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Good Luck President Obama
Posted by: McQ on Tuesday, January 20, 2009

It is a little early, I know, but I have things to do and people to see and won't be around the tube when Barack Obama becomes the 44th President of the United States.

But I sincerely want to wish him the best. I don't think he has any idea of what he's stepping into, but I hope he's able to rise to the challenge.

I read a story last night that said he was cool, calm and joking the day before assuming the office of President. It reminded me of my 1st parachute jump in Jump School. I too was cool, calm and joking as we chuted up for that first jump. I had absolutely no frame of reference for what I was about to do. But with the training I had undertaken in the 34 foot tower and the 200 ft tower, I pretty much figured I understood all I needed to know and, frankly, didn't think the jump would be that much different.

In fact I had no idea whatsoever of what it really was like to jump from a perfectly good airplane at 140 knots and 1100 feet. When I chuted up to make my second jump, it was a much more quiet, somber and reflective person (who was quietly terrified now that I knew what to expect). I think that sometime this week, Barack Obama will be in much the same frame of mind that I was when I headed out for my 2nd jump.

Unlike the left, I'm not playing this "he's not my President" nonsense. I may not have voted for him, but he is my President. And I wish him well. That doesn't mean, however, that he has my blessing to do things to which I am philosophically opposed. I will vigorously oppose those things. What I don't plan on doing is descending into personal attacks and hate-filled rhetoric that so characterized much of the left's opposition this past 8 years. What I do plan on doing is reminding the left about how they acted in the same situation. Today they will pretend history begins at noon and that any attack on Obama or his policies is out of bounds. I will agree, for the most part to the former, but I categorically reject the latter.

All of that said, I wish President Obama success on those things in which we find common ground. And I promise him dogged but respectful opposition to those on which we disagree. I understand, no matter how much we disagree, that in reality Barack Obama has the best interest of the country at heart. But the same stands true for me. However, as the left never seems to learn, opposition does not have to mean hate.

So good luck President Obama. You can count on hearing from me on these pages often and mostly in opposition. That's the American way. And, ironically, I understand that you know that, even if most of your supporters don't.
 
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Yes, he’ll need a good deal of luck to buck the negative trends we’re seeing in many areas. It’s not just the financial mess, though that might still get a lot worse as more ARMs reset and more people go out of work and can’t pay their mortgages and credit card debt.

His first term gets to the edge of the point that Social Security begins seriously running out of money. Medicare’s financial footing gets worse every year.

Iran would love to have nukes, and absent the Israelis taking action is probably going to have them. It’s likely that the Islamic supremacists will use Bush’s exit as an opportunity to test US resolve in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Pakistan.

Britain, Ireland, Italy, Spain, and Greece are all in serious financial trouble, worse than ours. This is bad for our export markets. I suspect Germany and France have a good deal more trouble than they’re letting on because they are trying to keep confidence in the Euro in the face of several members of the European collective (namely, four of the five named above) getting into financial trouble.

So he does indeed need luck. I think his best chances for getting it are in the Middle East, oddly enough. We may (repeat, may) have reached a tipping point there where the Islamic supremacists just don’t have the manpower and resources to throw legitimate governments into turmoil. Iran might spiral into problems of their own, fueled by their decreasing oil production and dropping oil prices, thereby becoming less of a threat and maybe even starting down the road away from theocracy.

His lefty base is going to give him trouble when they realize Obama’s presidency is not a bedtime fairy tale where everyone lives happily ever after. I don’t think they’ll lapse into derangement as they did at Bush; well, not as many of them, at any rate. But they’ll constantly be attempting to distract the administration with hobby-horses, and they’ll attempt to snipe any attempts to use sanity in economics to solve problems.

I’m skeptical that the guys moving the pieces around trying to save the financial system can actually do it without widespread economic hardship, but stranger things have happened. Perhaps the economy still has unsuspected reservoirs of strength that will get growth back on track. We’re still sorting through the impact of technology of lots of businesses, and technological innovation probably isn’t going to slow down much. I didn’t think Reagan could recover from the Carter mess, but he did, so I’m not saying Obama can’t do it. But it will be hard, and take some luck too, I think.

So I hope he does well. I don’t think he will, because I’ve seen no evidence his economic thinking is grounded in reality enough to make the right decisions. But I’d love to be proven wrong.
 
Written By: Billy Hollis
URL: http://qando.net
Bruce’s sentiments, Billy’s points.

It’s going to be tough going and he IS my President too, even if I also didn’t vote for him.
Realistically ODS isn’t any more helpful than BDS was.
If Bush needed our support at times, then it’s going to go doubly for Obama because he’s hitching himself up to a known sh!tstorm and is going to try and rein it in. I sure as hell am not going to start the game assuming he’s always going to be on a different team than mine.

Good luck to him, and God Bless him and America.
 
Written By: looker
URL: http://
I pledge to let my President know when he screws up.
 
Written By: Neo
URL: http://
OMG it’s the end of the world! Just kidding, me and my friends are celebrating by being nice to righties today. It’s the least we can do really.
 
Written By: TomD
URL: http://
So pay attention, and see how adults deal with disappointment and the knowledge there might be disagreements.
 
Written By: looker
URL: http://
It’s +44 mins into the Lightworker’s ascendancy, and I still haven’t gotten my unicorn!

- I wish the new President - my president - luck.

His supporters however, can go to he*l
 
Written By: shark
URL: http://
Most of Obama’s supporters are not rabid partisans of the left. Most of us who opposed President Bush’s policies tried hard to avoid personal attacks. I do think you tend to over-emphasize the size of the ’hard core left,’ Obama’s support comes from the center and left — pragmatists like me who don’t like ideology and hyper-partisanship. In fact, I was struck by how much Obama’s speech reflected my opinions, I feel like I actually have a President now who thinks like I do...that gives me hope. But right now the partisans of the left and right need to recognize we’re in this together, we share common values, and our country faces crises that requires we recognize that common sense of moral purpose, even if we disagree about policies. I’m heartened by Obama’s reaching out to conservatives, having the conservative Pastor give the invocation, and working to symbolically work towards cooperation and pragmatic compromise instead of partisan and personal rhetoric.

I see Obama is escorting Bush to the helocopter, showing him what David Gergen just called "personal respect." That’s a touch of class...and George W. Bush has shown class and dignity in this transition. I think if one puts aside partisanship, it’s easy to have respect for both Presidents Bush and Obama.
 
Written By: Scott Erb
URL: http://scotterb.wordpress.com
I decided to watch Spongebob instead of his inauguration. It’s going to be long four years. Hopefully by the end of it enough of his supporters have figured out what the hell is going on and we can elect someone who knows what he’s doing. But then again, we’ve not elected someone who knows what he’s doing since 1984.
 
Written By: Jason
URL: http://
I think if one puts aside partisanship, it’s easy to have respect for both Presidents Bush and Obama
.

WELL WHAT TOOK YOU SO F**KING LONG....
 
Written By: shark
URL: http://
The true show of class is when you are a loser, not a winner. So I am not as impressed by current bipartisan actions by the left.

Its easy to be a gracious winner, but really you need to not be a sore loser. The left should keep that in mind the next time their side loses an election. But I doubt that will happen.


 
Written By: Harun
URL: http://
"pragmatists like me who don’t like ideology"

Real pragmatists choose ideas and policies that work, as opposed to those that don’t.
 
Written By: timactual
URL: http://
Let us all pray that our new President doesn’t turn out to be the poster child for what is wrong with affirmative action.
 
Written By: Neo
URL: http://
Shark, I’ve been respectful of President Bush pretty consistently — in both my blog and comments. I’ve also tried to avoid personal attacks in responses to this blog. I think people make a big error when they turn political disagreement into personal animosity. And since few of us know the political leaders personally, or even each other more than a few blog comments, most personal claims and statements about others is imagination-driven rather than based on anything real about the person.

Timactual: exactly! We need policies that work. Clearly, most recent policies have not. They may have been well intentioned, but they haven’t worked.
 
Written By: Scott Erb
URL: http://scotterb.wordpress.com
It’s +1:18 since Lightworker gained omnipotence.

Has Bush been detained and arrested yet?
Shark, I’ve been respectful of President Bush pretty consistently
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA......good one Scotty
 
Written By: shark
URL: http://
Wow Neo, did you put your pointy hood on to make that crack?
 
Written By: Retief
URL: http://
But right now the partisans of the left and right need to recognize we’re in this together, we share common values, and our country faces crises that requires we recognize that common sense of moral purpose, even if we disagree about policies.
But there was no need to recognize that for the past eight years. Fongul.
We need policies that work. Clearly, most recent policies have not. They may have been well intentioned, but they haven’t worked.
I wonder why so many of them are slated to be retained, then? Va fongul.
 
Written By: Phil Smith
URL: http://
Geez. Today is like watching your good friend marry that guy that she knows is no good for her, just because she’s pregnant. You really want to be happy for her, because you know that today is going to be the happiest day she’ll have in a long, long time.

Put on that silly bridesmaid dress and smile, people...
 
Written By: Wacky Hermit
URL: http://organicbabyfarm.blogspot.com
Phil, I’ve got a couple of little links for you.
 
Written By: Retief
URL: http://
Shark, I’ve been respectful of President Bush pretty consistently
If you consider declaring the War in Iraq a war of Nazi-like Aggression or understand that even though Bush allowed violent acts unlike any seen before in history, I mean if you overlook the fact that I’ve called the POTUS a Nazi, an aggressor, and the sanctioner of WAR CRIMES, I’ve been very ,very respectful...

As Inago Montoya said, "I doan t’ink that word means what you t’ink it means."
 
Written By: Joe
URL: http://
what is wrong with affirmative action
Wow Neo, did you put your pointy hood on to make that crack?
Let’s see .. half-Black guy with less experience than any President in at least the last half century. Sounds like a setup for failure.
But don’t forget, he has Joe Biden there to help him.
 
Written By: Neo
URL: http://
But he also has compared himself to Ronald Reagan, saying he’d like to be a similarly transformative leader, albeit from a different ideological perspective. Only time will tell how successful he will be on that front.

But the analogy may be apt in ways that he and his supporters may not fully appreciate. By hastening the end of the Cold War, Reagan took away the defining cause of the conservative movement. The right had other issues, to be sure. But anti-communism was the coalitional glue. And while all principled conservatives were happy to trade a live campaign issue for a dead Soviet Union, the damage to conservative cohesion was real.

If Obama lives up to the dreams of his biggest supporters in writing a new, post-racial chapter for America, he will have at once done more for America than any Democratic president in generations.
 
Written By: Neo
URL: http://
It is now +2:24 into the Lightworker era.....have we received the word from Iran yet that they’re dismantling their nuke program because they love us now?
 
Written By: shark
URL: http://
It is now +2:24 into the Lightworker era.....have we received the word from Iran yet that they’re dismantling their nuke program because they love us now?
Let me put in a call and see if they’ve at least stopped burning Obama in effigy. BRB
 
Written By: Titus Quinn
URL: http://
been respectful of President Bush pretty consistently
Yeah, and it was "respectful" right up until the very end, the spiteful children taunting and mocking him right there at the very last seconds.

He laid everything on the line for them, and the ungrateful brats showed true to form.

Nothing personal there huh?

Make way for the flavor of the month I suppose.
 
Written By: shark
URL: http://
Hey, I’ll take respectful opposition even if it is done with the backhand to the opposition about their failure to be respectful.

But I have to ask, if by respectful we mean opposing policy but never being mean or personal, what do we make of these...

"the Clown" Marsden

"the One" Michael W.

"The Messiah" jt007

"Lightworker" shark

"Dem’s (spit)" docjim505

"The Annointed One" docjim505
So there’s no excuse. I’m already getting my "Obama lied, people died" signs ready.

Written By: shark
How is this different that Chimpy McHalliburton Smirkster and The Shrub, and Dumbya?

20,400 Google hits on "Obama is not my President" in quotes.

The right is very capable of being disrepectful to a President, don’t sell yourselves short (see Clinton Presidency). But I would be thrilled to see you all show respectful disagreement even if that respect were born of a desire to show the left that you’re better than them.




 
Written By: CaptinSarcastic
URL: http://
Most of Obama’s supporters are not rabid partisans of the left because by definition we wise leftists are not rabid. The holy writ of post-modernism tells us so.

Most of us who opposed President Bush’s policies tried hard to avoid personal attacks. By that, I mean most of us rationed our chimp jokes to just four or five a week. Of course, there were always a few who got a bit over-the-top, but can you blame them really, after the Bush’s administrations actions which as I’ve told you before were like the Nazis and the Imperial Japanese? And calling Bush a Nazi is not a personal attack, no matter what you righties think. I decree it. By the holy writ of post-modernism, a word means exactly what I want it to mean, and if I define "respect" to include calling someone a Nazi, then that’s my prerogitive because I have godlike powers of political science and you guys are just a bunch of ex-military basket cases.

I do think you tend to over-emphasize the size of the ’hard core left,’ Obama’s support comes from the center and left — pragmatists like me who don’t like ideology and hyper-partisanship. Yep, I just hate hyper-partisanship, and don’t start with how I called the Bush administration a "regime" just yesterday, just don’t start! Because, as I said above, I get to define words however I want, and change the meanings whenever I feel like it.

In fact, I was struck by how much Obama’s speech reflected my opinions. In other words, he’s knows exactly how to make leftist rhetoric sound soaring and non-socialist, and just like him, I like that because it soothes people who have been induced by dense righties to distrust socialism. I feel like I actually have a President now who thinks like I do, and of course since I’m so wise and smart, that’s a good thing...it gives me hope. Hope that things will change, and change will be good and sweet and magical, as long as it’s a wise leftist doing it.

But right now the partisans of the left and right need to recognize we’re in this together. Of course, when we were in Iraq, we most definitely were not in it together, since you basket-base, ex-military righties caused the biggest foreign policy disaster in US history, where the violence is going to spiral out of control any moment now, just you wait. Yes, we wise leftists knew when to sabotage everything the Bush administration was trying to do in foreign policy, as well as blocking his efforts to rein in sub-prime loans to those deserving poor people who probably can’t pay them back. And of course, his attempts to do anything about the glorious edifice of Social Security, which is not either going to bankrupt us, so stop saying that.

His actions in those areas would have been cruel, so we had to pull out all the stops to block them. You know how it is. But you dense righties just need to trust us and bend over and, sorry, I mean allow us to use our 53% mandate to completely change the world. We share common values, or at least we would if you dense righties would wise up and embrace pacifism and socialism. Yes, you righties just need to get with the program, if you know what’s good for you, because our country faces crises that requires we recognize that common sense of moral purpose, even if we disagree about policies. Yep, your moral purposes are the same as ours, even you misguided religious types and you individualists that still believe in freedom and capitalism. I decree it. They’re the same, they are, they are, they are!

I’m heartened by Obama’s reaching out to conservatives, having the conservative Pastor give the invocation, and working to symbolically work towards cooperation and pragmatic compromise instead of partisan and personal rhetoric. Because that symbolism means you are a lot less likely to see the knife coming when we stab all those stupid conservative principles in the back and get on with having a leftist utopia.

 
Written By: Ott Scerb
URL: http://SeeMyBlogPostOnHowYouCanCallSomeoneANaziAndStillRespectThem.liar/leftist/tool/
But I would be thrilled to see you all show respectful disagreement even if that respect were born of a desire to show the left that you’re better than them.
An obvious trap.

In the immortal words of Chimpy McHalliburton Dumbya Smirkster the Shrub, "Fool me once, shame on you . . . c-can’t get fooled again!"
 
Written By: Titus Quinn
URL: http://
born of a desire to show the left that you’re better than them.


Nah, as a rule, we are, but you already knew that.

Children, and it showed during the inauguration.
Trailer trash, No class, children.

Half the names you cite were given by the left, not the right. Can some folks help it if they’re swept up in the lefty euphoria (snark)?

"The one"? It would help if that hadn’t been coined by the left wouldn’t it?
"lightworker" - again, nice try
Messiah?
Chris Matthews likens this to New Testament stuff - who, what?


Not my President - lead hit from Google? Huffpo - nice.
go do some Googlefu before you toss around a number like that with the conviction that it’s not multiple references to same articles, not explanations of "what it means" and, not all "the right" using the phrase. Cripes what a lousy example.

Obama, I’ll cut slack...you guys? No chance.

 
Written By: looker
URL: http://
Sens. Kennedy and Byrd collapsed at the festivities and were taken to the hospital....
 
Written By: shark
URL: http://
So there’s no excuse. I’m already getting my "Obama lied, people died" signs ready.

Written By: shark
How is this different that Chimpy McHalliburton Smirkster and The Shrub, and Dumbya?
Motive. My motive is simply "tit for tat"

Consider it a teachable moment.
 
Written By: shark
URL: http://
Sens. Kennedy and Byrd collapsed at the festivities and were taken to the hospital....
With Kennedy’s illness and Byrd’s age, that’s not too surprising. Not to wish them ill will, but I’m afraid neither is likely to play much role in the Age of Obama.

Unfortuately, this means we’ll now probably have to suffer through a rash of "changing of the guard" pieces from lazy pundits.
 
Written By: Billy Hollis
URL: http://qando.net
Motive. My motive is simply "tit for tat"
And if they defined their motive as tit-for-tat for the treatement of President Clinton?

You would be perpetuating childishness!

Didn’t you hear, it’s time to put away childish things, YOUR president said so!
Obama, I’ll cut slack...you guys? No chance.
Not that I care, but have ever seen me post something personal, hateful, or disrespectful about the outgoing administration?

I have tried to be respectful in my discourse, and though I have certainly failed on occasion, I believe I have held up my end well enough to say that I cannot be grouped with those you like to call the BDS afflicted.
With Kennedy’s illness and Byrd’s age, that’s not too surprising. Not to wish them ill will, but I’m afraid neither is likely to play much role in the Age of Obama.
Kennedy will get the healthcare bill done, if it is literally the last thing he does.

 
Written By: CaptinSarcastic
URL: http://
Kennedy will get the healthcare bill done, if it is literally the last thing he does.
He will try. Whether he’s got enough time on the clock to get it through, considering the higher priorities of the economic mess, is the question. Again, not to wish him ill will, but I don’t want to see him succeed.

Especially if the Democrats pitch it as some kind of "grant this dying man his last wish" kind of nonsense. Policy making of that magnitude does not need to be driven by sentimentalism.
 
Written By: Billy Hollis
URL: http://qando.net
Motive. My motive is simply "tit for tat"
And if they defined their motive as tit-for-tat for the treatement of President Clinton?

You would be perpetuating childishness!

Didn’t you hear, it’s time to put away childish things, YOUR president said so!
He’s my President, not my king. I’ll take his sentiment under advisement. In the meantime, he’ll continue to get the treatment.
 
Written By: shark
URL: http://
Neo said:
Let us all pray that our new President doesn’t turn out to be the poster child for what is wrong with affirmative action.
And Retief followed with:
Wow Neo, did you put your pointy hood on to make that crack?
Retief, Neo stated he did NOT want President Obama to become a poster child for affirmative action. I understood immediately what Neo meant. Are you familiar with the Bakke decision? A white student with better grades was passed over for admission to medical school in favor of Patrick Chavis, a black student. During the heated campaign for California’s prop 209 Senatator Kennedy said of Chavis:
During the Proposition 209 campaign, his name was difficult to escape. Sen. Edward Kennedy (D., Mass.) called him a "perfect example of the enormous dividends affirmative action has paid."
However, as if to illustrate the incompetence of said Senator this happened.
Then came the fall from grace. Two months ago, citing his "inability to perform some of the most basic duties required of a physician, Judge Samuel Reyes ordered Dr. Chaviss license suspended. His "gross negligence and "incompetence had led to the death of one patient and near-fatal injuries to others. Allowing Chavis to continue practicing medicine, the judge wrote, would "endanger the public health, safety, and welfare.
Retief, that Neo would pray that something similar does NOT befall President Obama and draws an accusation from you that Neo is basically a KKK’er is absurd.
If you want to read the article on Chavis and his fall from what Senator Kennedy labeled "perfect example of the enormous dividends affirmative action has paid." then go here.
 
Written By: tom scott
URL: http://
may you live in interesting times...

May God bless and protect President Obama and the United States.
 
Written By: Keith_Indy
URL: http://asecondhandconjecture.com
Of course, there is the regular ...
 
Written By: Neo
URL: http://
On a serious note, I keep wondering just why Hiliary wants to take the Sec of State position.

Consider the idea that if Obama fires her at some point, she can’t easily go back to the Senate .. leaving her exactly where ? .. no where

Talk about keeping your enemies close.
 
Written By: Neo
URL: http://
ffffffffff....fffff...fire? fire? FIRE?
Hillary? Fire Hillary?
OMG!
You sir are, are, a, a, something really bad!
 
Written By: looker
URL: http://
Cap, Retief, et al:

We didn’t throw eggs at him on his way in, like your side. And when he leaves, we won’t sing taunts like inebriated college football fans, like your side. Your side has retired the trophy for childishness.
 
Written By: Phil Smith
URL: http://
We didn’t throw eggs at him on his way in, like your side. And when he leaves, we won’t sing taunts like inebriated college football fans, like your side. Your side has retired the trophy for childishness.
We will likely never have the same circumstances in reverse, an election where the popular vote winner loses the electoral vote because the vote count in a game changing state was stopped in a 5 to 4 vote of the Supreme Court, but if we did, I guarantee, your side would be every bit as ugly.

Did you hear the inner circle of McCain supporters as he gave his concession speech? Did they invite a Phoenix trailer park as an audience? Did you hear the McCain supporters at their rally’s? Seriously.

We both have people who behave in ways we are not proud of on our respective "sides", all I can do is manage my own personal behavior, and whatever you want to say about rude people on the "left", if you direct it at me (and I’m not saying you are), you’ll need to cite rudeness on my part.

 
Written By: CaptinSarcastic
URL: http://
We will likely never have the same circumstances in reverse, an election where the popular vote winner loses the electoral vote because the vote count in a game changing state was stopped in a 5 to 4 vote of the Supreme Court, but if we did, I guarantee, your side would be every bit as ugly.
Of course you can’t "guarantee" that at all. That’s an unfounded claim in which you try to absolve the bratty and totally reprehensible behavior of the left by imagining the right would have done the same.

And there were two Supreme Court decisions. Look ’em up. Essentially what the unanimous SCOTUS decision said was "FL Supreme Court, you can’t change the rules on the fly - you have to stick with them as they were when the election was held".
 
Written By: McQ
URL: http://www.QandO.net
I do think you tend to over-emphasize the size of the ’hard core left...
What this entirely misses, Scott, it the extent that the center left downplays the antics of the far left. Your silence is in fact a tacit approval of the rhetoric, the juvenile antics, and the outright belligerence.

Had you and your ’reasonable’ colleagues of the left had the courage to call upon your own side to grow up, then you would see much less of what you call this site’s over-emphasis of the hard-cores.
 
Written By: bains
URL: http://
I’m really amazed with the Lott "We are all Bush-haters now" piece.

Given that this guy also writes for the American Spectator, a known den of right-wing bomb throwers, it’s really interesting to see a real Janus in action.

I wonder if he is related to “Excitable Andy” … perhaps a clone.
 
Written By: Neo
URL: http://
We will likely never have the same circumstances in reverse, an election where the popular vote winner loses the electoral vote because the vote count in a game changing state was stopped in a 5 to 4 vote of the Supreme Court, but if we did, I guarantee, your side would be every bit as ugly.
My my, a night for disappointments. I thought you were sane and rational.
You have a really short memory and/or you’ve chosen to distort history.

Remember the recount commissioned by all those media outlets, sigh sigh sigh, all turned out Bush would have won a recount.
NO! down the memory hole with that.

That the rules were changed on the fly? No! down the memory hole with that.
I really thought better of you, and you’ve turned out to be a partisan hack.

We have an electoral system, and always have, no surprise. This popular vote crap is just that, crap.
 
Written By: looker
URL: http://
And there were two Supreme Court decisions. Look ’em up. Essentially what the unanimous SCOTUS decision said was "FL Supreme Court, you can’t change the rules on the fly - you have to stick with them as they were when the election was held".
There were two Supreme court decisions, the key decision was the party line 5 to 4 vote saying that the first 7 to 2 decision should not be allowed to be remedied, and that first decision was NOT that Florida needed to "stick with the rules as they were when the election was held", it was that Florida’s recount rules themselves were in violation of the Equal Protection clause of the 14th Amendment, which could easily have been fixed, and moreover, most states (34) TODAY are currently in violation of this same clause by virtue of the fact of the fact they have COUNTY election boards which get to determine their own manner determining the "intent of the voter", obviously precluding equal protection. But SCOTUS knew this, which is why they stated in the decision "Our consideration is limited to the present circumstances, or the problem of equal protection in election processes generally presents many complexities.". This is known as the "this train only" clause, meaning no one should use this case as precedent for other states who have the exact same unequal setup.
The petition presents the following questions: whether the Florida Supreme Court established new standards for resolving Presidential election contests, thereby violating Art. II, §1, cl. 2, of the United States Constitution and failing to comply with 3 U.S.C. § 5 and whether the use of standardless manual recounts violates the Equal Protection and Due Process Clauses. With respect to the equal protection question, we find a violation of the Equal Protection Clause.
Three justices found that the Florida SC violated Article II by "changing the rules", six Justices (a majority) disagreed with this finding.
Remember the recount commissioned by all those media outlets, sigh sigh sigh, all turned out Bush would have won a recount.
Really, all?

Maybe all except an actual statewide recount as was in process when SCOTUS shut it down...
The Recount Tally. The final tally of December 2000 did not actually recount all of the state’s ballots. There were the now-famous disputes over chads, hanging chads, and dimples, with different judgments among counties and counters. If these disputes had been consistently resolved and any uniform standard applied, the NORC study show, the electoral result would have been reversed, but by the thinnest of margins. If there had been a constant statewide recount, Gore would have won, but by merely one hundred votes, approximately. For example, if ballots were counted only if holes went completely through punch cards, Gore would win by 115. If even "dimples" were permitted, Gore would have won by 107:
That the rules were changed on the fly? No! down the memory hole with that.
According to Six Supreme Court Justices, the rules were not changed, the problem was that the rules as they existed violated the 14th Amendment. I won’t call you a partisan hack for not knowing this.
We have an electoral system, and always have, no surprise. This popular vote crap is just that, crap.
I never believed Gore should have won because he won the popular vote, it’s just a part of the story that helped fan the flames that the rest of the story stoked.

I wasn’t happy with the outcome, but I accepted it, and never suggested that Bush was not my President.

Within eight months of the Inauguration, I have to assume that the 92% of Americans who approved of George Bush must have accepted him as their President as well. What do you think?



 
Written By: CaptinSarcastic
URL: http://
There were two Supreme court decisions...
I believe that’s what I said. That’s not what you tried to pass off as fact though, was it?
that first decision was NOT that Florida needed to "stick with the rules as they were when the election was held",
I don’t believe I said a single word about it being the first decision, did I?

Need to read a little more closely and do a little less spinning, Cap.

And what about this? Seems you skipped it:
Of course you can’t "guarantee" that at all. That’s an unfounded claim in which you try to absolve the bratty and totally reprehensible behavior of the left by imagining the right would have done the same.
 
Written By: McQ
URL: http://www.QandO.net
Bains, the center-right downplays the antics of the far right too. But let’s see what happens. I really think its time to put ideology behind us, ideological world-views tend to create really warped perspectives of reality. I like Obama because I finally have a President who, to be blunt, seems to think like me. I find myself identifying with his ideas and his pragmatism.

And yes, the two sides should still argue about policies — health care, responses to global warming, welfare, stimulus, etc. — all these deserve vigorous debate. What needs to change is both sides should respect that while their perspectives are different, all but the most extreme share the same core values. Those were real Americans supporting Obama today, just as real Americans were supporting Bush when he was inaugurated. The only anti-Americans are those who mock our system and the people who support either side.

And generally I think Q&O and the commentators have been pretty good in response to Obama’s election.

I wrote this on November 5, 2004:

A lot of Kerry supporters these days are depressed by the election result. That’s understandable; the election was close and emotional. But people do need to keep perspective, whether your side won or lost. Another election will come, and people can still be active and work for causes they believe. It’s important people don’t lose their idealism; disappointed idealists often become bitter cynics, and that’s a fate I wouldn’t wish on anybody!
 
Written By: Scott Erb
URL: http://faculty.umf.maine.edu/~erb/blog.htm
I believe that’s what I said. That’s not what you tried to pass off as fact though, was it?
I guess I should have italicized were two decisions, because NEITHER majority decision held that Florida was found to have "changed the rules", the first decision, the 7 to 2 decision, was that there were Constitutional problems, but the majority decision was that THE Constitutional problem was NOT Article II (changing the rules), but rather the 14th Amendment equal protection clause. The second decision was also NOT a finding that Florida changed the rules, it was the decision that determined that Florida would not be allowed to remedy the equal protection problems, and this came down on a 5 to 4 party line vote.

There was NO majority decision that found that Florida changed the rules. The only place such a finding can be seen is the Scalia minority concurrance, which three Justices agreed with and six disagreed.

How much plainer can I make this, the Supreme Court of the United States did NOT find that Florida changed the rules, this was a minority opinion.

I’m not spinning here. I don’t know whether you don’t understand what I am saying, or you are spinning yourself, or just being obtuse.
Of course you can’t "guarantee" that at all. That’s an unfounded claim in which you try to absolve the bratty and totally reprehensible behavior of the left by imagining the right would have done the same.
As soon as the same circumstances occur in reverse and Republicans behave with civility, you will have made your case, as of now, I will guarantee they would behave in similar fashion. Neither of us can prove what would happen, but your argument that since it hasn’t happened to Republicans you can suggest that they would behave differently is no different than my argument that they would not. If you don’t like my guarantee, then I’ll just say that I am as confident that Republicans would behave badly as you are that they would not.

At least I have a basis for my argument, being the way Republicans behaved at rallies this past year.

Here’s my evidence of how Republicans CAN behave...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Esocs9qPRY&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPJjeZBvwaI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fieGfc6DL7k&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1vM0pj80nM&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfTaQ2xXhZ8&feature=related

There are hundreds of these.

There are hundreds of videos of Democrats behaving badly.

This doesn’t tell me that they are so different in their capability to be uncivil, it tells me they can be the same.

But I’ll tell you what, if I see a Democrat behaving poorly, I’ll tell them, I have in the past, I will in the future. That’s what all well behaved people on different sides should ask of each other.



 
Written By: CaptinSarcastic
URL: http://
Captain Sarcastic, your attempt to associate BDS with the mess in Florida is way off base because Democrats hated George Bush well before the election. As just two examples of many, the NAACP’s National Voter Fund ran its hideous ad associating George Bush with the horrifc murder of James Byrd in September 2000. Democrats said it was about hate crime legislation, but given that one of the perpetrators was given the death penalty and his accomplice was given life in prison without parole, the criticism in the ad didn’t make any sense. There was no way to increase the sanctions handed down in that case unless they executed the accomplice as well. It was Bush/Republican hatred pure and simple. An attempt to associate them with homicidal bigots. And don’t try to say that Democrats weren’t responsible for the ad. In that same election, 90% of african americans voted for Gore and Donna Brazile (Gore’s african american campaign manager in 2000) said that blacks were one of the four pillars of the Democratic party.

There was also the Radio City fundraiser in September 2000, where the intellectual giants of Hollywood like Ben Affleck and Matt Damon called Bush stupid, Chevy Chase said he was venal and evil, and Julia Roberts said "Republican was in the dictionary between reptilian and repugnant". Democrats didn’t need Florida to be angry and hateful, they were that way long before the election. Nice try.

 
Written By: jt007
URL: http://
As soon as the same circumstances occur in reverse and Republicans behave with civility, you will have made your case...
My ’case’ has already been made, i.e. your claim is conjecture and you have nothing but your imagination to back it up. What part of that don’t you understand?

Meanwhile we have video evidence of my case against the left.

Guess who has the stronger argument?
 
Written By: McQ
URL: http://www.QandO.net
Captain Sarcastic also said
But I have to ask, if by respectful we mean opposing policy but never being mean or personal, what do we make of these..."The Messiah" jt007...How is this different that Chimpy McHalliburton Smirkster and The Shrub, and Dumbya?
These are different because George Bush obviously isn’t a chimp, he has absolutely nothing to do with Halliburton (and Halliburton isn’t evil anyway), he isn’t dumb etc. etc. See, those personal attacks have nothing to do with reality. They are nonsensical.

In contrast, there is a factual basis for me calling Obama "the messiah". When I call him that, I am definitely mocking him. However, the difference between that mockery and the vast majority of BDS is that my mockery is based in reality. Looker linked to an article detailing the sycophantic adulation of Obama by his liberal supporters. Obama played into that idolatry by dishonestly portraying himself as a Christ like figure. Obama created a fictional narrative where, just as Christ was tempted in the desert by Lucifer, he was tempted by the allure of a shallow but lucrative career on wall street. Alas, he overcame that temptation to become a community organizer, thereby devoting his life to the service of others. On page 55-56 of Dreams Fom My Father, Obama claims:
Eventually a consulting house to multinational corporations agreed to hire me as a research assistant. Like a spy behind enemy lines, I arrived every day at my mid-Manhattan office and sat at my computer terminal, checking the Reuters machine that blinked bright emerald messages from across the globe....as the months passed, I felt the idea of becoming an organizer slipping away from me. The company promoted me to the position of financial writer. I had my own office, my own secretary, money in the bank. Sometimes, coming out of an interview with Japanese financiers or German bond traders, I would catch my reflection in the elevator doors-see myself in a suit and tie, a briefcase in my hand-and for a split second I would imagine myself as a captain of industry, barking out orders, closing the deal, before I remembered who it was that I had told myself I wanted to be and felt pangs of guilt for my lack of resolve.
The NY Times interviewed a former co-worker at at Business International Corp. named Dan Armstrong who claimed that Obama’s story "required a bit of exaggeration". A former BCI vice-president quoted in that same Times article stated that “It was not working for General Foods or Chase Manhattan, that’s for sure...And it was not a consulting firm by any stretch of the imagination." Armstrong wrote about this issue at his blog and said:
Don’t get me wrong - I’m a big fan of Barack Obama, the Illinois freshman senator and hot young Democratic Party star. But after reading his autobiography, I have to say that Barack engages in some serious exaggeration when he describes a job that he held in the mid-1980s. I know because I sat down the hall from him, in the same department, and worked closely with his boss. I can’t say I was particularly close to Barack - he was reserved and distant towards all of his co-workers - but I was probably as close to him as anyone. I certainly know what he did there, and it bears only a loose resemblance to what he wrote in his book.
After several years of not-very-successful community organizing, Obama went to law school and, upon his return to Chicago, he proceeded to rise out of the muck of the Chicago/Illinois political swamp. Here is a link filled post detailing his ruthless ambition as he filed lawsuits to avoid opposition. His hubris steadily increased to the point that he made this assinine statement (at 4:51 on the video):
I am absolutely certain that generations from now, we will be able to look back and tell our children that this was the moment when we began to provide care for the sick and good jobs to the jobless; this was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal.
Like it or not, Obama has insinuated himself as a messianic figure whose ascendance to power will literally heal the planet. He convinced one pathetic woman that she will never again have to worry about paying her mortgage or filling her car with gas. Then there are his grandiose claims that he will cut taxes, balance the budget, give us universal health care, impose emissions caps on industry, grow the economy and raise everyone’s income all at once. Obama will never be able to keep all of the promises he made during the campaign.

Then there is the fact that Obama’s campaign admitted that it turned off the credit card verification settings on his web site and refused to disclose the names of his sub-$200 donors. Then there were his false claims to be post partisan even as he repeatedly and falsely claimed that the recession had been caused by 8 years of Bush’s deregulation. Unfortunately, that claim is patently false. Bush massively increased the budget and staff at the SEC, and the Heritage foundation found that
•Money spent by federal regulatory agencies is up to $44.9 billion in 2007 from $27 billion in 2001, a 44% increase.
•Total people employed by federal regulatory agencies is up to 244,000 in 2007 from 172,000 in 2001, a 41% increase.
•Total number of pages in the Code of Federal Regulations is up more than 4,500 pages since Bush took office.
•Cost imposed on Americans is more than $28 billion in new regulations since Bush took office.
Now, Obama wants to re-create the New Deal despite the fact that it was an abject failure. The $800,000,000,000 pork laden "stimulus" bill that Obama has proposed is just an excuse to expand government and pay off all of those high maintenance liberal constituencies. I could go on and on, but you get the point. Then again, as we know from Rahm Emmanuel’s Kinsley gaffe, this is all about not letting a good crisis go to waste. Obama is a fraud. Captain Sarcastic, you may like Obama’s liberal policy goals, but he is a phony. There is nothing new about the expansion of the federal government. There is nothing new about a liberal elitist bending rules in the service of his political ambition. In every way other than his race, Obama is a traditional liberal politician. The messianic posturing of our new president deserves ridicule and he deserves the scrutiny that the press so blatantly refused to provide during the campaign. When I call Obama "the messiah" it is well deserved, factually substantiated mockery.

Sorry about the long post but I needed to get some of that out of my system.
 
Written By: jt007
URL: http://
Sorry about the long post but I needed to get some of that out of my system.
I hopee it made you feel better.

Add "Fraud" jt007
factually substantiated mockery
I love watching people rationalize.
 
Written By: CaptinSarcastic
URL: http://
I love watching people rationalize.
So do I. And you’ve been right at the top of that list lately.
 
Written By: McQ
URL: http://www.QandO.net
According to three Supreme Court Justices, Florida did indeed change election law
Rehnquist (in a concurring opinion joined by Scalia and Thomas) argued that the recount scheme was also unconstitutional because the Florida Supreme Court’s decision made new election law, which only the state legislature may do.
Further, the recount ordered by the Florida Supreme Court on December 8, 2000, was not a full recount. It was a partial recount of only the undervotes, and the Florida Supreme Court ordered that uncertified totals from Miami/Dade County be added to the count.

The Chief Justice of Florida’s Supreme Court himself, dissenting with the majority, said the the Florida Court’s decision was crafted out of thin air, and had no basis in Florida law.
 
Written By: Steverino
URL: http://
There was NO majority decision that found that Florida changed the rules. The only place such a finding can be seen is the Scalia minority concurrance, which three Justices agreed with and six disagreed.
No, you can’t say that six Justices disagreed. The best you can say is that only 3 signed to concurring opinion. There was never any argument presented that disagreed with the opinion.
 
Written By: Steverino
URL: http://
Finally, let’s not forget that the Florida Supreme Court actually did change the election laws, by moving the certification date back to November 26th.
 
Written By: Steverino
URL: http://
Captain, I’m not rationalizing. I would be rationalizing if I somehow claimed that calling him the messiah isn’t mockery because of x, y or z. To the contrary, I am acknowledging that I am mocking him. However, unlike Bush haters, I have provided actual facts to substantiate my mockery. BDS is almost entirely based on imaginary things like: Bush and Cheney outed a covert operative out of revenge (Plame wasn’t covert and Armitage was the leaker); Bush ordered the Abu Ghraib atrocities (not one scintilla of evidence to support that); Bush lied about WMD ( see the most recent Sen. Intelligence Committee report), he initiated doctrine of "pre-emptive war" (see Kennedy and Viet Nam, see Clinton and Kosovo), etc. etc. None of those things happened in reality. The reasons that I don’t care for Obama are actually real. He really did the things that I take exception to. That being said, unlike the Bush hating left, I don’t hate Obama. I don’t care enough about him to hate him. I just want his grandiose ambitions to be kept in check for the good of our country.

I will also never forget the dishonesty, pettiness and vindictiveness that liberals have directed at Bush. The fact that Obama played into that and benefitted from it while simultaneously acting holier than thou contributes to my disdain for him. As to my fraud comment, he is in fact a fraud. I linked to the facts in support thereof.
 
Written By: jt007
URL: http://

 
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