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(UPDATED x 5) Thank goodness he lost
Posted by: McQ on Tuesday, October 31, 2006

John Kerry is an idiot:
“You know, education, if you make the most of it, if you study hard and you do your homework, and you make an effort to be smart, uh, you, you can do well. If you don’t, you get stuck in Iraq.”
Right ... no other reason to join the military than not being bright enough or hard working enough to do anything else, huh John? This chump never learns.

A**hole.

UPDATE: Some commenters have suggested that Kerry was talking about the Bush administration. Given the fact he was talking to a college crowd in California, I'm not buying. Apparently John McCain isn't buying either:
Senator Kerry owes an apology to the many thousands of Americans serving in Iraq, who answered their country's call because they are patriots and not because of any deficiencies in their education. Americans from all backgrounds, well off and less fortunate, with high school diplomas and graduate degrees, take seriously their duty to our country, and risk their lives today to defend the rest of us in Iraq, Afghanistan, and elsewhere.

They all deserve our respect and deepest gratitude for their service. The suggestion that only the least educated Americans would agree to serve in the military and fight in Iraq, is an insult to every soldier serving in combat, and should deeply offend any American with an ounce of appreciation for what they suffer and risk so that the rest of us can sleep more comfortably at night. Without them, we wouldn't live in a country where people securely possess all their God-given rights, including the right to express insensitive, ill-considered and uninformed remarks.
[HT: Stop the ACLU]

UPDATE II: Kerry's response to the criticism of his idiotic remark:
“If anyone thinks a veteran would criticize the more than 140,000 heroes serving in Iraq and not the president who got us stuck there, they're crazy. This is the classic G.O.P. playbook. I’m sick and tired of these despicable Republican attacks that always seem to come from those who never can be found to serve in war, but love to attack those who did.

I’m not going to be lectured by a stuffed suit White House mouthpiece standing behind a podium, or doughy Rush Limbaugh, who no doubt today will take a break from belittling Michael J. Fox’s Parkinson’s disease to start lying about me just as they have lied about Iraq. It disgusts me that these Republican hacks, who have never worn the uniform of our country lie and distort so blatantly and carelessly about those who have.

The people who owe our troops an apology are George W. Bush and Dick Cheney who misled America into war and have given us a Katrina foreign policy that has betrayed our ideals, killed and maimed our soldiers, and widened the terrorist threat instead of defeating it. These Republicans are afraid to debate veterans who live and breathe the concerns of our troops, not the empty slogans of an Administration that sent our brave troops to war without body armor.

Bottom line, these Republicans want to debate straw men because they’re afraid to debate real men. And this time it won’t work because we’re going to stay in their face with the truth and deny them even a sliver of light for their distortions. No Democrat will be bullied by an administration that has a cut and run policy in Afghanistan and a stand still and lose strategy in Iraq.”
So Kerry opts for the version which claims he was talking about Bush. Irony? He's "sick and tired of despicable attacks" while catching flak for making a despicable attack.

UPDATE III: The American Legion isn't buying the Kerry version either. National Commander Paul A. Morin:
As a constituent of Senator Kerry's I am disappointed. As leader of The American Legion, I am outraged. A generation ago, Sen. Kerry slandered his comrades in Vietnam by saying that they were rapists and murderers. It wasn't true then and his warped view of today's heroes isn't true now.

While The American Legion shares the senator's appreciation for education, the troops in Iraq represent the most sophisticated, technologically superior military that the world has ever seen. I think there is a thing or two that they could teach most college professors and campus elitists about the way the world works.

And while we are on the topic of education, why doesn't the senator and his comrades in Congress improve the GI Bill so all of today's military members - reserves and guard included - can achieve the educational aspirations that the senator so highly values? The senator's false and outrageous attack was over-the-top and he should apologize now.
UPDATE IV: More irony pointed out by an emailer. Kerry says:
I’m sick and tired of these despicable Republican attacks that always seem to come from those who never can be found to serve in war, but love to attack those who did.
The first to denounce him (an obviously "despicable Republican attack") was John McCain (who just as obviously "never ... serve[d] in war").

UPDATE V:
Taylor Marsh claims this is what Kerry planned to say:
"I can't overstress the importance of a great education. Do you know where you end up if you don't study, if you aren't smart, if you're intellectually lazy? You end up getting us stuck in a war in Iraq." - Senator John Kerry
Now supposedly that make all the difference. Supposedly that means that he's talking about the guy who did better than Kerry did at Yale and everyone should know that. Yeah ... I'm buyin'.
 
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Previous Comments to this Post 

Comments
He was before being stuck in Iraq before he was against it.
 
Written By: Billy Hollis
URL: http://
Whoops, make that:

"He was for being stuck in Iraq before he was against it."
 
Written By: Billy Hollis
URL: http://
Isn’t Kerry talking about Bush and the Bush administration rather than the military?

The problem with his observation as I see it is that IIRC Bush’s class ranking at Yale was better than Kerry’s, Bush has an MBA from Harvard (Kerry’s law degree is from a less than top-flight school), etc. While I think that ideology is one of the reasons we’re having the problems in Iraq we’re manifestly having, thinking that it’s stupidity is, well, stupid.
 
Written By: Dave Schuler
URL: http://www.theglitteringeye.com
Isn’t Kerry talking about Bush and the Bush administration rather than the military?
How would talking to a college student body have him comparing them to the "Bush administration?" Seems much more likely he’s talking about their peers.
 
Written By: McQ
URL: http://www.qando.net/blog
Isn’t Kerry talking about Bush and the Bush administration rather than the military
So he’s telling these kids that if you’re stupid you become president and if you’re smart you become an undistinguished senator who will die as a footnote?

 
Written By: shark
URL: http://
So he’s telling these kids that if you’re stupid you become president and if you’re smart you become an undistinguished senator who will die as a footnote?
Maybe he misspoke and meant to say "Vietnam" instead of "Iraq."
 
Written By: McQ
URL: http://www.qando.net/blog
Seems much more likely he’s talking about their peers.
I too think he is an idiot, but I think it more likely he was having a cheap shot at the president and others in the administration rather than a pop at the military.
 
Written By: Kav
URL: http://livingrealworld.blogspot.com
I too think he is an idiot, but I think it more likely he was having a cheap shot at the president and others in the administration rather than a pop at the military.
Again, given the setting, it would be a rather oblique shot. Given who he was speaking too (college students in California), I’m still not convinced. He may end up claiming that (it would certainly be more politically acceptable than a shot at the military), but it would be rather unconvincing to me. I’d have to admit, however, it would give him what most politicians crave when they do the foreskin foxtrot - plausible deniability.

He’ll tell us it was just too nuanced for us to grasp.
 
Written By: McQ
URL: http://www.qando.net/blog
Saying this statement was in reference to the Bush administration, is stretching to the point of absurdity.
 
Written By: Fyro
URL: http://
It was a silly thing to say.

The point is valid, study hard and you will be rewarded, don’t and you won’t.

But you know...
"Rarely is the question asked: Is our children learning?"—Florence, S.C., Jan. 11, 2000
 
Written By: CaptinSarcastic
URL: http://
Captain, the problem with his statement wasn’t the point you explained.

The problem with his statement is that he equates military service with failure, stupidity and ignorance.
 
Written By: Fyro
URL: http://
The point is valid, study hard and you will be rewarded, don’t and you won’t.
And had he stopped there, he’d have been fine.

But he didn’t, did he?
 
Written By: McQ
URL: http://www.qando.net/blog
I too think he is an idiot, but I think it more likely he was having a cheap shot at the president and others in the administration rather than a pop at the military
1) It’s a pretty low-rent attack, the whole "Bush is stupid" thing, isn’t it? It’s a real petty attack, especially from a senator.

2) Didn’t Bush get better grades than Kerry in college lol

At the end of the day, whenever they meet face to face, Kerry doesn’t call him stupid. He calls him Mr. President. That’s gotta rankle...
 
Written By: shark
URL: http://
The problem with his statement is that he equates military service with failure, stupidity and ignorance.
Right. It was an idiotic thing to say, not a silly thing, and it demonstrates his absolute unfitness to serve as Commander in Chief.

Thank you, Ohio.
 
Written By: Pablo
URL: http://
There is something else very wrong with his statement that has not been said.

The military of today is a very hightech place. They do not even want the old style "guts and guns" type of person.You need alot of brains also. Todays soldiers are the brightest soldiers ever, they are not dumb brutes.
 
Written By: SkyWatch
URL: http://
My son graduated from college with honors and joined the Army. Since OCS was not available until the next year, he went in as an enlisted man. He is to be deployed to Iraq in December. I would stake my life on the belief that if he is slightly wounded 3 times he will not request a return to the US and leave his buddies on the front line. My son is more of an honorable man than Mr. Kerrey was and will ever be.
 
Written By: amr
URL: http://
Right. It was an idiotic thing to say, not a silly thing, and it demonstrates his absolute unfitness to serve as Commander in Chief.
C’mon now, if saying idiotic things occasionally determined unfitness to serve, GWB wouldn’t be fit to serve as dogcatcher.

So I’ll cede it was an idiotic thing to say.

Cap
 
Written By: CaptinSarcastic
URL: http://
The irony of Kerry calling anyone a "stuffed shirt" is overwhelming...
 
Written By: shark
URL: http://
"If anyone thinks a veteran would criticize the more than 140,000 heroes serving in Iraq and not the president who got us stuck there, they’re crazy.
Why not? He was sure happy enough to criticize them when they were serving in Vietnam...
 
Written By: shark
URL: http://
"Rarely is the question asked: Is our children learning?"—Florence, S.C., Jan. 11, 2000
Wrong quote. The statement goes (if you bothered to listen to it rather than cut and paste) "Rarely is the question asked: Is {pause for correction} Are children learning?"

But, your strawman looked nice while it was in flames.
"The point is valid, study hard and you will be rewarded, don’t and you won’t."
No, the point isn’t valid. He didn’t say "study hard and good things will come to you", he said if you don’t study, you’ll end up a soldier.

I’m a former soldier, and I’ll put my IQ up against yours any day. I don’t write applications that interact with over one hundred terabytes of data (100,000,000,000,000 for the visually oriented) because I didn’t study hard. Nor did the Marines let me work on F/A-18, UH-1N, and AH-1W aviation systems because I was the best they could find out of a bunch of drooling retards.

Kerry lost, and for good reason.
 
Written By: Robb Allen
URL: http://blog.robballen.com
Bush invaded Iraq with no real plan for the post-invasion occupation.

Is Bush stupid? Res Ipsa Loquitur.
 
Written By: mkultra
URL: http://
"If anyone thinks a veteran would criticize the more than 140,000 heroes serving in Iraq and not the president who got us stuck there, they’re crazy.
War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.

Just make sh*t up if you get caught red handed. That is the elitist thing to do; should we expect anything else from the Tomato-in-Chief ?
 
Written By: Jimmy the Dhimmi
URL: http://moorejack.ytmnd.com/
No one said he didn’t criticize the president along with the 140,000 troops he insulted. Notice how he’s trying to worm his way out of this one while avoiding an outright lie.
 
Written By: Jimmy the Dhimmi
URL: http://moorejack.ytmnd.com/
Is Bush stupid? Res Ipsa Loquitur.
As Hitchens said, "That’s the joke stupid people laugh at."

Here’s your sign...
 
Written By: Pablo
URL: http://
Well as someone who spent 20+ years in the army and hold a BS in computer science, two AAs, and am currently working on my masters and CCNA certification, I have say I guess that not only am I too stupid and lazy but also am too crazy to understand the fine nuances of Senator Kerry’s statements.

It is so blazingly obvious to me now that Senator Kerry has explained what he said in itty bitty words that even one as lowly, ignorant, shiftless, and mentally deranged as I can understand.
 
Written By: retired military
URL: http://
So Bush is stupid but Sen. footnote can’t even rag on him without mangling it? Or he got caught and this is his crude attempt to worm out.

Who’s stupid again?

All Kerry was missing was the ghengis kahn reference

Afterall, he’s busted on the troops before.
 
Written By: shark
URL: http://
"If anyone thinks a veteran would criticize the more than 140,000 heroes serving in Iraq and not the president who got us stuck there, they’re crazy"

Of course criticizing non-heroes serving in VietNam is entirely different.

"I’m sick and tired of these despicable Republican attacks that always seem to come from those who never can be found to serve in war, but love to attack those who did."

How about those Republican attacks from those who spent considerably more time in a war zone than he did?

 
Written By: timactual
URL: http://
I love this...Kerry’s coverup, er rebuttal shows just how bitter and angry Senator footnote really is over being denied the presidency. Angry at the swiftboaters upon who’s backs he climbed to power over, and most of all bitter and angry at George W. Bush.

Remember Johnnycakes, when you see him, you call him Mr. President. He’ll call you anything he damn well pleases, if he deigns to acknowledge you at all.

I take pleasure in his suffering.

 
Written By: shark
URL: http://
I take pleasure in his suffering.
Heh ... honestly, I can’t say it bothers me in the least.
 
Written By: McQ
URL: http://www.qando.net/blog
So Kerry opts for the version which claims he was talking about Bush.
I didn’t read him as even doing that much. His entire reply is just a four paragraph long non sequitor. (see "How dare you question my patriotism!!?!" for more examples)
 
Written By: ChrisB
URL: http://
have given us a Katrina foreign policy that has betrayed our ideals
What does that even mean? Is it me, or is Democratic rhetoric starting to sound like Tourette’s?

"have given us a —Katrina!— foreign policy..."
 
Written By: OrneryWP
URL: http://
No, the point isn’t valid. He didn’t say "study hard and good things will come to you", he said if you don’t study, you’ll end up a soldier.
Assuming you can’t read minds, and the English language is not perfect, and people’s use of it is especially flawed, we have to rely on what people say they meant as to opposed to what others say was meant when a person makes a comment.

Kerry says that he meant that if you don’t study and work hard, you will make horrible mistakes and do things as foolish as getting your nation mired in Iraq.

Who are you to say that he meant something else?
I’m a former soldier, and I’ll put my IQ up against yours any day. I don’t write applications that interact with over one hundred terabytes of data (100,000,000,000,000 for the visually oriented) because I didn’t study hard. Nor did the Marines let me work on F/A-18, UH-1N, and AH-1W aviation systems because I was the best they could find out of a bunch of drooling retards.
Great response to an assertion Kerry says he didn’t make.

As to IQ’s, when mine was tested in school, it came up as 150. I think this is relatively meaningless, I don’t consider myself to be smarter than many people who would test at lower IQ’s and I know some folks with ridiculously high IQ’s that in some ways seem to more like savants than genuises. By the way, I design and sell data and IP MPLS networks for multi-national corporations, this and EQ/IQ thing, people skills and technical skills. Okay genius?

If you don’t like Kerry, continue to not like him.

If you want to believe you know what he meant better than he does, knock yourself out.

But if you want to do that AND call yourself some kind of brilliant intellect, you may want to adjust one of the two.

How about this as something you might correct your assertion to read, "I’m not the sharpest tool in the shed, but when I hear something, it means what I say it means, not what the person who said says it means."


Cap
 
Written By: CaptinSarcastic
URL: http://
Wrong quote. The statement goes (if you bothered to listen to it rather than cut and paste) "Rarely is the question asked: Is {pause for correction} Are children learning?"
I stand corrected.

I don’t have the bandwidth to listen to every stupid thing Bush is reported to have said.

Would you argue that George Bush makes fewer idiotic linguistic faux paus than John Kerry?

I didn’t think so

Cap

 
Written By: CaptinSarcastic
URL: http://
Kerry says that he meant that if you don’t study and work hard, you will make horrible mistakes and do things as foolish as getting your nation mired in Iraq.

Leaving aside that it is obvious this isn’t what Kerry intended to communicate (note the use of the pronoun "you" in his statement to students), and accepting that we buy this bullsh*t excuse...

Either way, Kerry made a mistake and insulted the troops in Iraq. If he were sincere and honestly misspoke, what an odd way to react to criticism of his statement — with anger and indignation at people noticing his error.
 
Written By: Fyro
URL: http://
[You students] know, education, if [You students] make the most of it, if [You students] study hard and [You students] do your homework, and [You students] make an effort to be smart, uh, [You students], [You students] can do well. If [You students] don’t, [You students will lead people to] get stuck in Iraq.

If you don’t study and you’re stupid and don’t value education, you might become the President of the United States and make mistakes.

That makes so much more sense logically. Yes! I’m convinced. Kerry was talking about the President leading us into Iraq.

/rolls eyes.
 
Written By: Fyro
URL: http://
Cap said

"But if you want to do that AND call yourself some kind of brilliant intellect, you may want to adjust one of the two."

After ragging on about how the english language isnt perfect and we cant possibly be sure of what Kerry meant.

Of course he neglected to mention that he was doing the same thing that he accuses others of and then wants to berate them for doing it. Hypocracy thy name is democrat.


 
Written By: retired military
URL: http://
Kerry says that he meant that if you don’t study and work hard, you will make horrible mistakes and do things as foolish as getting your nation mired in Iraq.

Who are you to say that he meant something else
I dunno....who are all the people on the left (you included I’m pretty sure even though you’ll deny it) who do the same thing to Bush when he makes a verbal gaffe?

 
Written By: shark
URL: http://
That makes so much more sense logically. Yes! I’m convinced. Kerry was talking about the President leading us into Iraq.
Parse your brains out, this is a political fight, the goal is for one side to convince the other side that Kerry meant the thing that it is advantageous for them politically. What Kerry actually meant is almost irrelevant at this point, other than the fact that anyone without a dog in this race is going to accept his explanation of what he said, and for those that already despise him, it doesn’t matter what he meant, their opinion won’t change.

Your sense of logic doesn’t include a consideration of whether it makes sense for a politician to say that stupid people become soldiers?

Cap

 
Written By: CaptinSarcastic
URL: http://
"Kerry says that he meant that if you don’t study and work hard, you will make horrible mistakes and do things as foolish as getting your nation mired in Iraq."

If that is what he meant, why didn’t he say it? One would think that a well educated, experienced attorney and politician, either of which requires good verbal skills, could say what he means. Unless he is incompetenmt. This seems to be a recurring pattern with him. Of course a smart guy like you knows which of his comments expresses what he really means to say. Mind reading, perhaps?
 
Written By: timactual
URL: http://
I gotta say- the whole idea of a dem- any dem- daring to act like they’re a friend of the military makes my skin crawl. It’s highly offensive to see them using the military in their campaigns, in their speeches etc etc. Even the Dem veterans they have have jumped the shark. I don’t care where or when he served, someone like Murtha has no business daring to act like they support the troops, ever. Not anymore.

This is the "baby killer" party. This is the party that venerated the Clintons, one was partying in Russia during the draft, the other one said she "loathed" the military. They ran for Pres. a soldier who slandered his comrades, their senate caucus includes a windbag who compared them to Nazis and Pol Pot, and a drunken murderer who compared them to Saddam’s reign.

They tried to dismember the military with the "peace dividend" crap, and even now are staunch opponents of many new weapons development projects such as anti-missle systems and more effective bunker-piercing projectiles.

It’s frankly obsecne for the Dems to run like they care about the troops in any fashion.
 
Written By: shark
URL: http://
I don’t have the bandwidth to listen to every stupid thing Bush is reported to have said.
But you certainly have the bandwidth to misrepresent it.
 
Written By: McQ
URL: http://www.qando.net/blog
What Kerry actually meant is almost irrelevant at this point,
Another classic opt put. Just walk away...
 
Written By: meagain
URL: http://
I dunno....who are all the people on the left (you included I’m pretty sure even though you’ll deny it) who do the same thing to Bush when he makes a verbal gaffe?
Huh?

We (on the left) usually unearth what Bush means, but we laugh at what he actually says.

When Bush says things like,
"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." —Washington, D.C., Aug. 5, 2004
We don’t come out and say, "See, he is thinking up ways to harm our country!"... at least not without a serious helping of sarcasm. We may find it ironic that Bush accidentally said what believe is true, but not because he let the truth slip out, rather because he mangled the sentences.

This one was a bit disconcerting...
"See, in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda." —Greece, N.Y., May 24, 2005 (Listen to audio)
We (on the left) have been very concerned that this administration has been practicing propoganda techniques to a level never seen before, and the use of the word propaganda spooks the hell out of us.

But in general, we just laugh at the gaffes and don’t try to assign hidden meaning, or more specifically, meaning that he did not intend.

We don’t really think Bush wants to make the pie higher.

We don’t really think he wants to make it easier for us to put food on our families.

We don’t really think he believes that OB-GYNs practice their love with women all across this country.

We cringe that Bush can’t communicate more effectively, but we don’t act as if his cracked utterances mean something other than we he said he meant.

Cap
 
Written By: CaptinSarcastic
URL: http://
And there is no reason, Bob, that young American soldiers need to be going into the homes of Iraqis in the dead of night, terrorizing kids and children, you know, women, breaking sort of the customs of the—of—the historical customs, religious customs.
Another troop bashing moment compliments of that wonderful defender and lover of our troops, John "Ghengis Khan" Kerry!
 
Written By: shark
URL: http://
But you certainly have the bandwidth to misrepresent it.
Nope, this doesn’t fly, I did not misrepresent it at all, I posted the text of what he said. Robb Allen was kind enough to put it in context and clarify the textual perception that he was making a usage error when he simply made and corrected a different usage error.

And I acknowledged it.

It’s not like we have to look hard for linguistic errors from this guy, and this was an error, just not the error it appeared to be in text.

You want to beat this horse into hamburger?

Cap
 
Written By: CaptinSarcastic
URL: http://
“You know, education, if you make the most of it, if you study hard and you do your homework, and you make an effort to be smart, uh, you, you can do well. If you don’t, you get stuck in Iraq.”
The last sentence should’ve ended "like our president." If Kerry were smarter, he should’ve realized his error- his statement was made in such a manner that could be (and clearly has been) misinterpreted as attacking people other than the president. He should’ve apologized and clarified his statements and said "I meant to say "stuck in iraq like the president is".

 
Written By: h0mi
URL: http://
America is fighting against Gulf Sunni funded insurgents and Iranian funded militia. America is making plans to withdraw, potentially ceding the field to these enemy combatants. The American military could well have been the smartest and most educated force going into Iraq, but if they come out losing then they will be losers.
 
Written By: unaha-closp
URL: http://warisforwinning.blogspot.com/
Parse your brains out, this is a political fight, the goal is for one side to convince the other side that Kerry meant the thing that it is advantageous for them politically.
And other than proving the late contender for the Presidency is a high falutin brahmin moron, what political advantage do the Republicans gain?

Some bill Kerry is sponsoring will fail? (John doesn’t even vote on a lot of these, much less sponsor them...)
Unless you know for a fact that Ghengis Johnny is going to commit to an effort to become President in ’08, which is doomed since Hillary and Barak are getting the nomination anyway.

Yeah, I think our brahmin bozo meant Bush and staff. But I can easily see how it could be read the other way.
 
Written By: looker
URL: http://
This is the party that venerated the Clintons, one was partying in Russia during the draft, the other one said she "loathed" the military.
I thought this was the same one... not sure what Hillary did.
 
Written By: h0mi
URL: http://
Kerry was supposed to say, "I can’t overstress the importance of a great education. Do you know where you end up if you don’t study, if you aren’t smart, if you’re intellectually lazy? You end up getting us stuck in a war in Iraq."

It was a botched joke, but hey, try and parse it into something that will prevent him from running for President... I’ll be fine with that. If he runs, he could get the nomination, and I don’t want to hear John O’Neill’s ever again. (I debated him on a radio show in ’04 and wiped the floor with him - IMHO)

You think it might save a few seats next Tuesday if you can convince people that a botched joke was an attack on soldiers, go for it. Just know that’s what you’re doing and sign the "ends justifies the means" affidavit on the table.

Cap
 
Written By: CaptinSarcastic
URL: http://
Clinton never said he "loathed" the military, go read the Holmes letter.
And that is where I am now, writing to you because you have been good to me and have a right to know what I think and feel. I am writing too in the hope that my telling this one story will help you to understand more clearly how so many fine people have come to find themselves still loving their country but loathing the military, to which you and other good men have devoted years, lifetimes, of the best service you could give. To many of us, it is no longer clear what is service and what is disservice, or if it is clear, the conclusion is likely to be illegal.



But yes, Clinton schemed around the draft with the best of them... you can’t say dodged, because that’s a crime, unless you mean it in the non-criminal sense, then he dodged the hell out of the draft.



Cap
 
Written By: CaptinSarcastic
URL: http://
You think it might save a few seats next Tuesday if you can convince people that a botched joke was an attack on soldiers, go for it
From a scary angle, I hope that is not the case.
Heh, maybe it’s proof these people shouldn’t be voting, if because of Kerry’s comment they carry that down to vote for a Republican representative in a state that is not Massachusetts.
I have to say, that’s pretty damn sad to think if that’s where this gets taken.

I think that’s gilding the lilly though. The only person that’s going to come out of this looking stupid is Kerry, the more he mouths off about it and doesn’t let it die, the worse for him nationally. He’s quite safe with the voters at home.
If he won’t let it go, they won’t have a reason to stop talking about it. It only has as much mileage is he gives it.
 
Written By: looker
URL: http://
Clinton never said he "loathed" the military,
It is pretty clear that there was general "loathing" of the military within the Clinton Administration leading up to the "Blackhawk Down" incident.
 
Written By: Don
URL: http://
Cap

Clinton also said that oral sex wasnt sex and split the hairs on the definition of the word IS.

Clinton’s actions more than proved his disdain for the military.

Kerry’s words show his meaning more than anything else. He isnt nearly as smooth as Clinton was. That is why he is called Senator instead of Mr President.

Dont go away mad. Just go away.

 
Written By: retired military
URL: http://
Clinton never said he "loathed" the military, go read the Holmes letter.

And that is where I am now, writing to you because you have been good to me and have a right to know what I think and feel. I am writing too in the hope that my telling this one story will help you to understand more clearly how so many fine people have come to find themselves still loving their country but loathing the military, to which you and other good men have devoted years, lifetimes, of the best service you could give. To many of us, it is no longer clear what is service and what is disservice, or if it is clear, the conclusion is likely to be illegal.
 
Written By: h0mi
URL: http://
So, it appears that wingers actually do care about the troops. At least it appears that way.

Great. Welcome aboard. Now, having said that, when are they going to do something to really help the troops. Take, for example, the following:
Maliki Orders Lifting of Checkpoints Around Sadr City
U.S. Disbands Military Blockade After Prime Minister’s Announcement

By John Ward Anderson, Ellen Knickmeyer and William Branigin
Washington Post Foreign Service
Tuesday, October 31, 2006; 1:32 PM


BAGHDAD, Oct. 31 — U.S. forces ended a five-day-old military blockade of Baghdad’s impoverished Sadr City section Tuesday, meeting a deadline set by Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki amid tensions between U.S. and Iraqi officials and pressure from the anti-American cleric whose militia controls the sprawling Shiite slum.

Maliki ordered that the security cordon be lifted hours after cleric Moqtada al-Sadr called for a civil disobedience campaign in Sadr City to protest the blockade, which the U.S. military launched Wednesday in an effort to find an abducted U.S. soldier and capture a purported Iraqi death squad leader.
So Maliki orders the US to essentially end its efforts to find an abducted US soldier and the Bush administration ... does exactly what he says.

WTF? Who is in charge there? And since when does some Iraqi thug get to tell us we can’t look for one of our own in the manner we see fit?

Hey wingnuts, now that you have shown you care about the troops, do something to actually help the troops. Call the White House and tell it that until they start ignoring Maliki, you aren’t going to the polls next Tuesday.


 
Written By: mkultra
URL: http://
Nope, this doesn’t fly, I did not misrepresent it at all, I posted the text of what he said. Robb Allen was kind enough to put it in context and clarify the textual perception that he was making a usage error when he simply made and corrected a different usage error.
Riiight. And quoting it as you did without that context isn’t a mischaracterization at all, is it?

Heh ... keep telling yourself that Cap. You might believe it.
 
Written By: McQ
URL: http://www.qando.net/blog
If Kerry were smarter ...
Key point, homi.
 
Written By: McQ
URL: http://www.qando.net/blog
Does anybody have the full text of the remarks? In isolation, the quote sounds like he’s mocking the troops. For that, obviously, he should apologize and retract the statement. But Chris Matthews, who apparently read the entire text, said that in context of the overall speech, it’s quite obvious he was referring to Bush, not the troops. So, McQ, the context is not that he was speaking to a bunch of college students, but that he may have said other things before that that may have led up to the comment, and made it more apparent he was speaking about Bush.

The real question, then, is if his comments were taken out of context, he needs to either explain better what the context was i.e. how the big quote logically follows earlier remarks mocking Bush. Or, he should say, "I made a joke about the President and it came out wrong. It sounded like I was insulting the troops and I have no intention of doing that. I apologize for conveying that impression to the troops."

But Kerry decided that after what SBVT did to him in 2004, he was not going to let the accusation fester in the news cycle. Of course, this time the situation is different. Kerry became irrelevant to the Democratic Party on November 3, 2004. He should have stayed irrelevant and not given the flailing GOP an excuse to raise up the rancor of 2004. Let the GOP stumble, moribund, into the elections next week. Don’t distract from the news cycle that kills Bush every night. Politically, he should have just apologized and moved on. The rat-bastards like Limbaugh would keep bringing it up, but the rest of the pundtry and political class would have forgotten. Now it’s going to conjure up all the old emotions. Even though I wish he fought back against the right wingers in 2004, I don’t think he should be acting this way now. Let it slide, apologize, and move on.
 
Written By: Elrod
URL: http://
I am willing to assume that Kerry blew the line. But it is clear as a goat’s butt that he blew it in such a way that its plain meaning could be construed as an insult to the troops.

His going on the attack in his written and oral statement was bad politics and bad form.

Cap:

Even someone as smart as you cannot make chicken salad out of chicken sh**, although you made a valiant attempt.

Why use your talent for such a fool’s errand and waste it on a ninny like Bigbadjohn.

Don’t sell your self short.

 
Written By: vnjagvet
URL: http://www.yargb.blogspot.com
So, McQ, the context is not that he was speaking to a bunch of college students, but that he may have said other things before that that may have led up to the comment, and made it more apparent he was speaking about Bush.
Show me Elrod. And the context is he was talking to a bunch of college students at a rally at Pasadena City College. Unless you can think of another reason to hold a rally at such a place.

I mean Phil Angelides knew who he was talking too:
"There are a lot of people counting on us: the millions of kids coming after you," he told the crowd, adding that government must do more than "just lavish more on those who have the most."
And Kerry was talking about education, to those being educated at education institution. Yet he wasn’t talking to college students?

Heh ...

The Pasadena Star-News paraphrased his remark thusly:
Kerry then told the students that if they were able to navigate the education system, they could get comfortable jobs—"If you don’t, you get stuck in Iraq," he said to a mixture of laughter and gasps.
So again, who was he talking too? And about what?

Seems someone who was there, given this particular quote, disagrees completely with you and Kerry.
 
Written By: McQ
URL: http://www.qando.net/blog
Elrod:

Seems to me if the context established or clarified the meaning, the remarks would be published by now by his staff, or a friendly blogger. Have you seen it anywhere? No.

That’s the evidence to date. Draw your own conclusions.
 
Written By: vnjagvet
URL: http://www.yargb.blogspot.com
See a tongue-in-cheek posting that employs the same GOP tactic used in relation to Senator Kerry to creatively interpret remarks made by the President in the most unfavorable manner...here:

www.thoughttheater.com
 
Written By: Daniel DiRito
URL: http://www.thoughttheater.com
I think Cap Sarcastic was onto something though when he said it didn’t matter what Kerry said.

And it doesn’t. Just the fact that this is happening, drawing the conversation away from whatever the MSM can gin up against the GOP, putting the Dems on the (appearance of) defense, moving the Iraq discussion from what’s wrong to who supports the troops- this is all a good thing for the GOP. So Rove thanks Sen. Footnote for a backfiring Oct. suprise.

On a purely snark level, if you believe his lie....I mean cover story...I mean excuse, if Kerry is so f*cking smart, why couldn’t he bust on Bush coherently? Maybe lurch needs to be careful who he makes fun of in that case. Maybe he can stick to an easy target like Brittney Spears
 
Written By: Shark
URL: http://
McQ,
I’m basing it on Matthews’ comments and on the "corrected" remarks later. I have no idea what he really meant to say. Nor do I know what he said before that. If there’s a YouTube of the quote at hand, surely there’s a YouTube of the whole speech. But him speaking to a bunch of college students is irrelevant. He could have meant, if you screw up you’ll end up as President getting us into Iraq. It’s part of a long line of critique against Bush - perhaps unfair - that Bush is a pampered idiot (I know about the grades at Yale). He was juxtaposing "comfortable jobs" with being George W. Bush. Sounds bizarre, but it actually gels with much of Kerry’s criticism of Bush.

I agree, however, that he should have said that his remarks at the very least sounded like he was accusing the troops of being stupid. And for that he should have apologized right away. But unless you believe a priori that John Kerry hates the US military, you won’t automatically believe that his comments were just a bad joke gone wrong and not an actual statement of derision against the military.
 
Written By: Elrod
URL: http://
So again, who was he talking too? And about what?

Seems someone who was there, given this particular quote, disagrees completely with you and Kerry.
He was talking about Bush getting stuck in Iraq. The article doesn’t say otherwise oe else you would have provided a quote. It certainly doesn’t say, as you imply, that he was talking about the average soldier.
"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Aug. 5, 2004
Again, why is it that an unthoughtful remark gets the right so fired up, but a criminally mismanaged war, the direct result of which is the death of thousands of American troops, doesn’t? Seriously. Does anyone have an answer?
 
Written By: mkultra
URL: http://
Did you hear about the Democrats who went into the bar?

They don’t support the troops.


Damn, I botched that joke :(
 
Written By: Fyro
URL: http://
MK:

You and Kerry need to follow the first rule of holes.

There are some battles worth fighting. This is not one of them.

 
Written By: vnjagvet
URL: http://www.yargb.blogspot.com
He was talking about Bush getting stuck in Iraq.
No he wasn’t. See, easy isn’t it ... make it up as I go.

That’s his claim now. But that is certainly not what he said.
 
Written By: McQ
URL: http://www.qando.net/blog
I’m basing it on Matthews’ comments and on the "corrected" remarks later.
I’m basing it on what he said. And to whom he said it.

We have absolutely no idea if the "corrected remarks" are a product of after-gaffe spin or the truth. Given Kerry’s previous propensity to invent and fabricate things, I’m inclined not to give him the benefit of the doubt.
 
Written By: McQ
URL: http://www.qando.net/blog
You and Kerry need to follow the first rule of holes.

There are some battles worth fighting. This is not one of them.
So what’s your point? Kerry wasn’t intending to bash Bush? Go ahead and make that case, Clarence Darrow. As for me, I’ll stick with Occam’s Razor.
I’m basing it on what he said. And to whom he said it.
He said don’t be dumb, or you will get stuck in Iraq. And he said it at a rally for a Demoratic candidate for governor in a Blue State.

Hmmmmm. To whom could he have been referring?

And your conclusion is ... certainly not Bush?

Man, you are getting desperate. Those Pelosi nightmares must be keeping you up all night.
 
Written By: mkultra
URL: http://
He said don’t be dumb, or you will get stuck in Iraq.
No, he didn’t dumbass. He said make the most of your education and study hard or you’ll get stuck in Iraq.
To whom could he have been referring?
Duh!
 
Written By: McQ
URL: http://www.qando.net/blog
Fair enough, McQ. I suppose we’ll find out more about the rest of the speech in the next day or so. I’m sure there’s a YouTube of the whole speech out there so we can fit it in better context. You and I have different impressions of Kerry before this controversy, so that may explain your willingness to believe he meant what he said (in the quoted piece) and my belief that he meant something else. Fine.

For that matter, I think vnjagvet said it best. Whatever Kerry actually meant, he shouldn’t have picked a fight over this. The Swamp blog at the Chicago Tribune made a good point. Kerry is fighting the last war. He believes, perhaps rightly, that had he refuted the SBVT claims immediately, he would have won out. So he takes that lesson and applies it here. Surely the liberal blogosphere feels that way. Read Oliver Willis for an example. He’s thrilled that Kerry is finally "fighting back." But is "fighting back" really the right strategy here? It’s not like a shadowy 527 is drudging up some odd charge from 30 years before. It’s an actual quote that, at best, he botched. One doesn’t have to be "crazy" to think his remarks were intended toward the troops. I disagree with McQ on this point, but I think he makes a strong case nonetheless and I may yet be convinced of it. Surely neither McQ nor many other objective viewers are "crazy" to think that Kerry was deriding the troops. So, Kerry really screwed this up.

Now, what will this mean for the overall campaign? One take, on the GOP side mostly, is that by thrusting Kerry and his idiocy into the picture at this point, the GOP base will be riled up to vote. I’m not sold on that theory because a) Kerry has been an irrelevant Democrat since November 3, 2004 and has nothing to do with this election. He’s said outrageous things before (about Haditha) and it didn’t alter the overall picture. Kerry is Kerry and people already know about him. b) The larger issue of the trouble in Iraq isn’t changed by this at all. c) Few Americans outside hardcore GOP partisans believe that all or most Democrats disparage the military the way Kerry supposedly does. I just don’t see this transferring to other Democrats. And forcing other Democrats to comment on this is a bit silly. Kerry himself has already denied claiming that the troops were uneducated.

That said, an alternative view pushed by Adam Nagourney in the NY Times today, is that Bush is actually taking a big risk by attacking Kerry, and thereby reminding voters of the Iraq war as GOP candidates try to shift the subject away from the war. This has been going on for awhile now. Bush talks about Iraq in a press conference, GOP operatives wince. But I don’t think that’s really true either. This was about Kerry’s remarks ostesibly about the troops, not Iraq itself. It made sense for Bush to criticize Kerry, even if the remarks were just a botched joke.

My view is that, in the end, this is just a momentary distraction from the campaign and will disappear in a day or two. It will run the news cycle and be replaced by something else. In fact, it will probably be replaced by the more important story in Sadr City where we gave in to Maliki’s demands that we not blockade the neighborhood and search for our missing soldier. If Kerry were on the ballot, he’d get pummeled for this. But he’s not. For the immediate term, it will make some Democrats nervous and Republicans excited. But unless somebody comes out and says, "Yeah, the troops really are idiots," I think it’s going away.
 
Written By: Elrod
URL: http://
Elrod:

If the news is correct that Kerry has cancelled his appearances for tomorrow, does that modify your assessment?

I suspect that his gaffe, together with his "statement" this afternoon has provided some clips for campaign ads which will be aired in key districts throughout the next week to raise the specter of Democratic control in the House and Senate.

Check the distancing by savvy Dem. candidates and their managers over the next several days.

In any event, practically speaking, we may well be witnessing the end of the Senator’s presidential hopes.
 
Written By: vnjagvet
URL: http://www.yargb.blogspot.com
He said don’t be dumb, or you will get stuck in Iraq.
No, he didn’t dumbass. He said make the most of your education and study hard or you’ll get stuck in Iraq.
Dumbass?

So not making the most of your education and not studying hard is not being dumb?

Whatever you say.

Did Bush make the most of his education in invading in Iraq? Did he do his homework on Iraq? I guess your answer is yes. Well, that makes two of you.

What’s weird is the obsession with Kerry in the first place. If Democracts couldn’t let go of the 2000 election, for some reason wingers can’t let go of the 2004 version. And Bush actually won the latter election.

It’s just weird.
 
Written By: mkultra
URL: http://
"you can’t say dodged, because that’s a crime"

I can say it. He received two notices and didn’t report. That is a crime. Just because he avoided an indictment doesn’t mean he didn’t do it. There is a reason he is called "Slick Willie".



" that had he refuted the SBVT claims immediately..."

Refute; "To prove wrong by argument or evidence"
Kind of hard to prove eye witness testimony by so many reputable people wrong, isn’t it? I am no attorney, but I don’t think he had much of a case.
 
Written By: timactual
URL: http://
I’m just sad that there’s one less person running for the Dem ticket in ’08.

What’s that you say? They’re knee-jerk defending his comments? Changing the subject? Rushing to say, "Report what he meant to say"? They still don’t consider him an idiot and a liability?
Well, all right then! Only 737 days left!
-=-=-=-=-=-
Look for pictures of certain Democrat Congressmen and Senators standing next to John Kerry to suddenly surface in the next couple hours/days. Oh, I know, you die-hard Democrats insist that this is all making much ado about nothing... but he’s an albatross, an embarrassment.
 
Written By: OrneryWP
URL: http://
What’s weird is the obsession with Kerry in the first place. If Democracts couldn’t let go of the 2000 election, for some reason wingers can’t let go of the 2004 version.
Hah. Yeah, Kerry was just walking along the street, minding his own business when those crazy OBSESSED Rethuglicans came out of nowhere and forced him to make an extremely stupid comment in public, in front of thousands of people JUST so they’d have an excuse to talk about him again.

I’ll say this for you, mk, you never fail to disappoint.
 
Written By: jinnmabe
URL: http://
vnjagvet,
Where have you heard that he’s cancelled appearances tomorrow? Frankly, I hope he has. As a Democrat, I don’t want him anywhere near the rest of the campaign. Most Democrats can repudiate his comments and that’ll be the end of it - whatever he meant to say.

Video of him side-by-side with candidates won’t matter much because he’s not the President. It’s like demonizing Pelosi. Nobody outside the hard-core partisans cares about Pelosi. And the hard-core partisans are voting anyway. The reason Democrats show various GOP politicians alongside Bush is because these politicians supported Bush’s policies and ideas. And the Democrats are nationalizing the election around Bush. If the Democrat in question supported Kerry’s comments then the side-by-side ad would resonate. If Clair McCaskill said tomorrow that she thinks our troops are uneducated fools, then it would be appropriate to put her face-to-face with Kerry and show Kerry’s quote. If Kerry supported her and she didn’t believe the troops are uneducated fools, all she has to do is say, "I repudiate Kerry’s remarks." Hell, that’s what the GOP is actually asking them to do.

Republicans have tried to scare the electorate about a Democratic majority this whole cycle, and it hasn’t worked. Why? The news cycle keeps reinforcing what’s wrong with the Bush Administration, and the Republican Congress’ refusal to affect it. Read Dale Franks’ perceptive entry above and tell me that you come away from it thinking positively about Iraq. The Republicans deserve to lose, and washed up John Kerry won’t change that calculus.
 
Written By: Elrod
URL: http://
we have to rely on what people say they meant as to opposed to what others say was meant when a person makes a comment.
Or we could just listen to what they say in order to determine what they say.
"You know, education, if you make the most of it, if you study hard and you do your homework, and you make an effort to be smart, uh, you, you can do well. If you don’t, you get stuck in Iraq."
Kerry’s statement speaks for itself. Before the phrase "you get stuck in Iraq" he said "you" or "your" nine times in his remarks to the audience at Pasadena City College. George Bush wasn’t there. The pronoun "you" referred to the audience. Bush isn’t in Iraq, the American military is. Kerry exhibited contempt for the military when he told his lies to Congress thirty years ago and these remarks are consistent with that contempt.

Captain Sarcastic says:
As to IQ’s, when mine was tested in school, it came up as 150.

What happened? Have you suffered a head injury? I’ve been reading this blog for several years and you are the first person who has ever felt the need to state his IQ. I guarantee that there are at least 10 regular commenters on this blog with an IQ above 150 and more conservative politics than you (and that isn’t a coincidence). Captain Sarcastic, you are as big an idiot as John Kerry is.
 
Written By: Anonymous
URL: http://www.qando.net
Hah. Yeah, Kerry was just walking along the street, minding his own business when those crazy OBSESSED Rethuglicans came out of nowhere and forced him to make an extremely stupid comment in public, in front of thousands of people JUST so they’d have an excuse to talk about him again.
If you have read this blog as long as I have, you would understand my point. You obviously have not.

Don’t believe me? Run a search of this site on the subject. Watching McQ obsess about Kerry is like watching a divorced ex-wife stalk the new girlfriend. Irrational, but understandable.
 
Written By: mkultra
URL: http://
The word "you" can refer to a generalized figure. We use the word "you" that way all the time. The reason I think he’s talking about Bush is that he preceded this comment with a bunch of one-liners about Bush. People in the audience assumed he was talking about Bush too. If you’re predisposed to believe Kerry hates the military then of course you’re going to read into this comment that he really meant the troops are idiots. But if you don’t believe that, then you have to look at the context. And other than that he was speaking to college students, I think he was just reeling off a bunch of jokes about how Bush is poorly educated and poorly informed choices, including Iraq. I wish somebody had a transcript of the entire speech.
 
Written By: Elrod
URL: http://
If you’re predisposed to believe Kerry hates the military then of course you’re going to read into this comment that he really meant the troops are idiots.
We aren’t "reading" anything into his comments, you are. We are dealing with what he actually said and you are pretending that he meant something other than what he said. Kerry’s contempt for the military is entirely separate and distinct from anyone else’s predispositions. His Genghis Khan testimony based on the lies of the "Winter Soldiers", his meeting with the North Vietnamese in Paris while soldiers were still fighting and dying and his no vote on the supplemental funding for the troops in 2004 (because he was losing primaries to Howard Dean) all evidence his contempt. Don’t try to lay this off on anyone else but Lurch himself. His actions over the course of thirty years corroborate the literal and actual meaning of his statement. They directly contradict the inference that his defenders want to draw.

He is an idiot and this is a Kinsley gaffe if there ever was one.
 
Written By: Anonymous
URL: http://www.qando.net
I’ve been reading this blog for several years and you are the first person who has ever felt the need to state his IQ.
Have you ever read a post responding to this challenge?
I’m a former soldier, and I’ll put my IQ up against yours any day.
Captain Sarcastic, you are as big an idiot as John Kerry is.
That’s clever

Like I said in my previous post, I don’t think IQ tests mean much, I suck at higher math, for example, and I do not believe I am smarter than anyone because of an ancient IQ test.

I do however believe that I am smarter than most people who’s rhetorical weapon of choice is a common insult.

Maybe if you said something like this...
I cannot believe how incredibly stupid you are. I mean rock-hard stupid. Dehydrated-rock-hard stupid. Stupid so stupid that it goes way beyond the stupid we know into a whole different dimension of stupid. You are
trans-stupid stupid. Meta-stupid. Stupid collapsed on itself so far that
even the neutrons have collapsed. Stupid gotten so dense that no intellect
can escape. Singularity stupid. Blazing hot mid-day sun on the warm side
of Mercury stupid. You emit more stupid in one second than our entire
galaxy emits in a year. Quasar stupid.
...I could at least respect you in the morning.

Cap
 
Written By: Captin Sarcastic
URL: http://
His actions over the course of thirty years corroborate the literal and actual meaning of his statement. They directly contradict the inference that his defenders want to draw.
So you are able to read John Kerry’s mind?

You must be able to read his mind since you are able to claim without equivocation that he meant what you say he meant rather than what John Kerry himself says he meant.

Congratulations Claire!

Hey, can you tell what I’m thinking right now?

Cap


 
Written By: Captin Sarcastic
URL: http://
So you are able to read John Kerry’s mind?
Jesus H C***** you are dense. No I can’t read his mind. That is why I said to stick to what he actually said. You and his other defenders are the ones who think you can read his mind and are arguing that he meant something other than what he actually said.

And don’t refer to his after the fact, lame attempt to cover up his gaffe by telling us he meant something else. That is what’s called a "self serving statement" and it means precisely nothing. What do you expect the idiot to say? Have you ever heard the saying that "there are no guilty men in prison"? That refers to the fact that inmates have a tendency to profess their innocence to anyone who will listen. That doesn’t mean they are actually innocent. Lurch is telling us, after the statement was deservedly criticised (as opposed to correcting his statement contemporaneously), that he meant something other than what he actually said. Do you get it? I don’t think my four year old niece would need it spelled out any more clearly than you apparently do.

I can’t read his mind and neither can you. However, I can hear what he said. I have seen the video and heard his "joke" on the radio at least ten times today. I live in LA and heard the audio on KFI-640 when it was first broadcast on the John Ziegler show. Kerry didn’t say anything about Bush in the remark in question. He is a liar and an idiot. He screwed up and he’s trying to weasel out of it.

Your sarcasm about reading minds is laughable after Democrats were able to discern that George Allen intended a racist connotation when he used an alleged North African slur at a rally in far Western Virginia against someone to whom the slur didn’t even apply (i.e. Indian descent). Liberals are also actively reading Republican’s minds regarding the ad running in Tennessee with the Blonde bimbo. Even though that part of the ad ran specifically in response to Ford’s church commercial, liberals apparently can read minds and know that it is really an appeal to racists who oppose miscegenation. Your IQ doesn’t seem to help you think logically. I bet it’s closer to 15 than 150.
 
Written By: Anonymous
URL: http://www.qando.net
No I can’t read his mind. That is why I said to stick to what he actually said.
Okay Kreskin, no one EVER makes an error in speaking, so what comes out of their mouths is ALWAYS exactly what they meant, even if they say it isn’t, and even if what did come out of their mouth was something that would be totally counterproductive to that person’s purpose, namely getting people to vote their way.

Yeah, I’m the idiot.

So when Kerry says great things about the military, he is telling the truth right, because it came out of his mouth, right?

Yeah, I’m dense.

You know that when one thing comes out of John Kerry’s mouth, it represents how he REALLY feels, but when he something else comes out of his mouth, for example, when he says that he intended to say "You end up getting us stuck in a war in Iraq" , you KNOW he is lying.

I must just be too dumb to figure out how you can KNOW what John Kerry is THINKING and KNOW he means what he says even when HE says says that he does not mean what you say he means.

See, I can see the Macaca thing, I didn’t jump on the bandwagon, and I thik it was unfair to start with, but I understood it. He used a word that is an epithet which means monkey that is used by French Tunisians in Africa. The likelihood that he could have just invented a word on the spot (that was his claim) to describe a dark skinned person and that word just happened to be an epithet in the place his mother was raised and few other places is miniscule. If he had said the he heard it when he was a kid and didnt think it meant anything bad, he could have skated, but just happened to make up a word that is used where my mother lived by people of my mother’s ethnicity? C’mon.

If John Kerry called the troops "courges" and said that he made up the word, we’d call him a big fat liar, because we know he speaks french and this is a french word.

Anyway, have fun with this, I cannot compete with your superior intellect and mind reading skills. I am going to put on a tinfoil hat and think about Hillary CLinton’s ankles.

Cap (Sarcastic)
 
Written By: Captin Sarcastic
URL: http://
Cap, Mk, keep up the good fight.
This is a hill worth dying on.
(sorry, I really meant hole worth dying in, did the mind readers get that?).

Cap, you were doin okay way back at the top you conceded it was just a stupid thing to say. Holes’ just getting deeper now.
MK - well, you’re doing as well as ever.

Even though it’s clear Kerry’s own instinct for when to fight, and when to drop it is totally awful (and hitting McCain...too rich).

Keep on keepin on guys, the sh*t smells stronger the more you stir it.


 
Written By: looker
URL: http://
So what’s your point? Kerry wasn’t intending to bash Bush? Go ahead and make that case, Clarence Darrow. As for me, I’ll stick with Occam’s Razor
Um.....if you’re sticking with Occam’s Razor then the easiest, simplest explaination is to take what he said at face value as a shot at the troops.

Maybe you’re sticking with Pelosi’s Razor?
 
Written By: shark
URL: http://
..hmm.

While,

#1) John Kerry is a political doofus,

#2) I doubt he thinks all his ex-military friends are idiots. Nevertheless,

#3) This sort of statement will probably piss off some military people, with some justification (as much as any other interest group having a loud reaction to a dumb comment) On the other hand,

#4) I wonder would a military recruiter would say on this subject if you got him drunk. John Kerry’s obnoxious comment was built on some observations made about how our military is disproportionately drawn from certain identifiable sectors of society, made by men both smarter and more sincere than himself.

#5) So there’s an elephant in the room here. But Kerry is not the guy to go after it, that’s for sure.

#6) It really don’t mean a hill of beans one way or another.
 
Written By: glasnost
URL: http://
PS- You can really tell by the way the moonbats come out to defend and flak for their guy that they’re kinda scared Sen. footnote may have rallied the GOP base just enough to squeak by.

MK, Cap.....you losers are scared sh*tless LMFAO
 
Written By: shark
URL: http://
"Republicans have tried to scare the electorate about a Democratic majority this whole cycle,"

And vice versa. Each party appeals to a different set of fears. So what’s new?

"The news cycle keeps reinforcing what’s wrong with the Bush Administration, and the Republican Congress’ refusal to affect it."

Yeah, read "Republican" for Bush and that’s been pretty constant over most of my lifetime.

******************

"Or we could just listen to what they say in order to determine what they say."

Nah, too simple. And we peasants can’t really understand all that high-falutin’ talk anyway. We NEED it explained and interpreted to us.


" Okay Kreskin, no one EVER makes an error in speaking, so what comes out of their mouths is ALWAYS exactly what they meant,..."

If they repeatedly express the same thoughts and ideas, the likelihood(?) that they mean what they say increases. Being counterproductive could be seen as commitment to principle, even at some personal cost(isn’t that also one of his themes?). Unintentionally counterproductive statements are not that uncommon.

"...and think about Hillary CLinton’s ankles."

Eeuw. That hurts the back of my eyes. Thanks a lot.

*********************

After actually hearing and listening to the tidbit in question, I have come to the conclusion that Kerry may have actually meant to insult Bush, rather than US troops. It wouldn’t be the first time someone has blown a rather convoluted joke; I’ve done it a few times myself. I will add that I can also see why some people reacted as they did. We have examples, as some here have quoted, of Kerry insulting US troops, so it would not have been out of character. Some other people, in my opinion, have acted in a partisan manner, intentionallly seizing on the interpretation most advantageous to them.

In conclusion, I would say to Kerry that if he wishes to discuss these smears on his distinguished military record with a Republican or conservative who HAS worn his country’s uniform in war, I stand ready to serve once again. Any time. Any place. Any rules. I may have to stand in line though.
 
Written By: timactual
URL: http://
This campaign season is sickening.

Lost in this whole screaming show are the actual solciers. They are not a monolithic group, for heaven’s sake.

There is the fact that standards have been lowered in order to maintain recruitment levels.

There is the fact that recruitment is heavier among minorityy/poorer populations than in ivy-league colldeges.

There are those many soldiers who enlist only because their earnings’ expectations outside of the military are grim.

Nobody knows what was in Krrry’s mind when he spoke except Kerry.
It seems to me quite plausible that he was pointing out the economic factor in troop constituencies. What percentage of the military are wealthy? Or put another way, what percentage of those who have studied hard and succeeded in making good money elsewhere find themselves in Iraq?



 
Written By: Laime
URL: http://
Watching McQ obsess about Kerry ...
LOL!

Watching you talking about anyone obsessing is flat hilarious.
 
Written By: McQ
URL: http://www.qando.net/blog
This whole thing is part of what has overtaken American political discourse — the gotcha game. Someone makes a gaffe, and the other side tries to milk it for all its worth, putting aside real issues. I discuss my view of this with more depth on my blog today (http://faculty.umf.maine.edu/~erb/blog.htm). Those who attack Kerry over this are the real a******s.
 
Written By: Scott Erb
URL: http://faculty.umf.maine.edu/~erb/blog.htm
"There is the fact that recruitment is heavier among minorityy/poorer populations than in ivy-league colldeges."

Even if true, so what? It’s a VOLUNTEER military.

"There are those many soldiers who enlist only because their earnings’ expectations outside of the military"

If you are 18, no experience, training or education, that is true. Again, so what? See above.

" Nobody knows what was in Krrry’s mind when he spoke except Kerry."

And as he has proven time and again, even he doesn’t know.

**************************

" Those who attack Kerry over this are the real a******s."

Some are, some aren’t. It depends on the motivation, much like those who attack those who attack Kerry.
 
Written By: timactual
URL: http://
This whole thing is part of what has overtaken American political discourse — the gotcha game. Someone makes a gaffe, and the other side tries to milk it for all its worth, putting aside real issues. I discuss my view of this with more depth on my blog today (http://faculty.umf.maine.edu/~erb/blog.htm). Those who attack Kerry over this are the real a******s
You’re an a*****e for attacking those who are attacking Kerry! You yourself are now contributing to the gotcha game that you so decry.

Hypocrite. Go write a blogpost excoriating yourself now.
 
Written By: shark
URL: http://
shark -
Maybe you’re sticking with Pelosi’s Razor?
I was just eating, dude. Come on.
 
Written By: OrneryWP
URL: http://
Laime -
"There is the fact that recruitment is heavier among minorityy/poorer populations than in ivy-league colldeges."

Come now. Yes, recruiting is heavier among those groups than among ivy-league students, but that should be obvious. The military doesn’t have as much to offer ivy-league students, and ivy league students are those who have already chosen to pursue other opportunities in their lives; of course not too many are going to say, "I’ve changed my mind. I don’t like Harvard. I want to go into the USMC instead." Ivy league students self-selected for a more academic, comfortable life.

But this plays off the perception that minorities are overrepresented in the military. That’s almost 100% a mix of myth and outdated data. The military is currently quite representative of the US if you go along "racial" lines. Blacks are equitably represented in the overall military and only barely overrepresented in the active-duty military (blacks make up 15% of the active-duty military, compared to 14% of the civilian population of age 18-24), and Hispanics are noticeably underrepresented. American Indians and Alaskan natives are slightly overrepresented, while Asians are also noticeably underrepresented (1% of military versus 4% of civilians). Do the math and tell me where that leaves whites.

It’s certainly true that cultural factors encourage different groups to join the military, and not just socioeconomic factors—the South is famous for its military tradition going back forever. It’s true that a quarter of the military claims residence in Florida or Texas (some for tax reasons), and that as a rule Southerners are far more likely to join the military. I’ll gladly admit that a good number of people join the military to escape trouble at home, and others genuinely do sign up primarily for the material/educational benefits (won’t find too much of that at all in the Marine Corps, though, I’d bet, and considering how much combat they see compared to other services, that weakens the common argument considerably).

But yes, it’s true that those who join the military come from families that, on average, are below the US average income. Consider what they have to offer, GI Bill and all, particularly on the Army commercials that promised job-applicable training and money for college. Of course they’re going to attract people who are looking for a leg up. And there’s nothing wrong with that: they’re not poaching poor kids off the street; they’re offering risks and rewards that the poor are free to turn down if they’ve got better opportunities elsewhere. What’s wrong with providing the best of many alternatives to the poor, an opportunity to do well?

Keep in mind that blacks who have been in the military tend to have higher-than-average earnings—higher than the total US average, mind you, not just higher than average black earnings. So something’s working out for them—either the ones who join the military are some of the brighter individuals in the black community (in which case they’re definitely not being poached by zealous recruiters) or their opportunities in life are improved by military service (in which case it’s an effective anti-poverty program, instilling good values and teaching good skills to its recruits).
 
Written By: OrneryWP
URL: http://
There is the fact that recruitment is heavier among minorityy/poorer populations than in ivy-league colldeges
Maybe part of it has to do with the outright hostility military recruiters are shown by Ivy League Universities?

Yet more proof that Ivy Leaguers don’t love their country much at all
 
Written By: shark
URL: http://
But yes, it’s true that those who join the military come from families that, on average, are below the US average income. Consider what they have to offer, GI Bill and all, particularly on the Army commercials that promised job-applicable training and money for college. Of course they’re going to attract people who are looking for a leg up. And there’s nothing wrong with that: they’re not poaching poor kids off the street; they’re offering risks and rewards that the poor are free to turn down if they’ve got better opportunities elsewhere. What’s wrong with providing the best of many alternatives to the poor, an opportunity to do well?

Well, while I could think of some conceptual arguments that something is wrong, on the whole I wouldn’t personally get behind what I could think up. There’s probably a better case that it is an admirable thing that disadvantaged people have a way up in our society - whatever that way up may be, military included. Other possible ways up are quite possibly rather less honorable.

But this again raises the question - so what was so fundamentally outrageous about what Kerry said? As potshots at the military go, it was pretty mild. No one asked how many grunts can screw in a lightbulb. Was it such an explosion because it touched a subconsicious nerve about military demographics and the unpopularity of going to war right now?

I think that was really what did him in - he made going to Iraq look unglamorous.
 
Written By: glasnost
URL: http://
Well, while I could think of some conceptual arguments that something is wrong, on the whole I wouldn’t personally get behind what I could think up. There’s probably a better case that it is an admirable thing that disadvantaged people have a way up in our society - whatever that way up may be, military included. Other possible ways up are quite possibly rather less honorable.
I don’t know if you understood what I was saying. The military, simply put, can be the best of several alternatives facing certain poor individuals (not all).

I’ve known a number of people who left troubled families or poor conditions to join the military, and ended up much better off than their friends they left behind. The girl who lived next door to me decided her lifestyle wasn’t going to work forever, joined the Marines, and last I checked is doing quite well... while her old friend stayed in civilian life and checked in and out of rehab. They’ve been known to straighten out undisciplined people, people whose values are not those that will lead to success, who are looking for a way to change their lot.

Again, some people have a lot to gain from doing something with purpose and high expectations of self-discipline, a place that will challenge them and keep them away from things like criminal gangs. In their cases, the military may very well be the best of all alternatives, and there’s nothing wrong with that.

Other poor people may have different paths to good values, self-discipline and success. I’m certainly not counting that out. I mean, if you had taken the sentence before the one you bolded into full account, I’d think I was making my point clearly.
I think that was really what did him in - he made going to Iraq look unglamorous.
Is that sarcasm? Tell me that’s sarcasm.
 
Written By: OrneryWP
URL: http://
Is this dead yet?

Do we all know what happened, the prepared joke, the botched punch line, or are there still folks who want to entertain me by suggesting that he meant this as an insult to people who wear the uniform?

C’mon, make me laugh.

Cap
 
Written By: Captin Sarcastic
URL: http://
Is this dead yet?
This thread is dead, yes. But Kerry’ll bleed for another couple days in other blog posts. The consensus that’s forming is that no matter what he meant originally, Kerry’s an idiot.
 
Written By: OrneryWP
URL: http://

C’mon, make me laugh.
Read this op-ed posted on Kerry’s website, Cap. You’ll roar!
Republicans evidenced their election desperation by braying about an offhand comment that Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass., made at a California college rally.

"Education" Kerry said "— if you make the most of it and you study hard and you do your homework, and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don’t, you get stuck in Iraq."

Was Kerry making fun of the president, or warning students against the pitfalls awaiting the undereducated in general?

It doesn’t matter. Kerry was right either way.

Kerry wasn’t saying — regardless of the Republican spin — that our troops are stupid.

Kerry’s intended point was obvious. President Bush didn’t do his homework before he ordered the invasion. He didn’t study the intricacies of Mideast religion, culture, politics and tribalism. He wasn’t smart about it and we are stuck in Iraq.

Although there are plenty of well-educated people in our armed forces — Kerry was one of them — military service has long been an opportunity employer for those with less education and fewer skills than they need to work in the private sector. Indeed, the military sells itself as a place to garner skills and to help pay for higher education.

And wars, including this one, are often fought by those less privileged — albeit no less smart — than the sons and daughters of those who lead us into them.

Apologies? Sure, from the cut-and-run Democratic candidates who’ve cancelled appearances with Kerry.
So, if you don’t go to school and do well, you’ll get stuck in Iraq. Hilarious, ain’t it?
 
Written By: Pablo
URL: http://

 
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