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"The goofy fruit of the ha ha bush"
Posted by: Jon Henke on Friday, April 22, 2005

Now and then, my faith in humanity is dashed against the rocks...





  • Is the Virgin Mary really slumming it, lately...or are people just so desperate for something, anything, to worship that they'll believe anything?


  • Does the Catholic faith really revolve around a lady who shows up in almost indecipherable stains on the walls of an underpass? Somehow, I suspect these people are motivated less by Catholicism than by desperation.


  • Wouldn't this be a rather amateurish parlor trick for, you know, God?


  • Is it just me, or does that look a lot like a stain. Produced by water. On a wall. In an underpass. The kind of thing that's about as rare as, well, underpass walls.


I don't get it. I don't get it when people pay $28,000 for a piece of toast with a burn pattern that vaguely resembles a face (it must be the Virgin Mary!). I don't get it when thousands come to see a window with condensation shaped vaguely like, well, nothing as far as I can tell.

When I was a child, I'd lay on my back and pick shapes (a ship! a dolphin! the Virgin Mary!) out of the clouds. Of course, 1) I didn't actually think the clouds were ships, dolphins or the Virgin Mary, and 2) I grew up.
 
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It does seem odd that the "stain" seems to have formed around what appears to be a crack in the wall.....
 
Written By: mark m
URL: http://
Yeah, shocking, isn’t it. I mean, what are the odds that Mother Mary would show up right where water would be likely to stain a wall.
 
Written By: Jon Henke
URL: http://www.QandO.net
I live not too far from that insurance building that had Mary decorating the windows.

I thought it looked more like one of the actors from that show "The Flying Nun".
 
Written By: Sharp as a Marble
URL: http://sharpmarbles.stufftoread.com
What does it say that Mary is the primary manifestation of this sort of thing? Is there an unmet need in humans for a female deity? Does Mary’s elevation in the Catholic church predispose that denomination to find Holy Mamma? Is Mariology itself a matriarchal religion denied expression by Patriarchs? And if God is forced to reveal Herself in underpass stains, how desperate is that?
 
Written By: The Owner’s Manual
URL: http://gcruse.typepad.com
At the risk of sounding too floaty-haired, I think the working premise is that Mother Mary appears when people want her to appear. Only so many people give a flying Wolenda about Mary and could care less if she appears anywhere, so she doesn’t drop down in the middle of Times Square, she appears in such a way that the people who want to see her, will, and the people who don’t will see a stain.

Which, admittedly, is convenient, but keeps everybody happy.
 
Written By: Matt Barr
URL: http://newworldman.us
But...what about the values voters?
 
Written By: David in AK
URL: http://
Before I get going, here, I’m not RC.

Jon; (Shrug)
Of course it appeared around a crack. Where else is water going to get IN, after all?

And of course this kind of thing is not unusual by any stretch.

FOND DU LAC, Sask. (CP) - Hundreds of Catholics are gathering around an image formed by frost between the sealed panes of a window in the belief it’s an apparition of the Virgin Mary.

BBC: A US hospital has asked the Catholic Church for help after being swamped by thousands of people seeking to view what they believe is an image of the Virgin Mary in a third-floor window.
More than 25,000 people visited the Milton Hospital near Boston, Massachusetts, at the weekend as word of the likeness began to spread.


And so on

I’m not worried about it, myself, but I must admit I do find the numbers of these things happening to be curious;

Some of these numbers can be explained, of course by people seeing what they want to see, but also;

Some of these can also be explained by the idea that this general shape apparently is one that occurrs in nature rather frequently. (You never see an image of an American Flag in such situations, for example... at least I’ve not heard of one. And certainly were one such to appear somewhere, we’d hear claims from certain among us that the images was devinely inspired... thus creating the crush of the press trying to cover the human interest angle on those crazy Christians again.. and the left complaining about God mixing religion and politics...and hijacking what it means to be an American.... Snork...)

TOM’s question is a fair enough one... why always her... And this question takes on a specific meaning when laid over the framework of those two points;

We’re dealing here with cultural as well as religious metaphors; The Roman Church has long (2000 years long) leaned toward the idea of Mary being the second Eve... (Which itself is an idea on par with Christ himself being the second Adam.) The cultural value of such images is thus explain in large part. (And the cultural aspect of these lines of thinking becomes particularly pronounced for example, in Hispanic communities, for example) There is also the issue that nobody in Christ’s life on earth was closer to him than was Mary. Thus the desire to emulate her.

Now, I do view these events as a minor distraction from the central elements of the Christian faith. And, yes, in some cases, to the point of idol worship, in my view. After all, Scripture does NOT say "no one comes to the Father except through me and to get to me you have to go through Mary".

Still, as I say, I’m not overly concerned...this stuff is harmless for the most part.

(Shrug) Hey, you asked.
 
Written By: Bithead
URL: http://bitheads.blogspot.com
What’s even more funny that this is observing theists of other faiths, rituals, or sacriments point fingers at this.

It’s not the slightest bit sillier than _any_ religious practice you can name.
 
Written By: Richard Nikoley
URL: http://uncommonsense.typepad.com
Ah, yes, spoken like aa true devotee of Ayn....
 
Written By: Bithead
URL: http://bitheads.blogspot.com
Ah, yes, the religious impulse to see things that aren’t there is deeply ingrained in the human psyche. Take, for example, the "libertarian Republican" insistence that the GOP is, or could possibly be, amenable to liberty. Or the Democrats’ and Republicans’ ability to see a $2.6 trillion budget as a "cut" from a $2.4 trillion budget.

Tom Knapp
 
Written By: Thomas L. Knapp
URL: http://knappster.blogspot.com
As to the former... because you can’t see it, it must not exist? Sounds rather like the ostrich school of camoflage.

As to the latter, two answers... inflation, and a little thing called discretionary spending, which is what got cut. You’re looking at the overall, which is inaccurate, iven it’s not at all what they’re talking about.



 
Written By: Bithead
URL: http://bitheads.blogspot.com
John Henke - You wrote that you don’t get it. Well of course not, the Marian signs are not appearing to you, therefore you can never see them, nor can you ever "get it".

"...for although you have hidden these things from the wise and the learned you have revealed them to the childlike." —Matthew 11:25

You left a clue when you wrote "When I was a child, I’d lay on my back and pick shapes (a ship! a dolphin! the Virgin Mary!) out of the clouds. Of course, 1) I didn’t actually think the clouds were ships, dolphins or the Virgin Mary, and 2) I grew up." Yes, indeed you "grew up", and that is your loss.

 
Written By: Neddy
URL: http://kerfuffles.blogspot.com
Of course it appeared around a crack. Where else is water going to get IN, after all?
Why would God need a crack in the wall, or water, to create the image of Mary in an underpass? I mean, if you’re gonna go supernatural on the Department of Transportation, why not go supernatural? The alternate speculation, of course, is that it’s just a freakin’ water stain.
why always her...
Well, it’s not "always her". The Shroud of Turin was believed for centuries to be "Jesus", because it seemed to be a male, and....well, Jesus was a male. There you go. There are more than a few Elvis sightings of this sort, too.

All of which suggests that people see what they want to see. Rorschach stains and such. I’d agree that it’s generally harmless, but it’s certainly silly.
What’s even more funny that this is observing theists of other faiths, rituals, or sacriments point fingers at this. It’s not the slightest bit sillier than _any_ religious practice you can name.
I’d argue that it’s slightly sillier than many, but not all, other religious practices. A belief in some sort of "natural rights", for example. (hey, if Knapp can bring politics into it, I can bring philosophy into it...:)
 
Written By: Jon Henke
URL: http://www.QandO.net
Jon;
So in your view, manifestations must always be supernatural to be valid?
 
Written By: Bithead
URL: http://bitheads.blogspot.com
So in your view, manifestations must always be supernatural to be valid?
If they’re not supernatural, then they’re not "manifestations". They’re stains on a wall that, coincidentally, resemble a human. There’s nothing particularly religious about water-stains.
 
Written By: Jon Henke
URL: http://www.QandO.net
There’s nothing particularly religious about water-stains.
Except that when they show up on your basement walls you’re likely to invoke the name of God!
 
Written By: JWG
URL: http://www.qando.net
Jon; Aha. The plot thins.
If they’re not supernatural, then they’re not "manifestations"
You seem to be making your argument from the standpoint that God doesn’t exist. It’s coloring the rest of your conclusions, then, I think.

Thing is, that’s not the POV of about 75-80% of the population, last polling data I saw, Jon... So, put yourself in their shoes for just a moment... and here’s a question of logic for you, Mr. Philosopher...Assuming God exists, would he not be part of the natural process?

Here’s another: Starting on the same assumption... God Exists...Would he not have the ability to manifest himself through the existing environment, having created it?

Look, I don’t know if there is any intervention there or not, any more than you do. I’m simply suggesting here that I can understand someone coming to that conclusion, given the logical starting point of "God exists".
 
Written By: Bithead
URL: http://bitheads.blogspot.com
I’m with Bithead. Why insult a large part of the population that may find hope in things like this? Yeah It’s illogical but so is god(the problem of evil) acording to Philosophy 101. So why not just insult the intelligence of every person of faith?

I’m agnostic, you can’t prove god exists, you can’t prove he doesn’t. Human nature seems to have a soft spot for hope though. Some people find hope it in the ideas of heaven, re-incarnation, the lottery, or in any political ideology you can name including neo-Libertarianism. Or is hope just plain childlike?
 
Written By: KirkH
URL: http://unbeknownst.net
What’s so suprising? These are the same people that eat little wafers amd grape juice that they belive to be the body and blood of the one the worship.

Start a new religion like that today and you’d be pegged as a pagan cannibal vampire clut.

If you can delude yourself enough to belive that wafer is the body of christ, it’s not a long leap to beliving that a wall stain is the virgin mary.
 
Written By: Wog
URL: http://na.com
These are the same people that eat little wafers amd grape juice
It’s actually wine, not juice. If you’re going to be insulting, at least know what you’re talking about!
 
Written By: JWG
URL: http://www.qando.net
It’s actually wine, not juice. If you’re going to be insulting, at least know what you’re talking about!
Actually you should learn what YOU are talking about. Most curches have switched to juice a long time ago as it’s not politically correct to give wine to little kids.
 
Written By: Wog
URL: http://na.com
Most curches have switched to juice a long time ago as it’s not politically correct to give wine to little kids.
I’m Catholic, you moron, and have lived all over this country and several others. Catholic churches have not switched to juice; they serve wine even to teenagers (little kids do not receive communion). It has nothing to do with political correctness. Point to one Catholic church that serves juice rather than wine. I figured your stupid comment about cannibalism was just a way to to be insulting, but obviously you really don’t know what goes on in the Catholic Church. Maybe you should do a little research into what the Church teaches about communion before you make any more jackassed comments. There’s a difference between thinking people are foolish for believing in something you don’t and insulting them based on your own ignorance.
 
Written By: JWG
URL: http://www.qando.net
Proof that wine is required for communion in the Catholic Church. Notice who the author is at the bottom of the quoted letter?
 
Written By: JWG
URL: http://www.qando.net
You do know that catholics aren’t the only people that take communion don’t you? Or did you automatically assume that everyone that is religious must be catholic?

If you bother to even do the most simple searches on grape juice vs wine for communion you’ll see that this is no old idea and has been adopted by a great many churches and faiths.

The particulars however about what you may wish to belive turns into blood is all semantics in the end.

One must admit that if one truly belives that they are eating the blood and body of christ that that is a cannibalistic act. Just because a person was really nice, doesn’t mean you should eat them when they ask you to.

I’m sorry if you find my views insulting. It’s just that when I see stuff like people seeing the virgin mary in unerpass stains and truly beliving that she is there, it reminds me that religion removes the capacity for free thought. The ability to make decisions freely, or to think for oneself. Something I personally find very offensive.

You may say, no, they are free to think that is the virgin mary, and *that* is free thought. The point is, what if one of them wanted to think that it wasn’t... well now, that would be questioning their faith wouldn’t it. And when you cannot question a thing, you have lost your capacity for free thought.
 
Written By: Wog
URL: http://na.com
Wog writes:
These are the same people that eat little wafers amd grape juice that they belive to be the body and blood of the one the worship.
And, after being taken to task for saying "grape juice" in his post, writes:

You do know that catholics aren’t the only people that take communion don’t you? Or did you automatically assume that everyone that is religious must be catholic?
Well, as near as I can figure it, Wog, you’re the one with the knowledge problem. The churches that use grape juice aren’t Catholic, and thus, do not believe the host is, in fact, the blood and body of Christ. Protestant denominations almost universally reject the doctrine of transubstantiation, and believe the host is merely representative of the blood and body of Christ.

Were I you, I should refrain from attempting to speak authoritatively on the process of communion any more. You clearly lack a good deal of key knowledge about it, which seriously detracts from your argument.
 
Written By: Dale Franks
URL: http://www.qando.net
You do know that catholics aren’t the only people that take communion don’t you?
Dale explained this nicely. Thank you.
One must admit that if one truly belives that they are eating the blood and body of christ that that is a cannibalistic act.
Except for the fact that Catholic doctrine doesn’t claim we are eating human flesh or blood, which you would know if you did a little reading on the subject. Skipping the long explanation for a brief summary: Catholic doctrine teaches that the Eucharist is the body of Christ as He is now in heaven in his glorified state, not the body of Christ before his resurrection. There are reasons for this belief if you care to understand them. Or you can just continue with your superficial and misleading understanding of Catholicism.
it reminds me that religion removes the capacity for free thought
Just because some people out of over one billion think they see the Virgin Mary, doesn’t mean that the Church thinks she’s really there, or that most Catholics think she has appeared. As far as free thought is concerned, you are blindly following anti-catholic propaganda without making any effort to educate yourself on actual Catholic doctrine. Religion has nothing to do with the removal of thought...it is the person who chooses whether or not to understand what they believe. People of all beliefs (including atheism) are capable of blindly following their philosophy.
 
Written By: JWG
URL: http://
Just for reference relating to "catholic" use of juice. I asked my fiance about this, who told me she grew up taking juice for communion when she was 8 to around 12 in the very strict catholic private school called "Blessed Trinity" in Florida (a school taught by nuns and priests).

Anyhow, I find it confusing that you are most hung up on wether juice or wine is used. It really has little to nothing to do with the point here.
 
Written By: Wog
URL: http://na.com
Just for reference relating to "catholic" use of juice. I asked my fiance about this, who told me she grew up taking juice for communion when she was 8 to around 12 in the very strict catholic private school called "Blessed Trinity" in Florida (a school taught by nuns and priests).

Anyhow, I find it confusing that you are most hung up on wether juice or wine is used. It really has little to nothing to do with the point here.
 
Written By: Wog
URL: http://na.com
JWC; Well, in the Lutheran church and I suspect some others, it CAN be juice... at the choice of the communicant, It’s an accomidation to people with some probloem with alcohol or another. Medication interaction and whatnot. GRanted that’s the exception, but still worth mentioning for comepleteness.

And, WOG, and Dale; you may wish to do some research on the word "Eucharist", which the Protestant chuches as well as the Catholic, celebrate.

 
Written By: Bithead
URL: http://bitheads.blogspot.com
Just for reference relating to "catholic" use of juice. I asked my fiance about this, who told me she grew up taking juice for communion when she was 8 to around 12 in the very strict catholic private school called "Blessed Trinity" in Florida (a school taught by nuns and priests).

Anyhow, I find it confusing that you are most hung up on wether juice or wine is used. It really has little to nothing to do with the point here.
 
Written By: Wog
URL: http://na.com
Just for reference relating to "catholic" use of juice. I asked my fiance about this, who told me she grew up taking juice for communion when she was 8 to around 12 in the very strict catholic private school called "Blessed Trinity" in Florida (a school taught by nuns and priests).

Anyhow, I find it confusing that you are most hung up on wether juice or wine is used. It really has little to nothing to do with the point here.
 
Written By: Wog
URL: http://na.com
And, WOG, and Dale; you may wish to do some research on the word "Eucharist", which the Protestant chuches as well as the Catholic, celebrate.
GOOD GRIEF! Can anyone besides Dale read for comprehension anymore?


Wog made a common anti-catholic insult claiming that those who believe they are eating the body and blood of Jesus are cannibals, at the same time claiming most churches use juice. At first I let the slur pass and just pointed out his factual error. (He had to be referring to catholics because we are the only ones who practice transmutation...hence the cannibalism charge. Since Protestants don’t really believe they are eating Christ’s body, they weren’t included in the insult.)


After Wog claimed I didn’t know what I was talking about, I proved I did. Further, I offered a little education about the Catholic belief of transmutation and the body of Christ. Protestant churches are not accused of cannibalism because they believe the Eucharist is symbolic, not "truly, really, and substantially" as taught by the Catholic church.

Anyhow, I find it confusing that you are most hung up on wether juice or wine is used. It really has little to nothing to do with the point here.
First of all, I am hung up on the fact that you obviously didn’t know what you were talking about, yet claim to know I am a cannibal. I pointed out your wine error because I don’t like people spouting wrong information about Catholics. I returned to the cannibalism topic because you claimed I didn’t know what I was talking about. That was one of your points and I addressed it clearly and accurately. I also addressed your incorrect slur against religion in general. Disbelieve all you want, but don’t misrepresent my faith and then insult me because of your ignorance.
 
Written By: JWG
URL: http://

My hope was investigation of the real meaning of the word would put to bed any question of how far off base both your comments were.



 
Written By: Bithead
URL: http://bitheads.blogspot.com
Sorry... Was going to add this;

  • Lutherans, Anglicans and most Reformed do not teach that the bread and wine are transformed, but do believe that the participation in the risen Christ is real, and actually by means of this ceremony. Their doctrine typically, but incorrectly, called consubstantiation, Lutherans hold that Christ becomes truly present "in, with and under" the bread and wine, and that those receiving the sacrament receive his "true body and true blood." Lutherans subscribe to the doctrine of the Eucharistic Real Presence.

    Point being, neither of you is spot on on the issue.
 
Written By: Bithead
URL: http://bitheads.blogspot.com
Point being, neither of you is spot on on the issue.
Fine, some protestants can join me at our next Cannibals Anonymous meeting. You bring the juice and I’ll bring the spirits.
 
Written By: JWG
URL: http://
(sigh, shake of the head)
 
Written By: Bithead
URL: http://bitheads.blogspot.com
(sigh, shake of the head)
I was agreeing that some of us share the presence of Christ, albeit in different manifestations. I’ve never heard anyone other than Catholics accused of cannibalism, though, so I was welcoming others to the club. Of course, it’s unlikely that leaders of the various denominations will ever be able to reconcile the theological divisions.
 
Written By: JWG
URL: http://
Ah.
Sigh withdrawn.
Somehow, I got that my message wasn’t getting across.
(It’s Monday, OK?)



 
Written By: Bithead
URL: http://bitheads.blogspot.com
Really my inital statement was not off base. It was "Start a new religion like that today and you’d be pegged as a pagan cannibal vampire cult."

And quite so, you would.

The interesting differnce is that if you do something crazy long enough and get enough other people to do it with you. It is no longer "insane" but rather, becomes a social norm.

People that start "cults" get little respect and are often feared or called out as wackos. But really, all they need is better attendance. If you read the bible you’ll see that there was a time when people looked at Jesus the same way, his small band of followers was no doubt named as a cult in their day by many people. To the point that he was crucifed in fact by a bunch of other wackos who had faith in something else.

If there is a lesson to be learned, perhaps it is the danger of blindly giving yourself over to the beliefs of another. The misery and atrocity that follows faith is an ugly truth.

For every white trash loser that the threat of hell kept from killing someone, there are five more faith plagued wackos that kill specifically for the name of their faith.

Faith gives people like osama bin laden the lack of reason that need, to blow up the entire earth (and they would if they had the means) just to kill others who don’t think the way they do. Even if it means they kill themselves too.

Don’t think i’m comparing catholics to osma bin laden. Only that the premise of both faiths is still ...the goofy fruit from same ha ha bush. Control over people. To make them do what you want, to suit your own purposes.

Keep them sedated, give them a reason for living and dying, tell them if they do what you say, it will all be ok... and if they don’t there will be hell to pay, get them to belive this, and you are their master.

Sadly the bible was written by men. Words translated and touched my many men. Corrupt men with their own desires to control. You can read between the lines and see the wisdom of a person that onece lived named jesus. The basic premises are there and they are wise. And then you can see the contradictions as well. Commands that don’t mesh with the rest. The layer of control, added to the story by men.

Jesus never meant for men to build great cathedrals to his name. Or worship images of him. He’d like to have had his subjects simply understand and belive his teachings in the desert, in a church of nature. No gold chalices, no decadent wine to drink, no fancy robes and stained glass architecture erected as an illusion to help those that are short of faith to belive. So they might see his might, and donate more, more money, to buy more gold chalices, and more wine, and more churches, more lavish, more corrupt.

Somewhere in the story the evil took hold and twisted a simple man’s wisdom into the terror that sweeps this earth called faith. Faith in what? Who’s version of events?

Think about it. Free your mind.




 
Written By: Wog
URL: http://na.com
Really my inital statement was not off base. It was "Start a new religion like that today and you’d be pegged as a pagan cannibal vampire cult."

And quite so, you would.

The interesting differnce is that if you do something crazy long enough and get enough other people to do it with you. It is no longer "insane" but rather, becomes a social norm.

People that start "cults" get little respect and are often feared or called out as wackos. But really, all they need is better attendance. If you read the bible you’ll see that there was a time when people looked at Jesus the same way, his small band of followers was no doubt named as a cult in their day by many people. To the point that he was crucifed in fact by a bunch of other wackos who had faith in something else.

If there is a lesson to be learned, perhaps it is the danger of blindly giving yourself over to the beliefs of another. The misery and atrocity that follows faith is an ugly truth.

For every white trash loser that the threat of hell kept from killing someone, there are five more faith plagued wackos that kill specifically for the name of their faith.

Faith gives people like osama bin laden the lack of reason that need, to blow up the entire earth (and they would if they had the means) just to kill others who don’t think the way they do. Even if it means they kill themselves too.

Don’t think i’m comparing catholics to osma bin laden. Only that the premise of both faiths is still ...the goofy fruit from same ha ha bush. Control over people. To make them do what you want, to suit your own purposes.

Keep them sedated, give them a reason for living and dying, tell them if they do what you say, it will all be ok... and if they don’t there will be hell to pay, get them to belive this, and you are their master.

Sadly the bible was written by men. Words translated and touched my many men. Corrupt men with their own desires to control. You can read between the lines and see the wisdom of a person that onece lived named jesus. The basic premises are there and they are wise. And then you can see the contradictions as well. Commands that don’t mesh with the rest. The layer of control, added to the story by men.

Jesus never meant for men to build great cathedrals to his name. Or worship images of him. He’d like to have had his subjects simply understand and belive his teachings in the desert, in a church of nature. No gold chalices, no decadent wine to drink, no fancy robes and stained glass architecture erected as an illusion to help those that are short of faith to belive. So they might see his might, and donate more, more money, to buy more gold chalices, and more wine, and more churches, more lavish, more corrupt.

Somewhere in the story the evil took hold and twisted a simple man’s wisdom into the terror that sweeps this earth called faith. Faith in what? Who’s version of events?

Think about it. Free your mind.




 
Written By: Wog
URL: http://na.com
Here is a nice couple of links you can read that backs up the control argument. In specific respect to catholicism and christianity.

http://paganwiccan.about.com/library/weekly/aa032503holidays.htm

http://members.tripod.com/~theGreen_Man/druidchr.html

The curches of god during the time of widespread pagan worship adopted and created many of the holidays you see them supporting today from pagan holidays and practices. These practices were not a part of catholicism and christianity at all before this time. They had nothing to do with god whatsoever (Paganism was around thousands of years before christ).

The fact that the churches of god felt more strongly about adding to their numbers by getting pagan followers (that they could control) than they did about their own beliefs is very telling.

I sure hope you don’t celebrate easter with little bunny symbols or christmas with a tree in your house. You do know the tree is a pagan ritual yes? A symbol of how the church stole rituals from the pagans just to get more attendance. More power, more money. While sarificing their own belifs. Some faith...
 
Written By: Wog
URL: http://na.com
And don’t even get me started with the catholic church selling indulgences at one point... lol. Want to sin? Buy your forgiveness ahead of time! Now new and improved blessing power!
 
Written By: Wog
URL: http://na.com
So, because some people are less than idea representitives of a cause, negates the validity of the cause?
 
Written By: Bithead
URL: http://bitheads.blogspot.com
So, because some people are less than ideal representitives of a cause, negates the validity of the cause?


In this case, yes. The validity of "their" cause is negated. The very fact that there are so many variants of "the followers of christ" all who think the others are wrong and belive themselves to be right, proves that the original manuscript has not been preserved.

Everyone has their version of events. Men’s versions of events that once happend a long time ago that nobody really knows anymore what the original version was.

The validity of the cause is negated, simply becuase it cannot be validated. Just saying something is so, doesn’t make it so.

From a factual perspective, the Catholic church as an example has been through some extremely corrupt scandals, and done extremely questionable things in the past. Little things like crushing people with large stones if they don’t confess their belief in jesus etc.

If they do things like this, why would you belive that these little moral indescresions don’t stretch to other areas. They have had ample opportunity to modify their texts, and change versions of events for their own purposes.

A long and sortid history has brought religion where it is today. To just buy into it at face value, without inspection shows a general propensity to indulge in self-delusion.

I feel there is a lot of wisdom in the bible. I think a smart person can read it and take what they want from it, and leave what they don’t. Every human on this planet has a path to go down, and their own truths to discover.

Just giving yourself over to someone else’s truth "faithfully" negates your very existance. Why are people even here, if our only purpose is to be a pawn in someone else’s game?

Perhaps some people can’t handle not knowing exactly what life is about. Maybe the thought is frightening. Maybe religion makes them feel safe as it gives them an instruction manual for life and frees them from the work of actually having to figure their life out.

I just think that these people, should at least stop and think about the history behind their religions, what they really mean, and also weigh the interference and corruptions that men have brought to them, and ask themselves, "am I following the things jesus said? or am I following the things that my church said? And further more... how do I know what jesus really said anyway? Who transcribed it? Who copied it? What did they add when they copied it? What did they change?"

The vailidity is definately in question.
 
Written By: Wog
URL: http://na.com

 
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