QandO

I can't beleive that young Capt Reese and his Top didn't know what was going on. It's possible, just barely that Capt Reese kept the Battalion CO in the dark. I find it difficult to imagine how a competent Battalion CO could've missed something like this, but I've seen Squadron commanders keep relatively minor things on the QT so that the Group or Wing Commander didn't know about them. So I suppose it's possible.

But there's simply no way for both the Company CO and the First Sgt not to know. I guarantee you that any modestly plugged in First Sgt knows pretty much EVERYTHING that's going on the Company.

I feel the same way about the squad leader, SSgt CHip Frederick. As soon as he gets popped, his civilian mouthpiece starts in with, "Well, they never received the proper training."

Bull.

A Staff Sgt has at least 6 years of experience as an MP, and probaly closer to 8 or 10. Don't give me that "I wasn't trained" jive. Plus, he's a corrections officer for the Commonwealth of Virginia in civilian life.

I don't know what these guys are smoking, but I can tell you that if they think these kinds of statements are gonna get them out of a court-martial at their Art 32 hearing, then they're even bigger fools than they appear to be.

Posted by: Dale Franks at May 3, 2004 04:46 PM

Disgusting story it is true. But my outrage over this story will run out the exact second the coverage exceeds that of the mutilated americans...

Posted by: Trump at May 3, 2004 07:06 PM

You know what I keep thinking about Karpinski (esp after seeing a bit on O'Reilly)? That if I were her in that position there, I'd *ensure* that everything was by the book. I would *know* that I'd be the fall guy (gal) if anything was remotely wrong. I'd even be tempted to back myself up with recorded meetings w/ staff.

I mean, how can you NOT want to be certain your ass is covered?

That is all without the obvious thought process that the best we could have done was treat the prisoners better than they were used to - better than anyone who might pay them on the outside. Because that chatter amongst themselves would have done one hell of a lot more for our work there than just about anything.

Posted by: LauraN at May 4, 2004 07:14 AM

In know Tony Taguba from days long ago in Mainz, Germany. He's a straight ahead guy. I'm sorry to see that he's having to dig through this mess, but it is good to see that one of the good guys got up to the position he holds. Carry, on Tony.

As for the reserve MP colonel, I think this only reflects the poor state of training and morale in the reserve components, and how very much the army needs to rethink how the reserve components are being used. Unfortunately, Rumsfeld is committed to this "total force" idea, since he was the one who brought it in under Gerry Ford, back when he was SecDef the first time around, in the 70s. Let's "transform" the Total Force into something we can rely upon.

Posted by: Bill R at May 5, 2004 01:17 PM

I can't really agree with your training point, Bill. I trained reserve units for years. The 800th MP Bde is an exception to what I saw and experienced. When I read Taguba's litany of failure, I saw leadership as the primary problem.

A Bn Cdr who was pathetic, a Bde Cdr who didn't know what was going on in her command, no METL update or training, no requests for SME's to help in training, no SOPs or TACSOPS (and those that existed were ignored) etc.

This isn't the norm by any stretch in the reserves (or guard).

Posted by: McQ at May 5, 2004 01:30 PM

I am sure that I will hear a response of "sexist" but the fact is that this is incompetency at it's worse and is a direct result of the feminization of the military. That a senior officer would respond in the manner that she did is a disgrace. It is a disgrace to the uniform and those who have worn it before. I cannot remember anything in Vietnam that resembled the sexual nature of this abuse. It appears that a couple of female MP's got the opportunity to live out their fantasies and their male hatred.
The entire chain of command right up to that useless"general" should be court martialed and punished. Incompetency in wartime is worse than treason.
A lot of fine men have worn the brassard of the MP. The actions of these people are beyond contempt and should be cause for a top down review of the military structure. The experiment of political correctness should be retired and the era of combat efficiency and soldierly conduct should be exemplified. That does not include the likes of a wannabe like Karpinski.

Posted by: Frederick Scheffler at May 5, 2004 06:12 PM

I am a former US Army Reserve MP Company Commander who served with then COL Karpinski in the 641st ASG out of Tampa Florida. I am shocked at the conditions these Iraqi men endured at Abu Ghraib. The unit that I commanded would have provided soldiers to guard the perimeter of a prison, but also trained to work inside of a prison.

Karpinski was a thorough and fair disciplinarian. So, it is equally fair to state that I am surprised that she did not immediately assess her situation, take her share of the blame and resign. So, I can only surmise that she knew nothing of this incident as she claims.

The real issue of my post, however, is the relationship stated about a First Sergeant (TOP) and the Company Commander in knowing what is going on with the soldiers under their command. It is hard to believe that someone in that chain had no idea that this was going on. The chain of command could not have been so blind as to not know that their soldiers were doing these things. Were there any follow up counseling with these soldiers? Personally--since I am still a Reserve Company Commander--I ensure that I ask my soldiers about activities that they are involved in outside of my immediate sphere of influence so as to ensure that if I needed to, I could brief my boss, the BN CDR, on any issues. Where was the leadership in this unit?

And, like the poster who posted the "I'm not trained" line, that is an excuse. Every reservist mobilized with their unit must be Duty Military Occupational Specialty Qualified (DMOSQ) before they leave home station during their call-up. Seems to me, if this Sergeant is claiming his lack of training as an excuse, I would hate to see what Virgina Prisons are like. Worse than Oz???

There were a lot of things that went wrong, but lets not blame the US Army Reserves. When utilized properly, the Reserves is the best friend to the active component.

Posted by: CPT B at May 5, 2004 09:52 PM

CPT B: Thanks for your service.

I agree and that's why I said in a piece called Guard and Reserve in which I make the same points.

What is described in the Taguba report is a complete failure of command to properly train, oversee and supervise their troops. That doesn't excuse the excesses the troops committed as it doesn't take a freakin' rocket scientist to know what is and isn't acceptable in prisoner treatment -- especially among MPs.

Posted by: McQ at May 6, 2004 04:37 PM

McQ, you have some good points.

Now, there is a story out about a Reserve Captain under the same sphere of command of the 800th MP BDE that is awaiting judgement on his offense of taking digital pictures of female Iraqi detainees in the shower!!

Accused captain returns home for discharge

By John Simerman

CONTRA COSTA TIMES

The Fremont Army commander who allegedly shot pictures of female soldiers in a shower area of the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq returned this week to the United States to be discharged from the force, a California National Guard spokesman said.

Capt. Leo Merck, 32, lost his command of Pittsburg's 870th Military Police Company after the November accusations. He arrived this week at Fort Lewis, Wash., where most of the 870th returned last month to process out of active duty after almost a year in Iraq.

It remained unclear Wednesday whether Merck was court-martialed or struck a deal to avoid it, said Lt. Col. Doug Hart of the California National Guard. Depending on the kind of discharge, Merck could lose some or all of his retirement benefits.

Merck had been working on a deal to include resigning his commission, a less-than-honorable discharge and possible jail time, said Guard sources. Army officials in Kuwait did not return calls.

Spc. Myrna Hernandez, 26, of Antioch told the Times on Tuesday that she and two other female soldiers were in the shower area when she spotted Merck on his hands and knees with a digital camera, peering under the shower door.

The alleged incident took place Nov. 12, she said, about a month after the 870th arrived to police the same Baghdad-area prison where other soldiers were captured on film merrily subjecting Iraqi inmates to naked humiliation.

Lt. Michael Drayton, who took over command of the 870th, said Wednesday that he found inappropriate pictures on the company laptop when he assumed command. The laptop was used as evidence in an investigation, he said. Drayton declined to describe what he saw, saying only, "It was pictures of females."

Merck, relieved of his command, quickly packed up his belongings and drove away from the prison and the more than 120 soldiers he commanded, said soldiers who witnessed his departure. He later went to Army headquarters in Kuwait to await disciplinary action.

Morale sunk, said Drayton.

"It was disbelief and it was shock: How can somebody they trust do this?" he said. "It's something you don't expect, to get stabbed in the back."

Merck, who is married, is an accountant in private life and had a spotless disciplinary record, according to the Guard. He joined the North Dakota Army National Guard in 1989, served 8 months in the first Gulf War and earned a bachelor's degree and an MBA from the University of North Dakota before moving to California.

In early 2002, he was assigned to command the 870th. Soldiers in the unit described him as a reserved and quiet commander. A call to his home went unreturned Wednesday. Merck's mother in North Dakota declined to comment.

Soldiers with the 870th described a prison where the work was long and dangerous, tiring and tedious, and where sexual energy and activity were rife.

Lory Manning, a retired Navy captain, said the allegations against Merck sound like a throwback.

"It typically happened more in the old days, where women were still a novelty and living all in the women's barracks together," said Manning, project director on Women in the Military with The Women's Research and Education Institute in Washington, D.C.

"That was before personal computers, where people could kind of store this stuff."

http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/news/8602175.htm?1c

Posted by: CPT B at May 6, 2004 07:01 PM

I do not buy any of this I did not receive proper training BS, any CO, who says I did not know what was going on, nor any of the excuses by these sick men and women from this unit. No CO can command from behind a desk period. Every soldier learns the Geneva Convention in basic training. I commanded a Hatchet Force Company in combat in Vietnam and one in Korea in the early 70's after Vietnam. I knew everything that went on in my company, with very few exceptions. Also the BN XO used to show up unannounced in my company area to include walking through the barracks. I did the same, too. We found out who was smoking dope, doing illegal things, and; we threw them out of the Army. The BN SGM used to show up unannounced and talk to all my NCO's,too. The BN Commander showed up unannounced, too.

I do not buy any of these excuses from anyone in this unit. The photos clearly show that those, who engaged in the degradation of Iraqi men, actually enjoyed what they were doing. The rumors that the BG was a dyke may be well founded based on the photos.

Posted by: Jon Potter at May 10, 2004 10:09 AM

As a military officer who has commanded troops in battle, I cannot explain away these acts by the reservist.

There is the issue of "lack of training". I don't want to beat up on the Reserves. Thirty nine days of training for military police work in a prison does not equal to 365 days of OJT.

Reservist do not train every drill on their military specialty. Some of those drills are administrative (Christmas meal/Family Day/safety standdowns). Most drills, many units are reporting less than 60% attendance, which is "reconstructed" when soldiers come in at odd times sixty days prior to the missed drill or 60 days after the missed drill. At any rate, they miss the collective training that took place during the drill weekend, and are assigned busy work tasks of counting weapons, clothing or chatting with the full time soldiers assigned to the unit.

Many MP units don't even get to see a prison during Annual Training. The MP Corps have two workhorse MOS (Military Occupational Specialty): 95Bravo (General, combat MP) and 95Charlie (Corrections). The 95 Bravo is supposed to be able to do it all, while the 95Charlie is a trained corrections officer. However, working in a military prison is more than just a weekend warrior type thing. There is training that is conducted, classroom in-services on procedure and then OJT. All of this cannot be captured in the days alloted for the training of reservist and mobilized units.

Again, I am not trying to cast a negative light on the Reserves and National Guard. Indeed, I was a reservist at one time, responsible for the handling of human remains on the battlefield (mortuary affairs). I can see where these guys were abused from the lack of command emphasis and oversight. I cannot excuse it altogether, though.

I still wonder how some of the others listed as abusers got to where they were. PVT Lindey was in administration (fingerprinting). There should have been some type of security in place to prevent the admin and mechanics listed out of that section of prison. This was a military intelligence/CIA owned section. The military intelligence section/CIA operates at levels above "SECRET" clearance, so how does the average MP, who cannot go above "SECRET" clearance get to "soften up" detainees?

At any rate, this is a lynch mob trial. It will look good, but the military is conducting a trial of itself. Somebody in the military chain of command placed those soldiers in an area they were not prepared to operate. Obviously, those leaders did more damage than any Jane Fonda could ever do.

Posted by: CPT B at May 11, 2004 10:43 PM