QandO

Where was Howard Dean? William Jefferson Clinton?By the way didn't Dick Gephart serve in the air national guard in the 1960s?

Posted by: donald hamilton at August 19, 2004 01:56 PM

To be correct, Dick Cheney had 5 student deferments and is quoted as saying "I had better things to do." As for Fettman's piece, nowhere does it say that Edwards used a student deferment. A Google search show nothing to that effect. In fact, when John Edwards was 18, his draft number was 178, and it ended before his number was called up. So for Fettmann to claim that Edwards "did the exact same thing" is to do so without sourcing anything to back it up.

Posted by: sean at August 19, 2004 02:03 PM

Correct me if I am wrong for 1971, but I believe you registered at 18 and the selective service numbers (birthdays) were pulled for 20 year-olds. You were notified until the numbers needed were fulfilled. So you were not drafted at age 18 but you had to register. Also, if you skated through on the numbers game of the lottery at age 20 then, basically, you never had anything to worry about from then on.

If you were classified as 1-A (college and progressing on a degree) it was an automatic deferment. But I believe you had to report once you graduated (bachelor's) or had to reapply for 1-A deferrment to continue in college.

Kerry was drafted but got the 1-A deferrment, so did Cheney, I do not know about Bush but that is probably the same for him too. Edwards wouldn't have been in the draft until 1973. I do not know when the draft became a non-issue but it wasn't an issue in 1975.

They were all drafted. Kerry tried for an additional deferrment and was rejected. Cheney apparently wasn't rejected. Bush was in the same boat (pardon the pun) with Kerry but I do not know if he asked for additional deferrment upon graduation.

Another thing (and I welcome correction where I am wrong), after you got your notice, you still had time to volunteer (it was a 2 yr draft vs 4 yr volunteer). I believe draftees all went to army - little to no choice on that. If volunteering, you pretty much had the choice of service (based on service needs) and a lot more choice on what to do in the branch. Kerry volunteered to avoid being drafted, as, I think, Bush did. Cheney got his deferrments. I am guessing that Edwards wasn't presented with having to make these decisions.

Posted by: John at August 19, 2004 03:14 PM

Lieberman also received a number of student and family deferments.

Posted by: Lance Jonn Romanoff at August 19, 2004 03:58 PM

I wonder had Cheney been a real man and served his country honorably and only started making babies afterwards, if he might have prevented homosexual offspring? I don't know if it's in the genes or is a choice, but something about the Cheney family has led to this abomination. Homosexuality is an evil and vile sin. There seems to be an unholy alliance between a President who says, "I trust God speaks through me. Without that, I couldn’t do my job," and a Vice President with a homosexual lineage. As this is of crucial importance to the fabric of society and Western civilization itself, it seems worth examining this unexplored connection. There's something just not quite right about one man so close to God and another so close to Evil making decisions effecting America and the world.

Posted by: Christian at August 19, 2004 06:42 PM

Hey Christian tone down the crazy a little bit.

As far a Cheney having better things to do, it seems he was right. He's obviously got some talent better served else where, and i'm not sure that frame would do well on the front lines.

Posted by: jason at August 19, 2004 06:45 PM

Uh, yeah, Christian? This isn't a Christian blog. I am not a Christian, certainly. To the extent I am religious, I am more or less Diest. And I have serious doubts about that.

But I'm pretty much uninterested in sitting through any more "homosexuality is a sin" lectures.

Oh, and since Western Civilization is an outgrowth of Classical Greek culture, and Greeks were pretty much openly bisexual, I'm not sure how much effect Dick Cheney's daughter has on the course of Western Civ.

Posted by: Dale Franks at August 19, 2004 07:37 PM

Edwards registered for the draft in 1971 when he turned 18. IIRC, he received a high lottery
number for induction, and was never called to serve.

And your point would be what, exactly?

Posted by: Becky at August 19, 2004 11:42 PM

The key thing with Kerry is that he got a two-year marriage deferrment in '64, which carried him through the end of his eligibility. And anyway, the draft wasn't really in high gear yet in the mid-60s.

Posted by: John A. Kalb at August 20, 2004 12:06 AM

Well Sean your facts are FUBARed. First of all the draft lottery was started 1969 with the first drawing held on 2 December 1969. The first lottery covered males between the ages of 18 and 26 years of age. Each year there after only included 19 year olds until the draft was suspended in 1973 when the all volunteer military started.

In point of fact Sean your so far of base your citation of lottery number [based on his birthday of June 10, 1953] for Edwards of #176 doesn't even fit if he were eligible in 1971. "His number" in 1971 was 076, not 176,. The lottery held on February 2, 1972 covered Edwards and for all those born in 1953. His number was 178.

I really don't know your source but they are plainly not of this planet. We all would love to carry on an intelligent discourse with you but the evidence suggests the odds are against it.

"So for Fettmann to claim that Edwards "did the exact same thing" is to do so without sourcing anything to back it up." -- Sean See what I mean Sean, the odds are enormous.

And before you ask, my number was 315 the year I was eligible. And yes like Cheney, Bush, Clinton and many others I would have been in Canada or had joined the Navy or Coast Guard to avoid the nightmare Vietnam was by that time. As luck would have it that year the projected highest number to be drafted was 225.

PS John and Becky your both corrected also. Just not as vociferously as Sean who takes great delight in slamming someone for unsourced material but does so himself and provides trash as a result.

Posted by: Marc at August 20, 2004 11:13 AM

This is an interesting conversation. To summarize my understanding can someone address these questions?

1) Did Kerry apply for any deferrments during the Vietnam War?

2) How many and of what type were they?

3) Has Kerry signed the so-called "Standard form 180"?

4) When was his service in the USN or its reserve component officially concluded?

and 5)
Did Kerry meet with officials from North Vietnam in Paris and if so, when?

Just trying to get the facts
Thanks

Posted by: Brent at September 7, 2004 04:21 AM