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Tom Cruise and the Wacky Cult of Scientology
Posted by: Jon Henke on Thursday, March 16, 2006

I don't normally do pop culture blogging. In fact, I can't name more than a handful of movies or hit songs from this year, professional athletes, or who, exactly, won this past years Super Bowl/WorldSeries/NBA Championship...and I like it that way. But this Tom Cruise Scientology thing irks me, so let's rant. Via Andrew Sullivan, I see Tom Cruise is even more weird than usual...
Sources from inside Paramount and South Park Studios report that parent company Viacom pulled last night's scheduled repeat of the high-rated "Trapped in the Closet" episode after the humorless Scientologist movie star Tom Cruise threatened to cancel all publicity for Mission Impossible:3 if Comedy Central aired the episode that satirizes Scientology and mocks his sexuality again.
Tom Cruise's sexual preferences are of negligible moment to me. His serial Actress PR (Public Relations-ships), however, fall somewhere between awkward and creepy.

I'm more intrigued by his recent public bout of positively missionary Scientology — and by Scientologists, in general. Let's face it, even by the standards of semi-obscure Cults, Scientology is weird. Is it a religion? A philosophy? A self-help program? A science? (hint: No!)

Scientology is a riddle, wrapped in an enigma, wrapped in a scam. And practiced, apparently, by quite a lot of wealthy celebrities. In fairness, with luxurious resorts around the world and a cruise ship, Scientology does offer a lot of very nice earthly benefits that you just don't get from your mainstream kooky cults. I mean, sure, followers of Jim Jones got a trip to exotic Guyana and free drinks, but Scientology has more return business.

But a lot of that return business certainly does come across as...well, business. With Tom Cruise threatening economic sanctions against Viacom for South Park's parody of Scientology, Isaac Hayes quitting South Park, er, allegedly, for their "bigotry toward religious beliefs" (Note: by "bigotry toward religious beliefs", he means "I can dish it, but I can't take it"), and the well-known tendency of Scientology to file nuisance lawsuits to quash criticism — i.e., barratry. ("the purpose of the suit is to harass and discourage rather than to win"—L. Ron Hubbard) Indeed, and in the interests of full disclosure, my own father's ministry has been sued by the "Church" of Scientology and even given "a detailed description making it appear that Scientologists or agents of the church may have gained access to Watchman Fellowship's Texas office without our knowledge."

I digress.

So, Tom Cruise. I used to think that, as far as pop culture actors went, Tom Cruise was a fairly good one. And perhaps he still is. But today, it's hard to see anything but Tom Cruise acting the fool on Oprah, Dr. Tom Cruise lecturing Matt Lauer on psychiatry (did you know he's read stuff about it? That makes him an expert!) or Tom Cruise lying through his teeth to Der Spiegel.

My wife has commented on Cruise recently, too. Apparently, she can't bear to watch him now, either. Something about the Public Relations-ships, the wacky, mysterious quasi-religion and the permanent forced cheerfulness have turned what used to be a pleasant, attractive Movie Star into something more like that Chotchkie's waiter guy from Office Space. (37 pieces of Flair!)

No larger point, really. The whole thing has just irked me for awhile now. Rant over.

UPDATE (Dale): A few months ago, when The Lovely Christine and I were taking pictures in LA, we spent an afternoon on Hollywood, going up and down taking pictures. Scientology has an unusual number of buildings all down Hollywood. Some of them, like the old National Bank building, are architectural treasures. But, as soon as anyone saw us taking pictures, Scientology staffers in thier Navy slacks and Light-blue button-downs, would come out onto the sidewalk, and immediately accost us, demanding to know who we were, and why we were taking pictures.

Being a tactful sort, of course, I always attempted to defuse such encounters by explaining that I was an American citizen, standing on a public thoroughfare, and that, as such, I was taking pictures of whatever the f*ck I wanted to take pictures of.

Because I try to, you know, reach out to people.

I don't like being accosted, especially in circumstances like that. It's creepy, and odd.

Then, there's this, from the New York Daily News:
Did someone get to Isaac Hayes? Scientologist Hayes was the voice of Chef on "South Park," but just quit the Comedy Central hit, citing "intolerance and bigotry toward religious beliefs." Only last December, Hayes went on Opie & Anthony's XM Radio show and didn't mind a recent episode ridiculing Tom Cruise and Scientology. "One thing about Matt [Stone] and Trey [Parker], the "South Park" creators], they lampoon everybody, and if you take that s— serious, then I'll sell you the Brooklyn Bridge for $2." I ain't buying.
So, last week, Issac Hayes was all, "Hey, it's freaking satire! Grow up!" Today, he's like, "It's religious bigotry, man!"

Again, creepy.

So, here's the deal for Scientologists: If you don't want people to think you're a creepy, whacky cult, then maybe the first step is to stop acting so creepy and whacky. After all, sometimes, when people respond negatively to you, it's not because they're bigots.

It's because you're an a**hole.

UPDATE: [Jon Henke]

Andrew Sullivan
has the Parker and Stone [South Park creators] response....
"So, Scientology, you may have won THIS battle, but the million-year war for earth has just begun! Temporarily anozinizing our episode will NOT stop us from keeping Thetans forever trapped in your pitiful man-bodies. Curses and drat! You have obstructed us for now, but your feeble bid to save humanity will fail! Hail Xenu!!!

- Trey Parker and Matt Stone, servants of the dark lord Xenu."
Sadly, as silly as that response is, it's not really a caricature; it's a reasonable representation of what Scientologists actually believe.
 
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Previous Comments to this Post 

Comments
You forgot to mention Tom Cruise’s lack of judgment — he gave up Nicole Kidman for Penelope Cruz. Penelope’s undoubtedly a nice woman....but she is no Nicole!
 
Written By: RAZ
URL: http://
If you want some actual facts, go to WWW.DREXUN.ORG and read "Scientology vs. Psychiatry" (right-hand side navigational links).

Cruise caused massive interest and discussion about what psych drugs actually do. Result? The FDA now requires Black Box Warning health warning labels on many psych drug packages and more than 400,000 FEWER prescriptions of Ritalin have been filled. Ritalin is a Class 2 drug, the same category as cocaine.

Find out what’s really behind Scientology and a $1.6 TRILLION a year industry.

David M Barrington
WWW.DREXUN.ORG
 
Written By: David M Barrington
URL: http://www.drexun.org
And, immediately, the scientologists pop up with their own web site link.

That was fast.
 
Written By: Dale Franks
URL: http://www.qando.net
I’ve never met Tom Cruise but have been humored by the past years ridicule of him. The media ridicule seems mostly someone lying while another swears to it. Anyone who has actually met or worked with Cruise only has nice things to say about him, probably because he is genuinely a nice and decent guy. Similarly anyone actually familiar with Scientology or a Scientologist only has nice things to say about it or them (excluding those few too horrified at the thought of another actually helping another). Cruise and Scientology seem fine and decent. The ones doing the criticizing clearly have issues – decent people usually succeed. The criticism remains humorous – mostly lying while another swears to it.
 
Written By: GRW
URL: http://
Bah - Scientologiophobia nothing more.
 
Written By: Unaha-closp
URL: http://
Something about the Public Relations-ships, the wacky, mysterious quasi-religion and the permanent forced cheerfulness have turned what used to be a pleasant, attractive Movie Star into something more like that Chotchkie’s waiter guy from Office Space. (37 pieces of Flair!)
"You know, the Nazis had pieces of flair that they made the Jews wear."
 
Written By: Dale Franks
URL: http://www.qando.net
Hi John;

Sorry you had a bad experience with some Scientology staffers. That thing with the photos. Bummer, and I agree, it comes off odd.
I’m not going to make excuses. But I’m guessing they’re just concerned about reporters, so they probably came out to find out which paper you were with.
Whatever. I’m not saying it makes it right.

But that’s not really something to found an opinion of all Scientologists on. For example, if you wanted to take a picture of me and my family, I’d smile and say "cheese" (my Dad is a professional photographer, so all his kids are natural hams.)

Most of what makes us seem wacky/weird are news stories that greatly distort what we’re all about. Sure, we believe Man is an immortal, spiritual being. Sure, we believe there’s been civilizations before Earth. So? Christians believe in Angels and in Eden.

It’s easy for cynical reporters to twist stuff about any religion. You could say that Christians engage in cannibalistic rituals every Sunday, in memory a carpenter who could walk on water. You could say that Jewish folk believe they’re descendants of a man who nearly burned his own son alive because he heard voices in his head. That paints a lopsided picture, does it not?

Ridiculing and mocking a religion is easy to do from the outside looking in. But better than giving in to such provincialism, one could bother to ask, to learn, to comprehend. (I’m not saying become ’convert’, I’m saying *understand*.)
Also, you probably would not think us wacky or weird as we volunteered by the thousands, for weeks at a time,in Mississippi, handing out water, food and succor to hurricane survivors. Scientologist nurses were giving penicilin shots, Scientologist doctors were there for medical help, and the rest of us volunteers cut down branches so that people could access their homes, distributed supplies, cleaned up buildings such as schools and old-folks homes, etc.

Now, about Tom Cruise:
He may come accross a bit strong.
But you know what? He had the courage to take a stand for what he believs, which is, American kids should not all be medicated. And, for the sake of the children’s wellfare, he risked ridicule and media attacks. I admire that.

Incidentally, did you happen to notice that Dr. Joseph Glenmullen MD, Professor of Psychiatry at Harvard Medical, was on the Today Show one week afer the Cruise/Lauer debate, and said Cruise was correct in that there’s no proof of a chemical imbalance, and that we ARE overdiagnosing our kids, and that these drugs have suicidal tendencies as side-effects?

Did you know two weeks after Cruise’s appearance on the Today show, the FDA started requiring black-box warnings on all Ritalin bottles, stating the side-effects?

All this media slack against Tom Cruise is not accidental. It is PR payback by the Big Pharma industry, trying to neutralize him for his stance.

Here are some non-Scientologists who happen to agree:
Dr. Block, general practitioner
Dr. Baughman, neurologist
Dr. Breggin, psychiatrist

Also see http://www.drugawareness.org

None of these folks are Scientologists.

Or what about this lady’s article on ADHD-drug related deaths?

And they all agree, the Drug Industry is out of control and needs to be reeled in.

I find it interesting that every time a Bill is proposed by Scientologists to curtail the power of Big Pharma, the media attacks spring up ridiculing my religion. (Currently we have two such Bills before Congress: HR 1213, and HR 1477, I believe in Arizona.)

Sincerely,
Greg Churilov
http://www.liveandgrow.org
 
Written By: Greg Churilov
URL: http://www.liveandgrow.org
Jon and Dale,
Nice work on this post, you know you’ve done a excellant job when the scientologists come out of the woodwork and try to legitimize some of the craziness. It reminds me of a lot of the arguments that Orac gets from the antivaccine and alternative medicine crowd. Until they can prove to me, in some sort of double blind clinical trial that mental illness really is caused by beings from outer space, I think I’ll chock it up to quackery, or the flying spaghetti monster.
PS: I’m a huge fan of the podcast, keep up the good work.
 
Written By: D. Loy
URL: http://www.madveterinarian.blogspot.com
Sorry you had a bad experience with some Scientology staffers. That thing with the photos. Bummer, and I agree, it comes off odd.
I’m not going to make excuses. But I’m guessing they’re just concerned about reporters, so they probably came out to find out which paper you were with.
Whatever. I’m not saying it makes it right.

But that’s not really something to found an opinion of all Scientologists on.
First, it was me who had the photo experience, not Jon. Whose name, by the way, is spelled "J-O-N".

So, thanks for being so attentive to the content of the post.

Second, the whole point is not whether all Scientologists are whack jobs, or whether Scientology’s core views are notably more outlandish than other forms of religion, or whether individual Scientologists are good people.

The only is whether Scientology, as an organization has a distinctly creepy side.

The people who accosted me on a public street in Los Angeles were Scientology employees. Scientology is famed throughout the world for pressing lawsuits on critics at the slightest provocation. Scientology condemns the psychiatric industry for, among other things, being a "1.6 TRILLION a year industry", while, at the same time, being nearly impenetrable in its own finances, despite having real estate holdings alone valued in the billions of dollars—the profit motive, apparently, not being a disqualifying ethical bar to the organization—and charging thousands of dollars to its members for a variety of services.

So, it is completely immaterial that Scientologists flew out to New Orleans, or that Scientologists may be right about Ritalin. But, unless you believe that an organzation must be totally wrong in all things to be condemned, pointing out that Scientology does some good things simply isn’t dispositive, any more than it is to point out that Adolf Hitler was a firm beleiver in personal temperance and was famously kind to animals.

Nor is the sincerity of the beliefs of Scientologists of any particular usefulness. Sincerity is morally neutral. Orville Faubus and Lester Maddox were sincere in their beliefs about segregation. Sincerity is a measure of zeal, not morality.

To the extent that Scientology is criticized, it is not because the believers are bad people who beleive odd things, but because the organization itself has a long history of working in in very odd and creepy ways.

So, to sum up your post, you offered no answer for the creepy personal experience that I had with Scientology employees, and the remainder of your comment was a justification for things that I didn’t criticize.

In short, you offered a pleasant little school of red herrings.
 
Written By: Dale Franks
URL: http://www.qando.net
Jeez, this is creepy. 3 scientologists immediately popped up on your blog to try to project a good impression of their cult. They must have rooms of people googling for scientology all day.

One writes: The ones doing the criticizing clearly have issues – decent people usually succeed.

Yes, the classic scientologist defense. Even though we gave all our savings to a cult, we’re not insane, our critics are! After all, only the profoundly maladjusted and meanspirited could criticize a paragon of goodness like Scientology.
 
Written By: Al
URL: http://
Usually, this site picks fights with liberals/Dems/non-Bush cultists. Ineffectual adversaries.

Now this site has picked a fight with a real force. May God (whatever he means to you) have mercy on your souls.
 
Written By: mkultra
URL: http://
Find out what’s really behind Scientology
Why is it that Scientology proselytizers always come across a bit like AMWAY distributors? Oh, right. Because the introduction is free, but you have to pay to play.
Anyone who has actually met or worked with Cruise only has nice things to say about him
I’m sure Cruise has many redeeming qualities. In fact, I never disputed that at all, so I’m not entirely sure why you’ve rallied to the defense of Cruise’s charming personality. In any event, thanks for the information. I’ll take it into consideration the next time I see him raving about his Shiny New Religion that gets rid of those bad alien souls than infest us all.
I find it interesting that every time a Bill is proposed by Scientologists to curtail the power of Big Pharma, the media attacks spring up ridiculing my religion.
That doesn’t mean there’s a conspiracy. Sometimes people are ridiculed because they’re misunderstood geniuses, sure. But sometimes they just deserve ridicule. C’mon, Body Thetans? Xenu?

Be honest. Scientology is just a parody of religion, isn’t it? A massive in-joke for the post-mystical?
I’m a huge fan of the podcast, keep up the good work.
Hey, thanks!
 
Written By: Jon Henke
URL: http://www.QandO.net
Now this site has picked a fight with a real force. May God (whatever he means to you) have mercy on your souls.
Yeah, and we want you to represent us in the law suit. Pro bono of course.
 
Written By: McQ
URL: http://www.qando.net/
Find out what’s really behind Scientology
Sorry, I dont have that kind of money.

Im going to have to agree with some other people here that its a little creepy with all these scientologists coming out of the woodwork. Much less that they offered defenses of scientology that have nothing to do with the complaints in the post. A little too fomulaic methinks. "You don’t get rich writing science fiction. If you want to get rich, you start a religion." -L. Ron Hubbard
 
Written By: Chris
URL: http://
The reason Scientology has succeeded and been expanding as well and fast as it has is because it works and works very well. That is Scientology’s redeeming quality and why it will continue to expand and do as well. As an engineer it is not so much my belief that two plus two equals four; it is simply that it works – similarly with Scientology. Jon you say Scientology irks you, well if swearing to another’s lies about it makes you personally feel righteous it is really your issue and not Scientology’s. Critics come, critics go things that work well stay around – get over it.
 
Written By: GRW
URL: http://
if swearing to another’s lies about it makes you personally feel righteous it is really your issue and not Scientology’s
Can you point out which lies I have sworn to?
 
Written By: Jon Henke
URL: http://www.QandO.net
The reason Scientology has succeeded and been expanding as well and fast as it has is because it works and works very well.
The reason Social Security has succeeded and been expanding as well and fast as it has is because it works and works very well.
 
Written By: Mark A. Flacy
URL: http://
Social security does not work well and clearly won’t stand the test of time.

Anyway.

It would be much easier to list any thing original, useful or decent that JON shared …



Certainly a short list that one. Okay to humor you with a few of your doozies…

“Scientology is a riddle, wrapped in an enigma, wrapped in a scam”. Hubbard was a writer and as such he wrote, his books on Scientology are available in most libraries in most languages (did you know he is the most translated author on the planet). His writings are very clear, easy to grasp and available. Hardly a riddle, an enigma or a scam. These are your issues not Scientology’s

“Cruise threatening economic sanctions against Viacom for South Park’s parody”. I’m sure many will be swearing to this lie. Of course you know this to be true because someone said someone somewhere at sometime may have thought this so obviously it is the truth – why not swear to it as true?

Really Jon get over your issues and deal with a shred of reality and what is and what is not. Simply because you where able to think a thought or read what another had thought hardly makes it a truth.

I’m signing off so you can continue grinding that awfully sharp ax of yours – good luck man.
 
Written By: GRW
URL: http://
There are lots of ways to point out the limitations of scientology. But the core of it is, "Do they really live up to the supernatural promises they make in their literature?" These promises range from IQ raised one point per hour of auditing to eventual control, knowingly and at will over matter, energy, space time, life and thought? And let us remember that these claims are for the here and now, not in some scientology heaven.

The claims are from the founder of the organization for goodness sakes.

When they can’t live up to the claims, and they charge large sums of money (fixed donations) so that their followers can achieve them, what do we call that?

 
Written By: Fred from Feenix
URL: http://
"Similarly anyone actually familiar with Scientology or a Scientologist only has nice things to say about it or them."

That is an outright lie.

http://www.xenu.net

Start there. Work your way through the links to find some of the most horrifying stories you’ve ever read in your life about abuses you will hardly believe still occur in Western civilization. Scientology is not a religion. I’ve got no complaints with their beliefs, as silly as I may find them. It’s their actions and abuses that I take exception to. It’s a crime syndicate founded by a racist, sexist, wife-beating megalomaniac who has openly said he only started it to make money. Don’t believe anything the hacks above tell you.

The fact that I feel I MUST post this anonymously to avoid their retributions against even their mildest critics should speak very loudly. I don’t want to open up my mailbox and find a rattle snake in it. They have literally done things like this to people.

 
Written By: Xenu
URL: http://
OK.. we could sit here arguing all day.. OR you can all read this quote off the scientology website and end this discussion right now.

This is NOT taken out of context:

"More than 1 million Americans have died under psych "treatment." How many around the world have been killed by terrorists trained by psychiatrists?"

Yes, I understand there claiming that Osama is using the tools of a psychiatrists to make people follow him, but that happens ever day by everyone. Every religion uses mind tricks to make you believe. If they didnt everyone would be an athiest and just accept life and death as what they are.. natural and inevitable. All religions are based in an unfortunatly common trait of human nature, "People are Stupid" and they love a good story. How long do you figure it would have taken for david blane to rule the world if he was back in the year of christ.(another south park ep)

I guess what im really trying to say is that all people that follow religion.. and I mean REALLY follow it, to the point they would die or kill for it, are ignorant misguided and unhappy. Humans follow a hierarchal structure of rule. There are the lowly peasants and people who rule them and some one above him and some one above him all they way up to King, President, Emperor. However the people dont want the top rung to be a man in a castle who is able to control there lives immediately and profoundly. They do not want a different leader ever 4 years or even every 40. So they made up God. He is above all kings, he never comes down and inforces new tariffs/taxes and hes not real so he stays in office forever, building a reputation. Is it useless to try and quell people away from their religion? Not always. There should always be a little part of a person that knows its all Bullsh|t. And speaking of, one of my favorite quotes, from Penn Gilette.

"The Bible, dont read it to find a moral code, read it because we need more athiests, And nothing will get you there faster then reading the damned bible"
 
Written By: Humantologist
URL: http://video.google.com
Why media are blaming Cruise? It is like the church of scientology and David miscavidge don’t exist!

" A rep for Comedy Central, asked if Cruise was responsible for the "Closet" episode being yanked, attributed it instead to Hayes’ resignation, saying, "In light of the events of earlier this week, we wanted to give Chef an appropriate tribute by airing two episodes he is most known for."

NAD, please CNN, take note, next time you want to talk about Tom Cruise:

"Notice of anti-scientology : By thus gesticulant Tom Cruise does nothing but obey its sect.This film makes fun well more of the methods of the scientology that are delirious of Tom the proselyte. What disturbs the scientology it is the fact of having dared to present at general public the hidden revelation, the higher and ultimate "knowledge" of the scientologists... (Oh ! sacrilege. Tom help us, please help !). Also since the diffusion of this episode of Southpark the cult of scientology does not cease losing followers. Increasingly many victims are disappointed by the lack of intellectual integrityof its leader, M. David Miscavige : "pseudo pope "of a pseudo church which claims to have 8’000’ 000 of faithful in the world ... but which refuses the mails of the anti-scientology. A quite sad church, a quite small man."

www.anti-scientologie.ch


Leave Tom Cruise alone now. He has a life.
 
Written By: maria
URL: http://
As long as Tom Cruise is shilling for that crime syndicate and potentially roping people into a cult that destroys lives and breaks up families by manipulating his celebrity, he deserves all the abuse he gets. Ultimately, he is a victim, yes. But he is also aiding in creating MORE victims by promoting the "church."

And don’t give me any of that bull honkey about Scientology not being any different from any other religion. When someone criticizes the Catholic Church, the Pope does not dispatch minions to ruin their life. The Church of England does not have its own intelligence unit to keep potentially harmful information on its members should it need to black mail them in the event they try to break from the organization. Presbyterians do not use slave labor so that a handful of their leadership can live like kings. Buddhist monks do not distribute web building software to their adherents that installs nanny programs that do not allow them to view web pages that are critical of their practices. I could go on and on.
 
Written By: Xenu
URL: http://
Wow, this is hilarious!

Hey Humantologist: More than 10 million cancer patients die while getting medical treatment. More than 10 million people died while Joseph Stalin ran the Soviet Union. Therefore, modern medicine is communism.

The bounds of your illogic are both hilarious and disturbing.

Dale hits the nail on the head when he talks about the creepiness factor here. The fact that you guys are all piling up in the comments section like this is kind of telling.

And you never did address the whole creepiness thing. If you’re so damn confident in your beliefs, why d’you have to be so pushy? Ease off, buddies. No one likes a missionary.
 
Written By: Adam
URL: http://sophistpundit.blogspot.com
Oh, and yeah, the money thing. That’s another thing that you guys don’t seem to want to talk about.

What kind of religion demands material payoffs for spiritual gain?

I’ll tell you the kind: a scam, generally. And I apologize for those true believers here, but if you don’t want your religion to look like a scam, then you shouldn’t be fighting so ardently on the behalf of something that will require money to learn about.
 
Written By: Adam
URL: http://sophistpundit.blogspot.com
Social security does not work well and clearly won’t stand the test of time.
Which was my point about Scientology.
 
Written By: Mark A. Flacy
URL: http://
Adam,
Ignoring direct questions that are uncomfortable is very typical of Scientologists. There’s no point in arguing with them. Their capacity for logic couldn’t fill a thimble.
 
Written By: Xenu
URL: http://
My word, have you guys forgotten the classic blunders?

1. Never draw to an inside straight.
2. Never get involved in a land war in Asia.
3. Never talk about Scientology, Noam Chomsky, Objectivism or the FairTax on your weblog.
 
Written By: Matt McIntosh
URL: http://conjecturesandrefutations.net
And of course, never go up against a Sicilian when death is on the line, but I think we all know that one.
 
Written By: Matt McIntosh
URL: http://conjecturesandrefutations.net
I love the lies Scientologists spew about their cult!
Like this one: "The reason Scientology has succeeded and been expanding as well and fast as it has is because it works and works very well."

Scientology has been "expanding" to 8 million members for the last 10 years, according to Scientology magazines and quotes from spokesclams.

The reality is that, while they’re buying up high profile buildings, they’re standing virtually empty. And that big Superpower building in Clearwater, Florida, you know, the town Scientology invaded and conquered? It’s still not finished, after 8 years.
Two years ago, the spokeclam handling that question stated that they’d collected enough "donations" to complete it. And yet, Scientologists are still getting letters begging them to donate to the SP building project!

You Scientologists can yammer all you want about the eevils of psych drugs and other social ills. Hey, Churilov, how bout that Jeremy Perkins, huh? His Scientology mommy kept feeding the poor, schizophrenic kid vitamins instead of real treatment, and on L. Ron Hubbard’s birthday, he stabbed her to death. 77 stab wounds! Yeah, Scientology really helped THAT family, didn’t it!

So tell us, Churilov, what does Scientology offer in place of psychiatric treatment?
Nothing, that’s what! You want to remove an effective tool for treating mental illness, and you offer nothing in place of it, because "Scientology is for the able." In other words, for people stupid enough to pay money for your stupid, useless courses!

Ever since Tom Cruise jumped the couch, Scientology has been getting the spanking it deserves in the media. Now say, "Thank you Xenu, may I have another?" Good day to you, Sir!
 
Written By: xenubarb
URL: http://
> Scientology is a riddle, wrapped in an enigma, wrapped in a scam.

You got it mostly right, the church of scientology is creepy - the same way snakes are creepy.

It is a scam, wraped in a cult, wraped in a "religion". The original scam was to charge "fees" and call them "donations" in order to avoid taxes. Their confesionals cost as much as $500 per hour and their results are highly questionable (running out "incidents" from millions of years ago). By the time a member wishes to depart their madness and dare to call it like it is, you then get to find out how much of its policies and your fees are used to protect a scam.


How is it that Scientology gets to call its business a "religion" and thereby avoid both financial scrutiny and taxes ?

How is it that Scientology treats it own membership to slave labor camps called RPFs without public outcries about human rights abuses ?

This scam exists because it calls itself a religion and people belive it to be so.

Z
 
Written By: zeeorger
URL: http://
Oh, even the offshoots of Scientology are pretty creepy. Check out the Avatar MLM "personal development" course offered by Harry Palmer, a former Scientology exective. His background is at www.scientology-kills.org/
 
Written By: Eldon
URL: http://www.avatarscam.com
Actually, they offer high doses of niacin as "treatment," which has been proven time and time again in reliable and irrefutable medical studies to actually be toxic in humans when taken at that level, along with long sessions in saunas, which has also been proven to be unhealthy.

When people under this "treatment" broke out in rashes and facial lesions from the large doses of niacin, that hack Hubbard would tell them it was because of the radiation leaving their bodies as a result of the regimen.
 
Written By: Xenu
URL: http://
Hi Dale,

Sorry for getting your name wrong.

I offer no justification for the creepy personal experience you had, since I personally agree that it was creepy and sucked. (I did offer an explanation, though, and I’m surprised you glossed over it.)
Still, I think the way you were treated was wrong, and I’m sorry that employees of my Church gave you a stupidly hard time.

I was not trying to offer red-herrings, but speak from my own experience. I don’t believe all that I wrote can be so flippantly dismissed, either.

In terms of Scientology being hermetic about its finances, that’s just a flagrant lie, since Scientology made all its papers fully available for the most extensive and lengthiest IRS audit in IRS history, and after three years of analyzing all aspects of Church finance the IRS found no wrong-doings, found that we are indeed a charitable organization, and granted us full tax exemption.

I agree with you that sincerity of beliefs is not a moral barometer, point well taken. But I do believe that good deeds do matter.

And I addressed in detail the point that many things can look creepy when viewed from the outside without much of a clue.

By the way, I’m not in a room full of anything, and I don’t work for the Church. Google has a feature where you can customize your own page, and populate it with your own interests. Therefore I get news about subjects that interest me, which is what made me see this thread. (Geez, talk about paranoia.)

Sincerely,
Greg Churilov
http://www.liveandgrow.org
 
Written By: Greg Churilov
URL: http://www.liveandgrow.org
And somebody brought up the Rehabilitation Project Force. Google it some time and see some of the horrific stuff that comes up. Stories like people being kept in dungeon-like basements force to work long hours in filthy conditions and forbidden to leave or shower more than once a week, sometimes for infractions as minor as questioning a single order of a "church" leader.
 
Written By: Xenu
URL: http://
Eldon, your hack attack on niacin lacks scientific backing, and you provide no evidence to back it up.

I’m a bit surprised that people would write such things about a vitamin, and meanwhile sit idly by while shrinks administer metamphetamine-like drugs to kids.

Have you seen the NY Detox project? Because that’s a widely successful detox project using Hubbard’s techniques, and firefighters who’ve done it rave about it.

Sincerely,
Greg Churilov
http://www.liveandgrow.org
 
Written By: Greg Churilov
URL: http://www.liveandgrow.org
Re: classic blunders.

Perhaps a fire-break could be created by starting threads about gun-control and that McDonalds coffee lawsuit? Whoops, I was looking under fire-storm. Never mind.
 
Written By: Ron Sharp
URL: http://home.primus.ca/~ronsharp/rfwstan.jpg
You want links and back up? Okay. Here you go:

Here.

Here.

Here.

Here.

Here.

Here.

Here’s a personal account of a former member and what they went through under the treatment.

If that’s not enough for you, feel free to Google to your heart’s content. There are thousands of links, though I doubt they’ll do any good. Arguing with a Scientologist is like trying to reason with a child with their hands over their ears screaming at the top of their lungs.
 
Written By: Xenu
URL: http://
As for the NY Detox Project, this is just a case of Scientology trying to manipulate people when they are weak. NYC Fire Deputy Commissioner Francis X. Gribbon refused to endorse the program and Dr. David Prezant, deputy chief medical officer has advised fire fighters to not seek treatment from anyone besides trained medical professionals and urged them to not take part.
 
Written By: Xenu
URL: http://
Scientology has a string of dead bodies to its credit. Check out the story of Lisa McPherson, who was held against her will for 17 days and denied proper medical care. The autopsy photos are shocking. The cult now makes its members sign a form releasing it from liability if it does this kind of thing to them. You can view the form at LisaClause.org; it was also reprinted in Harpers Magazine.

Check out the story of the Scientologist Jeremy Perkins, an unmedicated schizophrenic who had a psychotic break and stabbed his mother Elli to death. Elli was not just a Scientologist, she was the top auditor at the Church of Scientology of Buffalo. She was treating Jeremy’s mental illness with vitamins, just as Tom Cruise advised.

Visit whyaretheydead.net for a long list of other Scientology-related deaths. Some are outright crimes; all are sad stories.
 
Written By: Dave Touretzky
URL: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Secrets
Interesting...

Scientoligists show up to defend their creed...

Anti-scientoligists then show up to "show the truth"...


Being on neither side, (people are free to make up their own minds,) it is interesting to know that both sides are trolling the blogs.

My suggestion would be to edit out anything not relevent to the original posting.

*****
Scientologist Hayes was the voice of Chef on "South Park," but just quit the Comedy Central hit, citing "intolerance and bigotry toward religious beliefs."
*****

Since Hayes has been on the show since 1997, I find it odd that he has only recently become offended by the shows "intolerance and bigotry" towards religious beliefs. Personally, as a Christian, I found it hillarious that Jesus is constantly portrayed with a machine-gun, attacking the kids enemies.

So, it would seem Hayes has only recently become offended, or I suppose, it could be true that the offense is now greater then the cash he’s gotten for being on the show. So, it is a logical conclusion that the cause of this new found objection is the shows targeting of Scientology (or Cruise) for sarcasm, or something/someone external to Hayes convinced him it was wrong. Probably, having to pay extra to get the engrams out or something.
 
Written By: Keith, Indy
URL: http://
I’m curious, Mr. Churilov. Have you ever been on the RPF yourself?
 
Written By: problem lady
URL: http://
Keith,
People are free to make up their own minds. They are not free to break the law, and that’s what Scientology spends a lot of time doing. If you can’t be bothered to learn about it, fine. But at least admit your ignorance and reserve judgement until you change your mind and do a little bit of reading on the subject.

Somebody brought up Lisa McPherson. When she was brought to the hospital after being under the care of Scientologists for seventeen days (they passed four hospitals on the way so they could take her to one where a Scientology doctor was on duty), her body was covered in bruises and cockroach bites and she was massively dehydrated. A young woman does not end up like that unless a crime has been committed.

Not to mention the harrassment that anyone who tried to investigate the matter was subjected to.
 
Written By: Xenu
URL: http://
I was a second generation $cientlogist. Both of my parents worked in the upper levels of $cientology. This ’church’ is nothing but a dangerous scam. It portrays itself as a religion and yet has no mention of ’God’ once you enter it; unless of course you are brainwashed enough to accept Hubbard as your God.

I was left for hours on my own as a kid because $cientologists believe kids are ’thetans in small bodies’ and therefore subject to the same sanctions adults are.

Staring at a blank wall (without blinking) for up to 4 hours at a time will induce a ’spiritual’ experience in anyone.

$cientology isn’t just wacky - it’s plain lethal.

There is nothing scientific about it all. None of the ’studies’ done by L Ron Hubbard were ever tested by double blind standards.

I wish to remain anonymous as I still have family members within this cult and I have no intention to be responsible for any of them being sent to RPF.
 
Written By: JoeSmithOrg44
URL: http://
This is for you Greg:

Are you familiar with the terms, "TR-Lie, Acceptable Truths, Shore Stories, Truth in Gradients"? I think that you have been the victim on these things. You probably suspect it. You have probably spent a lot of cash, spent a lot of time and said a lot of foolish things alienating friends. At this point there are two things you can do. You can continue to spread the word about "the wacky cult" hoping that you can fish a few more people in who will think that you are special for showing them the one true path to enlightenment or you can admit that you have made the biggest mistake of your life and try to rectify it.
 
Written By: Churlish Gregory
URL: http://
To Keith Indy;

Yes, I have. About a decade ago.

The RPF is a voluntary rehabilitation program for Sea Org members. It is noteworthy that only a very small percentage of Scientologists are Sea Org members, which is the Scientology clergy.

Anti-Scientologists use the RPF program as a booga-boo to scare the uninformed, when in reality the average Scientologist would have no exposure, participation or even be qualified for the RPF program.

I have read accounts about the RPF from disaffected ex-members, and it’s like asking someone’s ex-wife about their performance as a husband. It’s waaaay biased.

In the RPF we got three square meals a day in the staff cafeteria, dessert and all. We slept 8 hours a night, which was essential as we were supposed to be well rested during the program. We worked on manual labor tasks, and I learned carpentry during those days. I still enjoy carpentry as a hobby.

And the key point of the RPf is that we received 4 hours a night dedicated for study and/or counseling - and I personally saw several people overcome lifelong personal challenges while on this program.

Personally, to me the RPF is like boy-scout camp for grownups. I don’t get where all the horror stories come from.

Sincerely,
Greg Churilov
http://www.liveandgrow.org
 
Written By: Greg Churilov
URL: http://www.liveandgrow.org
To Churlish,

Well, I don’t know how to reply to that. You don’t even know me, and yet you’ve made all sorts of pronouncements about my life, my mind, my finances even, etc.

All of them way off base.

Look, I’m not saying Scientology is for everyone. But let’s stop demonizing it already. And stop assuming that every member of this religion must de facto be a brainless idiot.

I happen to do quite well, I have a great marriage and two happy kids, I live in suburbia and own a home, and run my own business. My wife and I participate in the community and go to the PTA.

I’ve been a Scientologist for 20+ years, and the experience so far has been a fruitful one. The things I have learned and applied to my life have helped me flourish and succeed, and be happy.

And, being that America is still a free Country (Dubbya Bush notwithstanding), I believe we’re free to practice our beliefs.

Sincerely,
Greg Churilov
http://www.liveandgrow.org
 
Written By: Greg Churilov
URL: http://www.liveandgrow.org
What really upsets me about all of this is that there are very serious issues with how psychiatric medicine is being used these days, and now anytime that anyone attempts to raise that issue they get compared to Tom Cruise and dismissed entirely.

So now if anyone dared to suggest that, perhaps, that the fact that 10% of American boys are on Ritalin might not neccesarily be a [i]good thing[/i], we get dismissed as crazy Scientologist wannabes.

By the way, it is really freaking creepy how quickly the scientologist came out of the woodwork and pounced all over this comments section.
 
Written By: Rosensteel
URL: http://
Greg,
As much as I detest your religion, I am genuinely glad that you do not share in many of the thousands of sad stories of abuse and mistreatment. I mean that. If Scientology has offered you nothing but support, then good for you. But I work with people recovering from their time with the "church" and can tell you that your circumstances are the exception rather than the rule and that every day I deal with people who have had their lives literally destroyed.

I genuinely hope your happiness with Scientology lasts your lifetime, but should it not, please do not ever forget that there are people who have devoted their lives to helping those who have been hurt by this "church" who will be there for support. I don’t mean that to sound condescending.
 
Written By: Xenu
URL: http://
Quoting Greg Churilov:

"Most of what makes us seem wacky/weird are news stories that greatly distort what we’re all about. Sure, we believe Man is an immortal, spiritual being. Sure, we believe there’s been civilizations before Earth. So? Christians believe in Angels and in Eden."

Mainstream churches don’t charge tens of thousands of dollars for such whacky claims as Xenu and the volcanos and BTs stuff. The OT I - OT VIII is a cool $50,000.00 using Scientology’s 1995 price list.
Main stream churches don’t make a lot of big false promises that expensive courses will make you a super-human with superpowers over MEST and men.


Churilov:

"It’s easy for cynical reporters to twist stuff about any religion. You could say that Christians engage in cannibalistic rituals every Sunday, in memory a carpenter who could walk on water. You could say that Jewish folk believe they’re descendants of a man who nearly burned his own son alive because he heard voices in his head. That paints a lopsided picture, does it not?"

Dianetics, a book still peddled furiously to this day, claims as a clear, you get a perfect memory, you a clear gets a massive IQ increase, a Clear works chess problems in 10 - 15 seconds a mere norm takes half an hour with. Grow undersized body parts (No flat chested wimmins at the orgs, nosiree!) and
other ludicrous promises.

Not a single one of them true. And that’s just Dianetics! How much more powerful is that OT space cootie exorcisms Xenu stuff? $50,000.00 worth?


Churilov
"Ridiculing and mocking a religion is easy to do from the outside looking in."

Ridiculing false, ludicrous claims is a duty of all thinking people. Whether it is big, fat, false promises of the miracles awaiting a Scientologist
who has exorcised his Xenu-created dead alien soul parasites, or some fool killing his child because some preacher says one should rely on prayer and the Lord. The idea that miracles (John 14:12-4, Mark 11:20) will solve all are simply false. At least the bible thumpers are up front about it and don’t charge tens of thousands for their errors. And lie about what their core beliefs are when asked point blank. Scientology has and does.
Its a duty to point these things out in case of Scientology, a predatory cult that heavily proselytizes and lies about what its core beliefs
are, or did until the Xenu and BT stuff became widely known such as lying is now all but useless. Scientology in the recent past sued a number people heavily over this to keep it a secret. Because they KNOW that if everybody knew up front what the secret and expensive core beliefs of Scientology were without Scientology being able to brainwash people slowly to accept it, the suckers are going to flee
Scientology’s recruitment efforts.

Pointing out the facts is not to ridicule Scientology properly, its pointing out the facts and lies. and giving people a well deserved informed choice which Scientology has long had a policy of not doing. That is deception and its unacceptable.


Churilov:
"But better than giving in to such provincialism, one could bother to ask, to learn, to comprehend. (I’m not saying become ’convert’, I’m saying *understand*.)"

The problem is, with Scientology, they never told people up front about this Xenu jive to new recruits. Its out now thanks to critics. And for a long time even after it was out, Scientology lied about it. You cannot "bother to ask, to learn, to comprehend" a cult that lies and misleads most purposefully as to what its core beliefs actually are and sues people who try to tell others. Scientology sued for example, the Washington Post when they printed the Xenu nonsense about 1996.
Scientology has long been dishonest about what it really teaches and believes.

Churilov:
"Also, you probably would not think us wacky or weird as we volunteered by the thousands, for weeks at a time,in Mississippi, handing out water, food and succor to hurricane survivors."

When the Scientology VM program started up after Katrina hit, the Scientologists were publically collecting money to send Lousiana - pamphlets.
1 1/2 million pamphlets. Not food clothing, or water. "Way to Happiness" pamphlets. "Hi! I am a Scientologist! I see you are sitting dazed in the midst of ruin that was once your home. Here! Have a "Way to Happiness pamphlet! Its by L. Ron Hubbard!". The gap between claims and reality of Scientology largess and helpfulness is large here. Scientology went to NO not to help, but to peddle Scientology.

Basically, Scientology is ridiculous. Its claims are ridiculous. Its long habit of hiding its real teachings is ridiculous. The claims of acquiring vast super-human abilities for spending years of your life exorcising non-existant space cooties is ridiculous. The fact Scientology lies furiously about all of this is ridiculous. The huge expense is ridiculous. Savage policies such as disconnection, fair gaming ex-members and critics is ridiculous. Ranting and raving about the psychs is ridiculous, and sending swarms of Scientologists to disaster areas with van loads of useless pamphlets is ridiculous.

Its not the only ridiculous cult or religion around
and pointing at other ridiculous cults and religious ideas does not excuse Scientology.

However the main point is, Scientology is the most dishonest about these things. No, they are going to tell you all these things even if you ask point blank. And that is what is most objectionable about Scientology, the fact they will lie, but always tell you, "Read our books, ask us questions, investigate us".

Cheerful Charlie
 
Written By: Cheerful Charlie
URL: http://
Charlie,
Not only is the VM stuff ridiculous, it’s downright disgusting. It’s a time-worn cult tactic to exploit people when they are weak. Not all Scientologists are sucked in because of their lack of intelligence. Some come to the "church" at times in their lives when they are vulnerable and more likely to believe the ludicrous promises.

My grandmother lived near Clearwater, FL and shortly after my grandfather died, she was approached at her home by Scientologists claiming they could cure her grief. These people peruse obituary pages looking for families who have recently suffered the loss of loved ones because they know they are more susceptible to their influence. For the purposes of getting their money. That’s morally reprehensible.
 
Written By: Xenu
URL: http://
And still with the not justifying the money thing. Unless I missed it.

Why do you have to pay to be saved, gentlemen? Are the poor exempt from salvation?
 
Written By: Adam
URL: http://sophistpundit.blogspot.com
No they are not. They can earn their audits by working in Scientology centers for long hours and very, very low pay.
 
Written By: Xenu
URL: http://
Adam,
Not only that, but did you notice that he challenged "Xenu" to produce any evidence and when he/she/it did, he conveniently ignored the response?

"Eldon (sic - it was another person entirely that raised the accusation), your hack attack on niacin lacks scientific backing, and you provide no evidence to back it up."

Greg, where is your answer now?

To Greg’s credit, he’s the most thoughtful and tame Scientologist I’ve ever encountered. Most of them just make up lies, engage in personal attacks, or distract people from their accusers with bogus statistics about psychiatry.

Unlike "Xenu," however, I do not wish him success. He’s a member of a criminal organization, whether he knows it or not and his "auditing fees" are paying for the destruction of lives.
 
Written By: Thetan Lover
URL: http://proudsuppressives.blogspot.com
dude, lighten up. They’re weird, they sue, big deal. I think someone hit it right earlier—the "antis" are acting just as disturbingly zealous as the apologists in this thread.
 
Written By: Adam
URL: http://sophistpundit.blogspot.com
That’s easy for you to say when they are not actively trying to destroy your life. Let’s talk about the "big deal" then.
 
Written By: Thetan Lover
URL: http://proudsuppressives.blogspot.com
Scientology is still less embarassing than that pathetic kabbalah crap Madonna practices with that stupid red string around the wrist...
 
Written By: shark
URL: http://
RE: RPF - the slave labor camps of the Cult of Scientology.

Greg Churilov wrote:

> The RPF is a voluntary rehabilitation program for Sea Org members. ...

Bull! RPF is slave labor obtained though scientology "ethics" and "justice" procedures. It is usually ordered when labor is needed to build new buildings or to renovate old buildings. 5% to 10% of staff are always on the RPF on a semi-permanent basis.

Scientology justice and ethics is an insane mix of indoctrination and endless "confesionals". It is heavy on making you feel guilty for all your past, pesent and future misdeeds, both real and imaginary. The
end result is always more guilt and punishment - while telling you it makes you better - the only way you get out is to "feel better".

Scientology ethics is only interested in demanding that you either snitch on others (in the form of "knowledge reports") or self (in the
form of "O/W write-ups") all of which gets you involved in endless interogations (called security checks "sec-checks"). The ambiance is that of a police state but the indoctrinated find it is "normal".

If you are on staff, any classes you take (4 hours a day after working 12+ hours a day) and any confesionals (which you run on each other) will be charged to you at full list price, usually in the tens of thousands of dollars should you decide you have had enough and want to leave the nut house.

The big booga-boo is not the RPF. It is the war-mode/police-state mentality within the cult of scientology that is a problem. The RPF
is only a symptom. This is what you can expect within a thrid rate nazi state, where paranoia about multi-life-time psychiatric
son-of-xenu galactic-overlord evil-doers are more real than the ethos of the constitution or eating apple-pie.

Z

 
Written By: zeeorger
URL: http://
I was a born a 3rd generation Jehovah’s Witness and they are a "wolves in sheep’s clothing" ripoff religious racket.

Cults are destructive.-Danny Haszard
 
Written By: Danny Haszard
URL: http://www.DannyHaszard.com
Stop and think about it, the baker III boys [james baker III {chancellor}, rove {SS henchman}, bush {marionette w/ a speech impediment, namely, english}] are enjoying the same domination of the universe that the scientologist practice on a smaller scale.

> indoctrinate people who can’t think for themselves

> pretend the powers "at be" are religious and righteous

> take the poor/middle classes money and give it to the wealthy, any way possible

> make it look as though your doing good while your sucking the life out of your followers

> when someone complains, call them a traitor, make up phony press, or sue them, while making laws to make sure they can’t sue you back!

We could go on & on but not enough time for know!

THINK ON YOUR OWN.


 
Written By: marcel blanc
URL: http://
I had a very good friend in Burbank whose husband was a former Scientologist. When they wanted him to put a second mortgage on his dead father’s house (he had already forked up $200K to reach level 3,) he said, "No!" This landed him continuous harrassment from the organization and a lot of personal loss. (They went after his job, his wife and threatened to kidnap his children.) It took him a lot of moving around and unlisted numbers to gain his independence.

All I can say is, unless you KNOW someone personally who reached OT3, you can’t KNOW what Scientology teaches. Matt and Trey were dead on accurate.

I have just one question...my sister (who works for the county sherriff as a correctional officer) had a prisoner in last night who declared he was being possessed by 5 different aliens. They decided to 5150 him.

How come they don’t do that to Tom Cruise?????



 
Written By: Maria Taheny
URL: http://
"Scientology justice and ethics is an insane mix of indoctrination and endless "confesionals". It is heavy on making you feel guilty for all your past, pesent and future misdeeds, both real and imaginary."

They do make the Catholic Church seem reasonable. At least the RCC has the Seal of Confession (prohibiting priests from even admitting you CAME to confession, much less disclose WHAT you confessed.) They also grant forgiveness. Scientology just declares you free of the evil thetan that caused all the problems!

Now we understand why they don’t like psychiatry. I believe most psychiatrists would call this "projecting."

;)
 
Written By: Maria Taheny
URL: http://
To Maria Taheny;

The things you mention sure would make someone be upset about a religion.

But the thing is, they’re not based on solid fact.

For example, Scientology DOES follow the Priest/Penitent Confidentiality model, and have defended parishioner’s privacy rights EVEN WHEN the parishioner turns into a wildly noisy apostate. I have seen this personally.

Done properly, a Scientology Confessional makes you feel relief, forgiveness and renewed self-esteem.

In terms of the husband of your friend, I’m surprised you haven’t considered the possibility that he might have not be telling the truth, at least not the whole truth - in his story he shines like a beacon of propriety, and the Church of Scientology is the scapegoat. For all we know, he gambled the money away and did not have the cohones to come clean to the wife - so blamed it on Scientology instead.

Sincerely,
Greg Churilov
http://www.liveandgrow.org
 
Written By: Greg Churilov
URL: http://www.liveandgrow.org
I have lost SO much money due to $cientology and I’m not even a member!! My mother owned two houses here in CA and after she died, I was in a bad car accident. A car turned left, right into my path, and I wound up on a planter. My brother proceeded to sell the houses and I got NOTHING, and waited, while recuperating from the accident, for him to be honest, to no avail. He has some very good friends who are $cientologists who have been horrible to me for the last 30 years, and no doubt to them, I’m a suppressive person. $cientology, if you are really sincere, then quit charging THOUSANDS of dollars for your practices. It’s disgusting, and the fact that my brother will or will not say whether he is a $cientologist, after a 30 year association with them, & his actions...you connect the dots! And don’t even ask about my father’s money. The $cientologists nosed around about that, as well, only to fade into the woodwork when they found out my father had "spent down" to qualify for Medical benefits after his stroke 12 years previously. As far as I’m concerned, they worship $$ at $cientology centers. For the record, I never watch South Park because I think it’s disgusting, but I’m appreciative of Matt Stone & Trey Parker’s comments!!
 
Written By: Can’t tell you
URL: http://
The Tom Cruise Scientology attack on South Park’s satire of L. Ron Hubbard’s science fiction religion is the Western equivalent of the Muslim violent intolerance of cartoons satirizing their prophet. Each takes itself with a deadly seriousness that drives an inability to tolerate ridicule and criticism. The ugly fundamentalist truth is that both Scientology’s retribution and censorship of critics whom it objectifies as "suppressive persons" and the Muslim vow to kill "infidels" will smartly dispose of non-believers when either religion runs the show.

It’s a pity Viacom’s greed and fear fuel the corporate corruption that enables the Scientology censorship agenda.

South Park forever!
 
Written By: Ford Greene
URL: http://www.fordgreene.com
To "Cant Tell You":

So, let me get this straight:

Your family likes you so little that neither your brother, nor your mother, nor your father wanted to give you any of their money, choosing instead to give it to a charitable organization.

You whine about YOUR money, but, as I understand, it was NOT your money, NOT money you earned. And perhaps the reason you didn’t get your greedy paws on your family’s money was not Scientology at all, but simply the fact that your motives were too transparent for them to stomach.

"Where There’s a Will, There’s a Sycophantic Relative."

Sincerely,
Greg Churilov
http://www.liveandgrow.org
 
Written By: Greg Churilov
URL: http://www.liveandgrow.org
To Ford Greene:

No, drawing an equivalent between Islamic violent fundamentalism and Scientology is NOT a logical simile.

For one thing, Scientologists are not out there burning TV stations.

For another thing, the RUMOR that Tom Cruise had anything to do with influencing Viacom was soundly rebuffed by Cruise’s camp, and there’s not even been any confirmation from Viacom nor South Park either. We live in a Country where people are INNOCENT UNTIL FOUND GUILTY, remember?

Get your raging twisted logic based on half-basked rumors reeled in.

Sincerely,
Greg Churilov
http://www.liveandgrow.org
 
Written By: Greg Churilov
URL: http://www.liveandgrow.org
We live in a Country where people are INNOCENT UNTIL FOUND GUILTY, remember?
A) That applies only to criminal offenses, so it is irrelevant.

B) It doesn’t apply to what we think about something, e.g., whether OJ Simpson actually killed Nicole Simpson and Ron Brown, despite his criminal acquittal.
...and there’s not even been any confirmation from Viacom nor South Park either.
Nor has their been any denial, which makes it equally valid to take a point of view that differs from yours, based on your own argument.
 
Written By: Dale Franks
URL: http://www.qando.net
The thing that I find most creepy is the fact that the constant theme here is not to judge from the outside in. So, my question is, how do you judge any other way when the inside is not open to anyone without a substantial financial cost? Not to mention the fact that you have to prove you are a true believer before you can learn any of the so called good stuff, OT III and above. What, we are all suppose to take the word of the church as truth without any questions? Oh please send me more pamphlets and brochures.

You are right, this whole church(or whatever) is creepy to the core. I recently lost a friend of 20+ years to this cult because he now refuses to talk to me. He felt that my criticism of the church was unfounded, and especially didn’t like me calling what he does immoral. Well, rationally, I cannot come to any other conclusion about people that take thousands of dollars from someone as payment in order to discover their truths. There are lots of ways to help people without the financial burden. What disturbs me most is the complete and utter secrecy of the group as a whole. I have yet to hear, read, see, anyone give any answer what-so-ever about Xenu, or Body Thetans, or anything in that sphere of knowledge which is supposedly the core of the religion. This is a kin to a Christian not telling you about Jesus until you have paid $50,000. If they did that, they would be equally as creepy.

So, I am stuck here just accepting the fact that my friend of 20+ years will no longer talk to me. He quit a 100+k a year job to work for the church so that his sessions would be free. He divorced his wife, and married another scientologist that comes with a whole family of scientologists, so I guess I can assume he is thoroughly ingrained. Someone once said that you can take all of life’s problems, wars, economic struggle, internal conflict, poverty, etc, and find their roots in religion. Must have been a smart man.
 
Written By: Lance
URL: http://
Scientology is a litigious, paramilitary quasi-fascist business, a brainwashing cult of psycho-terror, and the treatment it is (hopefully) getting in Germany and many other countries is what the Nazies SHOULD have gotten in the early 30’s. Their claim "likening themselves to Jews being persecuted during the Nazi era", is absolutely cynical and disgusting.

As in numerus previous cases, scientologists are urged (and coersed) by their military superiors, to write/phone the press or net over and over again in order to give an impression of some vast following, which of course does not really exist- the supposed 8 million followers they claim? 200,000 at the most would be more likely.
The web is full of fascinating and accurate info about this most lying of cults- and guess what- that info is NOT to be found within the cult’s own propaganda sites; Most scientologists don’t know jack about the real history and facts regarding their group or dead paranoid Leader. Not only are they convinced that all critical writings about Scn. are part of a Cosmic Conspiracy trillions (thats right!) of years old, they actually are not allowed to come in any contact with the evil originators of said criticism- the SP’s- (thats short for "Suppresive Person")- the "anti social personality", best recognized by the mere fact that he or she are anti Scientology. Scientologists that do communicate with an SP are dealt with by the "Ethics officer" or "Master at arms" , are "handled" at their OWN expense by a self created "Justice System" that would make any decent person’s skin crawl, and could face Ex-communication by the "Church", their own family and former buddies. Worse, that would be for them the equivalent of banishment from any chance of spiritual freedom.

One should be aware of the belief system they espouse. In their unbelievably high priced "services", the (at one time) secretive higher levels, and in his over-the-counter Scientology books and tape recordings- Hubbard talks about aliens and "galactic civilizations" constantly- he gets into great detail about the subject. It’s ludicrous. The sheer quantity and depth of the idiocy found in Hubbard’s writing is way beyond the scope of this letter. The net provides ample examples and proof to anybody who is not already a brainwashed fanatic.

ALL (new) scientologists are lied to by their "more advanced" colleagues regarding this and other ridiculous "scientific" claims, and are led to believe that they can for the time being, avoid making a personal decision about the subject. This goes on until THEY TOO have been brainwashed, at which point they will treat the totality of L.R.Hubbard’s writing and opinions as absolute truth, NO ifs and buts. Any scientologist saying otherwise is lying: He knows the truth- NO ONE may go up the "Bridge To Total Freedom" with any other opinions than those of the "Source", Hubbard. The True Believer lies to himself too, but that is what being brainwashed is all about, and where the biggest betrayal takes form.

Do you suppose I would have wasted my time writing this
letter had I (and thousands of others who HAVE BEEN THERE) not
felt very strongly about this? Just hope your that your own kids don’t fall into such a scam. Thanks.

By someone who is too scared to sign his name. (Like so many others.)
 
Written By: bb
URL: http://
To Greg C regarding canttellyou

OK, so let me get this straight. You think that this guy’s motives for getting money from family were greedy? (First of all, you mention his mother, even though he says she died)I’m not 100% on this, but I’m pretty sure he said he was in a car accident. He makes no claim that he was even looking to get any money, but I think its logical to assume he needed something to help pay for medical expenses. Doesn’t sound too greedy to me.
 
Written By: elf
URL: http://
Scientology is to religion what Planet Hollywood is to burgers.

This subject only recently made my attention. I find, and this is fairly objective since I had read Dianetics about 10 years ago and I am not a christian, muslim, or anything else that can be summed up with one word, the idea of Dianetics is healthy the practice is not. The foundations of the CoS is not.

I rely heavily on the source. LRH. An established and prolific LIAR who through his own admission was just out to make a buck. He says things like "the purpose of a lawsuit is to harass and discourage, not to win." madman. "I am a Nuclear Physicist." That never graduated from college, madman.

His people went to jail for spying on the justice department. MADMAN.

His ideas kill people, madman.

He died with psychiatric medication in his system, someone else had to administer it, cuz he was a madman.

Tom Cruise/Mapother, moron. He was doing just fine with believing it to be true. Then he fires his PR guy hires his sister and now he is running his mouth all over the world about his cult.

Me personally, sceintologists don’t affect my life. They aren’t in my sight, they only once knocked on my door to sell me anything, and I bought the book, Dianetics. Christians hit my door a couple times a month, but at least they are upfront about what they are selling.

The way scientology touches me is that I have genuine sympathy for the people the CoS has hurt. The smear tactics, the lawsuits clogging the system, the attack on free speech, the stupid sta-puft uniforms, the mind-numbing banter of rediculously brain-washed idiots clogging blog after blog with the same "ADMIT NOTHING DENY EVERYTHING" mentality that I am sure LRH just loves.

Scientologists follow the teachings of a madman, if it works for you thats awesome and it is likely you could have gotten the same result with some simple group therapy that would have cost you alot less green backs. If it doesn’t work for you why are you shunned, by even your family. You are shunned because you have a mind of your own, and Scientology doesn’t support/have "tech" for that particular engram.

Keep up the debate, its nice to read.

Mr. Churilov I mourn your lost sense of commons. Sincerely I do. You are a level headed and passionate man, you are too good for your Church.

Peace Y’all

oh yeah, the celebs that are involved with this cult likely get a cut of the profits and definately don’t pay the same rates for services, no good spokes person would. I am sure that Michael Jordan will never have to pay for a pair of sneakers as long as he lives.
 
Written By: Nunya Bizness
URL: http://
I hate to put up another post right behind my own but I stumbled across an LRH quote that is very disturbing.

and I paraphrase

"..if you believe it is true, then it is true to you."

wow

deep

psychotic

This summarizes the very definition of psychosis, simply because you believe it that makes it true, to you.

OMG, LRH = raving nutjob.

Following this kind of creedo is ridiculous, I simply can’t imagine a sane person subscribing to this mentality. I can’t, and neither should any of you!

Only in America
 
Written By: Nunya Bizness
URL: http://
I always enjoyed Tom Cruise’s movies in the 80s. In my childhood, I saw "Taps" right before 7th grade football. I remember the extreme physical conditioning, which I applied to playing football. Risky Business and Top Gun were favorites among my friends. Tom’s drama roles are also good. Born on the 4th of July was a war epic based on tragedy. In real life, he also has great character. He helped pay the medical bills of a hit-and-run victim in Europe. Many people (regardless of religious background) would probably admire the last part about the hit-and-run victim.

I know the 1st and 14th amendments guarantee freedom of religion. So Tom Cruise has a right to practice his own religion (however controversial). The only thing I don’t understand is why he chooses to date Catholic women with a purpose of tearing them from their religion of upbringing. This is done clearly against the appeasement of the woman’s respective parents. Does Tom have a goal of antagonizing in-laws? This seems to be a pattern with him, and the historical, biographical facts show that the marriages/unions normally don’t workout for Tom. I know he’s been divorced twice. Statistics show that people with failed marriages are more likely to divorce the next time around. Rumors are already "abuzz" about another failed relationship. If this relationship with Katie fails, (which it probably will) then maybe he should try and date a female who is already a Scientologist in the first place (parents included). As an analogy, Tom Cruise’s relationship with Katie Holmes is like an undefeated USC football team ranked #1 in December of 2005 - it is only matter of time before defeat (like it was with his previous "Catholic" wives/girlfriends).

As a Catholic, I figured out something though. Don’t raise your child in a strict Catholic environment with overbearing Catholic schools because they will probably just rebel against it like Katie Holmes (or Jenny McCarthy). I heard the same thing happens to other religions (i.e. Baptist, Mormon, 7th Day Adventist). I do want my children to be Catholic, but it is probably best to be subtle and discrete rather than overbearingly strict, especially during the teenage years.
 
Written By: NotreDameCatholic
URL: http://
Greg Churilov,

Ok if what you say is true then why does scientology take notes or record every auditing session? And if true can you explain why scientology has sites like the Cleveland Safety League which slams a critic. It says the site is to keep the area safe but somehow they forgot to list the 10 convicted sex offenders in the same area.
Explain the Religious Freedom Watch site that scientology claims to have set up for all faiths. Yet the only people the site warns about are critics of scientology and if full of half truths and outright lies.

scientology is very creepy and more people are seeing this everyday. Your own views in this matter got you kicked off of Ask Me .com if I remember right.

But the bottom line you and others how have to post is this. No one really cares what silly stuff you wish to belive in. Its your choice to follow whatever brings you peace and makes you happy.
Critics are against the actions of scienotlogy which can be pretty heartless and sick. If you want everyone to treat scientology like a church it needs to start acting like one.
 
Written By: jerald
URL: http://

 
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