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From the Al Qaeda Playbook
Posted by: McQ on Wednesday, November 01, 2006

A little indicator of what opening the US court system to foreign terror suspects and unlawful enemy combatants would promise:
Lawyers for alleged al Qaeda operative Jose Padilla have asked a Florida judge to dismiss the terrorism case against him, saying he was tortured and force-fed psychedelic drugs while held at a U.S. military brig for more than 3-1/2 years.

"The torture took myriad forms, each designed to cause pain, anguish, depression and ultimately, the loss of will to live," Padilla's attorney's said in the motion for dismissal filed in Miami federal court earlier this month.

"Often he had to endure multiple interrogators who would scream, shake and otherwise assault Mr. Padilla," his lawyers said. "Additionally, Mr. Padilla was given drugs against his will, believed to be some form of lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD) or phencyclidine (PCP), to act as a sort of truth serum during his interrogations."

[...]

The forms of torture included isolation, prolonged sleep deprivation, exposure to extremely cold temperatures and shackling in "stress positions" for hours at a time, they said.
Now as we all know, and agree, Padilla is a special case. US citizen arrested in the US. That means he is entitled to all of the rights that brings. So this isn't about Padilla specifically. Nor is it about torture. Our position on that issue is well known.

It's about the tactics used by Padilla in court. This allegation of torture is straight out of the al Qaeda training manual, specifically:
1. At the beginning of the trial, once more the brothers must insist on proving torture was inflicted on them by State Security [investigators] before the judge.

2. Complain [to the court] of mistreatment while in prison.
Etc. It's called "gaming the system". And it is one of many reasons why individuals who are not US citizens but foreign terrorists or unlawful enemy combatants should be handled outside of this system through military tribunals.
 
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The interesting corollary to this is how our vulnerability to these charges has been enhanced by our actions.

The first really bad move was to not react meaningfully to the Abu Graib scandal. Passing it off as just a case of a few bad apples fooled no one and delayed a serious reassessment of detainee treatment.

The ’torture’ stigma is going to haunt us for a long time to come. There have been reports of foreign governments citing the US as an example of why they should not be expected to adhere to human rights issues.

The Al-Qaeda playbook has been given every chance for the appearance of credibility.
 
Written By: Laime
URL: http://
Credible foreign governments? You know, foreign governments that actually have a decent record themselves?
No? Ah, that would be because credible foreign governments aren’t looking for excuses to torture, whereas I’ll bet in every case of a government citing the US as a reason not to adhere to human rights issues they were already NOT adhereing to human rights issues in the first place.
 
Written By: looker
URL: http://
Is there a difference between your paragraph and this paraphrase?

This allegation of police brutality is straight out of the Criminal training manual, specifically:
1. At the beginning of the trial, once more the defendant must insist on proving mistreatment was inflicted on them by the police before the judge.

2. Complain [to the court] of mistreatment while in prison.

Etc. It’s called "gaming the system". And it is one of many reasons why dirty criminals should not have more rights than the poor victims of their crimes.
 
Written By: Retief
URL: http://
"Credible foreign governments?"
——
’Credible’ has nothing to do with it. I am saying that our actions have given ammunition for talking points of the non-credible. Now, third parties have to wonder who is right. It would be helpful if these third parties were prone to see us as above reproach.
 
Written By: Laime
URL: http://
I’m a bit confused. Are you claiming "enhanced interrogation techniques" weren’t used against Padilla? Or that it’s ok to use these techniques because of some lines in a purported terrorist training manual?
 
Written By: Davebo
URL: http://
The ’torture’ stigma is going to haunt us for a long time to come.
Well, Newsweek’s Isikoff misquoted the Gonzales memo, and the left ran with that as hard and as fast as it could. Creating stigma about American use of ’torture’.

If Abu Graib casues problems for America, don’t Isikoff’s lies cause greater problems? Why is the American left so quick to hold up lies that hurt us?
 
Written By: Don
URL: http://
There have been reports of foreign governments citing the US as an example of why they should not be expected to adhere to human rights issues.
Now, third parties have to wonder who is right. It would be helpful if these third parties were prone to see us as above reproach.
I thought the problem was that places like, say, Libya - a credible protector of human rights, of course, was able to point at us and claim we had abused prisoners. Then that somehow permitted THEM to do so to. And that places like Sweden would nod and go - ah! Of course, forge on with the abuse.

No - my point was that only countries that had planned to abuse rights all along would use that as a defense. Countries like, (at random) Sweden aren’t going to claim we provide them with an excuse to abuse their prisoners via our behavior.

Now if you only want to talk about us being above reproach that’s different. If you’re trying to say that Libya might mistreat our prisoners because of our actions, I’m telling you they’d have done it anyway.


 
Written By: looker
URL: http://
looker,

Back during Vietnam, Sweden had "issues" with us for using that nasty 5.56 mm ball (M193) fired by our M16s. At the time it was thought that hydrostatic shock due to high velocity caused exteme wounds.

We now know that the 5.56 mm M193 ball achieves effective wounding via bullet fragmentation. As it turns out, the Swedish 7.62 NATO ball also had similar bullet fragmentation, except using a bigger bullet (US 7.62 NATO ball doesn’t tend to fragment). For more, refer to the research of Dr. Martin Fackler.

Bottom line: Swedish ammo was worse than US ammo, at a time they were ragging on us about our inhumane ammo.

 
Written By: Don
URL: http://
The first really bad move was to not react meaningfully to the Abu Graib scandal. Passing it off as just a case of a few bad apples fooled no one and delayed a serious reassessment of detainee treatment.
Bullsh*t. By the time Abu Ghraib became celebrated, the military had already performed the reassessment and disciplinary actions against perpetrators had been underway for half a year.
Passing it off as just a case of a few bad apples fooled no one

Oooh, nice weasel-words. Abu Ghraib, probably one of the most investigated events in US military history, has been determined to be an incidental failure of military discipline regardless of your aspersions. Sorry.

yours/
peter.
 
Written By: Peter Jackson
URL: http://www.liberalcapitalist.com
Abu Ghraib, probably one of the most investigated events in US military history, has been determined to be an incidental failure of military discipline regardless of your aspersions.
Given the juvenile and sexual aspects of Abu Ghraib, particularly of the lead character (an obvious bully) and his sex-toy girl friend, you really wonder how any serious CIA/intel types would get involved. Using people who are making porn and domination videos is rather, uh, unprofessional.
 
Written By: Don
URL: http://
Don,

I always wondered why the government didn’t release ALL of the photos, you know, including the idiots having sex with each other on film.

The defense lawyers leaked the photos in an attempt to pressure the administration - that’s how the media got ahold of them - along with the "we wuz followin’ orders" argument.

 
Written By: Harun
URL: http://
Harun,

Likewise, why didn’t the Administration release the full Gonzales memo in the face of Isikoff’s lies?

You are correct that a full release of the videos would put things into perspective to everyone, even those not paying much attention. On the other hand, however, is the contingent of moonbats who are paying attention, yet they can still say things like:
Passing it off as just a case of a few bad apples fooled no one and delayed a serious reassessment of detainee treatment.
Indeed, it is clear that what was involved was likely nothing more than a few bad apples. But that doesn’t feed into the "frog march fantasy", does it?
 
Written By: Don
URL: http://

 
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