Liveblogging the debate Posted by: Dale Franks
on Wednesday, October 13, 2004
Q: Will we ever be safe again?
Kerry: Yes, we will. I'll work like Reagan did to make us safe.
That, presumably, would be the same Reagan whose term in office Kerry referred to as a time of darkness.
Bush: We can be secure by putting pressure on the terrorists, and by spreading democracy. They just had elections in Afghanistan.
Kerry: Outsourcing the Tora Bora operation to the Northern Alliance.
Because, as we all know, Scotty could've beamed the 10th Mountain Division there overnight. Fantasy.
Q: what about Flu shots?
Bush: It's the Brits' fault. So, if you're young and healthy, don't get a shot this year.
Why is the President of the United States answering questions about freakin' flu shots? Isn't that a distraction from the real enemy that attacked us on 9/11?
Kerry: Mr. Bush has let health care collapse. Surprised we aren't dying by the thousands of the Pox. Or the Croup. Or whatever. I'll give you the same plan that I have as a senator.
Bush: That health plan costs the government $7,000 per family every year. If we all have it, it'll be 5 trillion dollars. That's not gonna happen.
Q: Sen. Kerry, how are you gonna pay for all this stuff you're proposing?
Kerry: We'll pay as we go. Oh, and we'll tax the rich. Those bastards.
Bush: Kerry is a tax and spend liberal. He votes for higher taxes, votes against tax cuts. Proposing $2.2 trillion in new spending, but his tax the rich proposal will only raise $800 billion max. Do the math.
Q: What about that outsourcing that's stealing good American Jobs? Heathen Foreigners!
Bush: Blah, blah, blah. More education. Blah, blah.
How about mentioning that this whole outsourcing deal is a load of crap? Outsourcing from other countries creates vastly more jobs in America that outsourcing to the heathen foreigners takes.
Kerry: Bush spends too much money. Medical costs are higher. Wages are going down. New jobs are all burger-flipping, while foreigners are eating filet mignons and drinking champagne from the silver slippers of their hot blondes. And it's all W's fault.
Q: The economy is privately run. How can all this jobs deal be W's fault?
Kerry: Well, he could do more, the heartless SOB. I'll keep American jobs here so the bloody wogs can go back to subsistence farming, where they belong.
Bush: Reduced taxes and reducing the lowest tax brackets puts more money in people's pockets. Kerry always votes for tax increases.
Kerry: I vote for tax cuts all the time. It was me and Reagan, baby.
Q: Do you believe homosexuality is a choice?
Bush: I dunno. But we have a country where people can do whatever the hell they want. (Unless it's you know, icky, like drug use or prostitution.) But, whatever, this is decision we need to make democratically, not through the courts.
Kerry: We're all God's Children. Besides, Dick Cheney's daughter is a lesbo. Anyway, it's not a choice. Oh, and we need partnership rights. And the states should decide.
In the courts presumably.
Q: Sen. Kerry, Catholic bishops say it's a sin to vote for you, abortion-boy. What do you think?
Kerry: I respect their sentiments (backstabbing SOBs). But abortion is a choice, so I can't really stop people from making the choice. That would be wrong.
Bush: Culture of life. I understand there are differences, but I think we can put law in place to reduce abortions. Like, you know, partial birth abortions, where the baby is halfway born then killed by poking it in the head. Which, Mr. Kerry voted for, by the way.
Q: Who's responsible for rising health costs?
Bush: We have screwed up system where the people who consume health care are not the people who pay for it. Can you say Market forces? Not if you work in medicine, you can't. Oh, and lawyers. Shakespeare was right about them.
Kerry: Well, health care costs are on the rise because W is a weasel. They are preventing medicine from getting cheaper. In fact, George W. Bush will only be truly happy when you die hacking your lungs out in the gutter. All he cares about is making his friends in the drug companies rich.
And, of course, Kerry will heal the halt and the lame with them stem cells. Can't forget that. Oh, and raising the dead. Vitally important that the dead be raised.
Bush: well, you'd think that being in the senate for 20 years would give Sen. Kerry a pro-health care record. But he doesn't.
Kerry: Not true. I wrote the Omnibus Save the Children American Glory Health Reform Act of...whatever.
Q: How will we pay for your health plan, Sen. Kerry?
Kerry: Well, we'll provide lots of free stuff, and get people covered. But, we'll save by keeping people healthier. Essentially, we'll lose on every transaction, but we'll make it up in volume!
Bush: Let me call the press corps a bunch of losers…no, never mind. [WTF was that about?] Government run health is a disaster. It'll lead to rationing and poor health care. If government does such a good job, how come you don't celebrate every time you get the privilege of going to the DMV?
Q: Mr. President, what's the deal with Social Security reform, and how are we gonna pay for it?
Bush: If we don't reform SS, we're screwed. It might cost a lot, but the cost of doing nothing will have us all eating beans for the rest of our life. Only rich people like John Kerry will be able to eat meat.
Kerry: We gotta keep the current system. If we try to change it, the whole Ponzi scheme will collapse. No, reform wouldn't be prudent. Besides, I have a record for fiscal responsibility.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!
No, seriously, folks…
Q: Sen. Kerry, Alan Greenspan says leaving the system as it is will be a disaster. Are you gonna leave it alone?
Kerry: No, I'll tax the rich and have them pay for it. Alan Greenspan has done a good job with monetary policy, but he's a moron when it comes to fiscal policy. My plan will work, and if Alan Greenspan disagrees, well, he's just a moron. My plan will work!
Bush: What plan? I haven't heard a plan. I've heard, "Let's do nothing but raise taxes." That's not gonna work. If you think the economy already sucks, raising taxes ain't gonna fix it.
Q: What about illegal immigration?
Bush: Very serious problem. Gotta treat illegals nice. Gotta give 'em ID cards. Gotta let 'em go back and forth. That'll take pressure off the border patrol. But it's not an amnesty. Amnesty is what Sen. Kerry wants. But not me, nosiree.
Kerry: Under president Bush taxes on the middle class have risen, while his rich fat-cat friends pay less in taxes. Anyway, we gotta crack down on illegal immigration. Terrorists are coming across. W just isn't getting g it done.
And pay no attention to the fact that my party is as much or more complicit in the illegal immigration problem as the Republicans are.
Q: Should we raise the minimum wage?
Kerry: Absolutely, and I will do it. Please pay no attention to those economists who say that raising the minimum wage increases unemployment among poor and minority workers. Oh, and women only make 71% of what men do for the same work. And it's not because women tend to leave the workforce for several years while they raise children. It's the patriarchy, man, keeping our sisters down!
Bush: You know, when you think about it, the No Child Left Behind Act is a jobs act. Better education means better paying jobs.
Q: Will you overturn Roe v. Wade?
Bush: I won't have any litmus tests. I want good conservative judges.
Kerry: Abortion is a right, and I will protect it. Oh, and President Bush is failing to fund NCLB, and as a result, black Americans are failing in school, and are going to jail.
Bush: Well, we've increased funding for the Ed Dept by 49%, yet Kerry says I'm underfunding after school programs.
Kerry: You know, the amount of money is unimportant, because it's not enough money anyway, mainly because you gave a tax cut to your rich friends.
Q: What about the military's stop-losses and the "backdoor draft"?
Kerry: Our boys are overextended because of Bush's failures. I will create two new active-duty divisions. But, I will also work with our allies to share the burden of thel worjd wev,Wv Lw;DV/JBL'R
Oh, sorry, I went face down in the keyboard from boredom at the whole line of "alliances" BS.
Bush: The best way to relieve the pressure on our troops is to succeed in Iraq, and let the Iraqis take up the fight. Our boys are proud to serve, and realize they are doing God's work. Hey, I'll work with allies, but, on the other hand, if the foreigners don't like what I do to protect our people, well, then...f*ck 'em. And Kerry and his global test crap, too.
Kerry: I will never turn over our security to another country. That's not what the global test means.
Bush: But, oddly, with a huge foreign coalition and UN authorization, Sen. Kerry still voted against the Gulf War in '91. That's a pretty tough global test to pass, evidently, despite his denials.
Q: What about those guns? They're nasty and dangerous, and everyone has 'em!
Bush: So, put, criminals in jail if they use guns.
Kerry: We need the assault weapons ban. I support the 2nd Amendment fully. As long as, you know, people don't have guns that will allow them to defend themselves from government tyranny. I mean, there's no need to be a radical about it.
Q: It's 2004. Affirmative action? Really?
Kerry: We still need Affirmative Action! But not quotas! No quotas! But, maybe. Like, you know, some guidelines. Mandatory ones, to be sure, but not quotas. Besides, W's never met with the NAACP.
Bush: Opportunity, education, blah, blah, blah.
No mention of the NAACP. My answer would've been, well, maybe I would've met with them if they didn't spend their time calling me a racist monster. As it is, what would the freakin' point be? The NAACP is a wholly-owned subsidiary of the Democratic Party. Let's not pretend that we could come to some meeting of the minds after a few meetings, despite Mr. Kerry's apparent childlike faith in summits.
Q: How important is religion?
Bush: Very important.
Of course it is. Just a silly question. Half of the reason why Bush is hated on the Left is because he's too religious.
Kerry: Very, very, important, but, you know, not so much that it'll have any effect on my public policy stances.
Q: Will you be a uniter, or a divider?
Kerry: I'm a lover baby, and will bring us all together. Unlike W, who has been the most divisive president in modern history. I, on the other hand, always find the common ground. And I've worked with john McCain, who's a Republican.
That seeking after the common ground is undoubtedly why the National Journal rates Mr. Kerry as the most liberal senator, 'cause he such a, you know, mainstream guy.
Bush: I wanted to be uniter, like I was in Texas. But, you know, the Democrats are a bunch of backstabbing weasels. Oh, and John McCain is one of my reelection chairmen.
Q: What have you learned from the strong women you are married to?
Bush: The usual reply. I really love my wife.
Kerry: Unfortunately, under the Bush administration, strong women have been beaten down...
No, sorry, that's not what he said, but I couldn't resist.
Kerry: I think all of on this stage have married up. Some have said I've married up more than most. The usual stuff.
Kerry Close: I'm a uniter. I'll work with everybody. I offer tested, strong leadership. Oh, and I was in Vietnam. You all got that, didn't you?
Although, what it was he was leading in the senate is a mystery to me.
Bush Close: Man, the last three years have been tough. But, we're getting the job done.
Overall, a good debate, with good give and take. Bob Scheiffer's questions were sometimes a little whiny and concentrated on trivia. But, of course, compared to the global struggle against terror, a lot of things about domestic policy seem less important to me right now.
It was fun to blog, too.
UPDATE (JON): Welcome to the (Neolibertarian) QandO blog. Feel free to take a look around, bookmark, blogroll--and let me know, so I can return the favor.
Well, geez. Could the questions Schieffer asked in the last 2/3rd's of the debate have been any more touchy-feely and content free? It looked to me like a die-hard attempt to toss Kerry softballs so he could make points with as many voting blocks as possible.
I am a woman, but I can't understand why women seem to have reacted so favorably to Bush's performance. He seemed weak to me, in large part because Bush's strength is in the details and Kerry's is in rhetoric.
Oh well, I'm voting for Bush regardless, but I think most people would feel Kerry won this one.
MkUltra, I suspect you would make the same comment if Bush suddenly started channeling Winston Churchill's speaking ability and Kerry came to the debate drunk. If you feel Bush did so poorly, please site examples so we can have an actual discussion around the points. Contradiction does not equal debate.
Bush lost. Kerry won. Kerry looked and sounded like an adult. Bush appeared child-like. And what was with all that blinking?
While I don't expect intellectual honesty from MK, there's no way Kerry won that debate. Bush had much the better of him all night. Kerry kept alluding to his plans, but never really fleshed them out. For all the softballs Kerry was fed, he never knocked a single one out of the infield.
Couldn't watch the debates - chasing my 14 month old around the house - but your summary was absolutely perfect. I laughed, I cried, I learned, and the 90 minutes I would have wasted were better spent with my daughter.
She and I both thank you!
Oh, and mkultra/Paul: the adage about keeping your mouth shut when you have nothing to say? Still true.
Specifically, I love the outsourcing aside and the gender wage gap aside.
Wouldn't it be nice to have a third party in there to call them out on this. Of course neither of them would talk about the real issues of outsourcing the the gender wage gap becuase it would be seen as insensitive, but if a third party in there with nothing to lose could come in and talk some sense...maybe we would see a turnaround to some logical reasoning in this country.
mkultra - you're just one of those typical anti-war, anti-everything-bush people with not a clue as to why you hate the guy except that its the 'in thing' to do in your herd of sheep to smear the man who runs our country. Whether you like him or not, he's doing a job most of us would never have the stomach and will to do...but you wouldn't know that. You're too busy listening to Michael Moore and Al Franken as opposed to thinking for yourself.
...Bush suddenly started channeling Winston Churchill's speaking ability...
Every listen to a recording of Churchill? He has a speech impediment. He lisps and sounds like he is a bit tipsy. A certain Austrian ex-corporal who was a contemporary of Winston spoke clearly. The medium is not always the message. Sometimes content really does matter more than style. Kerry is all style, no substance. With him it would be like going to a really expensive French restaurant with a friend who suggest you just split the bill 50-50. You then order a small salad because you are low on cash and your friend orders steak tartare, lobster and 1879 champagne
Great blogging! Personally, I detest political debates. They are misinformative, divisive to the nation, and perpetuate negative campaigns and do little for the political process in the US. The only purpose they serve in this day and age are to put a face on TV. Why not let each candidate expound on what they will do for the country when and if they get in office and leave it at that for voters decisions. Outlaw the "negative" debates. dc:The Texas Activist.
Every listen to a recording of Churchill? He has a speech impediment. He lisps and sounds like he is a bit tipsy.
This reminds me of one of the funniest scenes in American film, from The Producers: __________
LIEBKIND: I vas vit him a great deal, you know.
BIALYSTOCK: With whom?
LIEBKIND: (astonished by the question) Vit the Fuhrer, of course. He liked me. Out of all the household staff at Berchtesgarten, I vas his favorite. I vas the only one allowed into his chambers at bedtime.
BIALYSTOCK: No kidding?
LIEBKIND: Oh, sure. I used to take him his hot milk and his opium. Achhh, those were the days. Vat good times ve had. Dinner parties vit lovely ladies and gentlemen, singing und dancing. You know, not many people knew about it, but the Fuhrer vas a terrific dancer.
BIALYSTOCK: Really, I never dreamed ...
LIEBKIND: (flies into an indignant rage) That's because you were taken in by that verdampter Allied propaganda. Such filthy lies. But nobody said a bad vord about Winston Churchill, did they? Oh no, Vin Vit Vinnie! (he gestures V for victory) Churchill, vit his cigars and his brandy and his rotten paintings. Couldn't even say Nazi. He would say Narzis, Narzis. Ve vere not Narzies, ve vere Nazis. Churchill! With his cigars, with his brandy, and his rotten painting! Rotten! Hitler, there was a painter. He could paint an entire apartment in one afternoon--two coats! But let me tell this, and you're getting it straight from the horse, Hitler vas better looking than Churchill, he vas a better dresser than Churchill, had more hair, told funnier jokes, and could dance the pants off Churchill! __________
I don't even remember how many times I've seen this movie and it still cracks me up! Most of Brooks' movies are pointless and irritating, but The Producers, Blazing Saddles, and Young Frankenstein...those are classics.
Excellent summary. Much better than anything else I came up with. Focusing solely on the substance of the debate (I know, what was I thinking?), I think Bush won, but that's because his ideas are closer to what I believe will work.
"Oh, and raising the dead. Vitally important that the dead be raised."
Actually, not always, um . . . vital. I believe it was Huey Long's brother Earl--one of Louisiana's more colorful governors--who said that when he died he wanted to be buried right in Louisiana, so he could remain active in politics.
The same media that supported the war in Iraq every step of the way. The same media that tried to divert substantive issues by attacking a war hero for the month of August. And the same media that said they must give the "other side" to truthful negative news which meant false positive news. The same media that used psychologic conditioning has finally changed.
They are now using reverse psychological conditioning. They are telling us we didn’t vote against Bush because of an unjust war, children living in poverty, big business stealing the soul of workers or losing healthcare —-It is simply because we are immoral. May this email find everyone out there in the world happy and well, Vinnie Vin http://www.vinnievin.com/
author of The Religion of Bush -Cross-dressing As A Patriotic Man of God