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A tale told by an idiot,
Full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.

Posted by: Dale Franks on Tuesday, May 23, 2006

Well, it appears that the Jesse Macbeth video has disappeared from peacefilms.org. In it’s place is a pretty picture of the world. It’s nice. There’s no message, or any other accessible content at the site, although one lefty blogger, who’s quite perturbed with us, notes:
STOP PRESS STOP PRESS a message appeared on the peacefilms.org website stating that due to a request from Iraq Veterans Against War the video had been removed. The video and the comments section now appears inaccessible
Meanwhile, IVAW itself is on the case. Like Sergeant Shultz, they know nothing. Nothing!
Iraq Veterans Against the War recently learned of a video interview with Jesse MacBeth that directs viewers to IVAW’s website and phone number. IVAW was not made aware of the creation of this video program and our input on it was never sought by its producers. Jesse MacBeth is not a spokesperson for IVAW and any claims made by MacBeth about his service have not been verified. We are currently investigating these claims and will have a full statement pending its resolution.
I’m sure we’re all keen to learn the outcome of that investigation. The mystery is just killing me.

Still, if he’s not a spokesman for IVAW, I gotta wonder why he shows up as an IVAW representative at places like this. Or why he has suddenly disappeared from leftist web sites, like Joe Wilson’s website did, along with all mentions of him from the Kerry website after his lies were made public. Poor Mr. Macbeth is getting the full Winston Smith from places like this. Of course, Winston Smith had it easy. He never had to try and alter the Google Cache.

On the left, consternation seems to be the order of the day. For instance, over at The void, the blog I linked to at the top of the post, the entry is titled: "We are all Jessies!"

My mind reels with sarcastic replies. But I’ll be satisfied with remarking that implying that you, like Mr. Macbeth, are lying frauds is probably not the impression you want to give to your readers.

The very first paragraph shows that the Poster, one "the void" (May I call you "the" or just "Mr. Void"?), shows that the void doesn’t get it. Perhaps the void refers to the space inside his sku...but, no, that would be cruel to say.
The right is now acting with a moral indignation derived from years of covering their eyes and crossing their fingers when spreading their own packs of lies.
The Void, you see, has used his amazing mental powers to divine my innermost thoughts.

He may need to get those powers retuned. Maybe he needs a new set of crystals or pyramids, or whatever.

Because our moral indignation has nothing to do with choking down the lies spewed by the Chimpy McBushitlerburton fascist Amerikkkan state. Instead, it results from the fact that Mr. Macbeth falsely appropriated the uniform we wore with pride; the badges we earned through our own sweat, blood, and tears; and did so for no other reason than to slander us and our comrades who still serve. Even more importantly, nearly all of us who served as career soldiers, sailors, marines, and airmen know people we served with who are no longer with us. More important than protecting our own honor from slander, is defending the honor of our fellow soldiers who can no longer defend it themselves. They actually did do the things that Mr. Macbeth claimed to do, and they came home in flag-draped coffins.

Mr. Macbeth mocked our service, and the sacrifice of our dead comrades, and we bitterly resent it.
So the question is who is Jesse Macbeth, a low grade prankster, a delusional misfit, a wannabe actor or a disinfomation op, created by the anti-war left or the reactionary right, to discredit the war or discredit the IVAW respectively.
Ah. There it is. "It wasn't our fault! We were fooled by the devilish machinations of the Right, who sent Jesse in as an agent provocateur." It's an idea repeated on that venerable old warhorse, Democratic Underground, too.

Well, that's pure crankery. Quite apart from anything else, you can't really fool people who don't want to be fooled, and who are prepared to exercise skeptical thinking, by presenting them with such an obvious fraud. Many on the left wanted to believe Mr. Macbeth. It's that simple.

It also brings to mind the obvious problem with many on the Left, which is that, when it comes to military affairs, they simply aren't competent to make informed judgments about them. They don't have enough knowledge about their own country's military know that Mr. Macbeth's uniform was a hodge-podge of mistakes, that it's nearly impossible for a 20 year-old corporal to be a Special Forces operator, or that judges haven't had the power to force a miscreant to join the armed forces since the all-volunteer force was created.

So, they swallow Mr. Macbeth's story, hook, line, and sinker. They believe the US Armed Forces routinely and intentionally slaughter Iraqi civilians, because Mr. Macbeth says so, and it's what they want to believe. And if Mr. Macbeth is a fraud, well, what does that matter? Because what he's saying is true in a larger sense, even if the specifics of everything else he says is a lie.

But, of course, of the witness is a liar, how can anything he says be believed? And if you are so ignorant of military affairs that you can't even see through such an obvious and transparent fraud, then why should we assume you have any greater insight into military affairs in general? How do we know you're exercising critical judgement and competence in your overall assessment of the activities of our troops, if you couldn't exercise it when confronted by transparent falsehoods? What else is it that you believe about our troops, based on similarly fraudulent sources?

Indeed, what is truly sad, as a commenter on this blog demonstrates, that many don't even understand the nature of the criticisms of Mr. Macbeth.
I see nothing here that is any more solid than the Jesse Macbeth video. The uniform nitpicking doesn’t impress.
The commenter doesn't understand that the uniform problems aren't nitpicking. They are fundamental. Uniform regulations aren't optional. Every patch, badge, or insignia on the uniform has a specific place. No deviation is allowed. If you step outside with your uniform out of place, someone will stop you, and correct you on the spot, or order you to return home and put on a proper uniform. The uniform regulations aren't something you occasionally consult. You live them every day, every time you don the uniform. You know every insignia and every ribbon, where it goes, and how it is displayed. Even the ribbons on your chest have to be placed in a specific order.
Many soldiers during and after Vietnam didn’t conform to the dress regs.
Maybe in the field they didn't, because line commanders often authorize some deviations due to local conditions, or the usefulness of civilian gear. But in all official photographs they do. Military photographers will not even take your picture unless your uniform is worn correctly. Your official picture is judged at promotion boards, etc., and it has to be right.
Seems kinda stupid, after participating in the ultimate disorder, to be dressing like the noncombatants at the pentagon, inside the beltway.
Well, if you don't know the meaning or purpose of discipline, professionalism, and personal pride, well, then, I guess it does seem kinda silly. All of that marching around in step, and saluting probably seems dumb too. I mean, what purpose could it possibly serve? (Note: If you don't immediately know the answer to that question, then, frankly, your competence to cast judgment on our crticisms is questionable.)

Now, Mr. Macbeth's fraud doesn't prove or disprove anything about the conduct of US soldiers in Iraq. And, in fact, at the moment, the US Marine Corps is investigating an alleged massacre of Iraqi civilians in Haditha, I believe. My understanding is that several people have already been relieved of duty pending that criminal investigation.

But, and here's the odd part, the investigation is being conducted by the military. The same military, by the way, that orders such massacres in the first place. So, apparently, in the odd reality of the left, the US military tells soldiers to routinely kill Iraqi civilians, then conducts investigations of the massacres.

Now, here's a little gedankenexperiment for you Lefties. Pretend you are a US soldier. (Yes, yes, I know. It's hard. But you've got to try and stick with me here.) You are ordered to kill Iraqi civilians, in what you know is a direct violation of the Law of Armed Conflict. You know that if you do so, and word gets out, you will be investigated and prosecuted for murder.

Would you actually do it? Is that a deal you'd willingly take? If not, then why in the world do you think any real soldier would? Is it that you think American soldiers are depraved animals, unlike moral paragons such as yourself? If so, then was your grandfather a depraved animal when he went off to fight in WWII? Why is it, exactly, that you think American soldiers would be willing to participate in the purposeful, cold-blooded executions of civilians?

A separate, though related question is, do US soldiers do bad things in combat? Undoubtedly so. In the stress of combat, pretty horrific things sometimes happen. But, when they do, as they allegedly did in USMC incident, the US military investigates and prosecutes those incidents, as it is currently doing in relation to that incident, and as it did in the Abu Ghraib incident.

And if the US military is routinely killing civilians as a matter of policy, ordering soldiers to kill hundreds of people in mosques or what have you, then where is your evidence? Not the statements of posers like Mr. Macbeth and his ilk, but real documented evidence. Where is the corroboration, the eyewitness testimony, the documentation? After all, we bear no burden of proof whatsoever in convincing anyone that US Soldiers are conduct themselves as honorably as they can, and that excesses are investigated and punished. On the contrary, if you are making the claim that US soldiers are indistingushable from the SS-Totenkopfverbande, then the burden of proof is on you.

If your "proof" is all the same caliber as Mr. Macbeth's "testimony", then I'm afraid you're going to need something more compelling.
 
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The interesting part of this story is that Jesse Macbeth’s story will now live on outside of Jesse Macbeth. It will be repeated without the name Jesse Macbeth attached.

As for Jesse Macbeth, he probably thought it was a good idea at the time. He most likely got caught up in that Mary Mapes mindset that the story "must be true" so it must be told. It doesn’t make it real or true, but, for some, it makes it necessary.

On the other side, may listeners also "wanted it to be true," so they didn’t question it hard enough. This mindset is what propagandist, of all persuasions, feed on to breath life into their disinformation.
 
Written By: Neo
URL: http://
The commenter doesn’t understand that the uniform problems aren’t nitpicking. They are fundamental. Uniform regulations aren’t optional. Every patch, badge, or insignia on the uniform has a specific place. No deviation is allowed. If you step outside with your uniform out of place, someone will stop you, and correct you on the spot, or order you to return home and put on a proper uniform. The uniform regulations aren’t something you occasionally consult. You live them every day, every time you don the uniform. You know every insignia and every ribbon, where it goes, and how it is displayed. Even the ribbons on your chest have to be placed in a specific order.
This is no lie... ADM. Borda committed suicide because he had made a mistake in wearing some decorations he maybe didn’t deserve to (and was hounded about it mercilessly)
 
Written By: shark
URL: http://
Question — if MacBeth did deliberately misrepresent his status as a soldier with a view to spreading anti-military propaganda, is that a federal crime? And, if it is, shouldn’t he be prosecuted in order to deter others from acting in similar fahion? And, if it isn’t, shouldn’t it be? Just asking.....
 
Written By: RAZ
URL: http://
"is that a federal crime?"

Unfortuantly, no it isn’t. If a crime didn’t happen, what are you going to be prosecuted for? Lying? Freedom of Speech will always kicks in. You can say so much crap about the military and still not get prosecuted for it. The ACLU will be all over this if he was being charged with something and say it’s "Protected Speech".

However, if people do get killed as a result of his lying. Then there could be something to tag onto him. Kind of like a girl lying she got raped by a guy and the guy gets killed in prison for something he didn’t do. Then she’d be charged with whatever the crime would fit the bill.
 
Written By: kaitain868
URL: http://
Very good post. Pointing out a failure to follow uniform regulations is not nit-picking. If the regs are not followed, it is no longer a uniform it is a costume. Macbeth seems to have been particularly easy to spot because of his lack of knowledge of the uniform or how to wear it. Many of these guys (they are almost invariably male) are harder to spot.
 
Written By: BillD
URL: http://
for the record the title ’we are all jessies’ was a dig at the left, in scotland and northern england jessie is slang for a fool, someone gullible and idiot or a fool

’Ah. There it is. "It wasn’t our fault! We were fooled by the devilish machinations of the Right, who sent Jesse in as an agent provocateur.’

okay read what i wrote again, get a dictionary if you need it, or someone to help

i pointed out a range of options for the sudden appearance of this video, one being a pro war smear, one being an anti-war smear

as it goes my guess is the delusional misfit option who got in over his head and managed to sucker a few folk on the way

i notice you ignore the comments i make where im critical of macbeth and say that it hasnt helped anyone, neither the left nor the right

all you right wing not jobs are gettiing all upset with me, when in fact i was the only leftist site to raise doubts about this video from its appearance and didnt take the easy way out and remove the link and pretend it never happened

and by the way, again for the record, im not a socialist im an anarchist and proud to say so
 
Written By: johnnyvoid
URL: http://johnnyvoid.blogspot.com
and by the way, again for the record, im not a socialist im an anarchist and proud to say so
Ok, bravely continue to rage against the same machine that provides you the freedom and security to do so.
 
Written By: Jordan
URL: http://
all you right wing not jobs are gettiing all upset with me, when in fact i was the only leftist site to raise doubts about this video from its appearance and didnt take the easy way out and remove the link and pretend it never happened
Actually, I just picked you out because you linked to us. I never heard of you before.
 
Written By: Dale Franks
URL: http://www.qando.net
Pointing out a failure to follow uniform regulations is not nit-picking. If the regs are not followed, it is no longer a uniform it is a costume.
That’s right, BillD ... there’s a reason they call it a ’uniform’, isn’t there?
 
Written By: McQ
URL: http://www.qando.net/blog
Well, finally Jessie has come out with the real story. And a few pictures to prove his points. enjoy
 
Written By: capt joe
URL: http://
Sigh. Straw men everywhere.

What if the US military wasn’t the same as the Das Reich division? What if it wasn’t being given and executing orders to deliberately massacre civilians by the hundreds as a matter of policy? What if they were only given orders whose paramters require insensitivity to potential civilian ’not-really-intentional’ deaths? What if acts of deliberate murder were rare? 1 in 1000 combats? 1 in 10000? What if they usually only involved one or two people, or fear and a percieved need for self defense? What if Jessie’s full of the stuff that makes the grass grow, as has been documented pretty exhaustively?

How does any of that make the killing of, let’s use the nice safe conservatives-agree number, 37000 Iraqi civilians over the past three years a just act? For whatever reasons? Under whatever circumstances?

A separate, though related question is, do US soldiers do bad things in combat? Undoubtedly so. In the stress of combat, pretty horrific things sometimes happen. But, when they do, as they allegedly did in USMC incident, the US military investigates and prosecutes those incidents

Man, I can be the nicest guy in the world, trying to repair a Swiss watch with nothing but a ballpeen hammer, overflowing with good intentions. In the end, though, when there’s just a pile of smashed junk, it’s still my responsibility to learn my lesson about how to fix the watch. Or, if I have a hopelessly blunt instrument like an army or a ballpeen hammer, what I can and cannot attempt to fix with it.


 
Written By: glasnost
URL: http://
What if the US military wasn’t the same as the Das Reich division?
Huh. Ok.

So, what if you accidentally shot someone in a hunting accident, instead of picking up a hitchiker, raping her, strangling her with her panty hose, then dismembering the body before dumping the parts in the woods?

If you can’t easily grasp the distinction between those two acts, then you are a moral cripple.
 
Written By: Dale Franks
URL: http://www.qando.net
You’ve completely missed my point, Dale.

My series of "what-ifs" maybe should have been instead replaced with "so what ifs." I’m not challenging any of your theses: I’m just not impressed with what you think is enough to get war supporters off the hook for the whole situation. Ok, the US Army does not equal Das Reich. Do you think that earns a blank check, just for not being Das Reich? Should we all shut up now and let this cluster**** unfold?

I understand the difference you’re going to such affronted lengths to demonstrate. I in turn am attempting to demonstrate that you can have all the best-case opinions of the morality and honor of the army and its soliders that you want, and it doesn’t make the war any less wrong. The objective facts of the consequences of our actions make the war wrong. You don’t need to rely on flakes like MacBeth on the supposed existence of intentional slaughters of civilans. The unintentional or incidental ones are quite bad enough to, in this case, call the whole thing an irresponsible mistake.
 
Written By: glasnost
URL: http://
Well it’s late on this thread, but tell me Glasnost, Like I asked MK... rather than complain would you tell me a war you supported? Does WWII meet your OK? Because the war did tremendous damage to Europe, killed MILLIONS upon MILLIONS, devastated the place, not the nazi’s, I’m just talking about the war-fgighting in general. Did the damge teh Allies and the USSR do to places like Poland, France, the Baltic Republics, Holland outweigh the good of the war?
 
Written By: Joe
URL: http://
Because the war did tremendous damage to Europe, killed MILLIONS upon MILLIONS...
About 40 million. Which is fewer than would have died had we just let the Nazis have their way, which is what you’re advocating with respect to Saddam, glasnost.
 
Written By: Jordan
URL: http://
You want my short answer on when military force is an unfortunate neccesity and/or morally acceptable lesser evil, at least arguably?

a) direct response to a direct military/ state-sponsored attack on your physical territory and/or civilians exceeding a situationally estimated level of severity

b) direct response of same attack on an ally which we have treaties with

c) on a case-by-case basis, direct intervention to halt a genocidal campaign of extermination currently in process, with the corrollary that you had better save more lives than the results of your actions end up killing, or you shouldn’t have done it in the first place.

That’s not only the guidelines for a state truly interested in discouraging aggression, it’s an American moral tradition. Which we have, not for the first time, cheapened, honorable soldiers or not.

 
Written By: glasnost
URL: http://

 
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