February 03, 2004

The intelligence inquiry...
Posted by Jon Henke

I said I'd discuss the downsides to an intelligence inquiry in due time...and this seems as good a time as any.

First, the reasons we DO need an inquiry. The administration order...

"...directs the panel to compare intelligence findings about Iraq produced before the war with the paucity of stockpiles and weapons found by American inspection teams on the ground in Iraq."
Pretty basic way to start, right? The panel needs to figure out what was right, what was wrong and why we had the disparity. And the evidence for that analysis is still being collected in Iraq.

So, will that be done? Will we analyze the facts first? Well, not necessarily. Blame-storming: full speed ahead.

Josh Marshall...

"...will it look at the administration's use of intelligence, and at the White House, the Office of the Secretary of Defense and the Office of the Vice President?"
First things first, Josh. Presumably, the results of the intelligence inquiry would also provide an answer to your question, without the political circus (oh, come on, you KNOW it would be) that would be any investigation into ANY administrations "use of intelligence".

By the way, will that investigation include the Clinton administration's use of the same intelligence data and conclusions to justify a 1998 attack on Iraq?

I mean, since we're being honest and everything.

Matt Yglesias...

God -- the spin machine really is good. Suddenly over the past 48 hours every single figure on the right seems to have come to a unanimous decision that the CIA and the CIA alone is wholly to blame for the intelligence mishaps. But then why did Dick Cheney need to create an entire parallel intelligence apparatus under Doug Feith dedicated exclusively to explaining why the CIA was underestimating Iraq's WMD capacity?
Magnificent! The CIA has been exculpated by virtue of dissenting opinion! If some thought they may have underestimated Iraq, then they can't be guilty of overestimating Iraq! So, it must be Bush's fault!

CalPundit...

The hell of it is that Republicans might very well get away with blaming the CIA. After all, the CIA did screw up. They really did report that Iraq probably had both WMD stocks and active programs.

But probably wasn't good enough, and Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld quite clearly ran roughshod over the career analysts in order to provide ironclad assurances that all this stuff existed.

"Probably", Kevin? In the 2002 National Intelligence Estimate, listed under "High Confidence" is this statement: "Iraq possesses proscribed chemical and biological weapons and missiles."

Just keep moving that line, Kevin, and you can shift the debate. Forget finding out why the CIA reached their conclusions...let's skip straight to blaming the people who made use of that intel data. Score!

Pandagon....

"It is imperative that the American people remain unaware of whether or not their President led them into war based on false or exaggerated claims. Such knowledge would allow for an accurate judgment of his capabilities as Commander-in-Chief and could lead to a referendum based upon his whole record and not just our upcoming trip to Mars. So for the good of our polity, the Commission's findings will not be revealed until after Americans reelect the President."
Ezra, apparently, doesn't need to bother with the whole "figuring out what happened" thing....it's straight to the blame. He even knows who gets it.

Of course, his blamestorm does not seem to include the Clinton administration...which made the same claims. Just an oversight, of course.

This is exactly why any investigation is necessarily dangerous. Not that we may find the truth, but that the investigation will become a political circus. (reference: Whitewater>>>Monica Lewinsky)


Obviously, we need to figure out what the facts are. I'll stand right there with these guys (and McQ, earlier) demanding an investigation of our intelligence methods and findings. But that comes first, and independent of the separate investigation on whether the administration oversold the intelligence we had.

Imagine an inquiry into the Space Shuttle Columbia disaster which focused on pinning blame on administrators.....before it determined what went wrong with the Space Shuttle.

Colin Powell has listed the relevant questions right now....

"how many stocks they had, if any? And if they had any, where did they go? And if they didn't have any, then why wasn't that known beforehand?"
First things first, guys. Facts...THEN blame. Don't conflate the two before we start.

UPDATE: Jesse from Pandagon comments....

Sigh. I was going to correct you all, but this boils down to, "Clinton Clinton Clinton. If you blame Bush because he invaded another country, what about Clinton because he didn't? Liberals hate America because they're holding the Commander-in-Chief responsible for the war he got us into. Traitors."

Let me know when you get through the Coulter/Horowitz section of the syllabus and start aping partisan rhetoric that's less hyperbolically wrong, m'kay?

First: I've never read Horowitz and I cannot stomach Ann Coulter. In fact, I specifically told you the latter some time ago. You seem to go for the ad hominem in many of your posts, though, so I'm not suprised that you'd intentionally misrepresent my background in this case.

In fact, your entire response is ad hominem dodging. My "Clinton" assertion was perfectly legitimate since BOTH administrations used the same language, the same intel data and the same justifications. The difference between the attacks is one of DEGREE, not of nature.

And I supported - and still support - Clintons actions in 1998. So please take your claims of "Clinton bashing" elsewhere. They don't hold water here, m'kay.

The rest of your response was a strawman, entirely. Did I call liberals traitors? Don't be an idiot. Of course I didn't. Note that I compared their motives to the Republicans in the late 90s. If I was calling liberals "traitors", then I was calling Republicans "traitors", too.

And that just wouldn't sit well with your "aping partisan rhetoric" claim, would it?

You're a smart guy. Act like it.

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Comments

Yeah, this won't get political. The info that the Bush admin did NOT manipulate the info or lie was already buried in a tiny story in the back of the papers.

You want an independent probe of the CIA? So do I. But it won't happen. The Dems will poison the well, they had already planned it (see: leaked intelligence committee memos)

YOU want a probe because you're concerned about the well being of the country. THEY want a probe because they are concerned about the well being of their party. Is it any suprise that most people not only question the patriotism of the left, we accuse them of treason as well? Maybe they should try putting their country ahead of their party....which they never do

Posted by: shark at February 3, 2004 10:16 AM

Sigh. I was going to correct you all, but this boils down to, "Clinton Clinton Clinton. If you blame Bush because he invaded another country, what about Clinton because he didn't? Liberals hate America because they're holding the Commander-in-Chief responsible for the war he got us into. Traitors."

Let me know when you get through the Coulter/Horowitz section of the syllabus and start aping partisan rhetoric that's less hyperbolically wrong, m'kay?

Posted by: jesse at February 3, 2004 10:35 AM

That's such a lame argument.

If there was some conspiracy to sell the country on a war based upon intelligence that Saddam had WMD's, then the Clintons, Chirac and everybody else who is on record as believing Saddam had WMD's was in on it. That's the point.

Whether one President acted on the intel and one didn't will not change that. I know this is a struggle for non-linear thinkers, so you might make a diagram or ask your top or something.

IF: "Bush Lied", THEN "Clinton Lied".

IF "Clinton Did Not Lie", THEN "Bush Did Not Lie"

Posted by: spongeworthy at February 3, 2004 11:25 AM

Liberals hate Bush because they're partisian hacks bitterly angry at having their party be almost totally out of power. They also hate Bush because he's coming in and cleaning up St. Clinton's mess.

In the meantime, based on the behavior of the left, calling them traitors (or at the least unpatriotic) isn't out of line. Their conduct has raised some SERIOUS questions about just what they hold dear.

In the meantime, I am laughing my ass off watching the party of "baby killer" and "we support our troops when they kill their officers" swoon over military nitwits like Clark and Kerry. Also laughing my ass off watching Kennedy make stump speeches extolling how Kerry saved someone from drowning. IS THE IRONY LOST ON HIM?

In the meantime, Kerry threw away "fake" medals, trotted out fake vets to testify in congress, and made cozy to Hanoi Jane while our troops were dying. Once a traitor, always a traitor.

Hell, the guy is even a traitor to his 1st wife, man he couldn't wait to get his mitts on the ketchup fortune....

Sorry Democrats. You're exposed for what you are, no rocks for you to hide under now...

Posted by: shark at February 3, 2004 04:04 PM

"...trotted out fake vets..."

I dont disagree with the rest of your post, shark, but could you enlighten me as to what you meant by the above quote???

when did Kerry trot out these fake vets???

link please?

thanks...

Posted by: great satan at February 7, 2004 11:36 AM

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