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Recently uncovered Navy Report Supports Swift Vets Contention
Posted by: McQ on Friday, October 01, 2004

A report from the Naval archives detailing the incident in which John Kerry was awarded the Bronze Star for pulling Jim Rasmann out of the water seems to support the Swift Boat Veteran's for Truth contention that it was written up by John Kerry. Its technical, but telling:
An operations order by Adm. Hoffman two months earlier set the format for the designation. The operations order procedures, originated by the operational commander of the Coastal 11 An Thoi unit Kerry served with, Cmdr. Adrian Lonsdale, was the basis for the terms of designation used in this kind of report subsequently. Upon seeing the report, Lonsdale, a Swift Boat Veterans for Truth member, recognized it and recalled the procedures it required as being followed in his command.

"TE" refers to a "task element," which is defined by the numbers to the right, which show the command structure over the task element in action. "194" is Adm. Elmo Zumwalt, commander of U.S. naval forces in Vietnam; "5" is Hoffman's swift boat command; "4" is Lonsdale's command, and the last "4" is Capt. George Elliot's swift boat base at An Thoi, where the boats on this mission were based. The last "1" indicates someone other than the commander of the mission. If the report had been submitted by the mission commander, in this case Thurlow, according to the operations order, it would have begun with a "C" for commander of the Task Element, and the sender would have been "CTE 194.5.4.4."

According to a Navy communications expert, Chief Petty Officer Troy Jenkins, who has examined the message traffic, the report in question was sent from the U.S. Coast Guard Cutter Spencer, Lonsdale's command ship, at 11:20 that night.

Only three of the officers on the mission that day were on the Spencer, John Kerry, Dick Pease and Donald Droz. Droz took the wounded from the mine explosion to be examined and treated at the Spencer, including the third officer, the severely wounded Dick Pease. Since the Spencer had no helipad for the evacuation of the wounded, Droz then had to return to the USS Washtenaw County, stationed about 25 nautical miles away, leaving only Kerry aboard the Spencer at the time the message was sent at 11:20 p.m.

Could Droz have somehow written the report? Lonsdale says command precedence of days in swift boat service alone rules this out. "According to the command procedure I set down, Kerry would have been the only logical candidate. Kerry had been in Vietnam since November. Droz just arrived at An Thoi in February." Thurlow adds, "I never liked the paperwork anyway. I was happy to have Kerry write them up."
Read the whole thing. Bottom line: it appears the after action report had to have been written up by Kerry despite his denial, and, per the rest of the people on site, it is very embellished with enemy fire which never occurred.
 
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Previous Comments to this Post 

Comments
Oh wow!, another new development in the all-important story of what our candidates did during the Vietnam era! That reminds me, has the number of poor Americans, and the number of Americans without health insurance, gone up or down during the past 3 1/2 years? Anybody know?
 
Written By: Average guy
URL: http://
It's almost as high as it was in 1998, AG. What does that have to do with the Presidency? (hint: almost nothing)
 
Written By: Jon Henke
URL: http://www.QandO.net/blog
Probably the same direction as the number of insured Americans has gone...
 
Written By:
URL: http://
Probably the same direction as the number of insured Americans has gone...
All of which has nothing to do with the topic. Be nice if we could all stay on it, wouldn`t it?
 
Written By: McQ
URL: Unknown
McQ digs up facts the leftie can't refute.

leftie response: Look Space Aliens!!!
 
Written By: capt joe
URL: http://
Hey, McQ, when are you going to bash Fox for making up quotes about Kerry? Where is the outrage McQ? We're waiting.

Compare the treatment in the MSM between rathergate and Camerongate.

Can we finally put the myth of liberal-bias to sleep?

The hypocrisy.
 
Written By: mkultra
URL: http://
Fox retracted and appologized to its viewers and Kerry for the quotes.

When is CBS, Rather and the DNC going to do the same.

All I remember is that quote, "Fake but accurate" coming from those bozos.

ooh, you are right, such hypocrisy

Again the response: Look Space Aliens!!
 
Written By: capt joe
URL: http://
Space aliens? Ok, I promise not to comment on Camerongate until McQ posts about it. Well, we're waiting.

As for apologizing, big deal. The problem is that it is meaningless because Fox is continuing to lie. They said the story ran because Cameron was fatigued.

Huh? What? First, since when does fatigue cause one to tell flagrant lies? Second, Cameron does not post his own stories. There were others in on the process. Were they all fatigued too?

An apology accompanied couched in a lie is no apology at all. It is a lie.

 
Written By: mkultra
URL: http://
Character counts; just another of the numerous examples of Kerrys lack of character. Im seared I tell ya Seared.
If you hold Rather down mk
I'll give him the pills.
 
Written By: McQ2
URL: http://
Well, we're waiting for you to say similiar things about CBS and rather.

You should post them on your blog.

Space Aliens is because you guys were trying (as usual) to change the subject.

The subject was Kerry and his mal truths.
 
Written By: capt joe
URL: http://
Hey, MKUltra, when is AP going to apologize for making up audience reactions to the announcement of Clinton's hospitalization? You loved repeating their lie.

By the way, how many Afghans are registered to vote?
 
Written By: Lance Jonn Romanoff
URL: http://www.ljonn.com/
One thing I am curious about is how leftists can justify this article by the Guardian.

It says that there is no problem in Sudan and that this is all a US ploy against the Sudanese government.

Mkultra, Danny boy, what do you think?

Is the guardian doing a dis-service?
 
Written By: capt joe
URL: http://
RE: health insurance...the PERCENTAGE of citizens lacking h.c. has gone up. According to the Kansas City Star (10/3/2004):

"Some 45 million Americans or 15.6 percent of the population do not have health-care insurance, according to a recent U.S. census report. Although that may be a temporary situation for many, the percentage of uninsured has increased from 14.2 percent just four years ago. Even Americans who have coverage are seeing double-digit premium increases, often with reduced coverage."

If Bush were a REAL leader, he would have instituted a nat'l healthcare system! (sort of a Nixon-in-china thing...you know, with the Repubs controlling all 3 branches of government). Even my Repub dad (a small bus. owner) thinks we should have nat'l h.c. because he sees firsthand how his business is hurt by our broken system. Of course, he also think that instituting nat'l healthcare just cannot be done. But I say: don't tell me that we (as a country) cannot figure this one out, with all of our mind-power. It's a moral issue to me, and although the Repubs act like they have a monopoly on morality, I'd say they really have failed us on this huge issue. Yes, I know that Clinton, Bush, Reagan, etc. also did nothing, but then again, I didn't call them great leaders either.

If Bush were a LEADER like some delusional people think he is, this problem would be on its way to being solved.

Can Kerry do it? I doubt it, but we have to at least give him a chance. Bush had his chance, and he blew it.
 
Written By: Average guy
URL: http://
RE: Fox news...the left fell right into their trap! It's really very clever...post a fake story 'accidentally,' then apologize and quickly take it down. But the story is pounced on by the left, who publicize and distribute it. They just can't help themselves - "Look, proof that Fox is partisan!" End result: the story is widely circulated, and everyone laughs at the (obviously, to me anyway) fictional Kerry quotes. (I thought they were pretty funny, too..) Fox News was just being Fox News. Nobody *really* believes they're "fair and accurate" or whatever ..even that slogan is just a device to raise the left's hackles!
 
Written By: Average guy
URL: http://
I would also note that the uninsured level was 16.3% in 1998. At the height of the 90s boom. So, let's not go pretending this is some Bush-related problem.
 
Written By: Jon Henke
URL: http://www.QandO.net/blog
"Mkultra, Danny boy, what do you think?"

Don't get me into this mess. I don't believe in media bias whether on the right or left. Like someone posted before, if you look you'll find stories that'll support your side.

But to throw some gas in the fire...McQ, why still bothering w/ this story? You're trying to discredit someone who actually had the balls to go, period. Whether he was a mile away, five miles, whatever, the dude went. Speaks volumes over Bush's service. And yet, you're okay with his, your WAR president. I think we're in the final days of this godforsaken administration. You can tell, the postings and blogs are losing content, the partisanship is at full throttle.
 
Written By: DannyBoy
URL: http://
If Bush were a REAL leader, he would have instituted a nat'l healthcare system!

I know a lot of people who love to complain about snow during winter, but never think to move to warmer areas. I know a lot of people who think we should have a national healthcare system who've never lived under one.

Average guy, why don't you move to Canada or Great Britain long enough to experience a major medical problem, and THEN decide whether you want that kind of system here.

Kerry, with 20 years in the Senate, has had far more opportunity to craft such legislation, but so far has been unable to do so. What makes you think he deserves to be President?
 
Written By: Steverino
URL: http://steverino.journalspace.com/
AG, the reason people care about what John Kerry did vs what he claims he did in Vietnam is that HE has held up his service in Vietnam as one of the key character-building experiences he has had that the President has not. So, when people surface questioning or refuting his exploits, it becomes a character issue. Character IS a relevant issue when selecting a President, right? What amazes me is that in approx 120 days of service in Vietnam, John Kerry managed to become one of the most decorated veterans of the war. I am truly not a conspiracy theorist, but consider this . . . John Kerry goes to Vietnam; he quickly realizes it's a nightmare and wants BADLY to get the hell out of there. He's smart enough to know about the 3-Purple-Hearts-ticket-home clause and manages to expediently capitalize on that provision, after which he goes home and launches his anti-war campaign with greater political aspirations in the works. The only problem is if the Swifties are NOT some Republican puppet liars but are telling the truth about what really happened.
 
Written By: Wigster
URL: http://
AG, the reason people care about what John Kerry did vs what he claims he did in Vietnam is that HE has held up his service in Vietnam as one of the key character-building experiences he has had that the President has not. So, when people surface questioning or refuting his exploits, it becomes a character issue. Character IS a relevant issue when selecting a President, right? What amazes me is that in approx 120 days of service in Vietnam, John Kerry managed to become one of the most decorated veterans of the war. I am truly not a conspiracy theorist, but consider this . . . John Kerry goes to Vietnam; he quickly realizes it's a nightmare and wants BADLY to get the hell out of there. He's smart enough to know about the 3-Purple-Hearts-ticket-home clause and manages to expediently capitalize on that provision, after which he goes home and launches his anti-war campaign with greater political aspirations in the works. The only problem is if the Swifties are NOT some Republican puppet liars but are telling the truth about what really happened.
 
Written By: Wigster
URL: http://
Over the last 40 years, the United States has bombed Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, El Salvador,
Nicaragua, Panama, Grenada, Sudan, Libya, Iraq, and Yugoslavia. We have killed literally millions
of human beings in small impoverished third world countries who were no threat to us.
 
Written By: benatly
URL: http://www.bextradeals.com

 
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