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Another reason the Libertarian Party is going nowhere
Posted by: McQ on Saturday, June 11, 2005

If you think the various immigration reform programs—which are really amnesty proposals for illegal aliens—put forth by the Democrats and Republicans are daft, consider the proposal these members of the Libertarian Party:
The audience found some areas of agreement with two San Diego area Libertarians who spoke Thursday night at the meeting of the People for the USA. However, the speakers' main point — the need for more open borders — was not well received by the majority in attendance at the Yuma library.

Michael Benoit and Michael Metti, who have both run for the United States Congress as Libertarians in California, said opening the borders would help the economy, allow immigrants to return to Mexico and dry up the alien smuggling industry.

"You create an industry for coyotes," Benoit said of the current situation. "And once they've spent $1,500 or $2,000 to get here, they're not so anxious about going home."
First of all, the purpose of securing the borders isn't to "dry up" the alien smuggling industry". It's to keep people who are trying to enter illegally out of the US.

Now we all know that most likely the majority of those trying to enter the country are simply looking for work. But it cannot be denied that there is going to be a certain element entering for less benign reasons. These include criminal gangs of various types. It should be noted that the two LP candidates completely ignore that aspect of the problem.

With this doctrine, they also ignore the rights of citizens of the country to be secure in their lives and property.
Metti said America is a country of immigrants that should be accepting of more immigration. He said more workers can take low-level jobs, pushing everyone else up economically. He said this would also decrease the number of corporations exporting jobs overseas.

"I respect people who will do anything to live free," Metti said of immigrants. "We as Americans should respect that. We've fought a war and killed thousands of people in what we say is a fight for freedom."

Those in the audience staunchly against open borders said that corporations that hire illegal aliens should be punished by the government. Metti disagreed. "You want to punish people for giving people jobs?" he said.
The majority of those entering here aren't trying to "live free", they're looking for higher paying work and intend to return to their native land. They keep wages down, which is one of the reasons they're sought out by certain types of businesses. They, as well as citizens of the US, would actually benefit more if they were "visible" in this system.

To characterize most of these people as "immigrants" is disingenuous on its face. They're not. They're foreign nationals who are taking advantage of lax border controls in order to work illegally here. Others are foreign nationals who are seeking to enter the country illegally to pursue criminal enterprises or do harm here. Those who are actually trying to "live free" do so through legal immigration.

It is they who are getting the short end of the stick.
Agustin Tumbaga, former mayor of Somerton, said there was a lot of misinformation about why people wanted to cross the border. He urged those in attendance to look deeper into Mexico and the imbalances between the American and Mexican economies.

"You should get up at 4 a.m. to see the thousands of people lined up to come across legally to work," he said. "And the thousands who come back every night."
Note that these people do this legally and have absolutely no apparent desire to "live free" here. They're workers who return to their native country every day. I certainly have no problem with foreign nationals who would like to work here. And there's obviously a process, as noted above, in place which allows that. There's no question that the best course is to secure our borders and have a program which allows such guest workers. But to pretend, in a time of terrorism, that "open borders" is a rational argument, is, well, silly at best.
Some in the audience pointed to homeland security as a reason for tight border security. Benoit said the United States had trouble with both legal and illegal immigrants when it came to terrorism, citing the fact that the Sept. 11 hijackers had visas.

"The world is less safe, but we need to address the causes, like going around the world and meddling in other countries," he said.
The fact that the hijackers had visas doesn't mean the borders should now be opened because the visa process didn't work then and in that particular case. Instead it means the visa process, among many other controls, needs to be tightened up.

Of course addressing the causes is important as well, but concurrent with doing so is addressing the security needs of the US. Open borders doesn't at all do so and sticking to that absurd plank in the LP platform is self-defeating. In a time of war and terror its counter-intuitive. Its one of the reasons I'm now a neolibertarian and make no apology for it.

"Open borders" while appealing philosophically isn't at all practical or smart for the US at this time. It's a utopian goal which is, at the moment, an impractical risk. It remains a doctrine to which the LP doggedly clings in the face of mounting evidence that such doctrine, in this day and time, brings with it unacceptable risk for little reward. Maybe some day far in the future this might work ... but not today.

In the end, Metti contradicts himself as pretains to the "open borders" when discussing private citizen watch groups and government responsibility:
Some members of the Yuma Patriots, a border watch group, were in attendance at the meeting. Metti said he did not believe that volunteer efforts to police the border, like the Patriots and the Minuteman Project, were the right way to solve the problem.

"It's an admirable attempt," he said. "But I don't know the longevity of it because it's not their job. It's our government's job."
Well, it's not the "government's job" if, as the LP claims, the right thing to do is to throw open the borders, is it Mr. Metti?

UPDATE: Thomas at "Knappster: Blog Naked for Jesus" (hey, it's his blog and he can call it whatever he wants) offers a rebuttal of my post above:
McQ continues: "Now we all know that most likely the majority of those trying to enter the country are simply looking for work. But it cannot be denied that there is going to be a certain element entering for less benign reasons. These include criminal gangs of various types. It should be noted that the two LP candidates completely ignore that aspect of the problem."

Well, no, they don't—or at least their analysis covers it whether they intended it to or not.
Well yes, they do. They have to ignore it to push the "open borders" meme. If they don't ignore it, it makes their claim that open borders is all good seem foolish.
Millions of people try to get across the border each year to seek work and make an honest living. The fact that they are turned away at legal points of entry is what creates and sustains the "coyote industry." And that industry, in turn, is almost certainly where the bad guys—the criminal gangs, Islamist terrorists, etc.—turn for help in infiltrating the US.
All quite true, but it makes no sense to believe that any of that will change with "legal points of entry". We have them, and people still try to enter illegally. Instead of taking the time and effort to enter legally, they choose the alternative. That's because, for them, the alternative is easier and less of a hassle and few consequences if caught. Human nature 101.

So what's the problem? Well it isn't just one of illegal immigration. Most of these people are not coming as illegal immigrants as I point out. Most are entering the country illegally to work, not make the US a home. They have no intention of immigrating.

How do we dry up the smugglers game? Control the border and force those who want to enter to use the legal entry points. In other words, make it more of a hassle to try illegal entry than legal entry.
With respect to national security and defense issues, "opening the borders"—at least to the extent of allowing innocent work-seekers to cross them at legal points of entry without a hassle—is the means of reducing the ability of the bad guys to get in. Really.
This, of course is precisely the point I made in my post when I said:
Note that these people do this legally and have absolutely no apparent desire to "live free" here. They're workers who return to their native country every day. I certainly have no problem with foreign nationals who would like to work here. And there's obviously a process, as noted above, in place which allows that. There's no question that the best course is to secure our borders and have a program which allows such guest workers.
So, I'm not sure what Thomas is disputing with his argument. Obviously this should be the way we do business, as I stated, but to pretend that this is a part of the "open borders" plank of the LP is simply a misrepresentation. The LP means open them to anyone without scrutiny.
The Libertarian Party has long recognized the importance of allowing free and open immigration, understanding that this leads to a growing and more prosperous America. We condemn the xenophobic immigrant bashing that would build a wall around the United States. At the same time, we recognize that the right to enter the United States does not include the right to economic entitlements such as welfare. The freedom to immigrate is a freedom of opportunity, not a guarantee of a handout.
Of course you have to wonder how the LP would determine who is or isn't included in entitlements with "free and open" immigration. National ID? But be that as it may, Thomas is giving the LP "open borders" issue more practicality than it deserves.

David Bergland, in his book "Libertarianism in One Lesson" states the Libertarian position on borders thusly in answer to the question, "Should it be legal for people to travel or move into and out of the US without limitation?":
"Yes. All individuals have the same rights, regardless of where they were born or where they live now. Anyone willing to take responsibility for himself or herself has the right to travel and seek opportunity, including crossing international borders ..."
Fairly easy to discern what is meant by the LP when they say "open borders".

But back to the point. The legal entry points allow us to (hopefully) filter out those trying to come here for reasons other than work. That fulfills the security requirement and allows those who want to work legally access to the country. But in order for that process to work, we must control our borders.
Bottom line: Economic protectionists, whose primary objection to Mexican workers entering the US is that they lower wages by increasing the labor supply, are part of the problem, not part of the solution. The policies they advocate make it cheaper and easier for criminals and terrorists to get into the United States.
I'm not sure who this is addressed too, but I welcome anyone from other countries who want to work here, provided they do so LEGALLY. It has zip to do with economic protectionism in my book, and everything about security and the rule of law.

Thomas then touts Michael Badnarik of the LP, and its presidential candiate in '04, as someone who has the right answer about immigration and the borders.

I agree. But I agree because Badnarik broke from the doctrinare LP position on the issue - the one put forward by the two LP candidates cited in the article and their "open border" meme - and said this:
This does not mean, however, that the national defense must be sacrificed to some naive conception of "open borders." The right to enter the United States is not the same as the right to enter the United States in contravention of its legitimate interest in securing itself against those who would do it harm.
And that, btw, is precisely what I've been saying for quite some time.

UPDATE:
Victor Davis Hanson's take on the subject.
 
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Comments
While I share you distaste for their position, let’s be honest; They’re simply taking libertarianism, in it’s pure form, anarchy, to it’s logoical conclusion. If there’s no more government, there’s no more borders or any way to enforce them, right?
 
Written By: Anonymous
URL: http://www.qando.net
I’m self-described as a conservative with libertarian leanings. Every so often I will get fired up over a very good CATO report and explore the local libertarian party meetings. I’m usually confronted with activists wanting to "free hemp" or discontinue curfews. While perhaps government has no business there it is hardly on my horizon as one of the burning priorities of the day. In the days of Virginai Postrel at Reason I used to be similarly inspired. But now that it’s been taken over by the children extolling the virtues Eminem, the Beatles, or the Burning Man I’ve let that subscription expire. So now I’m warily watching The New Libertarian with hope for the best.
 
Written By: tom scott
URL: http://
McQ,

Thanks for your reply.

I think where we’re talking past each other is the issue of what immigration should be legal.

You seem to be intimating that the bulk of those who cross the border at 3 a.m. in the middle of nowhere are doing so because they don’t feel like standing in line or something. Um, no. They are crossing the border at 3 a.m. because US law limits the number of people who are allowed in, even if those people are coming here to do peaceful, productive work, visit relatives or whatever.

If any non-criminal, non-terrorist can, at any time, walk up to an official point of entry, show his passport or whatever, and enter the US to do whatever peaceful and legal thing it is he wants to do, then the vast, overwhelming majority of people wanting to enter the US will do precisely that instead of hiring coyotes to guide them across the desert in the middle of the night.

The economic protectionists want to exclude the vast bulk of those attempting to enter the US not because they constitute a criminal or military threat to the US, but because they’re willing to clean toilets, de-bone chickens and pick lettuce cheaper than the natives. So, they lean on government to create quota systems that turn persons who are not of a criminal bent away—then when those persons resort to a criminal mode of entry that in turn compromises the security of the United States by providing cover for Osama’s boys and assorted other undesirable elements, the protectionists blame everyone but themselves.

I’m not particularly interested in defending the LP or its immigration/borders plank, no longer being an LP member myself. But let’s be realistic here: The problem is not that it’s too easy for peaceful people to get into the US. The problem is that it’s too hard for peaceful people to get into the US.

Regards,
Tom Knapp
 
Written By: Thomas L. Knapp
URL: http://knappster.blogspot.com
If any non-criminal, non-terrorist can, at any time, walk up to an official point of entry, show his passport or whatever, and enter the US to do whatever peaceful and legal thing it is he wants to do, then the vast, overwhelming majority of people wanting to enter the US will do precisely that instead of hiring coyotes to guide them across the desert in the middle of the night.

Again, the coyotes are a red herring. They’re not the problem. And I believe I’ve agreed, or in fact stated in the body of the post, that I have absolutely no problem with workers coming in legally, in whatever number.

I’d also point out that I said that the reason they come in illegally is its easier. My solution is to open up the legal avenues as much as possible while still maintaining security while making the illegal avenue harder to do (and with worse consequences) than the legal avenue. That serves the need for security as well as a reasonable avenue for workers to enter legally.
The problem is not that it’s too easy for peaceful people to get into the US. The problem is that it’s too hard for peaceful people to get into the US.
There’s a reason for that Thomas ... they’re called terrorists. If it were nothing but peaceful people out there, I wouldn’t be saying a word.
 
Written By: McQ
URL: http://www.qando.net/
McQ,

You wrote:

"I’d also point out that I said that the reason they come in illegally is its easier. My solution is to open up the legal avenues as much as possible while still maintaining security while making the illegal avenue harder to do (and with worse consequences) than the legal avenue. That serves the need for security as well as a reasonable avenue for workers to enter legally."

OK, so since we’re saying the same thing, why the hell the argument? I’m just pointing out that not doing what you recommend is what makes the border harder to secure—against terrorists or anyone else—and that on the particular point on which I rebutted your indictment of the LP types, you were incorrect (and in fact arguing against your own position).

Regards,
Tom Knapp
 
Written By: Thomas L. Knapp
URL: http://knappster.blogspot.com
OK, so since we’re saying the same thing, why the hell the argument?

I didn’t realize we were arguing.

I’m just pointing out that not doing what you recommend is what makes the border harder to secure—against terrorists or anyone else—and that on the particular point on which I rebutted your indictment of the LP types, you were incorrect (and in fact arguing against your own position).

We agree on the former, we disagree on the latter.

The LP types are talking about an "open border", not what you and I are talking about. As even Badnarik points out, "open borders" is a "naive conception" which really has no merit.
 
Written By: McQ
URL: http://www.qando.net/
I can’t speak for McQ, though I suspect he might agree.

My own position is that we ought to dramatically upgrade the number of people that are legally allowed to enter the US. Once they’re being funneled through the appropriate areas, and properly accounted for, we ought to eliminate many of the problems we currently have with illegal immigration.

However, I’m not sure that such a measure will appreciably eliminate the danger from terrorists. If we can’t guard a few thousand miles of border now, then I’m not sure that we’d be able to do it then, either.
 
Written By: Jon Henke
URL: http://www.QandO.net
Again, the coyotes are a red herring. They’re not the problem.

No - coyotes are the problem.

The vast majority of people entering the USA do so for work. These people will be willing to provide full histories, verifiable references and attend any integration programs in America. All the things governments require of new immigrants.

Terrorists will do none of these things and therefore need to cross the border illegally, via coyotes. As it stands the system provides an impenetrable cover for all terrorists entering the country, because they can swim in a river of harmless immigrants.
 
Written By: Unaha-closp
URL: http://
No coyotes aren’t the problem. They’re a symptom of the problem.

We’ve covered the problem.

And terrorists, or terror suspects HAVE used coyotes to enter already.
 
Written By: McQ
URL: http://www.qando.net/
However, I’m not sure that such a measure will appreciably eliminate the danger from terrorists. If we can’t guard a few thousand miles of border now, then I’m not sure that we’d be able to do it then, either.

I agree with your other points, Jon. However here, I’d point out we have yet to demonstrate we can’t guard the border yet. We haven’t even given it a good try to this point. I would say though, politically we don’t have the will to do so.
 
Written By: McQ
URL: http://www.qando.net/
I’d point out we have yet to demonstrate we can’t guard the border yet. We haven’t even given it a good try to this point. I would say though, politically we don’t have the will to do so.
It’s about time "we" started. Maybe the armed forces could actually help out with this task.
 
Written By: IO ERROR
URL: http://www.ioerror.us/
I think not. This seems to me a mis-use of the military, whose biggest job is to kill people and break things. Border security seems a job better suited to a civillian force... be it a para-police group such as the INS or what have you. I grant that they’ve not done a good job on it yet, but suspect that to be an issue of direction from washington.

And what of the states in question? Given they are the most affected... CA, AZ,MN, TX, etc...Why would they not have border patrols going?
 
Written By: Bithead
URL: http://bitheads.blogspot.com
Why is an open border between New York and New Jersey appropriate, but not with Canada or Mexico? Are you afraid of more customers?

Most of the problems at the Mexico border would go away if the drug war ended. Ending foreign interventions would also virtually eliminate the need for border security.

Isn’t it tragic that 50,000 Americans died fighting communism, but those fleeing Cuba in converted autos are attacked and repatriated?
 
Written By: James Babb
URL: http://JamesBabb.com
Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
I lift my lamp beside the golden door.
 
Written By: James Babb
URL: http://JamesBabb.com
Baloney, James.
You’ve been inhaling too much product, methinks, if you seriously consider that the current issues with the terrorism terrorism problem go away when the drug war does.
 
Written By: Bithead
URL: http://bitheads.blogspot.com

 
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