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Juan Williams: "Enough"
Posted by: McQ on Saturday, September 02, 2006

I've never been much of a Juan Williams fan, but I have to say I may be changing my mind. He's written a book, "Enough" which addresses the problems of blacks in America. In fact, his subtitle is "The Phony Leaders, Dead-End Movements, and Culture of Failure That Are Undermining Black America - and What We Can Do About It".

It's the "what we can do about it" which intrigues me. Gregory Kane, writing about it, provides an example:
Williams also devoted an entire chapter to Hurricane Katrina and its aftermath. He dispelled the notion that the response of the Bush administration - or the lack of one - was based on race. Once that was done, Williams quickly posed the question of why poor black folks in New Orleans were still poor 40 years after President Lyndon B. Johnson declared his War on Poverty.

"Overall, about 35 percent of the city's black population lives in poverty," Williams writes of New Orleans. In another passage, he notes that "one-third of black people in the city never finished high school."
Now sit there a minute and consider those numbers. 35% in poverty. About 33% never finished highschool. Kane asks, "is there a link?"
"Oh, yes," Williams responded. "And there's a connection between people who don't finish high school and the prison rate. I don't remember what the exact figures are."
I've heard Walter Williams and others say any number of times: Get at least a high school education, get a job and stick with it, get married and stay with it. Do those things and chances are you succeed in life. Why? Because those who have succeeded in life on average have those characteristics in common. In an interview Juan Williams had with Walter Williams recently, I heard Juan say that he agreed exactly with that prescription.

Kane brings up another point:
Williams seemed genuinely surprised - and not in a good way - when I told him about how Baltimore's leaders are crowing about our town's stellar 60 percent graduation rate, which would put us some 7 percentage points below New Orleans, one of the poorest cities in the poorest region of the country.

"Yes, they are," I told Williams. "They're proud of it. They're strutting around like peacocks with their chests poked out from here to Havre de Grace."
Can you imagine considering a 60% graduation rate to be "stellar" (I know Kane was being sarcastic, but I also am sure Baltimore educators were proud of that number)? Talk about the tyranny of low expectations. Talk about failing at your job.

However, that said, educators aren't solely responsible for the failure to graduate 40% of those who attend high school. Much of that falls on parents and the culture.
Liberals and conservatives, Democrats and Republicans, Williams said, "never got around to [talking about] steps the poor could take to help themselves." The one man who was talking about it, and the one Williams praises throughout Enough, is Bill Cosby. Williams still remembers the controversial remarks Cosby made two years ago in Washington on the 50th anniversary remembrance of the Brown v. Board of Education decision.

"What [Cosby] did was he used [Brown] as a marker in time," Williams said. "What I remember most about his speech was his question 'What the hell good is Brown if nobody wants it?' That really resonated with me."
It should have. And it is good to see Juan Williams step forward and take a no-excuses look at what ails black culture in the US today. Like Bill Cosby, he doesn't take the convenient and traditional way out. He, instead, puts the problem right where it belongs, among the black population of the US. There are some that don't want to hear it. But it is something which needs to be said.

It is leadership like that of Cosby and Williams (both Juan and Walter), not Jackson and Sharpton, which will help blacks change the culture which presently hinders social and economic progress and swells the poverty rolls. Blacks in America would be smart to listen to him.
 
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Well, if you really do believe the white man is trying to keep you down, then why would you look to him for a solution?
 
Written By: Mark A. Flacy
URL: http://
The Phony Leaders...
This is one of the biggest problems, and potentially one of the easiest to fix. After all, nobody elected clowns such as Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. If the media would do their job and stop treating them as the de facto "leaders of the black community", then their influence would quickly wane and a much better discussion could take place on what to do about problems faced by that community.

But I don’t understand why the media treats Jesse, Al, et. al. with the reverence and kid glove treatment in the first place. So I don’t have a clue how to get them to stop.
 
Written By: Billy Hollis
URL: http://
But I don’t understand why the media treats Jesse, Al, et. al. with the reverence and kid glove treatment in the first place. So I don’t have a clue how to get them to stop.
I have often wondered about this myself, and the answer I came up with is twofold, one is that these characters are entertaining and make for good television (radio, print quotes), and the second is a bit more conspiratorial, that the media is essentially an agent of the status quo and thusting these clowns forward as leaders is the equivelant of a strawman argument, choosing the weakest opposing ideas to rebut.

Juan Williams is right, uneqivocally.

But it’s more complicated than this. Black people need to take ownership of their fate and never lay difficulties and failures at the doorstep of reppression, but at the same time, there is also no doubt whatsoever that centuries of reppression has a serious negative effect on the oppressed, effects which do not go away when the reppression ends (not that it has ended, but it certainly has improved in 150 years).

Some people are philosophically opposed to any kind of social legislation that could mitigate the effects of institutional discrimination, so recognition of the reality of the effects of this repression are irrelevant. Some people are support legislation to mitigate the effects of this repression, but are also quick to forgive any inidividaul failings as results of repression, giving truth to those that claim liberals will not accept personal accoutability.

For those not opposed to attempting to correct the effects of repression, the answer is to reward positive behavior, perhaps slightly more than society would reward such behaviors among groups that have not suffered centuries of repression, but never, never, reward ot fail to punish negative behaviors or crimes.

For those opposed to any government attempts to correct the effects of repression, there really is no point having this discussion, it starts and ends with the government having no business either way, interceding in this issue.

Affirmative Action does not place crack addicted 6th grade drop-puts in Harvard, but it does allow for a slightly greater number of role models of the power of making good choices.

I am going to get a lot of heat for this.

Cap


 
Written By: CaptinSarcastic (yeah, that one)
URL: http://
Flacy, Walter Williams is black. Thomas Sowell is black. Juan Williams, guess what, is black. Oh, and in case you didn’t notice, Bill Cosby is also black. Who here is trying to say that the black community should look to white people for a solution? Nobody. In fact we’re saying the opposite. Look to the black community, to people like Williams, Williams, and Cosby for the leadership and the solutions. They’ve put them out there often.
 
Written By: Ike
URL: http://
Look to the black community, to people like Williams, Williams, and Cosby for the leadership and the solutions. They’ve put them out there often.
Precisely.
 
Written By: McQ
URL: http://www.qando.net/blog
I’m really impressed. I’ve never found Juan Williams to be particularly convincing, but he’s dead right on this issue. No doubt Oliver will soon show up to mock Williams and Cosby as being inauthentically black and call us all Klansmen.
 
Written By: Jordan
URL: http://
I’ve never found Juan Williams to be particularly convincing...
Well I don’t know about convincing but there have been very few things he and I have agreed upon, but I’m like you, I’m impressed with his thinking on this and he admits it is a result of changing his mind and staring the facts right in the face. It has given me an entirely new perspective on Williams.
 
Written By: McQ
URL: http://www.qando.net/blog
Williams quickly posed the question of why poor black folks in New Orleans were still poor 40 years after President Lyndon B. Johnson declared his War on Poverty.
More to the point, those living in places like New Orleans or Detroit may want to start questioning why those cities were poverty-riddled hellholes despite decades of Democrat machine rule at the local (and oftentimes state) levels...or why it took a Republican to actually clean up New York
 
Written By: Shark
URL: http://
The question is, however, will Williams start taking to task the poverty pimps of the Democratic party? You know... the party he’s been the apologist for, for so very long.

Somehow, I have to believe that his enlightenment is not going to extend quite so far.
 
Written By: Bithead
URL: http://bitheads.blogspot.com
Wait till you read my book about the Irish and all the problems we have caused in this country. We are all a bunch of stinky drunks, who beat our wives and who tend to go into abusive power-mad professions like police work, politics and the military. You will love the chapter on the Irish mob and how we violated all the laws of the U.S. to run liquor into the country in the 1920’s. Hopefully, with my leadership, we can realize just how degenerate Irish people all are and they can finally get the help they need to stop dragging down the nation.
 
Written By: william
URL: http://
It finally sunk in that this was yet another example of our parents being right all along after my wife, who works for the state workforce commission, quoted me some statistical facts: the average high school diploma holder makes twice as much as the average high school drop-out, the average college graduate makes twice as much as the average high school graduate, the average advanced degree holder earns twice as much sa the four-year graduates, and the professional degree holders earn twice as much as the average advanced degree holders.

Williams, Cosby et. al. are completely correct, it’s all about education and more or less always has been. I can still hear the words my grandfather, a high school graduate, he uttered years ago before he passed away: "you can work with your back or you can work with your brain, and it all depends on which is strongest."

yours/
peter.
 
Written By: Peter Jackson
URL: http://www.liberalcapitalist.com
It seems to me that the quintessential essence of the American way is the opportunity to find and enact the solutions within yourself. Black people are proving themselves worthy every day, in every way, in every field of endeavor. But not all black people, just the ones who bother to strive for such things. Just like it is with white folks.

People who get their share of the American dream are those who get up and pursue it, or inherit it from those who did. So unless you’ve got a rich daddy, you make your own way. If you choose to settle for what the government will hand you, you don’t deserve any more than you’ll get, which is mandated charity from people who are more productive than you are.
 
Written By: Pablo
URL: http://
Who here is trying to say that the black community should look to white people for a solution? Nobody. In fact we’re saying the opposite.
Good for you. What the h*ll did you think I was saying?
 
Written By: Mark A. Flacy
URL: http://
Cap’n Sarcastic - But it’s more complicated than this. Black people need to take ownership of their fate and never lay difficulties and failures at the doorstep of reppression, but at the same time, there is also no doubt whatsoever that centuries of reppression has a serious negative effect on the oppressed, effects which do not go away when the reppression ends (not that it has ended, but it certainly has improved in 150 years).

Under the Oppressor-Oppressed meme, about 5 billion of the world’s 6 billion can consider themselves "oppressed" at the same or far greater level than the American black. Many "oppressed" far more recently, with a far lower standard of living than American blacks had in 1960. Outside Black Africa, certain Muslim Countries, and Myanmar - those "past-oppressed peoples" have done pretty well. Some spectacularly. I think because somebody forgot to say they were oppressed and deserved a handout.

I liken the black underclass of NOLA to the Palestinians. So convinced that they were entitled to stuff for doing nothing other than victim-whining, so indoctrinated that their condistion was not in any way their fault, but the fault of others...That, as years have past despite billions in aid and special programs and people all nodding so sympathetically to their innumerable "facts of victimhood" - that their living conditions, crime rates, joblessness..has actually deteriorated since the "worst days of oppression" when they got no massive cash infusions, accomodations, and apologies from the guilty.

When I saw blacks sitting in their own garbage and feces in NOLA or on house rooftops they couldn’t be bothered to even try and evacuate from, after all the good stuff had been looted from stores they could wade to - demanding someone pick up after them and put them back on their feet and room&board them and look after "they chilluns" until whites and Mexicans rebuilt NOLA - I saw the ultimate failure of the welfare state in the scenes of NOLA and the hostility they show to Texans. Not what the media saw - nothing but government failure to "help" those who failed to help themselves in any significant way.

Half of New Orleans, after businesses began relocating in the 60s, eventually became parastic rather than seek work elsewhere. Along the way, the high crime and taxes caused more contributors to flee NOLA, money that should have gone to infrastructure like police, communications, levee maintenance - was diverted into new voter-pleasing entitlements, and competent local leadership gave way to inept poverty pimp employees. Putting the city in a further downward spiral.

NOLA should have been a wakeup call on the failed welfare state where parasites exist one power outage or check away from barbarism. Instead, the only focus blacks, until Juan Williams, made, was on "government services failures" and their "right of return". And the media abetted this rather than state the unsavory and embarassing to liberals truth - because government agencies and Bush made tempting targets.

Pity. As someone said recently, America used to be the country that could build the Empire State Building in 1 year 40 days, or the entire core Interstate Highway system in 7 years, have a man on the moon 6 years and 8 months after a President said we should go there.

Now we have NOLA, and as Nagin correctly observed in poor PC-speak but telling truth nevertheless - a big hole in the ground -after 5 years - in NYC.

 
Written By: C. Ford
URL: http://
Under the Oppressor-Oppressed meme, about 5 billion of the world’s 6 billion can consider themselves "oppressed" at the same or far greater level than the American black....
I expected this response, it always the very first kneejerk response to any suggestion that repression has an effect that goes beyond the repression itself.

And I agree it is a tricky equation, how do you try and address the fact that repression can render the repressed portion of the population without sending the message to the repressed portion of the population that they don’t need to be accountable for their success? I believe the answer is the topic of this article, leadership from people with the point of view of Juan William or Bill Cosby, that people are responsible for their own lives, no matter what happened to them or their ancestors in the past. At the sime time having some programs in place to assist those that are willing to help themselves.
those "past-oppressed peoples" have done pretty well. Some spectacularly. I think because somebody forgot to say they were oppressed and deserved a handout.
When an entire population is repressed and the repression ends, the population begins on a relatively equal footing, so their is no competititve chasm between the former oppressed and the oppressor group.

When a minority population is repressed by the majority, and that repression ends, the repressed segment will always lag as a result of the effects of long term oppression. Unless steps are taken to provide some equalization. I do not believe that there is any genetic inferiority of blacks as compared to whites in America, and it has been shown over and over again that repressed minorities exhibit a lower IQ (about 15 points) as compared to their oppressors, even when they come from the same genetic stock. This difference disapears when the oppressed leave their caste type systems.

So my point is that there has been damage caused by our society, or if you prefer, the antecedents of out society, and telling the repressed to pull themselves up by their bootstraps is a part of the solution, but alone it will not work, the effects have to be reversed. Arguing against this is akin to damaging the brains of every black person born, and then complaining that they are inferior.

Now, there is an argument that says that even though all of this true, and it is, that it should be ignored and we should pretend it does not exist so that blacks don’t think they are owed anything. I call this the stupid ostrich argument.

Cap

So my point is that



 
Written By: CaptinSarcastic (yeah, that one)
URL: http://
So my point is that there has been damage caused by our society, or if you prefer, the antecedents of out society, and telling the repressed to pull themselves up by their bootstraps is a part of the solution, but alone it will not work, the effects have to be reversed...
Except your argument founders on the ASIAN-American experience. White folks did not love them either. White folks did not treat them well either. OR JEWS, you forget most Jews that came tot he US were poor and could only work menial jobs. There was discrimination against them, too. Both groups, on the average out-perform(ed) Blacks. Just saying that the Majority repressed me, does not mean a thing, the majority oppressed MY PEOPLE too, yet I don’t merit or deserve Federal Affirmative Action. This idea that because your grandfather was put upon by someone else’s grandfather means that YOU have some kind of stigma, disability or special right to something is simply silly.

No African American alive, today has been a slave and none know any slaves. In the 1950’s, Jim Crowe, Blacks performed well, when allowed. NOW, AFTER the Civil RIghts Movement triumphed they’ve stumbled? IF so it’s not Jim or Nguyen’s fault and penalizing THEM is just silly and immoral. Especially when you look at Moshe or Nguyen’s past and see achievemnt in the face of repression.
 
Written By: Joe
URL: http://
The problem with using government to solve the lingering effects of institutionalized racism is that the tool it usually relies on is more institutionalized racism.
 
Written By: Jordan
URL: http://
When Spike Lee did his film about Malcolm X, I was hoping that he would use this film to help pivot the Black communities as to the need for Blacks to raise themselves up through education. This was something that Malcolm X believed.
Instead Spike did the PC "South African" tripe at the end of the movie. Opportunity lost.
 
Written By: Neo
URL: http://
I think blacks looked to the liberal Democratic Party because the Republicans stuck with their position on civil rights as a states right issue. Scroll down to the picture of Citizen’s Council road sign. We all new what that meant. I felt betrayed.

My question is why are white people so concerned with what blacks are doing, especially since were are supposed to find our own solutions? Since we are only 13 percent of the population, if every one of us was on walfare or getting government assistance we would not be 50 percent of those people who are getting that assistance. It seems that you are only bothered by your taxes paying the way for some black person. You also act if only those black pundits or leaders you pick, has said anything of any consequence. You don’t notice the other critiques from blacks, because you don’t know enough about our society or that black person has made you uncomfortable. If there is any tinge of white guilt or responsibility in what that black person says, that totally negates anything else he would have to say; even if his observations are true and his solutions could solve some of the problems. When I disagree about race, the response to the comments I have made here has proven to me how you categorize black people. I wish there could be some conversation about race, but what I have seen hear and elsewhere in the media, I just wish white folks would just shut up.

 
Written By: VRB
URL: http://
Except your argument founders on the ASIAN-American experience.


From my earlier post... "This difference disapears when the oppressed leave their caste type systems."

You have actually strengthened my argument, noting that when Asians leave their caste system and come to America, or anywhere else, the effects of their institutional repression disappear. When African Americans leave America for parts of Europe, the results are the same, the effects of the institutional repression disappear.
NOW, AFTER the Civil RIghts Movement triumphed they’ve stumbled?
I beg to differ, and have the facts to back me up. The African American community is moving, albeit far to slowly toward parity. I think you may be a victim of some misinformation distributed for the purpose of claiming that certain steps taken to reverse the affects of institutional repression were failures.

Current information points to a continuation of a long-term trend toward parity with national levels and absolutely higher levels of affluence than those experienced by most populations outside the United States. Since the mid to late 1990’s, African American incomes have risen at a remarkable pace and the progress shows up at every income level - from the still-large but shrinking underclass, to the fast-developing black middle class, to the growing ranks of wealthy African Americans. Over 1.7 million African Americans have gone off the poverty rolls; earnings by African American women have moved to within a few percentage points of white womens’; and unemployment among blacks in recent years has dropped below the 10 percent mark. The poverty rate among African Americans has dropped from 26.5% in 1998 to 24.7% in 2004. [11] The growth in African American incomes is translating into big gains in buying power and opportunities for black businesses.

So I go back to my original point, self reliance is a critical state of mind for black Americans, but this alone will not counter the effects of long term institutional repression, there needs to be other steps which include rewarding that self reliance somewhat more than society would already reward such behavior.

But by the same token, I do agree that straight out handouts are a bad idea.

Cap

Lager Ackbar
 
Written By: CaptinSarcastic (yeah, that one)
URL: http://
The problem with using government to solve the lingering effects of institutionalized racism is that the tool it usually relies on is more institutionalized racism.


That’s why I was a Republican for a long time, I wanted more intelligent, results based programs, not handouts that rewarded destructive behaviors. That is what I thought the Republican party was going to do.

Alas, I was wrong, and the people who used to say that the Republican Party was racist were more right than I was. They had no interest in better solutions, they just wanted no solutions, or worse, watered down versions of the bad solutions.

I am not terribly confident that the Demcoratic Party is now going to become intelligent and effective, but the difference I see is that Democrats are willing to try and make this difference.

This is of course contrary to those who claim that Democrats merely pander to welfare recipients, because we know how large of a voting block welfare recipients are. (that was sarcasm, in case someone actually thinks welfare recipients make a voting block at all)

Cap


 
Written By: CaptinSarcastic (yeah, that one)
URL: http://
Alas, I was wrong, and the people who used to say that the Republican Party was racist were more right than I was.
Yeah, it’s racist not to give racial preferences *rolls eyes*.
I am not terribly confident that the Demcoratic Party is now going to become intelligent and effective, but the difference I see is that Democrats are willing to try and make this difference.
By all means, let’s fight institutionalized racism with more institutionalized racism.
My question is why are white people so concerned with what blacks are doing, especially since were are supposed to find our own solutions?
Uh, maybe because we don’t care about race? We are concerned about all of our fellow Americans.
It seems that you are only bothered by your taxes paying the way for some black person.
I don’t recall anyone here saying that. Care to construct any more strawmen? I’m bothered by my taxes paying for anyone’s welfare.
If there is any tinge of white guilt or responsibility in what that black person says, that totally negates anything else he would have to say; even if his observations are true and his solutions could solve some of the problems.
Hmmm... that may have something to do with the fact that none of us have ever owned slaves. If you want to punish people because their ancestors may have participated in slavery, then you’re going to have a long list, starting in Africa and the Middle East.
 
Written By: Jordan
URL: http://
Yeah, it’s racist not to give racial preferences *rolls eyes*.
My comment was poorly constructed, though accurate. When I said, "Alas, I was wrong, and the people who used to say that the Republican Party was racist were more right than I was.", It was not so much because the Republican Party is racist, though there are certainly elements, it is because I was wrong, and the people who called the Republican party racists were more right than I was about what Republicans would do with power.

You seem to be very comfortable with your belief that under all circumstances, racial preferences are wrong. I have to wonder if you have any understanding or even curiousity about the effects of institutional repression, of if your mantra of "racial preferences are wrong" precludes you from intellectual curiousity in this area?

What if you learned that the following elements were factually true, how would you feel about policies to correct the situation...

1. American blacks as a group are suffering the effects of institutional repression.
2. These effects put American blacks as a group at a competitive disadvantage to the population ar large.
3. The effects of this institutional repression will never go away, even if the repression does go away, if steps are not taken to reverse the effects.
4. The cost to society of not correcting the effects of institutional repression will be greater than costs of reversing the affects.

Will you answer this question, directly, and honestly, or will you evade it in favor of repeating the mantra?

If you believe that even if all of the above were true, we should take no steps, then we have nothing to discuss, but if you disagree that the items above are true, then please tell me what factual basis you have for your disagreement.

Cap
 
Written By: CaptinSarcastic (yeah, that one)
URL: http://
Even if they are true, it doesn’t matter. Racism is wrong, no matter how you try and explain it away.
 
Written By: Jordan
URL: http://
I should add that it is possible to find non-race based solutions. For example, rather than take race into account in university admissions, universities can make more need based financial aid available. My school (Texas A&M) has had great success in this area. See here.
 
Written By: Jordan
URL: http://
If there is any tinge of white guilt or responsibility in what that black person says, that totally negates anything else he would have to say; even if his observations are true and his solutions could solve some of the problems.
Jordan,
That "anything else" refers to black people. You are not always so special. Just my speaking is irritating you, because instead of reading my statement you make assumptions.

Why haven’t I heard of this concern before from the consevatives, libertarians, and neo-libertarians. Not had any kind of strong outcry about our rights. Nothing ever about our property rights as we been moved about for the "good" of the community. Uppermiddle class whites have more rights in our neighborhoods. Do you assume the poor never own property? The most discussion has been about vouchers. Even though the public schools were good enough for whites, it now can’t be for blacks. It is assuming every black parent wants their child have the just the basic education. No art, music, honors courses or other sports besides basketball or football. That would cost too much money. It assumes the private institution would be the parochial school. We would never want our child to have the same education of the middle class white child.

Reagan began his conversation about welfare reform, with the scenario of the "Welfare Queen." Now what do you supposed that meant to the general white public. Conservatives have created a whole new set of buzz words; like soft on crime and we need more procecutions of crime. The general white public thinks, if only all those n*gg*s were in jail, we would not have all this crime. If you say you haven’t heard this, then you live in a bubble.

I don’t put much stock in the conservative black pundits, who don’t speak to black people; they only discuss those idea around white folks or publish where black folk would not normally read. Their motive could be fifteen minutes of fame. Sometime it seems as minstrel. There are blacks with conservative views who do work within the black community and are trying to implement their ideas. They are not in the media all the time.

I hardly ever see where white people try to change the discourse of white people who still have racist attitudes or streotypes. I noticed in one instance, I was visiously attacked and no one during those conversations thought it was neccessary to disapprove. Just why was that? I don’t mean to defend me, but to condem the behavior. Was I not the kind of Negro that was worthy?
 
Written By: VRB
URL: http://
I should add that it is possible to find non-race based solutions. For example, rather than take race into account in university admissions, universities can make more need based financial aid available. My school (Texas A&M) has had great success in this area.
Absolutely, I agree, there is no necessity that the solution be race based, as long it works, I’m on board.

Cap
 
Written By: CaptinSarcastic (yeah, that one)
URL: http://
Look VRB, when I asked if you wanted to construct any more strawmen, I wasn’t actually serious. Put down the bail of hay, please. I don’t know what you actually expect to accomplish when you begin with the assumption that everyone who opposes you is racist. That kind of thinking certainly isn’t going to further the debate.
I hardly ever see where white people try to change the discourse of white people who still have racist attitudes or streotypes. I noticed in one instance, I was visiously attacked and no one during those conversations thought it was neccessary to disapprove. Just why was that? I don’t mean to defend me, but to condem the behavior. Was I not the kind of Negro that was worthy?
Well, nobody called you a racist name, for starters. And I generally assume people are big enough to stand up for themselves. I’m sorry I was mistaken, in your case.
Reagan began his conversation about welfare reform, with the scenario of the "Welfare Queen." Now what do you supposed that meant to the general white public.
I’m sorry I can’t read minds. And I have a sneaking suspicion that you can’t either.
 
Written By: Jordan
URL: http://
I don’t know what you actually expect to accomplish when you begin with the assumption that everyone who opposes you is racist.
Bah. I meant to say "disagrees" instead of "opposes."
 
Written By: Jordan
URL: http://
Jordan,
I am sorry, I was not refering to this post, but the comment was made on this blog.

Its not a matter of mindreading, it a matter of listening what some white people have said. When you hear those comments about a certain neighborhood, you think, who else are they talking about. There are more white people now who don’t even try to hide what they are thinking. Being PC is out of style. I would suggest you listen more closely to young people.

How did "bale of hay" enter into your vocabulary?

Did you check out that sign? That is how Jim Crow had a way with words and symbols.
 
Written By: VRB
URL: http://
Being PC is out of style. I would suggest you listen more closely to young people.
Not being politically correct is far from being racist. And I am young. Asserting that everybody is racist does not make it so. You have yet to provide a shred of evidence for any single assertion you’ve made.
How did "bale of hay" enter into your vocabulary?
In much the same way that most other words did...
Did you check out that sign? That is how Jim Crow had a way with words and symbols.
You’ve completely lost me. What sign? And how can a non-entity have a way with words and symbols?
 
Written By: Jordan
URL: http://
Jordan,

I was speaking of the link "states right" in my first comment after another comment which referenced Malcolm X. Follow the directions you will see the sign. You should understand.

Not being PC gives some people the justification to make racist statements.
 
Written By: VRB
URL: http://
Well, VRB ... I’m black myself, but quite frankly I simply cannot see what it is you’re complaining about.

I mean, I have a BSc and Masters in Computer Systems Engineering, what in the name of all that is Holy does the white man have to do with it? And exactly how is it that you seem to know what white people are thinking? In other words, you seem determined to pick up the mantle of victimhood and wrap yourself up in it.

    I noticed in one instance, I was visiously attacked and no one during those conversations thought it was neccessary to disapprove. Just why was that? I don’t mean to defend me, but to condem the behavior. Was I not the kind of Negro that was worthy?


I mean, how pathetic is it that you’re complaining that no-one came to condemn another guy for arguing vigorously in opposition to you? What makes you so special that everyone is meant to drop what they’re doing to do for you what they never do for anybody else? Why the heck is the only thing you can attribute it to, to your race?

Quite frankly, I don’t really see why I ought to give a damn what some white man thinks, it didn’t stop me from picking up a book or going to class. It didn’t make it impossible for me to comprehend what I was reading or learn to solve a quadratic equation. My destiny is in my hands. I will not insult the rest of my brothers and sisters by assuming they are any less capable of seizing their own destiny than I am.

It’s not "minstrelry" to point out that dropping out of school is a path to destruction and quite frankly all this talk about "code" or "buzz" words is just as idiotic as assuming you not only know what white people are thinking, but how they react to certain words that are quite frankly innocuous.

Guess what? This victimhood nonsense doesn’t really advance anything. This is not 1966, 76, 86, or even 96. Grow the hell up.
 
Written By: Martin A. Knight
URL: http://
" When I disagree about race, the response to the comments I have made here has proven to me how you categorize black people"

It must be a great burden, being the embodiment or spokesman of all black people.

************

"You have actually strengthened my argument, noting that when Asians leave their caste system and come to America, or anywhere else, the effects of their institutional repression disappear. When African Americans leave America for parts of Europe, the results are the same, the effects of the institutional repression disappear."

I would think it probable that the emigres are not typical of their entire groups. These emigres, as a group, might succeed even if they stayed home. Without proof, one theory is as good as another.

*************

"The African American community is moving, albeit far to slowly toward parity."

Who said they weren’t moving up? Apart, tht is, from Jesse, Al, etc.

***************

"The most discussion has been about vouchers. Even though the public schools were good enough for whites, it now can’t be for blacks..."

What on earth are you talking about? It is impossible to respond to an incoherent, error filled argument such as this.

************

"I noticed in one instance, I was visiously attacked and no one during those conversations thought it was neccessary to disapprove. Just why was that?"

Perhaps because they were treating you the same as they treat anyone else who risks being attacked or insulted by posting here.

*************

" Conservatives have created a whole new set of buzz words; like soft on crime and we need more procecutions of crime"

Uh oh! We are in trouble now! He has broken our code!! Somebody’s secret decoder ring fell into the wrong hands. Probably stolen by one of THOSE people.

*************
" Was I not the kind of Negro that was worthy?"

Once again, you seem to think that you are the avatar of African-Americans. What is your hat size, about 27 3/4? Guess what, dude, IT’S YOU. Try not identifying yourself by race in your comments. I guarantee you will still be attacked, just like white folks are(assuming, of course, that the racially unidentified attack victims on this blog are proportionately white).

*****************

"How did "bale of hay" enter into your vocabulary?"

Uh, perhaps because the previous sentence mentioned "strawmen"? Straw-hay, straw-hay. Get it? I suppose if I said that this shows what a city slicker you are you would say I was referring to "those neighborhoods". One word—paranoia. Get some therapy. There are good black psychiatrists.

*******************

" Well, VRB ... I’m black myself,.."

Yeah, right. Got any proof? We all know that there are no black scientists, mathemeticians, engineers, etc. Only black lawyers. And even if you were, you would be just a tool of the white man.



 
Written By: timactual
URL: http://
Martin and timeactual,
It was not an argument that I was speaking of and it was on another post. I did defend myself, but I thought someone should have spoke to that persons behavior when he called me a "MF" in order to disparage what I had said. No one else that I’ve seen on a blog has been called such. Yes, it just could my idea that one should respond differently in a public forum. If I am suppected of calling someone a racist I get ganged up on; that person can call me a "MF" and nothing is said. Wow!

Apparently when I mention certain words,like"minstrel," they become buzz words. Read more carefully what I said.

I am not here to pass a some black conservative litmus test. You do not know what my background is.

I have my opinions, and I try to convince others what I saying. What I don’t understand, why do I become the center of attention.

I have been in the world long enough to know a lot about white people and to know a racist when I see or hear one. BTW I have not called anyone here a racist.

Yes, I am a city slicker. Both references went over my head.
 
Written By: VRB
URL: http://
I have been in the world long enough to know a lot about white people and to know a racist when I see or hear one.
I’ve been in this world for a pretty long time myself. Would you like to hear what I know about black people and how I can tell a racist when I see or hear one?
 
Written By: Pablo
URL: http://
"It was not an argument that I was speaking of and it was on another post."

But it applies to all white folks, anyway, right? And there were absolutely no other uses of MF or similar insults on that blog? Frankly, I don’t believe you. What blog was it?

*****************
"What I don’t understand, why do I become the center of attention"

Perhaps it is because you are the only one saying what you are saying. As I said, it’s personal, dude. If I were to say something really stupid(As if!) I would become the center of attention, too.

*******************
"Both references went over my head"

Why am I not surprised? Evidently you are a product of affirmative action, and no one, other than on the internet, has pointed out to you your ignorance.
 
Written By: timactual
URL: http://
Lost and Soldout!

Filthy rich negros who have lost their collective souls. How soon we all forget, it was those UNEDUCATED, POOR, men and women who boycotted the apartheid southern establishment into economic submission. Yall take for granted eating at a restaurant, watching a movie in a theater, staying at a hotel of your choosing. Those illeterate Negros built the bridges that you walked across, the ones that you take for granted. They are not the doormats that you can just wipe your collective black underclass shame.

Shame on Juan Williams, of all people, Mr. Eyes on the Prize! One of the true test of literacy is reading comprehension. How could he or any one of yall read the history of Southern Louisianna, with it’s auction blocks and slave ports, Homer A. Plessy v. John H. Ferguson. Yall need to educate yourselves. Don’t read some propagandist, recycled, negrophopic, opinion history; afterall, it’s 2006, read the primary sources in the original text.

And next time you see some uneducated, white-haired, toothless, little old lady in a wheel chair sitting for three days helplessly on an interstate overpass, thank her for the freedoms that you enjoy today.
 
Written By: Ron Edwards
URL: http://
Lost and Soldout!

Filthy rich negros who have lost their collective souls. How soon we all forget, it was those UNEDUCATED, POOR, men and women who boycotted the apartheid southern establishment into economic submission. Yall take for granted eating at a restaurant, watching a movie in a theater, staying at a hotel of your choosing. Those illeterate Negros built the bridges that you walked across, the ones that you take for granted. They are not the doormats that you can just wipe your collective black underclass shame.

Shame on Juan Williams, of all people, Mr. Eyes on the Prize! One of the true test of literacy is reading comprehension. How could he or any one of yall read the history of Southern Louisianna, with it’s auction blocks and slave ports, Homer A. Plessy v. John H. Ferguson. Yall need to educate yourselves. Don’t read some propagandist, recycled, negrophopic, opinion history; afterall, it’s 2006, read the primary sources in the original text.

And next time you see some uneducated, white-haired, toothless, little old lady in a wheel chair sitting for three days helplessly on an interstate overpass, thank her for the freedoms that you enjoy today.
 
Written By: Ron Edwards
URL: http://
Lost and Soldout!

Filthy rich negros who have lost their collective souls. How soon we all forget, it was those UNEDUCATED, POOR, men and women who boycotted the apartheid southern establishment into economic submission. Yall take for granted eating at a restaurant, watching a movie in a theater, staying at a hotel of your choosing. Those illeterate Negros built the bridges that you walked across, the ones that you take for granted. They are not the doormats that you can just wipe your collective black underclass shame.

Shame on Juan Williams, of all people, Mr. Eyes on the Prize! One of the true test of literacy is reading comprehension. How could he or any one of yall read the history of Southern Louisianna, with it’s auction blocks and slave ports, Homer A. Plessy v. John H. Ferguson. Yall need to educate yourselves. Don’t read some propagandist, recycled, negrophopic, opinion history; afterall, it’s 2006, read the primary sources in the original text.

And next time you see some uneducated, white-haired, toothless, little old lady in a wheel chair sitting for three days helplessly on an interstate overpass, thank her for the freedoms that you enjoy today.
 
Written By: Ron Edwards
URL: http://
I think the most important message of the book really is what Williams says about the path the to being succesful - get educated, wait to get married, never drop out of the workforce etc. The book is written primarily for black people but that message is truly important for all to hear. These are not problems specific to race. As a person who lives in a rurual area with about 90% white people, I see the tremendous disadvantages white people have when they drop out of school or have children out of wedlock. And, it seems I am seeing more and more of this type of behavior.

The other interesting element is the idea of responsibility that blacks have to other blacks that seems to hinder efforts for improvement. When I see some white high school dropout - I don’t feel bad about my race because he/she dropped out. And, I wouldn’t feel the slightest tinge of guilt in making the statement that white dropouts are bringing the country down. But when you are part of a minority of any kind be it race, gender etc. there seems to be some sort of responsibility to represent that minority, make excuses for it, and fight those who are not members when they suggest ideas for change. It’s a big disadvantage and those of us who live in the majority rarely think about it.

I heard Juan being interviewed by Al Franken and Franken was really in favor with most parts of the book except for the idea that others (whites, I assume) would use the book as ammunition against blacks to bolster their racism. Maybe in some instances that is true but in the grand scheme of things - who cares? Isn’t it more important to make progress. Like I’ve said these problems are in no way specific to just blacks - they are becoming more and more universal in every race. Juan is simply saying to his race that they need to fix it.
 
Written By: Mike T
URL: http://

 
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