind civilians" - despite the fact that unlike Hamas, Hezbollah’s tactics actually separate their military and adminstrative arms both organisationally and geographically. Israel knew its tactics would require large-scale civilian casualties, and so it has used this very successfully to defuse world opinion.

The IDF have also had remarkable successes defusing the outrage at events like Qana by suggesting that their rockets weren’t actually responsible for the building collapse. In the days afterwards this story ran, even though the IDF now appear to admit it was their resonsibility.

I’d say the Israeli propabanda machine is actually remarkably successful. If any other country were to attempt this sort of campaign - requiring the obliteration of a democratic country’s infrastructure and the killing of hundreds of non-combatants - it wouldn’t have anywhere near this level of sympathy.
 
Written By: William
URL: http://
Are you kidding, Omar? I mean, really. Dead serious. Are you making a joke?
Your list has a Democratic Politican, three random academics, and people who work at counterpunch, air america. Pat Buchanan is a conservative. Robert Novak is a liberal-hating Bush apologist. Are you claiming that counterpunch and air america control the media or are representative of it? Air America = CNN?

Fox News has 10 times the viewership of the combined total of everyone on your list, and the media is controlled by **liberals**? Or does, for you, demonstrating that leftist views even exist, can be found on the world wide web, mean that they run the world?

Among the more surreal of my moments on Q and O...
 
Written By: glasnost
URL: http://
Glasnost, Skip asked for a list of public and/or media figures who voiced opposition to Israel. I expanded this a little bit to include those who directly challenged the so-called neo-con "pro-Israel" champions. Despite the fact that some of the above may be obscure, they all have, do, and will oppose Israel.

My point was not to demonstrate media bias one way or the other. I was simply pointing out to Skip that there are, in fact, just as many public voices opposing Israel in America as there are supporting it.
 
Written By: The Poet Omar
URL: http://
Also, glasnost, you addressed only a few of those I listed. Novak and Pat B are certainly champions of the "bash-a-lib" movement. They are also disgusting anti-semites who have constantly rammed home the idea that Israel owns America. In Novak’s case it is especially despicable as he is a self-hating Jew who was raised Catholic.

And I mentioned Air America, counterpunch, anti-war, and some of the others as major outlets of left-wing thought in America today. These are some of the hubs of the netroots groupies and definitely represent a major and growing force within the modern DP.

How about the LA Times staff? Or the wonderful people at Dateline? Not exactly the 3 AM slot on local public access cable, eh?

Also, why no mention of Chomsky (thrice blessed and sainted messiah of the left), Said (who still exerts his influence from beyond the grave), or Juan Cole (who makes fairly frequent media appearances)?

Norm Solomon used to be a bigwig over at FAIR, which many on the left tend to cite (you know to show the obvious right-wing bias in the media). Or Awad who is a former executive director of CAIR (I think he has since moved on)?

Are all of these guys just obscure extremist cranks?
 
Written By: The Poet Omar
URL: http://
I may have misunderstood your list, Omar. If it’s demonstrating that there are anti-Israel voices in the media, I think that’s true. As to whether the two sides get equivalent play, I don’t know if it demonstrates that or not - but I don’t really expect that - Israelis speak more English and have more friends. I don’t know if the LATimes or Dateline is anti-Israel. I suppose it’s possible. I haven’t heard the case.
 
Written By: glasnost
URL: http://
I did, in fact, originally think that it was intended to demonstrate the dominance of the media by the Left. Sorry about that.
 
Written By: glasnost
URL: http://
No problem, glasnost. I think we were just approaching the issue from two different angles. As to media bias, eh, I grow tired of the arguments from both sides. Overall, print leans left. Radio leans right. TV eventually balances itself out, although I suspect most TV types are center-left rather than the centrist moderates they claim to be. And the blogosphere is a completely unknow entity at this time. I can’t really see either side being particularly dominant yet in the netwars.

I don’t really know that Israel has more friends here, AIPAC notwithstanding. The one basic truth of human existence is that money talks. I know, I know. How cynical. Honestly though, it’s a cliche because it is so true. When it comes to $$$, Israel is badly outclassed. Look at the amount of endowed chair positions and institutes that Saudi money is financing. When it comes to ability to buy media support, the Saudis are the ones with the most friends. And I can even name them : Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, US Grant, etc.
 
Written By: The Poet Omar
URL: http://
Point of order;

Buchanan is a populist, not a conservative, though he does have leanings toward social conservattism.
 
Written By: Bithead
URL: http://bitheads.blogspot.com
In Europe, I am from Scotland (part of the UK for those who don’t know!!) one hears a lot about how blinkered Americans are on world issues, how Americans are close minded and draw their opinions from sub-standard, commercially funded, patriotic news channels such as fox. I however thought this was just stereotype. Then I viewed this web site. McQ seems not to have considered what values they actually stand for. Some who have added comments advocate the "spreading of freedom" but also seem to really like the idea of propaganda and feel positively towards Guantanamo bay. Can’t you see the absolute contradiction?

The person who describes Benelux governments as "a joke" must be having a joke themselves. I suggest you research racial inequality in the USA caused by your dreadful history on the race issue and then compare that to the levels of racial inequality in the Netherlands. In fact don’t stop at racial inequality, have a look at social inequality as a whole, research crime figures and health and then draw your conclusions about whose governments "a joke"!

I outright disagree with any propaganda at all in any form as its mind control that should be completely avoided at all costs. Although I know to talk about civil liberties in the Republican voting states of the US gets you branded as a "communist", (echoes of McCarthy!) I hope some can see where I am coming from.

As to the suggestion that yours is not working, well your correct as far as the rest of the world is concerned however the level at which it operates with in the United States is unrivaled by any other long established democracy. Those who comment on this page about the "evil" in the world must really consider relativity. Its not batman or superman here with clear-cut villains and heroes, this is the real world in which every one operates to different values that they consider to be right. To address terrorism, a level of relativity would go a lot further than F16’s in the middle east with uneducated 19 year soldiers under educated soldiers attempting to win "hearts and minds" on the streets of Baghdad.

Obviously, being part of the UK, Tony Blair is the Prime Minister and his views are perhaps nearer to the views that dominate this page, this is not the general view of the United Kingdom however, Tony Blair gains much of his support from those not concerned with international politics but with domestic politics. They only vote for Blair as the alternative is the Conservative party whose party hardcore consist of the rich Southern English who did so much damage to this country in the 1980’s.

My city consists of 5% Polish immigrants and I know many, I must inform the person who suggested that the former communist countries of Eastern Europe see the United States as a heroic ally and a promoter of "freedom" are completely misinformed, although no longer pro-communism their views are far more along German and French lines but generally to the left of these, the support the US gains from their governments is due mainly to indirect bribery!
 
Written By: Paul
URL: http://
I outright disagree with any propaganda at all in any form as its mind control that should be completely avoided at all costs.
Well then it is obvious Paul, despite your claim to superior knowledge, that you have no idea what propaganda is.
In Europe, I am from Scotland (part of the UK for those who don’t know!!) one hears a lot about how blinkered Americans are on world issues, how Americans are close minded and draw their opinions from sub-standard, commercially funded, patriotic news channels such as fox. I however thought this was just stereotype.
I completely understand. And we hear about how most Europeans including Scots (much to my chagrin) have all become appeasers afraid of their own shadows. Victims of moral relevance, they equate terrorists who attack people with states who strike back and excuse the terrorists instead of condemning them. I always thought it was a stereotype ... and then you show up.

Because you see ...
To address terrorism, a level of relativity would go a lot further than F16’s in the middle east with uneducated 19 year soldiers under educated soldiers attempting to win "hearts and minds" on the streets of Baghdad.
... sophisticated and morally superior European would know this must happen before the soldiers show up.

But instead, we have you.
 
Written By: McQ
URL: http://www.qando.net/blog
OK Europeans are afraid of their own shadows you say, well actually the Europeans who might be most afraid at the moment are the Europeans from the countries whose governments have taken a pro-USA stance as terrorist attacks have occurred in the UK (London) and Spain (Madrid) but interestingly not France or Germany who understand that a land invasion of a country, the destruction of its infrastructure and the resulting civilian death toll in the 10’s of thousands is not a way to inspire world peace. Crazy that Europeans could equate this with terrorism. Again when Israel manage to kill 800 civilians in order to achieve their objectives, what is the difference, both sides are saying some civilian death as collateral is justified in achieving their objectives. Both are equally wrong.

The terrorist who attacked in September 11th were in no way justified in targeting civilians however they did not represent a democratically elected government and had absolutely no links to Iraq what so ever, you may have forgotten the lie that Bush and Blair went to the UN with to justify a land invasion in Iraq was that he was developing, still to this day unfound, weapons of mass destruction. Whatever the case causing the civil chaos that the United States has caused in a part of the world that in no way wants influences from the USA, has absolutely no cultural similarities and shares no values with the USA is in no way justifiable.

Again I must stress though that none of the 9/11 bombers were from Iraq or sponsored by Iraq and in fact Osama Bin Laden actually wished Al Qaeda to destroy Saddam Hussein back in the 90’s. So Iraq and 9/11 bombers = 2 completely different entities. Everyone knows why the Blair and Bush were interested in invading Iraq.

It may be hard, having probably had to solute the stars and stripes and recite the declaration of independence from an age when you cant of known anything about politics ( a US practice that crushes free thought from a young age) to understand that many, many aspect of U.S culture are completely undesirable to other cultures and religions. What Americans need to learn that is the ideology prodominant in the United States is just one of many and far from the best. The "American Dream" concept is something that many societies fear getting into their society as it promotes greed and people who value material possessions, often a complete contradiction to other religions values.

If children in American classes learnt less about why they should love America and more about how to analyse political events from a neutral and relative prospective, then patriotic, often religiously charged, statement from Bush certainly wouldn’t win elections and narrow minded people who share your narrow minded view would not get to command a ridiculous sized army on imperial conquests in areas of the world with different cultures. (I do understand that prodominating views in some states of the USA are not as narrow minded)
 
Written By: Paul
URL: http://

 
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