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Iran’s latest missile purchase
Posted by: McQ on Monday, December 19, 2005

We recently discussed Iran's purchase of the Russian TOR-M1 anti-missile system from Russia. According to the German press, that's not their only recent purchase of missiles:
Iran has bought 18 BM-25 missiles from North Korea which the Islamic Republic wants to transform to extend their range, the German press reported Dec. 16. ”Iran has bought 18 disassembled BM-25 missiles from North Korea with a range of 2,500 kilometers (1,553 miles),” Bild newspaper said, citing a report from the German secret services.

It added that Iran’s ultra conservative President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad wants to have the range of the missiles “extended to 3,500 kilometers”. The newspaper said that until now Iran only had Shehab-3 missiles with a range of 1,300 kilometers.

It further cited the secret service report as warning that “with a longer range, and the probability that (Tehran) would try to equip the missiles with nuclear warheads, there is the risk that Iran could strike at Israel and parts of central Europe.” It added that according to the German intelligence services, Iranian experts were already working on fitting the missiles with nuclear warheads.
Central Europe, eh? Already trying to equip the missiles with nuclear warheads? (you know, the one's they're not developing)

Think that will be enough to get the EU off dead center concerning the threat from Iranian nuclear arms and have them consider action (or at least supporting action if they're unwilling to do it themselves) of some sort instead of resorting to more harsh words?
 
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Previous Comments to this Post 

Comments
"Merkel Lied/Iranians Died!"
 
Written By: Joe
URL: http://
Iran is an Islamic democracy. The Clerics are the controlling branch of government but their is a significant liberal movement as well. The Clerics would love it if Israel, US or Europe attacked. Politics there are like politics here. When your country is attacked people rally around the leaders regardless of how bad they may be. War is job security for those in power. If the west attacks, Iran is no longer a democracy. Clerics rule.


Maybe that matter should matter to us, maybe it shouldn’t. What matters to Israel is that if Iran is attacked they will launch their current mobile missles at Israel. Israels predictiable tit for tat policy would require a counter attack. At that point we an Israel v Iran war. The Shites in Iraq will be on the side of Iran. The Saudis, and Egyptions might stay neutral if we are lucky. This is a stratigic nightmare for the US military.


Richard Clark really nailed it on the head. He said that our policy in Iraq was the best thing that could happen to Iran.


Wreckless use of force got us into this mess. It won’t get us out.

 
Written By: cindy
URL: http://
With Israel now making plans to militarily attack Iran with American-supplied weapons did you think that Russia, North Korea, Pakistan, and China would just sit by and watch the end of Gulf Oil flow?
Gee Book, your claim is a non-sequitur, isn’t it? How will the Israeli attack end the flow of Gulf Oil? Do you mean Israel will DESTROY Iran or that Iran will cease oil exports? If the former, please explain to me WHY Eretz-Israel is going to DESTROY Iran? Just general, Jew-nastiness or is this some sort of Neo-Con/Likudnik Plot? Of if the latter, Why is Iran going to restrict oil exports? To hamper their own economy? To drive US/European petro-dollars to Saudi Arabia or Iraq? The Oil shocks of ’74 and ’79 involved OPEC, not simply Iran. I’m just going to have to ask for a few more intermediate steps be applied to your theorem to flesh it out.
 
Written By: Joe
URL: http://
So Cindy, you’re saying that an Israeli CONVENTIONAL attack on Iran will lead to a NUCLEAR response? Kind of proves the point that Iran really ought NOT have nuclear weapons, doesn’t it?

Also, so you ARE admitting that Iran is seeking nuclear weapons and is even further along than the IAEA and others say? I just want clarification on that from you, so IF it turns out all the intell was off, we won’t be hearing about "Lies" and "Manipulation of Intelligence for political gain" from the likes of you.

Oh and you’re saying, as is Richard Clark, that the Mullahs in charge of Iran are PLEASED that a secular Iraq is emerging next door? Given the fact that their own populace is restive under their regime? That’s like saying that the USSR would have been pleased to have Poland that had multiparty elections and/or a free trade union movement right next door. You might have forgotten what happens to repressive, authoritarian regimes that fail to produce economically when they are exposed to free or even FREE-ISH regimes on their borders. No I don’t buy the MKUltra argument that the Shi’i in Iraq want to be governed like the Shi’i in IRAN, considering that each side sees how the other is doing.
 
Written By: Joe
URL: http://
Joe thinks that OPEC will also sit by and keep pumping oil when 1.3 Billion Muslims go nuts after a military attack by Israel upon Iran?
Did they go nuts after Israel attacked IRAQ in the 1980’s? And for that matter, WILL ALL those Muslims "go nuts?" This seems that Arab Street/Muslim Street that is going to rise up, all the time and smite us, and yet never does?
 
Written By: Joe
URL: http://
Oh and Book, what happens when we send those IAEA inspectors to Israel? What if the Israelis just say, "Yepper, got nukes... We’d say oh about 200-250 of’em? Yepper, that includes thermo-nuclear weapons." What would occur?

And Iran and North Korea, what would happen IF the IAEA went and these states said, "Shore ’nuff dude, we got’em."

Exactly WHAT does the IAEA do when its discovers you have nuclear weapons? What Al-Baradei writes a nasty lettre to your Mom? It goes in your PERMANENT RECORD? Oh, I know, the UN sends a stiffly worded lettre to you AND doesn’t invite all your staff to the End of the Year/Winter Solstice/Holiday Party!

Who cares if the IAEA finds weapons or if you admit to weapons? What happens depends on who you are, not anything to do with a fairly innocuous and toothless international agency.
 
Written By: Joe
URL: http://
Something tells me that this time next year, Iran will have positioned some of those missles in Mosul. Then those European bastards will regret not joining the coalition of the willing.
 
Written By: mkultra
URL: http://
I find all the comparisons between Iraq in 1981 and present day Iran pretty amusing. Joe seems to think Israel is immune to any effective retaliation from Iran, should they decide to attack Iranian nuclear facilities.

Besides the obvious direct military response (of which Iran is very capable of with its missiles), you can rest assured that Israel will see a level of unrest in the occupied territories not yet experienced. Add to that renewed and sustained Hezbollah attacks from Lebanon and the increase in casualty rates for US military in Iraq and you have a runaway train on your hands dragging the entire region to hell.

All this and I have not even addressed the disruptions to Persian Gulf shipping channels caused by IRGC missile boats and mines. The resulting shock to oil supplies worldwide would be devastating, given the already record high crude prices.

Joe, why don’t you have your testosterone level checked and take a cool shower. You can’t solve every problem in the world with a GUN. Let’s hope and pray for more sound judgment by our leaders.
 
Written By: Buzz
URL: http://
Joe,


You do like make assumptions. We all know that assumptions are the mother of all _ups.


I don’t know if Iran has Nukes. I believe that they want them. I believe that they want them more know that we have troops next door. I believe that they will attack Israel with what ever they have if the US, Europe, or Israel attacks them. They will also attack the shipping lanes. I believe that the mullahs want to be attacked so that the liberals are forced to rally around them or be accused of aiding the enemy by those nationalists who have trouble admitting that the countries leadership is really as horrible as the rest of the world thinks it is.


At the time GW invaded Iraq, I personally would have made Pakistan fork over their Nuclear scientist and make him tell us who he has provided technical assistance too. I also would have blockaded North Korea so that they couldn’t ship missles or nukes.


By standing up to us for the last few years the insurgents have already won. They have shown that the insurgents can stand in the field with us and make us bleed. Even if Mary Poppins is elected prime minister of Iraq and the Polyanna plan comes to be, the real terrorists can now go elsewhere and do it all again. We have provided them with valuble training. We have provided them with recruits. We have provlded them with a world that now believes that America is a threat.


 
Written By: cindy
URL: http://
The fundamental question should be, who the fuck is Israel or the US to tell Iran or any country
on this planet what to do, what weapons to have, or when and where, as is the situation now.

Who the fuck you self-righteous motherfuckers think you are? Iran is at the forefront of the few
proud nations that have said enough is enough.

The Americans and Israel must be leashed, like
vicious dogs that they are, to prevent them from achieving their goal of ruling the world, and
turning it into a police state.

I would like to extent this message on behalf of the entire population of this planet, to the Americans and Israel and everybody who supports them: FUCK YOU
 
Written By: sean
URL: http://
An unstable Gulf is good news for Russia, it exports crude and weapon systems - win / win.
 
Written By: Unaha-closp
URL: http://
Who the fuck you self-righteous motherfuckers think you are? Iran is at the forefront of the few
proud nations that have said enough is enough.

I would like to extent this message on behalf of the entire population of this planet, to the Americans and Israel and everybody who supports them: FUCK YOU
— sean

Wow, how do I respond to that without getting worked up because obviously your only goal with a post like that is to piss someone off.

I’ll try though because I like to educate the little simple-minded every folk now and then.

Lets see now,
The Iranian president:
-thinks Isreal should be wiped from the face of the earth.
-that the holocaust is a distant memory.
-and has even banned western music/movies recently because they promote a western influence.

What a nice man to have in power huh? I wouldn’t want someone like this to help make the important decisions governing my country—would you?

When the Iranian president nukes the country you live in and bans all forms of freedoms you have today (like ranting like a fanatic) you’ll think otherwise.

Personally I hope we take action against Iran soon. Hopefully not this year though because I’d be pissed to leave Iraq right now straight for Iran.

Oh and the vicious dog comment? I hear this a lot coming from terrorists when they shoot eratticaly at us when we’re moving down a street trying to "HELP THIS COUNTRY."

Take what you want from current events of the news but as I move across the land of Iraq I see many U.S. Soldiers bending over backwards trying to help the people here today.

Maybe if they stopped firing at us you’d see the good will of the U.S.

So as a Soldier over here busting his ass trying to make a difference, shut up and think about your words before a man similar in views to Hitler is controlling your life.
 
Written By: Ricardo Branch
URL: http://
As an Iranian-American I find it disturbing that the most "civilised" country on earth has been transformed into a fanatic, religous theocracy that sees the world in black & white. (In case you’re wondering, I’m referring to the US)

Let’s put all this dillusional paranoia into context: Iran’s first nuclear reactor is scheduled to begin operations sometime in 2006. As of right now, the country does not even have a working reactor. The neocons, along with their Israeli freinds are on every media outlet in the Western world predicting armagedon, despite their own rather large and growing stockpiles of WMD’s. Iran does not currently pose any realistic threat to anyone.

Apparently, the experience of invading one country using false intelligence has not been painful enough for us. We must push full speed ahead with a second illegal invasion, just so some moron like "Joe" can get his WAR fix.
 
Written By: Buzz
URL: http://
Let’s put all this dillusional paranoia into context: Iran’s first nuclear reactor is scheduled to begin operations sometime in 2006. As of right now, the country does not even have a working reactor. The neocons, along with their Israeli freinds are on every media outlet in the Western world predicting armagedon, despite their own rather large and growing stockpiles of WMD’s. Iran does not currently pose any realistic threat to anyone.

LOL!

Good grief. You don’t have to have a "working reactor" to build a nuclear weapon.

As for predicting Armagedon, who’s the wingnut declaring Israel should be "wiped from the map?"

Apparently, the experience of invading one country using false intelligence has not been painful enough for us.

Well tell me, if Iran’s purposes are peaceful, why is it reported that it is buying long-range missiles from NoKo, extending their range and working on the ability to fit nuclear weapons on them ... if this is all about peaceful, powergenerating nuclear power. False intelligence?
 
Written By: McQ
URL: http://www.qando.net/
As usual, there is no reasoning with fanatics.

The long range missile purchase from North Korea is in response to consistent threat of attack from both the US and Israel over the past year and a half. Even a simpleton would recognize that Iran’s purchase of long range missiles give the country no offensive capability, which is the backbone of your argument. We cannot expect other countries not to respond to our threat of attack.

If Iran was concerned with an offensive military strategy, there would be a much greater emphasis on modernizing their conventional forces. Iran dedicated only 3.3% of the national GDP to the military last year. By comparison, Israel devoted 8.7% of GDP and Saudi Arabia spent 10% of GDP on their military. How do can you explain that?

You assume that the moment the Mullah’s get their hands on a bomb, they are going to seal their own fate by attacking Israel. Trust me, if there is one thing you can count on is the fact that the Mullahs in Iran are not going to do anything to threaten their privileged status. Why would they precipitate their own demise by attacking Israel or the US?

Every strategic move on the part of Iran has been to bolster their defensive capability. Rather than listening to over-hyped rhetoric from the Iranian president, maybe you should spend some time looking at expert analysis of the country’s military development strategy.

Look, no one likes the current regime in Iran specially Iranians both inside and outside the country. But rest assured that the same people will defend their country regardless of how they feel about their government. An attack may even bolster support for the Iranian government.
 
Written By: Buzz
URL: http://
As usual, there is no reasoning with fanatics.

As we’re learning with the current regime in Iran, not to mention truebelievers like yourself.

The long range missile purchase from North Korea is in response to consistent threat of attack from both the US and Israel over the past year and a half.

Uh, huh, and that little shuttle that’s been going on between NoKo and Iran through China for over 10 years? What about that?

Even a simpleton would recognize that Iran’s purchase of long range missiles give the country no offensive capability, which is the backbone of your argument.

LoL! And only a simpleton would make the sort of idiotic claim you made in that sentence.

Tell me, are Russian ICBMs strictly defensive? China’s? Those belonging to the US? Intercontinental Ballistic Missiles are overtly offensive weapons.

We cannot expect other countries not to respond to our threat of attack.

Well here’s the problem, even with the NoKo missile they can’t touch the US. So your treading on very thin ice with this nonsensical defense of Iranian perfidy. If we’re talking nuclear exchage with the US it’s a onesided fight and Iran loses ... badly ... even with the missiles. So one then, if they’re intellectually honest, has to consider other reasons for such missiles than an "American threat".

A conceivable reason is to use the shorter range Shabaz-3’s on Israel and hold the longer range NoKo missiles in reserve and threaten Central Europe with them should anyone try to retaliate.

Or said another way, they’re trying to find a way to "wipe Israel off the map" without suffering the same fate in a nuclear exchange.

You assume that the moment the Mullah’s get their hands on a bomb, they are going to seal their own fate by attacking Israel. Trust me, if there is one thing you can count on is the fact that the Mullahs in Iran are not going to do anything to threaten their privileged status. Why would they precipitate their own demise by attacking Israel or the US?

See above. That’s how.

Every strategic move on the part of Iran has been to bolster their defensive capability. Rather than listening to over-hyped rhetoric from the Iranian president, maybe you should spend some time looking at expert analysis of the country’s military development strategy.

ICBMs aren’t necessary for a nation with peaceful intent, especially when the ICBMs in question can’t reach the purported enemy they seem to feel they need to defend against. So excuse me if I reject your rather inelegant and virtually fact free attempt at rationalizing Iran’s aquisition of ICBMs for "defensive purposes".

Look, no one likes the current regime in Iran specially Iranians both inside and outside the country. But rest assured that the same people will defend their country regardless of how they feel about their government. An attack may even bolster support for the Iranian government.

I’m not sure Israel cares one whit about whether the support for the Iranian government is bolstered or not as long as the nuclear threat Iran poses in terms of Israel’s survival is neutralized. The rest will work itself out one way or the other without Israel being "wiped off the map".
 
Written By: McQ
URL: http://www.qando.net/
Look, no one likes the current regime in Iran specially Iranians both inside and outside the country. But rest assured that the same people will defend their country regardless of how they feel about their government. An attack may even bolster support for the Iranian government.
—Buzz


I find it funny how you can blast the U.S. with comments yet don’t say nothing about your own president running Iran who says Isreal should be wiped off the face of the Earth.

You even call it over-hyped rhetoric when a president talks about wiping a country off the face of the Earth.

Why is that?



I’m under the assuption your argument has not merit now because I haven’t seen the U.S. talking about wiping a country off the face of the Earth.

We did talk about regime change and now are even helping the country (like we did to Germany) become better than it ever was.


 
Written By: Ricardo Branch
URL: http://
Furthermore, you mention no one likes the current regime inside and outside the country, well that doesn’t say much for you or the Iranians now does it.

Sure you can have love for your country but comeon man, destroy another country comments just slip by you!

You’d sit back and not say a word about it, yet defend a man you don’t even like having in office.

I’d say the blind are leading the blind then in your country.
 
Written By: Ricardo Branch
URL: http://
Let’s make this real simple:

Iran cannot attack either Israel or the US with nuclear weapons BECAUSE THEY DON’T HAVE NUCLEAR WEAPONS.

ICBMs aren’t necessary for a nation with peaceful intent, especially when the ICBMs in question can’t reach the purported enemy they seem to feel they need to defend against. So excuse me if I reject your rather inelegant and virtually fact free attempt at rationalizing Iran’s aquisition of ICBMs for "defensive purposes".

So I see, the Iranian ICBM’s can magically reach and threaten Western Europe, but not Israel. Please refer to a world atlas.

Well here’s the problem, even with the NoKo missile they can’t touch the US. So your treading on very thin ice with this nonsensical defense of Iranian perfidy. If we’re talking nuclear exchage with the US it’s a onesided fight and Iran loses ... badly ... even with the missiles. So one then, if they’re intellectually honest, has to consider other reasons for such missiles than an "American threat".

A conceivable reason is to use the shorter range Shabaz-3’s on Israel and hold the longer range NoKo missiles in reserve and threaten Central Europe with them should anyone try to retaliate.

Or said another way, they’re trying to find a way to "wipe Israel off the map" without suffering the same fate in a nuclear exchange.


If the “NoKo” are no threat to the US, why are we so worked up about these ineffective weapons?
If Iran is guaranteed to lose a confrontation with the US, wouldn’t an attack on Israel guarantee such a confrontation, regardless of Iran’s limited capability to threaten Western Europe? (Thanks for making my point)
Shabaz-3’s? Don’t you mean Shahab-3’s?

There are no nuclear weapons in Iran. Just like Iraq. There is no justifiable cause for a strike on Iran. Just like Iraq. Going to war with Iran would be a tragic mistake. Just like Iraq. Get it?

Ricardo Branch, if you really are in Iraq, I wish you a safe return home.
 
Written By: Buzz
URL: http://
Ricardo Branch,

I don’t give a rat’s ass whether the Iranian president lives or dies or burns in hell. He is an idiot for even suggesting an attack on Israel.

I do care about all the civilians and military personnel on both sides who will surely loose their lives for a needless war.
 
Written By: Buzz
URL: http://
Iran cannot attack either Israel or the US with nuclear weapons BECAUSE THEY DON’T HAVE NUCLEAR WEAPONS.

Duh!

And the idea is to KEEP IT THAT WAY.

So I see, the Iranian ICBM’s can magically reach and threaten Western Europe, but not Israel. Please refer to a world atlas.

Yikes. Have you been paying attention? Did you read the entire comment before you responded?

I do note that you dropped the nonsensical "ICBMs are strictly defensive" rhetoric at least.

If the “NoKo” are no threat to the US, why are we so worked up about these ineffective weapons?

This is getting laughable. You are the one who claimed that the ICBMs were defensive weapons to which the Iranians were entitled because they were under the threat of attack by the US ... not me.

I also never said the missiles were "ineffective" (so please, don’t put words in my mouth) I said they wouldn’t reach the US, so, obviously they aren’t being purchased for the reason you claim, huh?

If Iran is guaranteed to lose a confrontation with the US, wouldn’t an attack on Israel guarantee such a confrontation, regardless of Iran’s limited capability to threaten Western Europe?

That’s the point of the scenario. If Iran feels it’s threat to nuke central Europe would be enough to keep the US from retaliating for a nuclear attack on Israel with the shorter range missiles, it is conceivable they might do it, given the preference of the wingnut running the place that Israel be "wiped off the map".

Are you just not able to grasp that possibility or what?

(Thanks for making my point)

What point? If you’ve had a point, other than to excuse Iran for violating the nuclear non-proliferation pact it signed, I’ve missed it. Essentially you’ve been an apologist, and a rather poor one at that.

There are no nuclear weapons in Iran. Just like Iraq. There is no justifiable cause for a strike on Iran. Just like Iraq. Going to war with Iran would be a tragic mistake. Just like Iraq. Get it?

Got it. Do you "get it?" Iran is not going to be left to develop nukes, and Israel is most likely going to be the nation that ensures that since it is Israel who Iran has recently and repeatedly threatened.

I would guess Israel doesn’t plan on going to war with Iran. Instead it will identify and destroy Iran’s capability to build nuclear weapons, probably through some sort of a military strike ... just like it did in Iraq.

Clear?

So ...

There are no nuclear weapons in Iran.

... will remain the case, whether you or Iran like it or not.
 
Written By: McQ
URL: http://www.qando.net/
I do care about all the civilians and military personnel on both sides who will surely loose their lives for a needless war.

Well there’s a real easy way to avoid all of that.

Tell him to shut the hell up and tell the country to abide by the nuclear non-proliferation pact they signed.

Ball’s in their court.
 
Written By: McQ
URL: http://www.qando.net/
Typical. The belligerent attitude of a fanatic when faced with a logical proposition they cannot argue with.

Let’s all welcome MCQ to the real world. The fact is this: Iran is a signatory of the NPT and has allowed full inspection of it’s facilities. There is NO EVIDENCE of a nuclear weapons programm in Iran. That’s a fact and it will not change regardless of how many times you guys talk about nuclear warheads on ICBM’s.

Israel is not a signatory to the NPT. It refuses any inspections of its facilities and has long track record of offensive and illegal military confrontaions wtih its neighbours. Ofcourse, I’m sure that’s all quiet alright with you.

Why don’t you come out and admit it. You hate Iranians. It bothers you that one of these countries may actually stand on their own two feet and control their own affairs.

It probably bothers you even more that if Iran chooses to become a nuclear power, there isn’t a god damned thing America can do about it. Much less Israel.

Having your ass handed to you on the web should be pretty embarassing too.
 
Written By: buzz
URL: http://
The belligerent attitude of a fanatic when faced with a logical proposition they cannot argue with.

Typical of someone who’s getting bested in a discussion. All of a sudden the other person is a "fanatic" and everything said by the person being bested is "a logical propositon".

Here’s a clue, Skippy, you haven’t had a logical proposition since you began your ranting, and projecting your shortcomings on me isn’t working.

You’ve backed off of everything you’ve said to this point and are now reduced to the level of claiming I’m a fanatic.

Hilarious.

Let’s all welcome MCQ to the real world. The fact is this: Iran is a signatory of the NPT and has allowed full inspection of it’s facilities. There is NO EVIDENCE of a nuclear weapons programm in Iran. That’s a fact and it will not change regardless of how many times you guys talk about nuclear warheads on ICBM’s.

Wrong.
Since the end of the Iran-Iraq War, Tehran redoubled its efforts to develop weapons of mass destruction (WMD) and ballistic missiles. In addition to Iran’s legitimate efforts to develop its nuclear power-generation industry, it is believed to be operating a parallel clandestine nuclear weapons program. Iran appears to be following a policy of complying with the NPT and building its nuclear power program in such a way that if the appropriate political decision is made, know-how gained in the peaceful sphere (specialists and equipment) could be used to create nuclear weapons (dual-use technologies have been sold to Iran by at least nine western companies during the early 1990’s). Also, in this atmosphere of deception, unconfirmed reports have been made that Tehran purchased several nuclear warheads in the early 1990’s

It is evident that Iran’s efforts are focused both on uranium enrichment and a parallel plutonium effort. Iran claims it is trying to establish a complete nuclear fuel cycle to support a civilian energy program, but this same fuel cycle would be applicable to a nuclear weapons development program. Iran appears to have spread their nuclear activities around a number of sites to reduce the risk of detection or attack.

Iran does not currently have nuclear weapons, and would appear to be about two years away from acquiring nuclear weapons. By some time in 2006, however, Iran could be producting fissile material for atomic bombs using both uranium enriched at Natanz and plutonium produced at Arak. The Natanz facility might produce enough uranium for about five bombs every year, and the Arak facility might produced enough plutonium for as many as three bombs every year.


Look, if you’re really interested in reality, try joining us in this one, ok?

Israel is not a signatory to the NPT. It refuses any inspections of its facilities and has long track record of offensive and illegal military confrontaions wtih its neighbours.

Well there you go, Skippy, so they’ve not broken any pact have they? Nor do they owe anyone "inspections".

Ofcourse, I’m sure that’s all quiet alright with you.

Well that’s part of reality, you see. Is Iran a smoking hole in the desert? No? Well then yes, they’re having nukes is fine with me since they’ve not threatened to wipe Iran off the map.

OTOH, my absolute belief is that if the shoe were on the other foot, and Iran had nukes, Israel would indeed be a smoking hole in the desert, and, of course that would be alright with you, wouldn’t it?

Why don’t you come out and admit it. You hate Iranians. It bothers you that one of these countries may actually stand on their own two feet and control their own affairs.

I’ll tell you what ... you first. You tell me that you hate Israel and I’ll be glad to return the favor about Iran if it’s appropriate.

It probably bothers you even more that if Iran chooses to become a nuclear power, there isn’t a god damned thing America can do about it. Much less Israel.

Actually there’s all kinds of things both can do and may and there’s not much Iran can do about it.

Having your ass handed to you on the web should be pretty embarassing too.

Heh ... oh it’s been done before...but not by someone as lame as you.

Not by a long shot.
 
Written By: McQ
URL: http://www.qando.net/
You hate Iranians. It bothers you that one of these countries may actually stand on their own two feet and control their own affairs.

What? They haven’t been doing that since 1979?

In fact, if they just wanted to create their own little Islamic hell-hole and not attempt to export it, I believe that most Americans would say "Have a nice trip!"

 
Written By: Mark A. Flacy
URL: http://
Okay dim-wit. Let me try to really simplify things for you.

1. Iran has not attacked a neighboring country in centuries. Expansion of territory is simply not in the national psyche. Expansion of the Islamic political system is not realistic as it has very little domestic support.

2. Iran simply does not have the means or the will to mount an effective attack on Israel or the US. It’s not in their national best interest and they are aware of it. It would be irrational for them to attempt it. Therefore, there is no threat that would justify legal military action by either the US or Israel. Get it?

3. You’re simple minded and somewhat racist assumption that the behavior of the Iranian state can be counted upon to be irrational is just plane wrong. As an example, consider the Iranian government’s response to the shooting down of an Iranian passenger plane by the USS Vincennes towards the end of the Iran-Iraq war. In the face of overwhelming public demand for an immediate reprisal, the government did nothing, realizing the risks in doing so.

4. The United States has dictated that Iran limit its nuclear fuel cycle knowing the Iranian regime cannot comply with such a demand. Therefore, the action is designed to heighten tension and possibly instigate a conflict. (Let’s not forget, Iraq did everything it could to comply with US demands to no avail)

5. Having failed miserably in Iraq, the necons are now busy planning for their next possible “Hearts and Minds” campaign. Translated to English: since the national looting in Iraq was not quiet as fruitful as they hoped, they are now looking towards Iran. You, my little idiot, are just along for the ride since you’re too stupid to figure it out.

So here is your position: Iran is not a threat to the US, but we should go ahead and attack them because your “absolute belief is that if the shoe were on the other foot, and Iran had nukes, Israel would indeed be a smoking hole in the desert.” Well that’s special. I’m glad you are willing to risk thousands of lives based on your “absolute belief.” I have no doubt, you will be putting your life on the line for your “absolute belief.” Isn’t that the very definition of fanatic?

I do not hate Israel. I do not hate my adopted country, America. What I hate are stupid / violent people.

If you’re going to source a website (Globalsecurity.org), at least give them credit, then we would all know what you are using as your source for your ridiculous argument.

I love all these self-appointed experts on the Middle East who until three years ago couldn’t spot the region on a world map.

How’s that for having your ass handed to you, better?
 
Written By: buzz
URL: http://
(Let’s not forget, Iraq did everything it could to comply with US demands to no avail)

That’s pretty funny. In which comedy clubs do you normally perform?

 
Written By: Mark A. Flacy
URL: http://
So here is your position: Iran is not a threat to the US, but we should go ahead and attack them because your “absolute belief is that if the shoe were on the other foot, and Iran had nukes, Israel would indeed be a smoking hole in the desert.” Well that’s special. I’m glad you are willing to risk thousands of lives based on your “absolute belief.” I have no doubt, you will be putting your life on the line for your “absolute belief.” Isn’t that the very definition of fanatic?

You have this around the wrong way. Destroying Irans nuclear program is a way of reducing risk. Absolute belief does not play any part. The whole point of taking Irans nuclear program apart is so that Israel and everybody else who is criticised as sinful, deviant, immoral infidels by the high Ayotollahs do not need to risk being annihilated by Iranian nuclear weapons. should we lay our lives on the line to accept this risk.

We could believe them when they say that they are not developing nukes, but we don’t believe them when they call us sinful, deviant or immoral. There is no trust, we have to see and they do not allow inspections of all material.

If action is taken now all risk is the borne by the military (who accept the risk & are proficient at minimising risks) and thousands of Iranians (who have made it abundantly clear they are not our friends). If we do not act now and they develop nuclear weapons we risk a much more costly confrontation later.
 
Written By: unaha-closp
URL: http://warisforwinning.blogspot.com/
The "evil" rhetoric has been going back and forth between Iran and the US for years. President Bush has been just as guilty as the Mullahs. Remember his "Axis of Evil" speech. (Not to excuse the inexcusable behavior of the Mullahs)

With regards to “thousands of Iranians (who have made it abundantly clear they are not our friends).” I was in Iran in April, and will say without a doubt there are far more Iranians who like the US than those who don’t.

Besides, keep in mind that we are disliked by a lot of people in a lot of countries. That does not mean we should go to war with them.

If we go to war with Iran, it will not be a war of necessity. It will be a war of choice.
 
Written By: Buzz
URL: http://
Okay dim-wit. Let me try to really simplify things for you.

Oh this ought to be good.

1. Iran has not attacked a neighboring country in centuries. Expansion of territory is simply not in the national psyche. Expansion of the Islamic political system is not realistic as it has very little domestic support.

Irrelevant in the face of its determination to develop nuclear weapons. Now, because of its ability to murder in large numbers through the use of WMD, it’s a threat to at least one neighbor it has been rehtorically threatening since the religious fanatics took control.

Secondly, "little domestic support" is irrelevant in the face of a theorcratic dictatorship who pretends to have a republican form of government while rigging elections so they win each time.

And tell me Skippy, how much "domestic support" did it’s 8 year war with Iraq have? And if little, why is the same regime still in power?

2. Iran simply does not have the means or the will to mount an effective attack on Israel or the US. It’s not in their national best interest and they are aware of it. It would be irrational for them to attempt it. Therefore, there is no threat that would justify legal military action by either the US or Israel. Get it?

Are you really this freakin’ clueless? We’re not talking about human wave attacks here, Skippy. It’s as though you have no concept of what nuclear weapons do. Three descent size nuclear weapons and Israel ceases to exist.

And you have no freakin’ idea of what they consider to be in their "best national interest" concerning Israel or whether in their religious fanaticism they think they can pull off a little nuclear brinksmanship and destroy Israel in the meantime. So quit pretending you have some inside track to their thinking. You’re as clueless as anyone else and that’s the problem. The leadership continues to make rhetorically threatening statements and when it comes to nukes and rational people take those sorts of threats seriously.

A thinking person, with an ounce of common sense would know that.

4. The United States has dictated that Iran limit its nuclear fuel cycle knowing the Iranian regime cannot comply with such a demand. Therefore, the action is designed to heighten tension and possibly instigate a conflict. (Let’s not forget, Iraq did everything it could to comply with US demands to no avail)

What bullshit. Tell me when it allowed the IAEA to investigate the 80+ identified "secret" sites in which it is doing nuclear weapons research? When has it allowed anyone?

Iran has made promises continually and then reneged on them. "We won’t enrich". "We will enrich". Who the hell do you think you’re talking too, someone unaware of the perfidy of the Iranian government?

5. Having failed miserably in Iraq, the necons are now busy planning for their next possible “Hearts and Minds” campaign. Translated to English: since the national looting in Iraq was not quiet as fruitful as they hoped, they are now looking towards Iran. You, my little idiot, are just along for the ride since you’re too stupid to figure it out.

Well there we go ... absolute nonsense parading as reasoned debate. Let me speak a little truth to this propaganda.

Unlike Iran, Iraq just had its 3rd free election in a year. Unlike Iran, Iraq has a constitution which means something. Unlike Iran, Iraq is free and its people are buying into the concept of representative government (as witnessed by those free elections unlike anything Iran has since the fanatics like yourself have taken over).

But then, the Iranian facists do have fellow travelers and apologists like yourself who go out of their way to spread propagand for the murderous regime now in power.

So here is your position: Iran is not a threat to the US, but we should go ahead and attack them because your “absolute belief is that if the shoe were on the other foot, and Iran had nukes, Israel would indeed be a smoking hole in the desert.” Well that’s special. I’m glad you are willing to risk thousands of lives based on your “absolute belief.” I have no doubt, you will be putting your life on the line for your “absolute belief.” Isn’t that the very definition of fanatic?

I never said a word about attacking Iran. That’s been your fantasy since the beginning. I’ve said that most likely Israel will take out the Iranian nuclear facilities. You, of course, have completely ignored those points to continue your nonsensical ravings about the US attacking Iran.

I’ve also been very specific about saying I doubted anyone was going to go to war with Iran, and that, instead, it will probably be a strike at only those facilities.

So what you’ve managed to do, as all logic challenged dupes such as yourself do, is twist and ignore my words in order to invent a strawman.

Great. Irrelevant, and nonresponsive to the points I made, but something you can rhetorically knock the stuffing out of in an attempt to salvage some semblance of self-esteem after getting your ass handed to you repeatedly in this little back and forth.

I do not hate Israel. I do not hate my adopted country, America. What I hate are stupid / violent people.

Really ... well who here has said "Israel should be wiped off the map?" Why isn’t the same level of anger shown toward the stupid and violent people who run Iran?

If you’re going to source a website (Globalsecurity.org), at least give them credit, then we would all know what you are using as your source for your ridiculous argument.

You are one clueless individual aren’t you? That’s why the freakin’ link is included dimbulb.

And your answer to their findings?

I love all these self-appointed experts on the Middle East who until three years ago couldn’t spot the region on a world map.

LOL! Hey, whizbang, I’ve been to Iran. Of course it was before the fanatics took over. This is typical of all your ravings. No basis in fact. Dumbass assumptions that get destroyed immediately after you type them.

How’s that for having your ass handed to you, better?

What’s the first word that comes to mind? Oh, yeah, "laughable".

You’re pathetic sir, and no, not even close.
 
Written By: McQ
URL: http://www.qando.net/
This is pointless. It’s like talking to a four year old throwing a tantrum.

The action would not be justified, because we can’t attack a country based on what they may or may not do in the future. Are you really that stupid?

As you have set the precedent, I’ll answer each one of your questions one by one.

how much "domestic support" did it’s 8 year war with Iraq have?

The government had nearly unanimous support in the Iran-Iraq war. That usually happens when your country is invaded. It’s not really a choice; you fight or submit to foreign rule.

The leadership continues to make rhetorically threatening statements and when it comes to nukes and rational people take those sorts of threats seriously.

The leadership in both countries have been threatening each other with outlandish claims of attack since Israel invaded Lebanon in the 80’s. Both countries are just as guilty in this regard. By your logic, given all the Israeli threats against Iran over the years, and given that Israel already has nuclear weapons, Iran would be justified in attacking Israel.

And you have no freakin’ idea of what they consider to be in their "best national interest" concerning Israel or whether in their religious fanaticism they think they can pull off a little nuclear brinksmanship and destroy Israel in the meantime.

Okay dumbass. To try some nuclear brinkmanship, one would have to be a nuclear power first. Yeah, yeah, I know, it is your "absolute belief" that if they had it they would use it. Well, since they don’t have it and are no where close to getting it, you know what you can do with your "absolute belief."

What bullshit. Tell me when it allowed the IAEA to investigate the 80+ identified "secret" sites in which it is doing nuclear weapons research? When has it allowed anyone?

The IAEA has been in Iran with a permanent mission for nearly two years and has repeatedly confirmed Iran’s co-operation. Please refer to the Director General’s report date Nov. 18th. http://www.iaea.org/Publications/Documents/Board/2005/gov2005-87.pdf .... Bullshit?

Unlike Iran, Iraq just had its 3rd free election in a year. Unlike Iran, Iraq has a constitution which means something. Unlike Iran, Iraq is free and its people are buying into the concept of representative government (as witnessed by those free elections unlike anything Iran has since the fanatics like yourself have taken over).

Correction. Unlike Iraq, Iran is not close to civil war and complete chaos. Unlike Iraq, Iran is not under foreign control disguised as "Liberation." Unlike Iraq, Iran’s constitution was actually written by Iranians (novel idea). Unlike Iraq, Iran has had dozens of regional and national elections and no one has been blow-up. Oh, one more thing, unlike Iraq, Iran infrastructure is still standing. (This is too easy, LOL)

I’ve also been very specific about saying I doubted anyone was going to go to war with Iran, and that, instead, it will probably be a strike at only those facilities.

How the hell is attacking a country different from going to war with them, regardless of who does it? And how does this have any bearing on whether the action would be justified?

Really ... well who here has said "Israel should be wiped off the map?" Why isn’t the same level of anger shown toward the stupid and violent people who run Iran?

Certainly not me. Please refer to my previous post above. Here, I’ll make it easy for you. Earlier I said: I don’t give a rat’s ass whether the Iranian president lives or dies or burns in hell. He is an idiot for even suggesting an attack on Israel. Just to clarify, I hate the Iranian government. Clear.

LOL! Hey, whizbang, I’ve been to Iran. Of course it was before the fanatics took over. This is typical of all your ravings. No basis in fact. Dumbass assumptions that get destroyed immediately after you type them.

Very doubtful, but even if it was true, it would certainly help explain your lack of understanding of the country. The last time you were there was over 25 years ago. (Incidentally, I was born and raised in Iran, so please don’t preach to me about having an "inside track". I have friends and family in the country, so yes, I do have an inside track

Look, you’re a war freak. Everyone recognizes that. You don’t have to bother defending your position with stupid arguments. I’m sure sooner or later, we will attack so poor defenseless country under the guise of "Liberation", kill a bunch of innocent people and install some puppet government there. Just be patient. Sit there in your chair and rock back and forth like a retard and keep chanting, WAR, WAR, WAR. It’ll happen sooner or later.

 
Written By: Buzz
URL: http://
This is pointless. It’s like talking to a four year old throwing a tantrum.

Really ... so you’re growing tired of your own actions?

Look, you’re a war freak. Everyone recognizes that...

And you’re simply to congenitally stupid to argue logically or factually. So you instead have to resort to simplistic and disingenuous argument, deception and subject change. You ignore facts and counter arguments and use ad homiem—the usual plethora of insipid rhetorical tactics that intellectual knife-fighters display when they unexpectly end up in a gun fight.

Or to make it easier for you to understand: you’re an intellectual lightweight who hasn’t the cognizant ability to understand how badly you’ve come off in this.

But to quote you, "everyone realizes that..." except you.

Go propagandize another blog with your half-truths and apologies for the murderous regime in Iran. Ignore the facts and counter arguments and see if you fare any better.

Oh ... and, if you had any balls at all, instead of talking about me fighting in a hypothetical war against Iran, you’d be home working actively to overthrow the Mullahs and fighting for the freedom of Iran. Instead you whine in a safe country which protects your freedom to do so while not having the guts to put your life on the line and win them for the country of your heritage.
 
Written By: McQ
URL: http://www.qando.net/
Typical! I countered your hollow claims point-by-point, and the best you can come up with is the "if you don’t like it here, why don’t you go home argument."

That’s impressive.

Its real simple: There is no evidence of an Iranian Nuclear Weapons program to be found, because it does not exist. Just like the Iraqi WMD program did not exist.

I went through this song and dance with idiots like you before we invaded Iraq and heard all the same insulting / stupid comebacks. Guess what, there were no WMD’s in Iraq either. Since the invasion, people just like you have gone from one silly justification for the war in Iraq to another: WMD’s, links to terrorism, liberating the Iraqi people and finally spreading democracy. 2,100+ American soldiers and over 30,000 Iraqi’s have paid for those outright lies with their lives and we have gained nothing but contempt from the rest of humanity.

It is farcical and laughable how you people hide behind you hollow moral justifications for murder.

Oh by the way, I am fighting for my country of heritage. I am fighting to save it from blood-thirsty maniacs like you. What the hell do you think I’ve been doing over the last two days arguing with a moron like you? Trust me; it wasn’t for your sake.
 
Written By: Buzz
URL: http://
Typical! I countered your hollow claims point-by-point,

LOL!

Point by point? The fact that you actually write a pathetic bunch of nonsense between ’points’ doesn’t then equal countering anything.

Ye gods.

...and the best you can come up with is the "if you don’t like it here, why don’t you go home argument."

See, you can’t even get that right.

You are indeed hopeless.

McQ: Only one this week so far and this is already Wednesday.

Wingnuts don’t normally travel in packs, Book. But they are entertaining. Take this guy ...he actually thinks he’s done well in all of this.

You’re going soft slugger...

Yeah, well the week is young and you’ve managed to remain relatively noncontroversial to this point. I’m sure you’ll screw up at some point in the next few days.
 
Written By: McQ
URL: http://www.qando.net/
I’m sorry, didn’t mean to hurt your feelings MCQ. There, there.

Look, next time you decide to point your “intellectual gun” at someone, make sure it’s loaded.

Here is a remedy for your current state: why don’t you curl up in fetal position and suck on you thumb for a while thinking happy thoughts about mushroom clouds over Tehran.

Isn’t that better? Poor baby!
 
Written By: Buzz
URL: http://
Have a nice day buzz ... my guess is you’re a true product of the "my precious" crowd as witnessed by your total inability to successfully argue a point but to believe you have.

In your case, self-delusion is probably a blessing.
 
Written By: McQ
URL: http://www.qando.net/
Thank you McQ. Remember to take your thumb out of your mouth every once in while and swallow.

We wouldn’t want you dribbling all over yourself. People may get the impression you’re retarded. That’s simply not true. You’re just a little slow and there is nothing wrong with that.
 
Written By: Buzz
URL: http://
Besides, keep in mind that we are disliked by a lot of people in a lot of countries. That does not mean we should go to war with them.

You are disliked by people in all countries if polling data is to be believed, only most countries have the decency not to point nuclear missiles at you. By attacking Iran you will not stop the dislike, but you will stop the nuclear missiles.

If we go to war with Iran, it will not be a war of necessity. It will be a war of choice.

Yeah - a war of choice, good point. Its a no loss war (apart from the casualities). If you do nothing they dislike you and do it with nukes pointed at you. If you attack and fail then they do the same thing. And if you win they dislike you and shout cutting remarks at you. Cutting remarks are less painful than radiation burns.


Its real simple: There is no evidence of an Iranian Nuclear Weapons program to be found, because it does not exist. Just like the Iraqi WMD program did not exist.

Pull the other one.

No one buys thirty 3500 km range ICBMs, with targeting ability so bad that they can only hit a city 9x out of 10 and then straps a warhead capable of destroying only one building to the top - they’d have to be mad or desperate. The only use for these things is to deliver WMDs, preferably nukes.

Unlike Iraq, Iran is using nuclear technology. They are attempting to produce nuclear power, which is all well and good, but they have barred IAEA from tracing all of the material and wish to develop dual use weapon/power generation tech when single use power generation only tech is made available.
 
Written By: Unaha-closp
URL: http://
I don’t think we’re really that concerned about pissed-off Iranian 5 year-olds.
 
Written By: McQ
URL: http://www.qando.net/
Wow, you two have really outdone yourselves. The inteligence being displayed here, is astounding.

Is that the best you too loosers could come up with?

Here, let me pour some fuel on that fire. Not only am I the proud holder of an American passport, I also married a beautiful American girl. To top that, I probably earn more in a year than you two looser could hope to make in 5 years, combined.

Don’t you just love that?

LOL
 
Written By: buzz
URL: http://
Is that the best you too [sic] loosers could come up with?

"Too" losers. Too funny.

Nothing like chumming for idiotfish.

Works every time.
 
Written By: McQ
URL: http://www.qando.net/
That’s a great idea Book.

Spoken like a true fascist. If you can’t beat them, arrest them. Is that it?

I don’t understand why you guys don’t like Iran? You would be well qualified for government jobs over there. They love violent, intolerant extremists.
 
Written By: Buzz
URL: http://
I don’t understand why you guys don’t like Iran? You would be well qualified for government jobs over there. They love violent, intolerant extremists.

You’d trust Book with nukes?
 
Written By: Unaha-closp
URL: http://
Where is the IAEA when allies such as Isreal produce nukes, I dont seem to recall the IAEA dragging Isreal to the UN security council. Iran is purchasing weapons and making weapons to deter any would be attack on its nation which EVERY country has the right to do from Isreal to Iran to any other country.
One russian general, I cant seem to recall his name, said that the only time the US or Isreal would have to worry about Irans weapons is when and if they attack. Irans president does seem a bit wierd. He does not have the power as President as western countys see, he simply talks out of the hopping to rally support for his goverment. Sorry to break the truth but 99% of the middle eastern countries fully agree the Ahmadijanes comments.
Lets hope this all boils down im paying 3 Gallons per litre ;)
 
Written By: Samy
URL: http://

 
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