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Will anyone admit it is a clash of cultures now?
Posted by: McQ on Friday, February 03, 2006

I've been watching this cartoon bruhaha bubble along for days now (you can find everything you wanted to know about it here). You know the one I'm talking about. A Danish newspaper published some cartoons that Muslims found offensive. Certain countries (Saudi Arabia I believe is one) banned Danish products and Danish Muslims demanded the Danish Prime Minister make the paper which published the cartoons apologize. To his everlasting credit, the PM said (and I paraphrase, being too lazy to look it up), "I don't have the authority to do so nor do I want it".

That was the first round and frankly it probably should have ended there. But Europe is beginning to wake up to the problem they face with their muslim population.

Soon we saw a Norwegian paper print the cartoons in solidarity with the Danish paper. Eventually they witdrew the cartoons and apologized. Then came a French newspaper which published the cartoons. Within a couple of days the editor was sacked and the paper apologized.

This all happened as the stridency, scope and frequency of the muslim protests increased. They're demonstrating not only in Europe but in Pakistan and elsewhere now.

Anyone who doesn't now understand that this is a classic clash of cultures must not be the brightest penny in the roll. And what should be equally as evident is the desire of those who are protesting these cartoons that their religious beliefs be treated as both mainstream and primary.
They demand a particular outcome outcome and to hell with established secular law.

I guess these protests could be interpreted in a number of ways. But given the events of the past decade, they mostly point to a culture clash of the first magnatude between a modern, mostly secular culture with a fairly high degree of tolerance with a backward and feudal culture with little or no tolerance and little desire to change.

I've talked about the serious need for Islamic reform. I've pointed out the none other than the Roman Catholic Pope has said the mechanism for such reformation within the Islamic faith doesn't exist.

If that's true and if there is or will be no reformation, then what we're seeing isn't an exception, but the beginning of the "rule". As the inexorable tide of muslim immigration continues to wash over Europe, this won't get better. In fact it will get worse. Europe seems to be coming to an understanding about the seriousness of this problem. This foreign culture isn't one that wants to assimilate and add to the existing culture found in Europe. This is a culture which wants to completely replace the existing culture.

The cartoon imbroglio is only a small battle in a war which will become increasingly visible, increasingly strident and possibly violent. It's a war for cultural keeps. Any guess as to how it will turn out?
 
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There is nothing wrong with Islam, and it will never change to make Westerners happy. Certainly Muslims have problems and those problems need to be solved and attempts are being made. I dont know of any Muslim who likes this "clash of civilizations" theory. Its only Westerners who get really excited about it.
 
Written By: Aamir Ali
URL: http://
It reminds me of the hubub over Janet Jackon at the Superbowl. In that case the fanatics issued demands, networks were fined. The media caved in and said that it will never happen again.


Fortunately the Dutch, French, Germans and Italians have more guts than the American media when it comes to standing up to the religious zealots.


BTW: Go Steelers.
 
Written By: cindy
URL: http://
I don’t think there’s any secret to how this will end. In Denmark, Moslems are the most criminal, most segregated community. The last couple of years have seen the rise of "empowered" Moslems who want to tell us Danes how to live, telling us that it is really the womens’ fault when they are raped because they are "slutty" and that we are "kaffirs" and therefore "unclean".

If nothing dramatic happens, of which I see no sign, it is relatively certain that people in Denmark will just say "enough is enough" and do something about it.

I don’t remember where I read this point the first time, but it really does cover my POV very well:
The Moslems are only agressive because we seem so passive. The only reason why they are not shot to pieces when they assault us and rape our women is because we have been civilized by our liberal, western upbringings. They discount the notion that we would ever fight back. Well, watch out! At some point civilized men are faced with nature’s inevitable choice when confronted with savages: Fight or Flee. I believe we will fight. And there is nothing as horrible as civilized savagery. Remember WWII.
And I say this with regret. Because then they will have won. We will surrender to savagery and isolationist policies. If I were a religious man, I would pray. I can only hope.
 
Written By: Peter
URL: http://
I dont know of any Muslim who likes this "clash of civilizations" theory.
You must be looking very hard to find one. See any random rant from bin Laden and friends.
There is nothing wrong with Islam...
To quote Mark Steyn:
There are many trouble spots around the world, but as a general rule, it’s easy to make an educated guess at one of the participants: Muslims vs. Jews in "Palestine," Muslims vs. Hindus in Kashmir, Muslims vs. Christians in Africa, Muslims vs. Buddhists in Thailand, Muslims vs. Russians in the Caucasus, Muslims vs. backpacking tourists in Bali.
...and it will never change to make Westerners happy.


Maybe not, but it better change to stop making Westerners infuriated. Otherwise, it may very well ignite a conflagration that no one wants, but that Islam may very well suffer the worst from.

 
Written By: Billy Hollis
URL: http://
I think a honorable solution would be to ban the image and likeness of all Islamic figures.

Sort of makes you would what Al-Jazeera will fill all that dead air with.
 
Written By: Neo
URL: http://
An important point than almost everyone in the west seems to miss, is that Islam has a tradition of violent retribution against blasphemers as an obligatory religious duty that can be traced back to the direct orders of Mohammad himself.

Here is an interesting post found on an islamic website that I saw at the Jawa report:
At the time of the Messenger Muhammad (saw) there were individuals like these who dishonoured and insulted him upon whom the Islamic judgement was executed. Such people were not tolerated in the past and throughout the history of Islam were dealt with according to the Shariah. Ka’ab ibn Ashraf was assassinated by Muhammad ibn Maslamah for harming the Messenger Muhammad (saw) by his words, Abu Raafi’ was killed by Abu Ateeq as the Messenger ordered in the most evil of ways for swearing at the prophet, Khalid bin Sufyaan was killed by Abdullah bin Anees who cut off his head and brought it to the prophet for harming the Messenger Muhammad (saw) by his insults, Al-Asmaa bintu Marwaan was killed by Umayr bin Adi’ al-Khatmi, a blind man, for writing poetry against the prophet and insulting him in it, Al-Aswad al-Ansi was killed by Fairuz al-Daylami and his family for insulting the Messenger Muhammad (saw) and claiming to be a prophet himself. This is the judgement of Islam upon those who violate, dishonour and insult the Messenger Muhammad
These assasinations and many more were ordered by Mohammad and chronicled in several Hadiths. For many Muslims, accaptance of these publishers going unpunished would be similar to a christian accepting the ressurection never happened. Denmark demanding muslims accept this form of free speech is as if the world demanded Catholics to refrain from holy communion.
 
Written By: Jimmy the Dhimmi
URL: http://mooreisfatduhimstoopidilikeanncoulterandchickenfries.ytmnd.com/
An important point than almost everyone in the west seems to miss, is that Islam has a tradition of violent retribution against blasphemers as an obligatory religious duty that can be traced back to the direct orders of Mohammad himself.
Well I’d suggest that while that may find some acceptance in a Muslim society, it’s not going to fly in a secular European (or western) society ... and that brings us straight back, front and center, with a huge clash of cultures.
 
Written By: McQ
URL: http://www.qando.net/
This opinion piece by Niall Ferguson is a little breathless, and I’m not sure I agree with it, but it is one way of looking at the problem.

The origins of the Great War of 2007 - and how it could have been prevented
 
Written By: Marlin
URL: http://
Cindy, Janet Jackson had nothing to do with religion and everything to do with decency. America tolerates the objectification of women, but not in front of 30 million children, at least not yet.
 
Written By: Nuclear
URL: http://
You could’ve filed this post under Van Gogh, Theo and you’d have still been on point.

I find it to be a really strange moment though- we hear a lot about the arab street and how it’s the indicator, etc etc. Well anyone else find it amazing to realize that the "arab street" is making it’s presence felt on THIS as opposed to our Iraq policy?

There’s a lesson there I think but damned if I can make sense of it
 
Written By: shark
URL: http://
Yes, I think your observation that Europe may have awakened is a correct one. It may have already manifested itself in the German election, and the murders of Pim Fortuyn and Theo Van Gogh were certainly cathartic events also.

The American left, due no doubt to their incessant self-loathing, have come to view any non-Anglo culture as benign, completely harmless. The mainland Europeans, chief among them the Germans and French, have somehow maintained their right to loathe ANY culture EXCEPT THEIR OWN, so they can and will turn on the Muslims in very sudden and intense manner, in my opinion.

Continental Europeans have now discovered ridicule as a very potent weapon, and will use it to bring the Muslim-European rift to a head.
 
Written By: stickman
URL: http://axiomattic.blogspot.com
there is no point in denying that a clash of culture is occuring across the western world, the question if it is not too naive to ask is why so many people from islamic countries have come to settle in western countries, many at great risk to their personal safety, why do they stay here, what do they want.
 
Written By: paula sheridan
URL: http://
what an angry person you are, i was asking a genuine question because i am genuinely perplexed why so many people from islamic countries want to settle in non islamic countries which they then set about denouncing. of course they want jobs, education(for the males) and a better standard of life, why can that only be achieved using the infrastructure of western democratic society.
 
Written By: paula sheridan
URL: http://
Brandon I think you’re daft:
I think it’s unfair and self-congratulatory to act like Westerners won’t scrap liberty or separation of church and state in a heartbeat.

Really I remember how we repealed the 1st Amendment and then made Catholicsim the Official Church of the US. Soon thereafter we passed the "Nacht und Nabel" Statutes, too.
What would Mark Steyn have Europe do with its Muslims? Put them in camps? ...Why are they here and what do they want? Well, jobs. Safety. Same stuff you want! What do you think they want? The blood of unbaptised children?
Uh, how about behave as integrated members of their host societies? Remember Maplethorpe in Cincinnati, the Rightwing Zealots...FILED SUIT! Yes they filed suit...and they weren’t rioting and throwing folks out of the nations for the temerity of producing an offensive and obscene are show. Do you NOT see the difference? Mayhap you don’t. Mayhap to you ALL religious folks are the same, or are you one fo the folks Jim Lileks talks about who can see the threat that "Christians" are to the nation, but no one else?

I am sure they want jobs, but apparently they or a significant portion of them want the Sharia imposed too. So no they aren’t entirely like my Polish or Irish ancestors, they seem to want to have a good Islamic life here and they want me to have one too.
Thankfully, the unmitigated disaster in Iraq seems to have turned Americans against this kind of crypto-racist saber-rattling.
Yeah cause that Constitution/democracy thing sure has proven to be a disaster everywhere its been tried. How DARE the US move to liberate brown people from their own home-grown murderous, klepto-maniacal, dictatorship.
 
Written By: Joe
URL: http://
"An important point than almost everyone in the west seems to miss, is that Islam has a tradition of violent retribution against blasphemers as an obligatory religious duty that can be traced back to the direct orders of Mohammad himself."
I’m not sure anyone has missed this, after all wasn’t it the prime motive of the 9/11 attack? It’s precisely the problem that some of the faithful cannot reject this duty. If they continue to attempt to use force to punish the blasphemers they will be met with greater and greater force. That is of course, assuming people like Brandon remain out of power.

 
Written By: Unknown
URL: http://
(witness our zeal for flag-burning amendments)
I’m afraid that I missed the religious connection on that one.
 
Written By: Mark A. Flacy
URL: http://
"To the extent that westerners are more "civilized," it’s not because they don’t have creepy, irrational beliefs; it’s just that they don’t get out in the street and yell about it."
Actually, they do.

 
Written By: Unknown
URL: http://
I’m not sure anyone has missed this, after all wasn’t [violent retribution against blasphemers] the prime motive of the 9/11 attack?
No, it was retribution for U.S. foreign policy.
 
Written By: Ugh
URL: http://
Not all cultures are equal.
Similarly, not all religions are equal, either.
What would Mark Steyn have Europe do with its Muslims? Put them in camps?
No, I suspect a somewhat less bloodthirsty attitude wold be a nice start.
 
Written By: Bithead
URL: http://bitheads.blogspot.com
A clash of cultures, eh? One is characterized as being thick skinned with a soft heart. The other is thin skinned with a hard heart. I’ll let you figure out which is which.
 
Written By: Greg Abbott
URL: http://
"with the clear message that Christianity is an inherently barbarous and dangerous religion."

Where have you been hiding? We are already getting that message; e.g. don’t you even bother to read your own posts?
 
Written By: timactual
URL: http://
Why are they here and what do they want? Well, jobs. Safety. Same stuff you want! What do you think they want? The blood of unbaptised children?

Yeah, but they want it in a Sharia-law ruled state.

Or maybe you missed that part?

 
Written By: shark
URL: http://
I completely agree McQ. I find it frightening that otherwise intelligent people do things like equate ’a letter objecting to published content’ or a ’monetary fine for inappropriate sexual content’ with the very believable ’threat of death for published content’ (not just cartoons but published novels). The challenge isn’t will people complain or even take civilized action against that which they disagree - but will they attempt physical harm - Western society works to stop such actions the Islamists encourage it.

Similarlly there are those in the US who will attempt to prevent someone from smoking a cigarette or having a beer - but think it’s not right to prevent someone in another culture from murdering their daughter(s). Or those that will say that by not supporting Hamas after an election (even though we didn’t support them before the election) we are not supporting democracy (Krauthammer actually has a reasonably good column on this dichotomy - yes the implied backhand on that complement is intentional)

Fact is when this post properly notes a clash of cultures it refers not to isolated extremists but rather to how each culture Western and Islamic respond to those who advocate and carry out extreme actions. Westerners (Christians) voluntarily lock up their crazies - Islamists encourage them to go on suicide missions...

 
Written By: Bill
URL: http://
Brandon, that sentiment is present in the Christian culture you are denigrating, and absent from the one with which we contend.

Your ahistoricism is not surprise, it is consonant with the other views you have posted.

Yours, TDP, ml, msl, & pfpp
 
Written By: Tom Perkins
URL: http://
Chapter 19 of Leviticus:

33 When a foreigner resides with you in your land, you must not oppress him. 19:34 The foreigner who resides with you must be to you like a native citizen among you; so you must love him as yourself, because you were foreigners in the land of Egypt. I am the Lord your God.
I’m a little lost here, Brandon ... what has that to do with the secular governments of Europe and how they should react to a culture which seems bent on imposing itself on the existing culture?
 
Written By: McQ
URL: http://www.qando.net/
"Any guess as to how it will turn out?"
Ugh, they don’t speak Mongolian throughout Europe.
 
Written By: Notherbob2
URL: http://
I’m absolutly lost McQ... What do Danes and the Dutch have to do with each other?? You may want to correct your post to eliminate the onslaught of moonbats that are going to make fun of your geographic deficiencies.
 
Written By: JFH
URL: http://
"It is just silly to say that Muslim culture is somehow deeply flawed because it can cause similar eruptions of violence."
Not recognizing that the power imbalance between it and the culture it is antagonizing (our, maybe not yours Brandon) is however a flaw of some sort. Perhaps a thinking problem. And your Martin Luther King example is silly. The number of persons lynched or shot for supporting the African American civil rights movement is a few hundred tops over about 25 years. That’s as many as the much smaller Iran executes for not being Moslem enough in a year. The levels of violence and the degree to which it is endorsed by the larger society are simply not remotely similar.

And yes, the people in the South who were shooting at freedoms riders, for example, had the tacit approval of maybe 10% of the country, and the influence of their sort was waning. Moslem tolerance for the death of this cartoonist and say Salman Rushdie seems to be in the realm of about 70% or so, and the support for such sanctions seems to be growing these last 100 years.
"I just thought the Leviticus quote was interesting, because all this celebration of Christian/Western superiority and the suggestion that immigrants are a creeping threat that needs (in ominous tones) to be dealt with is itself a violation of a Christian teaching."
No it isn’t. You don’t know what Christian teaching is obviously.

Western Culture, to the degree it still exists despite the wrong turn taken by the Enlightenment during and after the French Revolution, is the superior culture on the planet. It’s tenets and common practices of law and civil society best fit the universal human nature. There isn’t celebration there, just acknowledgement of whom is desirous of emigrating to where on the planet, and usually why—it’s not because they are fooled, or evil, or unintelligent, or acquisitive. Migrants or natives who substantially want to change, by threat of force mind you, what has made that true are a threat, and sometimes not a creeping one. I think the 757 on 9/11 were at about 470kts, for example. Could be wrong on the airspeed.

The best example of Christian teaching as regards threat to your safety is this, ". . . he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one" Luke 22.36"

Awful isn’t it Brandon? An endorsement of both self defense and capitalism from the greatest philosopher the species has produced. He wasn’t Mohammed either.

Yours, TDP, ml, msl, & pfpp
 
Written By: Tom Perkins
URL: http://
Brandon,
Again you miss the point - yes Dr. King recieved death threats - but Western society recoils at the notion of death threats - even did 40+ years ago. Compare that with Mr. Rushdie who must be protected from Islamic society by Western Society - For a recent comparison, is Mr. Toles seeking asylum with Islamists based on his recent cartoon that was an insult to Western society, how about the author of "P*ss Christ"? While there are those individuals who would physically attack - Western society; our culture does not support the extremist position of misguided individuals.

(Note I feel the boycott of Dane products by Islamic society is perfectly acceptable - a day of hate and suggestions of beheading are not.)

Your argument in part supports the concern about this being a cultural clash. This even though Dr. King was an agent for societal change where as the Islamists look to execute those who such as Mr. Rushdie who don’t even seek to change their culture. Western culture does not support the separation of classes of people - Islamists with their Dhimmi and Kuffar make it a point that those who do not follow their model should be discriminated against and attacked if they do not bow before Islam. If Western society was like Islamist society Dr. Kings execution would have been celebrated not seen as a loss to society - sadly for Islamists your attempted comparison fails.

Regarding Immigration - the concern with Europe isn’t that people from Muslim culture have imigrated the truth is those people were welcomed like Asians and others of different cultures. The concern is that Muslims in particular have not looked at the culture they moved to and tried to incorporate key ideals like tolerance, freedom of speech and thought, etc. into their value system. The failure of this to occur is what is causing an issue - a clash of cultures.
 
Written By: Bill
URL: http://
How long has it been since Martin Luther King got death threats every day? Barely half a century. Watch the footage of the violence carried out against civil rights demonstrators in the South in the 60s. That was America, nearly 200 years since the founding, and still there was violent - FATAL - reaction against simple and straightforward demands for justice. It is just silly to say that Muslim culture is somehow deeply flawed because it can cause similar eruptions of violence

Holy sh*t, this is one of the saddest examples of moral equivilance I have ever seen.

You argue against your own point here. Both examples you give are from relatively not too long ago, and just look at the progress that has been made, whereas Islam is either unwilling or unable to progress. Islam isn’t "deeply flawed because it can cause similar eruptions of violence"- Islam is deeply flawed because they cannot MOVE BEYOND THOSE VIOLENT ERUPTIONS.

If you can’t or refuse to see that, you’re unworthy of any other comments from me save this one: If at the end of the day, radical Islam wins, as long as dhimmis like you are led shocked and bewildered to the chopping block first, it would almost be worth it.
 
Written By: shark
URL: http://
whereas Islam is either unwilling or unable to progress.
Islam is deeply flawed because they cannot MOVE BEYOND THOSE VIOLENT ERUPTIONS

"Islam" is? Every one of its adherents? And it’s all the religion’s fault, no influence of culture? Unable to be changed? Funny, I’ve known a few Muslims, and none of them ever tried to chop off my head, even though I was acting pretty flagrantly western in front of them. Maybe their evil religion hadn’t quite finished worming its way into their brains yet.
 
Written By: kenB
URL: http://
kenB -

I’m glad you’ve known moderate muslims, Fantastic! I just wish we could see them in the masses taking back their religion from the radicals.

 
Written By: Monica
URL: http://
What do Danes and the Dutch have to do with each other??
Not much JFH ... my goof, since corrected. Thanks for pointing it out.
 
Written By: McQ
URL: http://www.qando.net/
Brandon,

I’m going to move into your neighborhood, force you to wear a yellow sash around your waist to indicate your non-muslim status, extort money from you because you are a non-muslim, demand lodging in your house for 3 days if I so desire, tear down your house if it is taller than mine, order you to relinquish your seat to me if we are in public, and kill you if you proselytize against islam or insult religion in general.

This is my religion and you better tolerate it. How dare you dodge my blows as I beat you for wearing green-colored clothes!!! You are discriminating against my right to practice my religion!!

Read about it here. Remember, Omar was to Mohammad as St. Peter was to Jesus.
 
Written By: Jimmy the Dhimmi
URL: http://mooreisfatduhimstoopidilikeanncoulterandchickenfries.ytmnd.com/
Islam is a religion of murderous backward thinking punk-bitches. May they all burn in hell!!!!
 
Written By: islam sucks
URL: http://
I just wish we could see them in the masses taking back their religion from the radicals.

Where are you looking? There are more hopeful signs these days than there have been in the last couple of decades, though granted there’s still a ways to go. It certainly doesn’t help anything when people like some of the folks here treat the most extreme elements as if they spoke for all Muslims, or suggest that there’s some sort of inevitable link between Islam and intolerance — when they do that, they’re standing hand in hand with the radical mullahs who say that moderate Muslims aren’t "real" Muslims.

Anyway, as Brandon suggested above, if you really think that Islam is incapable of reform, then what’s the next logical step? Gotta get rid of them all, right?
 
Written By: kenB
URL: http://
Islam is a religion of blankety-blank-blanks. May they all burn in blank!!!!
Uncalled for and impolite, and adds nothing to the discussion but hate. I support your right to say this, though, and I won’t call for your execution.
 
Written By: equitus
URL: http://sdparadigm.blogger.com
It’s a war for cultural keeps. Any guess as to how it will turn out?
Who but Jimmy Carter has ever thought they would be on the losing side of culture war?

That said I know a moderate muslim too. Moderate in that he thinks all western girls are whores, but wouldn’t say it to their faces. He was slightly worried that we were using rabbit skins in one of our labs, but somehow refrained from killing the TA over it (He made his parter do all the work). On the plus side he misses home (Dubai), and plans on going back. Perhap he can convice some of his friends to chill out a bit.

The point remains thought that there are decent people in every crazy society. Look at Erwin Rommel. Is it enough that the Turks and the Jordanians are by large good people, if the Iranians and the Syrains remain largely nuts? I would say we have to fight this war, and the good people will understand (they’re mostly as turned off by the craziness as we are).
 
Written By: Joe Canadian
URL: http://
I’ve been saying for a long while, McQ, that the entire issue was culture.. and in more than this.

And some of the responses we see here further the point.

 
Written By: Bithead
URL: http://bitheads.blogspot.com
A clash of civilizations would require two civilizations. I see only one, and it’s not the one throwing rocks.

In general, when people are this outraged about minutia, we tend to say, "Grow up! Get over yourself!" They, in turn, knowing that they are life’s losers and wanting more respect than that entails, want to throw rocks.
 
Written By: Arnold Williams
URL: http://notebuyer.livejournal.com
I’ve been saying for a long while, McQ, that the entire issue was culture.. and in more than this.
So what do you want a ribbon and a "great job, Brownie", er "Bithead" or something?

So have I. So what?
 
Written By: McQ
URL: http://www.qando.net/
Anybody here who thinks that they get honest news about Islam from the Media is a fool.
 
Written By: news
URL: http://
"what’s the next logical step? Gotta get rid of them all, right? "
No. Don’t be absurd.


I once knew a moderate nazi. Nice guy. I suspect that when he got together with his buddies he was not so moderate, and if he and his buds ever came to power, I am pretty damn sure all that moderation would vanish.
 
Written By: timactual
URL: http://
I am also pretty sure that a lot of clansmen were nice, friendly, polite, upstanding citizens until they got together at night and put on those robes.
 
Written By: timactual
URL: http://
Anyway, as Brandon suggested above, if you really think that Islam is incapable of reform, then what’s the next logical step? Gotta get rid of them all, right

That’s totally up to them, isn’t it? They can foul their own nests and live in misery if they want, but if they continue to take it to the civilized world, then what happens next is on their heads.
 
Written By: Shark
URL: http://
I can understand how some people can become squeamish when discussing a religion and some of the more fundamentalist believers in it and what to do about it. Especially when it is an "ethnic" religion which makes a lot of Americans and Europeans uncomfortable to criticize due to our colonial pasts and fear of being seen as racist. But, fundamentalist Islam needs to be discussed and it is a problem.

Keep in mind on Sept. 10, 2001, the bulk of Al Qaeda’s forces, thousands strong, were not in Gaza and the West Bank fighting for Palestine. Nope. They were in Islamic Afghanistan fighting fellow muslims to create an ideologically pure Islamic state under the Taliban. Kind of makes you wonder why they keep claiming oppression by the West and how Palestine is their main goal...sure those are on The List, but this is an ideology first and a historical grievance second.

And, appeasing them in one area, say passing laws banning perceived insults to their religion, will only mean new and improved grievances will come up...like Bin Laden talking about East Timor being wrested from muslim Indonesia (East Timor is 99% Catholic...)

I met a muslim fundamentalist in 1992 in an bookstore in Indonesia. (He approached me.) Since we were having the Gulf War I wasn’t too keen to discuss anything political, but actually he only wanted me to answer one question, "Are the Chinese the Jews of Asia?"

Do you see where he was going?



 
Written By: Harun
URL: http://
I’m a little lost here, Brandon ... what has that to do with the secular governments of Europe and how they should react to a culture which seems bent on imposing itself on the existing culture? Written By: McQ
I’m a little lost here, McQ...why do you expect the Palestinians to allow the Jews to steal their farms, homes, and land-imposing themselves on the existing culture? Hasn’t happened yet in 57 years.
 
Written By: Sara
URL: http://
Does anyone remember the good ole days when France was concerned—and Jose Bove was destroying McDonalds—that blue jeans, coca cola, and rock ’n roll was going to destroy French culture? Yeah, rock ’n roll:
Sharia baby, sharia baby, can you come out tonight,
(Why don’t you come out) With your red dress on
(Come out) Mmm you look so fine
(Comeout) Move it nice and easy
Girl, you make me lose my mind
 
Written By: tom scott
URL: http://
So have I. So what?
My... touchy, aren’t we?

It’s called "agreement". I’m simply saying, "You’re right Bruce, I’ve always thought the same thing".
 
Written By: Bithead
URL: http://bitheads.blogspot.com
My... touchy, aren’t we?
Actually I was being a bit sarcastic. Speaking of being touchy, I shoulda put a smiley face with it I guess.
 
Written By: McQ
URL: http://www.qando.net/
Ah.
My bad, then.

 
Written By: Bithead
URL: http://bitheads.blogspot.com
Some of the excuses made for the Islamofascists(notice that I capitalized it out of respect) are that they are fighting for the Palestinians and/or others who are oppressed; they just want justice and their rights. I am reminded of the Communists. They, too, always had an excuse that they were fighting colonialism and exploitation and that they had limited goals. Even a cursory reading of history and of Communist ideology exposed, however, the fact that what their true objective was/is universal domination. The struggle(jihad?) would not cease until the entire world was Communist. I suspect that any extensive study of Islam would reveal the same objective. Before I am called a bigot, I would like to add that Christianity also has a similar objective. The devil is in the details, though. I would much rather face a Jehovah’s witness knocking on my front door than have some Islamic "missionary" blow it down. Perhaps it is a matter of ends and means; I don’t think the ends justify the means.
etc.
 
Written By: timactual
URL: http://
Some of the excuses made for the Islamofascists(notice that I capitalized it out of respect) are that they are fighting for the Palestinians and/or others who are oppressed; they just want justice and their rights
Anybody making that claim doesn’t understand the way the Muslim world works. Specifically, they are suffering under the illusion that all cultures are equal. The fact of the matter is that in the Muslim world, the so-called Palestinians are on about the same scale with the Kurds in terms of relative social class. The only reason anybody’s identifying with them at all is they’re a useful tool against the west.
 
Written By: Bithead
URL: http://bitheads.blogspot.com
Some of the excuses made for the Islamofascists(notice that I capitalized it out of respect) are that they are fighting for the Palestinians and/or others who are oppressed; they just want justice and their rights. Written By: timactual

Actually, the identification with the Palestinians is worldwide by 1.3 billion Muslims. The sooner we understand that the sooner the "problem" can be finally solved.
 
Written By: Seth
URL: http://
Islamic reform or at least one gen0cide and possibly more. There are no other long-term options.
 
Written By: Jeff Medcalf
URL: http://www.caerdroia.org/blog
I think it is a clash of cultures, but it is not against Islam. It is militant fundamentalist Islam against everybody.

To win this conflict militant Islam needs to convince the Muslim world that it is us against them and to convince everybodyelse that Islam and militant Islam are one in the same. They do this by providing free tuition to poor children throughout the Muslim world and running clinics in slums and providing a voice for the disaffected in dictatorships. They do this by providing religious guidance to communities in the West, giving money and providing teachers who are there to save the children of immigrants from corruption. By killing people in the name of Mohanmmed.

To destroy militant Islam we need to target the source of the funding for these schools and clinics and religious guidance counsellors and terrorists. We need to target wahabist Saudi Arabia.

Other options of committing genocide against muslim communities or forced reformation/conversion of 1,300,000,000 people are very difficult and unnecessary at this early stage.
 
Written By: unaha-closp
URL: http://warisforwinning.blogspot.com/
It strikes me that in order to have a clash of cultures, first you have to have more than one culture.
 
Written By: Pete Jensen
URL: http://
"Actually, the identification with the Palestinians is worldwide by 1.3 billion Muslims. The sooner we understand that the sooner the "problem" can be finally solved"

Color me stupid, but you are going to have to explain to me what your link, an interview with a Palestinian "urban planner" has to do with worldwide identification with Palestinians. Anyway, as your link also says, there are other excuses for anti-western anger, which will exist even if the Palestinians and Israelis kiss and make up. And if those excuses vanish, others will be discovered.
 
Written By: timactual
URL: http://
Anyway, as your link also says, there are other excuses for anti-western anger, which will exist even if the Palestinians and Israelis kiss and make up. And if those excuses vanish, others will be discovered. Written By: timactual

Israel can prove you wrong by removing all those illegal "Jewish settlements" on Palestinian land. Lemme know when that happens and we can revisit your premise then.
 
Written By: Seth
URL: http://

 
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