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This just pisses me off
Posted by: mcq on Thursday, September 21, 2006

OK, we have armor debunking post one.

And we have piling on.

The producers of the ad have been made aware that their claims are false.

Does this stop the detestable frauds at "".

Nope, they've just changed Senators and are "redeploying" the ad, running it in another race.

It's one thing to make a mistake about something. We all do it. But when it is pointed out that you are factually wrong and it is done with irrefutable evidence, it stops being a mistake if you continue saying the same thing. If you do that, then you are then nothing more than a low-down liar.

And Pete Granato and those responsible for the ad are precisely that.

Oh, and please, please sue me for defamation and slander (disclaimer: this is not the opinion of Jon Henke or Dale Franks, nor does it represent the opinion of QandO nor do they bear any responsiblity for what I say here. It is my opinion and I'm damn easy to find).


I imagine I would have little problem finding a lawyer to take the case and I'd certainly have no problem taking as a just reward the little war chest your organization has put together to spread these lies.

Lyin' SOBs.

Yeah, I'm pissed.
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Previous Comments to this Post 

Actually they would have great difficulty finding a lawyer to sue you. Truth is an absolute defense to libel/slander.
Written By: MichaelW
My only question is where are the media news outlets that are crying foul at Where is NBC running even a 30 second bit saying something like, "In Virginia an oranization has run a political ad that turns out to be false"; do we get anything like that from any sector other than blogs/internet? Hello local editor sections in VA papers, do your readers a service please.
Written By: Ike
URL: http://
Right now I feel like Yosemite Sam after Bugs has turned the cannon on him.

"That just buuuurrrrrrnnnnsss me up!"
Written By: McQ
Any way to figure out which outlets in PA will be approached to run the ad? Can they be reached with all of the information you’ve developed? It’s one thing to run the ad and then sy you didn’t know about the real story, it’s another entirely to run the ad in the face of exculpatory evidence delivered to your door via certified mail.
Written By: S.
URL: http://
Hey Mac c’mon. Quite being diplomatic. Tell us how you really feel.
BTW this is still nothing compared to Rathergate. Even being a politicaly motivated lie; as was Rathergate.
Written By: Rodney A Stanton
URL: http://
Yes I noticed how the distinction between being a flak jacket and a PAGST vest enhanced the ability of the vest in the ad to stop AK47 bullets. I’m sure understanding that this vest was left over from 1982 not 1972 was a great comfort to the guys taking AK fire right through it.

And yes, I know there is a possible addition to the this vest that would increase its protection. But do we have any reason to believe this addition was available in large numbers to our reservists in Iraq? Even Fox News calls what our guys were using "enhanced versions of the Vietnam-era flak jacket". Changing the phrase to "left over from Greneda" isn’t going to make the reservists with the inferior equipment come back to life or make the republicans’ vote against funding better equipment for the reserves less obnoxious.
Written By: Retief
URL: http://
It’s my understanding that this vest wasn’t "left over" from 1982, but the standard issue vest for all of the 90’s. New Interceptor vests are being phased in from 2000-2006 or so. Being reservists and not the front line soldiers, they naturally were not the first to recieve the new improved vest. Maybe you wanted the company to manufacture them faster? The bureaucracy to issue them quicker somehow? I’m not sure what better outcome you want to see retief, other than someone waving a magic wand to make it all perfect.
Written By: ChrisB
URL: http://
" Even Fox News calls..."

Not that Fox is any worse than the rest, but relying on any television news for anything other than a general overview of events is not prudent. Particularly when it comes to anything related to the military.
Written By: timactual
URL: http://
But do we have any reason to believe this addition was available in large numbers to our reservists in Iraq?
Do yourself a favor Retief, and familiarize yourself with how procurement works in the military. First there has to be a need identified. Until the occupation of Iraq, no need for mass quantities of individual personal armor (IPA) was identified. The flak vest were all the vast majority of those involved needed and they functioned well. So the ’80s era flak vest was perfectly standard and perfectly servicable for the invasion (that would be 2003). The newly identified need for all troops (and not just Special Operations) to have personal armor (note the word. Not protection from shrapnel, but bullets) wasn’t evident until after the invasion.

With the convergence of technology and need, IPA was developed. However there were production and quality problems discovered during the production problems. Still, the military moved remarkably quickly to fill the need.
Even Fox News calls what our guys were using "enhanced versions of the Vietnam-era flak jacket"
Very enhanced ... kevlar v. nylon (or really the plates were called "Doron"). That’s not even close to the VN era vest. Two to three times the stopping power. Flexible. Light. So other than them both being "vests", there’s nothing similar between the two other than purpose. Both vests were never anything but flak vests.

IPA is a completely different animal.
Written By: McQ
Can’t blame ya here, McQ.
Not unexpected, though... not really.
Written By: Bithead

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