Blog America Posted by: McQ
on Monday, May 09, 2005
Why do I have the sneaking suspicion this may go the way of Air America? Could it be the cast of characters, er, "bloggers" that have something to do with that suspicion?
The essence of blogging has been the one-man band, the big mouth in the basement, the pajama-clad pontificator taking on the media establishment.
Now Arianna Huffington, who knows something about seizing the spotlight, wants to change that. Today she launches a 300-person blog, the Huffington Post, featuring lots of her famous showbiz friends, that could redefine the nature of online commentary, or at least bring her another 15 minutes.
Her marquee names—Warren Beatty, Diane Keaton, Julia Louis-Dreyfus, David Geffen, Rob Reiner, Albert Brooks, Bill Maher, Larry David—aren't exactly hurting for ways to get their messages out.
"The great thing about blogging is that your thoughts don't have to have a beginning, middle and end," says Huffington, arguing that famous folks are usually too busy to craft an op-ed piece. "You can just put a thought out there in the cultural bloodstream."
Huffington's Hollywood pals—who also include such writers and producers as David Mamet, Norman Lear, Mike Nichols and Aaron Sorkin—are just the neon attractions. She is also touting Walter Cronkite, Gary Hart, Arthur Schlesinger, Mort Zuckerman, Vernon Jordan and Robert Kennedy Jr. And while the blog is heavy on left-wingers, she has reached out to the right, luring the likes of John Fund of the Wall Street Journal, Tony Blankley of the Washington Times and National Review's David Frum.
Note that those on the right, at least those mentioned, are all writers, while those on the left come from many different areas. What, no "reaching out" to the likes of Pat Robertson and Ralph Reed? Heh ... this will be fun to watch though. The corporatization of blogging. Opinion, anyone?
UPDATE: You can find the site here. Note the link to Democratic Underground under "Blogroll". Heh ... yeah, she gets it, doesn't she? What, no Free Republic?
UPDATE [Jon Henke]—I'll weigh in. I noticed Instapundit, John Cole and James Joyner taking note of it this morning—reactions seem to be mixed, falling to the side of "ok, now what?"
Will Huffington's blog make news, or just be a collection of occasional posts by Very Important People who can't really be candid without jeopardizing their lucrative ventures?
I'm putting my money on this: the VIPs will get publicity for the site, while the real work—the long-term, money-making work—will be done by the "seven paid staffers" who will put up virtually everything worth reading.
Contributor Laurie David says "Early every morning, we're at the kitchen table reading the papers, and within three minutes one of us is screaming. This is going to be a channel for that". Well, there are already about 10,000 blogs written by the people who just want to vent. They mostly occupy the lower reaches of the blogosphere. This is no accident.
Eventually, though, that Augean stable of 300 bloggers will be cleansed, and the few interesting ones will remain. More importantly, those "seven paid staffers" will do the important work of uncovering, linking, and framing stories that keeps the eyeballs coming back for more. I don't find it difficult at all to see HuffingtonPost.com become a center-left Drudge. And, ultimately, I think that will be good for all of us.
I don't think Arianna's going to fail ... Face it: Many of us will go to the site and crane our necks to see who's making an ass of himself in Huffington's virtual living room, who's passed out in the powder room, who's plotting in the library, and who's kissy-kissing in the foyer. ... In addition, I'm sure Arianna will be mining Al Franken's research groupies for original reporting and political scoops to add some cred to the party. Her blogroll (as fascinating for its inclusions as its omissions, ahem!) sends a signal that she wants to be taken seriously as a blogger and that she wants the right side of the blogosphere to pay attention.
Welcome to the house of fun, now you've got a blog.
In any event, HuffingtonPost.com has a good, clear layout, and there's always room for more voices in this marketplace. I'll add them to the QandO blogroll, and keep an eye on it. Of course, the prestige of The Huffington Post (i.e., the blog) would be enganced immensely if they added some libertarians to their blogroll. And, yes, as a matter of fact, I do have one in mind.
Who cares? We hear enough from most of these people as it stands now. Who in the blogosphere, other than those already part of the choir, will be seeking out opinions from celebrities that are already splashed on every major news network and television program? I mean, if I want to know what Aaron Sorkin thinks about a particular policy question, I’ll watch "The West Wing" (etc., etc. ...). The whole thing strikes me as some sort of calculated plan by the Left not to miss the blog-boat come the next election, combined with the continuing attempt to resurrect ’60’s-style socialist dogma. I predict that both will fail.
I didnt understand what you meant by "going the way of Air America"? They just opened 6 new stations. does that mean huffington’s blog will become popular throughout the country? or are you just out of touch with reality?
Conservatives love to chant (altogether now), that WLIB has "fewer listeners" with Air America than it did with a Caribbean music format. But these conservatives ignore the fact that (a) the difference is one-tenth of one percentage point, (b) advertisers are much more interested in middle and upper class liberals than they are in immigrants from the Caribbean, and (c) WLIB has more of the 25 to 54 year old listeners that advertisers covet than WOR, the station that carries right-wing talk show hosts Bill O’Reilly, Michael Savage, and Bob Grant.
And by the way, WOR has a much more powerful 50,000 watt signal than WLIB’s 10,000 watt directional signal, meaning that everybody in the New York City market can pick up WOR clearly, while WLIB can’t even be heard in much of the area.
A difference of one-tenth of a percentage point is not statistically significant. And Air America didn’t "pick" the station or the wattage—the station was the only one available.
Furthermore,the other 56 stations that are currently carrying Air America are owned by other broadcasting companies that have seen that the format has been successful enough that they want to get in on the action. That’s hardly a "failure" of Air America—in fact, in the radio business "progressive talk" is the "hot new format."
A difference of one-tenth of a percentage point is not statistically significant. And Air America didn’t "pick" the station or the wattage—the station was the only one available.
Well it certainly doesn’t speak to the power of the programming if a 10,000 watt station in Manhatten with a new format can’t increase audience, does it?
Furthermore,the other 56 stations that are currently carrying Air America are owned by other broadcasting companies that have seen that the format has been successful enough that they want to get in on the action.
That’s right ... the latecomers. They saw the format to be successful, but that doesn’t mean this version of the format is as successful, does it?
That’s hardly a "failure" of Air America—in fact, in the radio business "progressive talk" is the "hot new format."
That’s marketing-speak Dennis ... radio trots out "hot new formats" every year and most of them die a dismal death.
Just checked the latest Arbitron ratings and see that the number two radio station in New York City, WSKQ, beats all the talk stations handily, with a "Tropical" music format! Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Bill O’Reilly, Al Franken, etc. beaten badly by Caribbean music! Oh, the humanity!
Just checked the latest Arbitron ratings and see that the number two radio station in New York City, WSKQ, beats all the talk stations handily, with a "Tropical" music format! Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Bill O’Reilly, Al Franken, etc. beaten badly by Caribbean music! Oh, the humanity!
I’m not surprised at all. My point was that you make a great point of saying that WLIB wasn’t doing any better in its overall ratings that it was when it played Caribbean music—as if Caribbean music couldn’t possibly be a popular format. But now you admit that it’s a more popular format than talk (including conservative talk).
By the way, a quick check of the latest Arbitron ratings shows that KPTK in Seattle has more than doubled its overall ratings since becoming an Air America affiliate; WINZ in Miami has tripled its ratings by doing the same; KKZN in the Denver/Boulder market has more than tripled its ratings; and KPOJ in Portland has increased its ratings EIGHT-FOLD (from 0.4 to 3.3).
So much for the conservative talking point that Air America is "failing."
(a) the difference is one-tenth of one percentage point, (b) advertisers are much more interested in middle and upper class liberals than they are in immigrants from the Caribbean, and (c) WLIB has more of the 25 to 54 year old listeners that advertisers covet than WOR, the station that carries right-wing talk show hosts Bill O’Reilly, Michael Savage, and Bob Grant.
Regarding (a), I would note that .1 is not exactly statistically insignificant in New York City. In a much smaller market, it might be, but NYC is a much tighter market.
However, point (b) sort of mitigates that point (a). While a .1 might affect revenue negatively, we really can’t tell if it will from the available evidence. It’s entirely possible that a .7 share would produce greater revenue than a .8 share, assuming the demographics are better, and the audience is targetted by advertisers willing to spend more. Frankly, I don’t know the Carribean VS liberal listener paradigm, so I don’t know if, all else equal, there’s more money to be made in one than the other. I don’t think it’s an unreasonable guess that Air America would get a demographic targetted by more advertisers, though.
There is also the question of costs, on which I don’t think any of us really has any firm numbers. I think it’s pretty obvious that a Carribean music format would require very minimal overhead in the way of salaries and other product maintenance. (consultants, promotions, jocks, studios) On the other hand, a 24/7 locally-staffed talk radio station, with ensemble shows hosted by prominent celebrities would require quite a lot of overhead. So, that has to be taken into account on the bottom line. Of course, economies of scale, that is mitigated by syndication.
Regarding (c), I’d be very interested in seeing specific numbers. Does LIB have more 25-54 all week, or in certain dayparts? Is it 25-54 persons, 25-54 men, or 25-54 women? It wouldn’t surprise me if LIB beat WOR, though, as WOR has never been particularly strong. They were the 2nd horse in a two horse, market, and it wouldn’t be particularly surprising to see them the third horse in a 3-horse market.
For what it’s worth, I think Air America is going along a more viable business model now, and I’m on record from more than a year ago predicting that they can be successful.
On the other hand—and acknowleding the Portland station as an outlier—I don’t think doubling and tripling the 12+ ratings of a few stations is quite the monumental success you might think it is. The stations going for Air America are typically the niche formats...the "tax shelter" stations, who really don’t have anything better to do. Those stations tend to flip formats often, testing the waters for emerging formats, or protecting the flanks of more profitable FM sister stations. Among third-tier FMs, there was a huge rush to the "All 80s" format a few years ago. They broke out quite strongly, and everybody predicted they were the Next Big Thing.
Not many of those left, are there?
That being said, I do think Air America is here to stay, and I do think they’ve found a good business model. But you should be cautious not to overinflate the sudden surge of a few third-tier radio stations. Not yet, anyway.
I’m not surprised at all. My point was that you make a great point of saying that WLIB wasn’t doing any better in its overall ratings that it was when it played Caribbean music—as if Caribbean music couldn’t possibly be a popular format. But now you admit that it’s a more popular format than talk (including conservative talk).
By the way, a quick check of the latest Arbitron ratings shows that KPTK in Seattle has more than doubled its overall ratings since becoming an Air America affiliate; WINZ in Miami has tripled its ratings by doing the same; KKZN in the Denver/Boulder market has more than tripled its ratings; and KPOJ in Portland has increased its ratings EIGHT-FOLD (from 0.4 to 3.3).
So much for the conservative talking point that Air America is "failing."
By the way, a quick check of the latest Arbitron ratings shows that KPTK in Seattle has more than doubled its overall ratings since becoming an Air America affiliate; WINZ in Miami has tripled its ratings by doing the same; KKZN in the Denver/Boulder market has more than tripled its ratings; and KPOJ in Portland has increased its ratings EIGHT-FOLD (from 0.4 to 3.3).
Good lord, Dennis. Mario Cumo, as bad as he was, could pull those numbers in those cities.
Huh? No, I don’t think Mario Cuomo could "pull those numbers," anywhere. You started this thread with a premise that Air America had "failed" because WLIB had gotten a 12+ rating that was one-tenth of one percent below what it got with a Caribbean music format, which is silly in so many ways (see my previous posts). And no, one-tenth of one percent is not statistically significant, in New York or anywhere on this planet. Arbitron ratings and poll numbers in general are not that precise (ever heard of the concept of "margin of error"?)
By the way, WABC, home of Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity, lost a FULL percentage point from fall to winter in the 12+ Arbitron ratings—ten times the one-tenth of a percentage point that you’re so fixated on. WLIB’s 12+ rating stayed the same from fall to winter, at a time when you’d expect listenership to political talk to drop.
Air America gets great ratings in Portland because it’s on a station with a decent signal. It gets so-so ratings in NYC because it’s on a station with a lousy signal. It’s as simple as that. And no, the Portland market is no more liberal than the New York market (Bush won the big suburban county just to the south of Portland).
You started this thread with a premise that Air America had "failed" because WLIB had gotten a 12+ rating that was one-tenth of one percent below what it got with a Caribbean music format, which is silly in so many ways (see my previous posts).
The only one using the word "failed" in this thread is you.
They’re a marginal operation at best and that rankles, doesn’t it?
The only one using the word "failed" in this thread is you. They’re a marginal operation at best and that rankles, doesn’t it?
Looking back on your original post in this thread, it’s true that you didn’t actually use the word "failure," but you did say:
Why do I have the sneaking suspicion this may go the way of Air America?
Somehow I interpreted that to say that you thought Air America had "failed," rather than it was a "marginal operation."
And speaking of marginal operations, at this point in its history, the Fox News Channel had terrible ratings and was on the way to losing $130 million dollars in its first two years. Did that "rankle" you back then? It takes time to build a talk audience, as WABC found when it struggled for years after switching fro pop music to talk.
if rush is the gold standard, gold is crashing big time. rush is a has-been who has been around for decades and is on the way out. just the opposite for air america who is a year old and took 1/3 of his audience in that short time.
i wouldnt expect much of a valid response from people who take their talking points on family values from a 3 time divorced heroin addict, with no kids, who spends his time doctor shopping and slandering the american people.
I’m not talking about content, you miss the point. I’m talking about the numbers. No one can dispute that in that context Rush set the mark. We were talking in the context of success and failure in talk radio.
less than 60 stations is a whole lot closer to failure than 350
And I would think you could construct a better straw man.
I’m not talking about content, you miss the point. I’m talking about the numbers. No one can dispute that in that context Rush set the mark. We were talking in the context of success and failure in talk radio.
less than 60 stations is a whole lot closer to failure than 350
And I would think you could construct a better straw man.
Using the WLIB station as an example, AirAmerica is down 2/10 of a percentage point from its high 2 quarters ago. Funny thing: WOR is down 2/10 of a percentage point from ITS high 2 quarters ago. The other big talk station - WABC - is down one whole point.
This means that ALL talk numbers are down, which is to be expected now that the election is over.
AAR is holding its own. Clear Channel - not a left-wing company - is opening AAR stations all over the U.S. because they know there is money to be made. It’s clearly a business decision, not an altruistic one.
Barely 1/4 of the eligible voters in this country voted for Bush; there is clearly a market for the other 3/4, and AAR is reaching out to that market.
I’m not talking about content, you miss the point. I’m talking about the numbers. No one can dispute that in that context Rush set the mark. We were talking in the context of success and failure in talk radio.
less than 60 stations is a whole lot closer to failure than 350
But for years Rush was on only ONE station. And that’s "a lot closer to failure" than 57. So what?
So what we are talking about now, not 15 years ago.
But since you brought it up compare the growth of both shows from the time of syndication. At this point in time Rush’s show had over one hundred more stations than AA.
So what we are talking about now, not 15 years ago.
But since you brought it up compare the growth of both shows from the time of syndication. At this point in time Rush’s show had over one hundred more stations than AA.
But... the reason for AA’s impending failure IS Content. It’s that simple.
As you may know, I’m a former radio professional, with a little under 20 years under my belt. This subject is oe I know, I suspct, better than most of you.
Rush even at the beginning, was carrying numbers on rimshot stations that made the big boys sit up and take notice. Local examples:
One of the first stations to take up Rush was just to the south of me here, WYSL/1040..(Which at the time was a daytimer on 1030... protecting WBZ in Boston at night. Annoyed me no end I couldn’t get BZ during the day anymore)
Their little 500 watts... from 30 miles south of town (COL=Avon, NY)... was pulling larger numbers on Rush’s show than the 50,000 talker in town, WHAM/1180, where Rush now is, locally.
(WYSL has since moved to 1040am and is slated next month or so, to push their power to 23kw which would make it the second strongest signal in the market.. but it totally trashes WHO’s signal from DeMoines.... sad.)
Let’s do a direct comparison.
Years ago, the big top 40 in town was WBBF/950. They were a legendary station... 1000 watts into a 4 bay array that was directional both day and night. The signal was notoriously weak, and yet they were consistantly pulling better numbers, dispite having the second weakest signal in town. Only WNYR/680 had a weaker signal, at 250 watts from the west side, and they were a daytimer, having to protect CFTR at night. Everyone else was running 5000 watts or more at the time, and had comparatively huge physical coverage, yet weren’t pulling the numbers little WBBF was. Again, Content. THe programming on BBF was top notch top (Now) clasic top 40 radio... the jocks were great, the sound was unreal. They even knocked off a 5000 watt competitor... WAXC/1460 in head to head for several books running. (WAXC shed that call years ago, and the station is now being run by the local Catholics)
Now today, that 950am signal... at the same power levels and radiation patterns...is called WROC, and is running Err America. The last book I saw had them dead last in the market, for commercial stations, and even being beat out by some of the religious rimshotters on the low end of the FM band with a couple hundred watts each, and a quarter or less, of the coverage. Sad to see what leaning left has done to that once proud outlet.
Conclusion, once again: It’s content that drives this disparity. The people just are not buying what Err America is selling. They’re losing their stations real money and real listners in every market.
And by the way, I think I should point out regarding WOR, that they just recently did a Studio move.... I forget the dates.... I haven’t tuned up on them recently, but studio moves usually have an adverse effect on a radio station; The "sound" changes and so do the numbers, for a while.
I can certainly understand why the Right wing would be worried about Air America.
I listened to Al Franken during one of his on-the-road shows this morning and he was VERY strong. Did some hilarious uptakes of the Right.
And Franken was speaking to a packed house I can tell you that! Air America is spreading like wildfire and there is little that the Right is going ot be able to do to stop it. What is good for the goose is good for the gander, as they say.
Rush Limbaugh set the standard for political talk radio and believe me, he is quickly getting outclassed by the jocks on Air America. He will be eating their dust soon enough.
I remember the slooooow acceptance of Rush and Gordon Liddy back at the beginning of talk radio and I can tell you that Air America is getting shot out of a cannon in comparison.
With Randi Rhodes and Mike Malloy stealing headlines on a daily basis, the continued growth of Air America is a done deal.
WLS 910 AM the blowtorch 50KW station in Chicago, has long had some very strong Liberal talk shows, Jay Marvin and Mike Malloy being two classic examples.
Well that is good that you are at least able to accept the statistics! A lot of people would be very reluctant to face the fact that Air America is blasting onto the radio scene across this nation...
I remember Limbaugh from the early days, when Wichita Kansas was one of his biggest markets for several years. He was out of most of that major markets for some time, and the small town stations was all that he was on. The radio market was not owned by huge corporations then, and it was easier to get onto stations.
Having said that, Rush has been a great success. No doubt. He covers nearly 100% of the population. But Air America can be heard by over 60% of the American population now, in just a year. 16 out of 20 major markets. Quite a feat.
I’m not here to run down the success of right wing radio. But they’ve had years to build a market. These things don’t happen overnight.
Air America has been a big success. But I love how you guys want to say because they aren’t the number one stations in every market, or any market, they are a failure. It’s going to take time to beat the pigman’s ratings, and it may not happen. But that doesn’t mean they aren’t a success.
Running the small stations is being used by Err America now for two reasons; * It’s how Limbaugh did it, and they’re hoping to build enough listenership so that poeple demand the bigger stations pick them up.
* But hteir programming isn’t going over. THe ideas they’re tryoing to sell America are simply not selling. So, Limbaugh’s pattern isn’t holding true for Err America... and they’re staying on the small stations... not moving to the bigger outlets... not of choice but because nobody else will take them...and between the small coverage and the small programming, their AQH’s suck sewage.
The only reason it’s statyed afloat as long as it has on those smaller stations is the money the likes of Soros have been pouring into it to keep the little 500watt contractor stations out in the sticks running it. Stations that would be running spanish Language stuff, Music of your Life, or TM automation, or dead air. Contracted time, in hour long slots. And each one can be claimed as a station.
But regardless of the number of the dinkly little one-lungers out there they ahve running their sludge, it’s the listenership numbers .. the ratings... that count... and THEY say that Err America is not getting listeners... and as a result, they’re not selling advertising, other than the "This is Bob, and he needs drugs to get his thing big" spots, which air everywhere anyway.
In a business where stations drop formats and callsigns even, for bad ratings more often than their PD’s change socks, trust this old radio hand... Err America is gone, son... just history.
Guys, I think you’re all engaging in some silly hyperbole. Air America is neither "failing", nor "the hot new format". "Talk radio" is a format. Liberal talk radio isn’t a "new format", it’s just a kind of talk radio.
On the whole, Air America is doing fairly well on third-tier stations. The fact that they have around 60 stations isn’t, in itself, astounding. Third-tier stations are relatively easy to pick up, since they’re usually floundering anyway. Clearly AA is doing well in some markets, middling in others, and poorly in still others. On the whole, they’re doing alright, and it looks like they can be here to stay if the executives can work out the best business model. (i.e., only offering programming to stations that will play everything was a poor model....syndicating individual programs is better, as they’ve discovered)
At any rate, look up to the comment I left earlier. I described some of the details in that comment. In any event, describing AA as "successful" or "gone" is just ridiculous. It’s far from certain what will happen, but it appears that AA is going to do alright. For a variety of reasons—demographic, among others—it’s unlikely they’ll ever catch the mainstream Righty stations, but that doesn’t mean they’re "failing" by any stretch of the imagination.
That’s right. Thanks for the correction. WLS is 890, not 910. Well anyway now we know where to go for some more Left leaning broadcasts.
What’s with Limbaugh recently? The quality of his show has really gone downhill. It used to at least be somewhat structured but between the paper-rattling and the self absorbed generalities there is precious little content.
I would listen to Liddy any day as an alternative to Limbaugh.
In any event, here in Ohio we have many Air America stations
Cincinnati, OH - WCKY 1530 AM Columbus, OH - WTPG 1230 AM Youngstown, OH - WANR ’The Pulse’ 1570 AM Kent, OH - WJMP/1520 Kent
So I pretty much have good covereage where ever I go in the State.
WJMP? You’re kidding, right? Daytimer, and an Akron rimshotter at that.... (COL=Kent, if I’m not much mistaken. I’m quite sure the mush heads at Kent State are listeners, but few others.)
WCKY; the most powerful of the lot... 50kw. Was running Music of Your Life until about a year or two back. Numbers currently in the crapper.
WTPG... First station in Ohio to give up what they were running to put Err America up, if I’m not much mistaken. 1230 has always been a graveyard channel. WTPG is a Clear Channel station.... one of the ones Clear Channel coughed up to support hte Err America net... And as with the rest of the ones CC is using for the purpose, they don’t have the coverage God gave a CB radio. Was the Columbus Equiv of WBBF, which I described above.... was a great top-40... WCOL. They’ll not see those numbers again for a while.
WANR... A Ma and Pa. Their COL is not Youngstown, but Warren... a fair distance away... Another low power rimshotter. http://www.warrenpages.com/massillon/1570/
They currently list their lineup a little differently: Daily Lineup 6am-8am: Cory and Emanuel 8am-10am: The New Talk of the Town 10am-2pm: G Gordon Liddy 2pm-5pm: The Dave Ramsey Show
Oh, come on, Jon... Look...They themselves touted themselves as the net that would bring down Limbaugh. They made no bones about the concept of using the same rimshot to big time trick he did. They’re still having problems with payroll, because they’re still not seling ads.
In any of these respects the network can be considered an abject failure.
Even the liberals themselves are starting to eye the "fairness doctrine" again... and are complaining they’re being shut out. Clearly... THEY think Err America is a failure, as well.
Air America’s failure is not simply because of Air America management not knowing what the hell they’re doing in a commercial radio sense, though I agree that factor does add to their problem... Particularly, Air America’s mismanaged because they actually believe the tripe they put on the air. Air America has not been well-managed because they don’t think like Capitalists... They think, rather, like Socialists, and thereby have no concept of how to run a successful commercial business. Winess the payroll isses. Witness the complaints from stations not getting paid.
Shorter version; Err America suffers from it’s own ideology in two ways:
1: It’s ideology is turning listeners off, which starves off it’s income
2: It manages within it’s socialist ideology and thereby is doomed to economic failure before it even hit air even if the first point weren’t true.
It’s already... even by the lights of the left... an abysmal failure.
Well, if you define success highly enough, I’m sure you can call them a failure. You could do the same for anybody. But they’re expanding, and some of their stations are certainly making money. I don’t think AA is/was mismanaged. I just think they had to experiment to find the right business model for liberal talk radio.
As far as indicators, I’m aware that there were some payroll and station payment issues in the early going. I’ve heard of no such thing since then. That you disagree with their political philosophy is certainly not evidence of their failure.
They’re a reasonably successful start-up operating, and a middly syndicator. There’s very little reason to believe they can’t continue succesfully, provided they can cultivate young talent for new shows.
Well, if you define success highly enough, I’m sure you can call them a failure
As I indicated... I’m using their own definitions from the days when the network had just started out.
And yes there is reason to exepct they won’t continue... as I suggested... they’re not selling ads.
And you know that’s the case when they start trotting out the above list of stations as "success stories". As I think I’ve demonstrated rather well, what successes they’ve had are minimal at best... and highly exaggerated by them, in truth.
Now granted, I’m bringing a couple of decades of radio experience to this table... but here’s the thing... the degree to which these things are being blown up by the defenders of Err America, can be easily seen with a little web based research. Should I say that’s usually the case with stuff the left tries to pass off as truth?
As I indicated... I’m using their own definitions from the days when the network had just started out.
Perhaps I’m missing it, but I don’t actually see any reference to any actual statement of AA regarding their specific metrics for "success".
Further, I don’t really know how you could determine whether or not the syndicator is selling advertisements. Their NY station may not be beating the top tier station, but a 1.2-1.3 is certainly enough to drive revenue. Especially if they have good 25-54 demographics. If you have specific evidence that neither the syndicator or the stations are getting advertisements, you’re welcome to present it. "I don’t hear many on the station I listen to" is anecdotal, and worthless.
And you know that’s the case when they start trotting out the above list of stations as "success stories". As I think I’ve demonstrated rather well, what successes they’ve had are minimal at best... and highly exaggerated by them, in truth.
Well, as I’ve already said twice, claiming Air America is a screaming success is just as much hyperbole as claiming it is a failure. They’re doing moderately well. That’s good enough for now. If they can cultivate some good hosts for the future, they ought to continue building.
Should I say that’s usually the case with stuff the left tries to pass off as truth?
That’s a bipartisan activity. In any event, I don’t think they’re lying, or even mistaken. You guys are just putting the bar where it’s most convenient for your own definitions, then claiming success/failure.
I recall quite a lot of people claiming that AA would be off the air just as soon as the election was over. Clearly, they were quite wrong.
(shrug) Try it this way, Jon... If someone comes into an elective office, telling us up front what their agenda is, what they want to do while in office... and then doesn’t do what they said they’d do, can we in fairness call this a failure, by their own measure?
I’m calling their statements going in... their promises... (or, threats, if you like) as setting the line of failure. And I’m saying that have not met the standard of what they themseves said they’d do. IN short, they’ve failed... and rather badly at that.
To do anything less, is moving the bar down, so Err America can claim to be a success.
Further, I don’t really know how you could determine whether or not the syndicator is selling advertisements
Sorry, didn’t note this earlier.
THe answer’s simple; For one thing, by listening to how many breakaways are filled with "Publc Service Announcements" at thet network level... breaks the locals don’t bother to break away for, because they have no spots to run. Such non-commercial breaks ahve been overwhelming in every market I’ve heard them in. (eight, to date... As you may know, I do travel around quite a bit, and I’m also one of the few poeple you’ve ever heard of who listens to AM Radio via a 60ft Anetnna in the back yard. I do listen around quite a bit. Also, they’re available at Sirius, of course, which sends a net feed in exactly the format that the locals get on their feed lines. And of course, they’re available on the web, as a webcast, which also, apparently is right off the master board.
Also, that the net shut down it’s LA and Chicago sales offices can’t be helping. http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4964751/
Columnist Michael Goodwin of the New York Daily News quoted a marketing communications manager from General Motors, declaring "GM will not advertise on any Air America affiliates." And that was just a start.
Hard as it is to listen to, it’s not hard at all for someone who’s run a board to figure out what’s going on regarding their sales... or more correctly the lack of them.
What statements?
Would Mark walsh, the first of three CEO’s in a year, do?
"We’re trying to build a defensible, profitable, sustainable, high-growth media business." That means attracting a big crossover audience the way Limbaugh does."
Well, clearly they’ve failed at that. Walsh saw the handwriting on the wall early, leaving four weeks after the net went live.
Color me unimpressed. I’d hoped you’d have something better than "I’ve heard some PSA’s". Hell, I worked for a group that had an AM station that ran PSAs all the time, and they were—at the time—the top money-making AM station in the town. You can’t judge profitability by the presence of some PSAs. What’s more, since they are entirely syndicated, there is very little overhead. So, it doesn’t take much to turn a profit...especially in an industry in which 30%-40% profits are normal.
Also, that the net shut down it’s LA and Chicago sales offices can’t be helping.
Eric, that happened a year ago. They were having problems at the time, and those problems were dealt with. A story from May of 2004—when AA was on different stations—is hardly indicative of current financial problems.
"We’re trying to build a defensible, profitable, sustainable, high-growth media business." That means attracting a big crossover audience the way Limbaugh does."
And from that, you conclude that they’ve failed? Bithead, don’t be so ridiculously tendentious. They’ve been around for about a year. If you think their metric for success was to have Limbaugh sized audiences within 1 year, you’re either ignorant of AA’s strategy, or of radio.
AA planned on "substantial" losses for at least two years. Now, if you have a profit/loss statement for the network, or for individual stations, bring it on. "They’re not as big as Limbaugh" is apples to oranges.
Jon, the one factor you’re not dealing with, here, is Err America is using less breaks per hour than about any other syndicated talk show... and yet they’re still filling with non-money making stuff.
Yes, their sales offices closing was a year ago. Find me a news story saying they’ve opened for business in those markets again.
And since you bring up the Limbaugh comparison again, No, I don’t think they were looking for that size of audience right off the bat, though they certainly SOUNDED like it given their swagger.
However, let’s recall....Limbaugh was turning DOWN ads at this stage and was on roughly half again as many stations... and covering not nearly as many potential listeners... nor are they turning the ratings in the markets that they’re in, as he was.
Here it is; Err America is not on the same track as Limbaugh was, at this stage, by ANY description.
And the next time you hear a PSA running on any local station running Limbaugh, let us know. (Yes, I know, Limbaugh’s net feeds fill with PSA’s and humor stu for the scheduled local breaks... but.. and here’s theb point... they’re always filled, locally.
Jon, the one factor you’re not dealing with, here, is Err America is using less breaks per hour than about any other syndicated talk show... and yet they’re still filling with non-money making stuff.
Show me. Show me comparative clocks. Show me their Cost-Per-Point advertising rates, and the revenue that results from those rates. If you can’t, then it’s pretty apparent that you’re just pulling the numbers you like out of your ass.
Yes, their sales offices closing was a year ago. Find me a news story saying they’ve opened for business in those markets again.
Both LA and Chicago have recently gotten AA stations back. I’m not sure that AA is opening up local sales offices, because—if I recall their remodeled business plan—they’re trying to sell at the national level, and have local stations sell themselves. That’s how syndicators work. Syndicators don’t sell local space. Premiere, WestwoodOne....they only sell national spots.
Here it is; Err America is not on the same track as Limbaugh was, at this stage, by ANY description.
Well, no. But, again, that’s apples and oranges. When Limbaugh came on the scene AM radio was a dying format. It was a barren wasteland, and Limbaugh was able to do well, because he essentially reinvigorated the format AND the AM band. Things are a great deal more crowded nowadays, and entry is a great deal more difficult. Especially considering the corporatized nature of radio. It was easier to sell a few thousand struggling family-owned stations on a burgeoning format than it is to sell multi-billion dollar corporations who’ve already spent the money on research and put their stations in a flanking or revenue producing position.
It was relatively easy for Limbaugh, because AM talk radio was starting from a positively paleolithic baseline.
Oh, and a pet peeve: Rush Limbaugh doesn’t have "25 million listeners". At any given time, he probably has 1-2 million (which is quite impressive, and still leaves him on top of the pack). But the "25 million" figure is a gross exaggeration based on "cume listeners". Essentially, he gets to count the same people more than once.
Show me. Show me comparative clocks. Show me their Cost-Per-Point advertising rates, and the revenue that results from those rates. If you can’t, then it’s pretty apparent that you’re just pulling the numbers you like out of your ass.
So, you really think such figures are available on the net? Comon, Jon, you know better.
Both LA and Chicago have recently gotten AA stations back
(Chuckle) Yeah....In a far worse situation than they were before. In both markets, the power and coverage on the stations they moved to was even lower than the ones they started with. In the case of LA for example, they ended up on a daytime only station that had been owned by Capitol Records, and was playing Beatles music... only... (it was actually an interesting idea... they ended up playing a lot of their stuff I’ve never heard... alternate versions of songs and whatnot) They dropped the format for low ratings, and the company later sold the station. Funny part is, the station is now pulling worse AQH’s than they are with Err America on it.
Here it is; Err America is not on the same track as Limbaugh was, at this stage, by ANY description.
Well, no. But, again, that’s apples and oranges
Not when THAT’S WHAT THEY SAID THEY’D DO!!!!! It’s not apples and oranges... that’s the standard they claimed they’d follow! Their CEO in his statements used Rush as the standard they’d follow....And they failed. Your arguments about it being a different radio world now are quite correct... but he discounted that in his statements, arguably thinking they would overcome that difference, because their product... liberalism... was so good. He didn’t count on the degree of rejection from listeners.
Aren’t I allowed to judge the network on the standards that their own leadership publicly sets, Jon?
When Limbaugh came on the scene AM radio was a dying format. It was a barren wasteland, and Limbaugh was able to do well, because he essentially reinvigorated the format AND the AM band
Well, all deferece to Rush... (whose staff, I have reason to think, reads here, or at least scans) I would argue that to a large degree the real groundbreakers there were ABC Talkradio, at least for the formatics. I ran that format on a 5kw AM here in Rochester for a couple years, until it crapped out.
But there’s a tie-in there between TalkRadio and Err America... And it’s a lesson that’s been re-taught every time they try to get a national liberal talkshow, or network, going... And, it’s one few take into consideration;
I would argue that the reason Talkradio failed was it’s left of center attitude. The only show they did that would even be close to right-side would have been Ray Breen, whose excellent show they had in the net’s overnight. Everything else and I mean everything, was far leftist. Once the excitment over the new Talk Radio format had died off, and the listeners started really thinking about what was being SAID, their listenership dropped off like a stone.
It happened with Cuomo, and it’s already happening with Err America.
And your point about Cumes is well taken... I tended to stick with AQH’s, and TSL’s myself, when judging such matters... because I was looking at things from a programming, not a sales, angle. Than again, I expect that Err America is also using the Cumes, simply because they sound more impressive when you’re trying to sell spot time.
They dropped the format for low ratings, and the company later sold the station. Funny part is, the station is now pulling worse AQH’s than they are with Err America on it.
Should read... "The station is now pulling worse AQH’s with Err America than they were running Beatles songs."
So, you really think such figures are available on the net?
No I don’t. That’s why I think you’re pulling your answers out of your ass. You don’t know what their financial situation is. All you know is that they are slowly expanding their station base, they are in some major markets, and their 12+ numbers are mixed. That’s it.
And, of course, a 1.2-1.3 in NYC is enough to make quite a tidy sum of money—especially if it’s concentrated in the 25-54 demographic.
Not when THAT’S WHAT THEY SAID THEY’D DO!!!!!
And what makes you think they are not building a "defensible, profitable, sustainable, high-growth media business"? If you’re making "what they said they’d do" the metric for success, you’d have to conclude they are operating exactly according to plan. After all, the very next sentence after the bit you quoted indicated that they planned on "substantial" losses for a couple years. It’s only been a bit more than 1 year. They are precisely within the boundaries of the quote you cited.
You don’t get to call the game over at halftime, and you certainly don’t get to impose your timeline on AA.
Aren’t I allowed to judge the network on the standards that their own leadership publicly sets, Jon?
Ok. In an informal interview, a former CEO said they’d lose substantial money for a substantial time period in achieving their goal. This is hardly their prospectus, but in any event, they are not "failing".
I expect that Err America is also using the Cumes, simply because they sound more impressive when you’re trying to sell spot time.
Huh? Bithead, you can’t sell radio using cume listeners. Agencies use CPP—cost-per-point—and those agencies—especially nationals—don’t ask you for your listeners stats...they have their own Arbitron analysis, and they know full well what the numbers are.
