ooooh is this like Double Secret Probation? NOW Hizb’Allah, Lebanon and the UN have to perform? Oh yeah that’s SURE to happen... Israel had the right PRIOR to this debacle. It blew it then amidst international consternation and the NEXT time the same folks will say the same things. Let’s just hope Israel doesn’t blow it this time. |
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Written By:
Joe
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Round Two will go to Israel. Some Hezbollah hothead will fire off a couple of war-rockets into the caravan of returning soldiers and then it’s "game on". This time, Israel will truly have the moral high ground, they can show more film of their troops leaving the area to back up their statements that they ’really, really wanted the ceasefire to work’. Then they can blow Hezbollah (and Lebanon) to smithereens.
Unless, of course, the UN actually stands up and does something about Hezbollah.
Fat chance. |
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Written By:
Stephen
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Hizb’Allah says it won’t disarm... Lebanon says it won’t disarm Hizb’Allah... The UN says it won’t deploy UNLESS Hizb’Allah disarms (heard on Right-wing Talk Radio, so it may or may not be true)
So tell me again, WHEN IS HIZB’ALLAH DISARMING? And someone tell me the story of the "Glorious Victory" won in Lebanon lo these last 34 days. |
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Written By:
Joe
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If anything, the refusal should finally, once-and-for-all and forever point to the fact that you cannot negotiate with terrorists (thank you for finally making that point clear for those who’ve refused to accept that in the past, Mr. Nasrallah). Wrong again, McQ. You are on a streak.
Not that I think it would have mattered but no one ever really did ask Hezbollah to negotiate and they were always up front about not giving up their arms. There are two Hezbollah ministers in the government who extracted promises from the Lebanese government not to try to take their weapons away.
I’ll also note that back in the good old days, Sharon negotiated with the PLO to leave Lebanon and they left. Of course that caused the power vacume that created Hezbollah. Hopefully you can tell the difference between them.
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Written By:
cindyb
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Actually CindyB, the US, France, italy and the UN negotiated the withdrawl of the PLO from Beirut, if memory serves.
And I don’t think the sending forth of the PLO to Tunis creted a "power vacuum" that created Hizb’Allah. |
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Written By:
Joe
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Not that I think it would have mattered but no one ever really did ask Hezbollah to negotiate and they were always up front about not giving up their arms. Really, you ought to try and keep up a little better, Cindy:Hours earlier, Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah said that his militia would honor the call for a cease-fire once a deal on the timing was reached. Apparently someone ask them and they responded to the query.
That "timing" had to do with withdrawal of Israeli troops, now underway. Now, given the bit about the bunkers (above), the goal posts are being moved by Hezbollah... again. And they’re using it as a reason to not honor what they said they’d honor. What a surprise.
But hey, I guess they need an apologist or two and you’re about as handy (and effective) as any. |
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Written By:
McQ
URL:
http://www.qando.net/blog
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I can tell the difference - Nasrallah has a better beard than Yassir was ever able to manage, and he doesn’t wear the traditional checkered table cloth headdress that Yassir was so fond of. |
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Written By:
looker
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actually the hesbos will wait for the UN peacekeepers to arrive before they really open fire again. That way the UN peacekeepers are killed in the crossfire by the Israelies (the hesbos will be shooting at civilians not the troops) stirring up more international criticism of Israel. |
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Written By:
Mac
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"And a UN that has been battling a negative image problem fo"
Only in the US, I think.
It appears to me that Hezbollah rules Lebanon in all but name. This works well for Hezbollah; they can use the entire country as a human shield. |
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Written By:
timactual
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Lebanese civilians were killed at a 10/1 ratio to Israeli civilians.
You can slice it and dice it anyway you want, but when you argue about a 10/1 civilian death ratio not being disporportionate, you’re making a mockery of the language.
Why is hizballah declaring victory anyway? Can’t you answer that yourself? If not, here’s Daniel Pipes, suprising me with lucidity today - in the second half, when he’s finished accusing the media of treason.
http://www.danielpipes.org/article/3849 |
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Written By:
glasnost
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Glasnost,
Its’ not Israel’s fault that Hezbullah rockets are not accurate. |
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Written By:
Harun
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Harum - Sure it is! level the playing field! No terrorist organization left behind! The IDF should be forced to contribute money to Hezbollah to achieve weapons parity! Up the UN! |
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Written By:
looker
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Harun, that may be true, but it doesn’t make what I’ve said untrue. It’s Israel’s fault that their targeting decisions were repeatedly reckless enough to have achieved civilian kills a factor of ten times higher than the terrorist group they were opposing. |
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Written By:
glasnost
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People making pronouncements on TV is only considered a "negotiation" in neo-conservative theology. Classical diplomacy requires that people talk to each other when they negotiate.
... and I’m not apologizing for Hezbollah. I’m just pointing out that you can negotiate with terrorists. The IRA sat down and made a deal. The PLO sat down and made a deal. When you say you can’t make a deal with these people then your only option is genocide ... which it seems that many here would condone.
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Written By:
cindyb
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People making pronouncements on TV is only considered a "negotiation" in neo-conservative theology. So words don’t mean things and leaders don’t speak for their groups.
OK, then, Cindy, nice talking with you. |
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Written By:
McQ
URL:
http://www.qando.net/blog
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The PLO sat down and made a deal.
And promptly broke it, just as they did every deal before that and every deal since. Thus proving, once again, there is no point in negotiating with them.
And, frankly, the IRA has been only marginally better at sticking to their word. And they’re a different case — their goal was not genocide. Hezballah’s is. Hamas’ is. Genocide is non-negotiable. |
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Written By:
Achillea
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IRA has been only marginally better at sticking to their word.
Neither is a) any given US leader b) the US in world affairs generally. Nobody’s good at sticking to their word out in the Jungle of International Relations. That does not in fact mean that there is no point in trying. Imperfectly kept agreements influence behavior in the direction of the agreement’s goals.
Hezballah’s is. Hamas’ is. Genocide is non-negotiable.
A lot of unhinged Arabs believe that Israel’s goal is genocide. We make fun of them. Correctly. I haven’t heard Hizballah or Hamas attempt to negotiate their right to commit genocide much. Most negotiations are about releasing prisoners, mutual cease-fires, land disputes and symbolic arguments. So, sure, genocide is non-negotiable. No one is considering negotiating it. So it’s not really relevant. |
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Written By:
glasnost
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So words don’t mean things and leaders don’t speak for their groups. Who said that?
I said that making pronouncements like "Hezbollah must disarm" is not a negotian. Sitting down with Hezbollah and saying "you disarm in the south and we will return your prisoners and rebuild your country" is a negotiation.
That’s how wars end and thats why Israel will never have peace.
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Written By:
cindyb
URL:
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I said that making pronouncements like "Hezbollah must disarm" is not a negotian. That’s not what I was talking about Cindy. Hezbollah agreed to the cease-fire terms. Nasrallah agreed to them personally, all by himself and in front of the world. |
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Written By:
McQ
URL:
http://www.qando.net/blog
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Written By:
OOOYY
URL:
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