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How many Western prisoners have died in captivity? Muslims can bitch once we start beheading people. Until then, they should be thankful that we don’t act like them. |
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Written By:
whatever
URL:
http://
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How many Western prisoners have died in captivity? Ah. I see. I didn’t know there was a pre-set number of free murders you were allowed before killing prisoners became wrong.
My bad. |
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Written By:
Dale Franks
URL:
http://www.qando.net
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Yes, look at the cartoon, our troops are EXACTLY as they are portrayed there.
*SIGH*
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Written By:
shark
URL:
http://
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I remember the old days when news folk had fact checkers and editors who would have pointed out that the "corporal" does not have any stripes on his uniform. It is a brilliant use of the cartoon format to make a political point. Just not worthy of accuracy, I guess. Hey, we mustn’t bog down in details like accuracy. Fake, but accurate. |
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Written By:
Robert Fulton
URL:
http://page1of3.com
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I remember the old days when news folk had fact checkers and editors who would have pointed out that the "corporal" does not have any stripes on his uniform. Considering that you appear not to know that US Army troops no longer wear chevrons on their BDU uniform sleeves, I’d say your comment is a case of the pot calling the kettle black. Rank insignia for BDU uniforms are now worn on the collar, either with embroidered patches, or black, anodized metal chevrons.
It’s been that way for about 15 years now. |
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Written By:
Dale Franks
URL:
http://www.qando.net
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Ho Ho! How funny is that! The way they make it seem that we like to kill dem dang rag heads! That’s like, EXACTLY how our troops are! Brilliant!
/sarcasm
Torture during wartime is never something to be proud of. There is no excuse for the unnecessary murder of innocent civilians or even guilty terrorists while captured.
Unless it meant that we would protect more innocent people. I cannot stand here and say that had it been necessary for us to torture a member of Al-qaeda to the point of near death on order to prevent 9/11 that I would be against it.
In war, the ends justifies the means. Hiroshima, Nagasaki etc....
We just better freaking win this one.
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Written By:
Tman
URL:
http://tmancensored.blogspot.com
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Its not whether people die in prison, it is the manner of death that is important. If one or more deaths can be tied to maltreatment, then the persons involved need to be punished. As this LA times article says:
"The senior defense official said the number of known deaths in detention was a small proportion of the 45,000 detainees who have been handled in Iraq alone. He compared the 37 deaths with what he said was a 3.3% death rate in federal and state prisons in the United States."
Here are the death statistics for Michigan prisons in 2000.
Instead of bouncing talking points off each other’s heads, we should attempt to determine actual facts first. My questions are:
What is the total number of prisoners in US custody by year in Iraq and Afghanistan?
What are the total numbers of deaths by year in the above population?
Has the cause of death been determined for each of the above prisoners?
Have all suspicious deaths been investigated?
What are the results of the investigations?
How do the numbers of deaths compare with a similar number of inmates in American prisons?
How do the numbers of deaths compare with a similar number of Iraqis/Afghanis in the general population?
How do the numbers of deaths compare with a similar number of Americans in the general population?
How do these numbers compare with other nations?
What is the confidence level of the above figures?
Then maybe we can start having an intelligent conversation.
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Written By:
74
URL:
http://bowramp.blogspot.com
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What 74 said.
What’s more, I have a hard time shedding too many tears for dead terrorists, the slippery slope not withstanding. |
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Written By:
Beck
URL:
http://INCITE1.blogspot.com
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But on the other hand, the fact that we’ve killed a dozen or so prisoners in captivity makes the cartoon a teensy bit more relevant.
I’m just saying. Fuck you, Dale. It’s still propaganda and not for our side. There’s no mention that we are investigating and punishing the abusers. There is an implication that the sole reason for those deaths is because the detainees are Muslim and presumably Arab. Rather important points, don’t you think? |
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Written By:
Mark Flacy
URL:
http://
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Kinda agree with Malkin on this one Dale. The cartoon portrays us as indifferent to the abuses which is an absolute fallacy. You and I are outraged, investigations are happening, and those found responsible are getting punished.
Yes, it is happening and yes it is a travesty (moreso that those on top aren’t feeling the heat more), but to make the troops seem flippant about it smears them.
Now if the cartoon was of Bush reading NewsWeek saying that and some staffer telling him another detainee had died, then the point is valid. |
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Written By:
Sharp as a Marble
URL:
http://sharpmarbles.stufftoread.com
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And given the number of prisoners, is that kind of death rate to be expected?
Look,we’re talking about an area of the world that’s just discovered modern inventions like Gunpowder, and electricity. Healthcare is in an abysmal state across the entire region. That aside from the usual amounts of fighting and whatnot, even were our military NOT there.
Perhaps, given this, the percentage of deaths we see being claimed here wouldn’t be all that out of the ordinary, from a raw numbers standpoint.
This is not to suggest I’m indifferent to the abuses which have occurred. But what I AM suggesting is that the numbers presented don’t tell the real story. |
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Written By:
Bithead
URL:
http://bitheads.blogspot.com
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"What’s more, I have a hard time shedding too many tears for dead terrorists"
Umm, actually there are quite a few people who we don’t know are terrorists; in fact, there were many that we know weren’t, but that might have had information. I’m not suggesting Miranda rights or anything, but just because you got rounded up by the US military doesn’t make you a terrorist.
"In war, the ends justifies the means."
Several notes on this. First off, the ends to not justify _and and all_ means. Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Dresden, etc were justified because they saves lives, the "lesser of two evils". Is it justified to turn the US into a military-run police state with curfiews, forced enlistment and zero private property rights, limits on travel and such to "win"? (Not implying that is what is happening now, just providing a counter example.)
Also, this war isn’t like previous wars. We arent’ fighting a coherent military force. Creating more people that hate us doesn’t help.
And finally, there is no evidence that torture actually provides any kind of useful intelligence. In fact, there is quite a bit of evidence against it. So it isn’t "justified" unless you just want revenge, in which case, we should really make sure we have the right people.
"Look,we’re talking about an area of the world that’s just discovered modern inventions like Gunpowder, and electricity. "
wow... I’m speachless...
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Written By:
Tito
URL:
http://
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Fuck you, Dale. It’s still propaganda and not for our side. There’s no mention that we are investigating and punishing the abusers. Such insightful commentary. Refusing to marh lock-step with a lunatic like Malkin earns my man a "Fuck you"?! C’mon, let’s be serious for just a moment.
Should the men and women who serve in our armed forces be subject to a lower standard when it comes to ethical behavior? Are the Straussians out there willing to let their sense of morality drift away from the certain and into the realm of relativism?
This cartoon is not "propaganda", it’s a comment on the hypocrisy of bashing Newsweek for hurting America’s image abroad. This is sort of like blaming your eyes for making you witness the horrible rape you just committed. It’s madness, and it’s about time someone said so.
And trying to hang Lynndie England out to dry does not accountability make. The tone in the military, like most other human organizations, is set at the top.
Consider, if you will, the truly disgusting example of how the Pentagon covered up Pat Tillman’s death. This, ladies and gentleman, is what (effective) propaganda looks like. The Post’s Josh White reported this week that Tillman’s parents are now ripping the Army, saying that the military’s investigations into their son’s 2004 "friendly fire" death in Afghanistan was a sham based on "lies" and that the Army cover-up made it harder for them to deal with their loss. They are speaking out now because they have finally had a chance to look at the full records of the military probe.
"Tillman’s mother and father said in interviews that they believe the military and the government created a heroic tale about how their son died to foster a patriotic response across the country," White reported. If this story doesn’t offend every fiber of your being then you forfeit all rights to righteous indignation about little bullshit cartoons in Seattle newspapers. All this "rah-rah America" bullshit has got to stop. Dale is right for managing to maintain his moral integrity in the face of the withering criticism that inevitably befalls those who coninue to think for themselves, party line be damned.
Fuck you, Michelle Malkin. |
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Written By:
N. Rogers
URL:
http://genericheretic.blogs.com/generic_heretic/
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THE CARTOON SHOULD HAVE SHOWN A JOURNALIST BEING DRAGGED AWAY, NOT A ALQUEDA SUSPECT. |
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Written By:
ROB42DAY
URL:
http://
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Of course, as far as I can determine our soldiers are being held to a higher ethical standard then most any of us would normaly face.
They are second guessed on the front line.
They are second guessed while guarding prisoners.
They are second guessed in the interogation room.
The media willingly pre-judges them based on their own anti-military bias.
Investigate and hold those with the intent to cause harm accountable. That is, cause harm to someone who is not an evident threat, or who is under protective custody.
Just because someone died while under our protection, or under our interrogation, doesn’t mean it’s murder. Stressing someone and them dying of a heart attack, due to a condition that wasn’t known, isn’t murder. It may suggest that procedures need to be changed, but the intent was not to murder the person. |
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Written By:
Keith, Indy
URL:
http://
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THE CARTOON SHOULD HAVE SHOWN A JOURNALIST BEING DRAGGED AWAY, NOT A ALQUEDA SUSPECT. Or a taxi driver? Just because someone died while under our protection, or under our interrogation, doesn’t mean it’s murder. It’s hard to argue that some of the deaths in our custody were purely accidental. At Abu Ghraib, and in the recently reported incident, there was significant torture. At any rate, it’s the business of interrogators to stop short of harm. They may not intend to cause death, but if you string a fellow up by his wrists, or beat him, you don’t get to feign surprise when death is a result.Yes, it is happening and yes it is a travesty (moreso that those on top aren’t feeling the heat more), but to make the troops seem flippant about it smears them. It’s not suggesting that "all troops" are flippant about it. Just that there are troops that are doing this sort of thing, and the military seems insufficiently interested in putting a stop to it. It’s been going on for years, and we’re just now getting an occassional 2-3 year prison sentence?
That’s one hell of a lot more of a black mark on our reputation than an insufficiently-sourced Newsweek allegation.
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Written By:
Jon Henke
URL:
http://www.QandO.net
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It’s hard to argue that some of the deaths in our custody were purely accidental True.
Yet we disagree...the cartoon portrays that they ALL died that way... and that would be harder yet to argue, if facts are used. Of course, the cartoon doesn’t sufer such restrictions. |
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Written By:
Bithead
URL:
http://bitheads.blogspot.com
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I need to reword something because I fell into a trap I quite often berate others on. When I wroteYes, it is happening and yes it is a travesty (moreso that those on top aren’t feeling the heat more), but to make the troops seem flippant about it smears them. What should have been written isYes, it is happening and yes it is a travesty (moreso that those on top aren’t feeling the heat more). Making the troops seem flippant about it smears them. There is no but. Those who are responsible deserve full punishment. We should not insinuate that all troops tortue people to death. There was no need to qualify my statement then hide behind a ’but’.
Sorry. |
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Written By:
Sharp as a Marble
URL:
http://sharpmarbles.stufftoread.com
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"False but plausible"—the new "fake but accurate". Congratulations, Dale: you’ve just become as unglued and ridiculous as Andrew Sullivan.
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Written By:
Sinbad
URL:
http://
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And finally, there is no evidence that torture actually provides any kind of useful intelligence. In fact, there is quite a bit of evidence against it.
People keep saying this. And yet that’s all they do. Nobody ever bothers citing the mountains of evidence that surely must exist in support of this proposition.
I wonder why?
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Written By:
Sinbad
URL:
http://
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That’s what you get for not observing the Geneva Convention. I think we ought to enforce it to the full with illegal combatants just as we did in WWII.
One tires of the continued slander of the military by those who cannot be bothered to serve. Having a Maher moment? |
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Written By:
TJ Jackson
URL:
http://
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One tires of the continued slander of the military by those who cannot be bothered to serve. Having a Maher moment?
Yeah, well, I spent 10 years on active duty as a career NCO. |
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Written By:
Dale Franks
URL:
http://www.qando.net
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Just to put this discussion in perspective:
Silent Screams
Severed Heads
Consider the enemy that intends to rule America. That preaches sermons about how soon we will be an Islamic nation, subject to Sharia law.
Have a nice day. |
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Written By:
American Daughter
URL:
http://americandaughter.com
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The reason the calumny being heaped on this cartoon and it’s posters is well deserved, is what it presupposes.
It assumes that the military knows prisoners are being killed and that this is in fact a deliberate policy.
There is no evidence of this. What there is evidence of is that if the military learns a prisoner’s death was a homicide, and there is evidence that a prisoner’s death can be proven to result from abuse of the prisoner which was outside the bounds of policy, the the soldiers involved will be tried and sometimes convicted.
There is nothing pratical or pragmatic—nothing that will be effective in reducing or restraining untoward governemnt—in making like Ted Rall.
Yours, TDP,
molon labe
montani semper liberi
para fides paternae patria |
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Written By:
Tom Perkins
URL:
http://
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http://www.toonurl.com |
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Written By:
fee
URL:
http://www.toonurl.com
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cartoon
hotel
wallpaper
blog
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Written By:
aaa
URL:
http://www.look4hotel.org
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