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Voter Fraud in Kansas City
Posted by: mcq on Thursday, November 02, 2006

For the "no photo ID to vote" crowd:
Federal indictments allege the four turned in false voter registration applications. Prosecutors said the indictments are part of a national investigation.

ACORN and Project Vote recruit and assign workers to low-income and minority neighborhoods to register people to vote.

The Kansas City Election Board told KMBC they found suspicious forms, such as seven applications from one person and an application for a dead man.

"There is some motive behind it — this is not accidental," said Ray James with the Kansas City Election Board.

Election officials said some of the application cards had false addresses, signatures and phone numbers.

ACORN officials in Kansas City said they turned in the four people who were indicted.
In question? 35,000 registrations processed by ACORN.

And this, apparently, is just the tip of the iceberg:
Federal indictments allege the four turned in false voter registration applications. Prosecutors said the indictments are part of a national investigation.
So save the 'there's no real indication of fraud' argument for someone else. This indicates a concerted effort which is enabled by not requiring anyone to prove they are the person registered. And that subverts the integrity of the voting system whether you like to admit it or not.
 
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Previous Comments to this Post 

Comments
vote early, vote often.

 
Written By: capt joe
URL: http://
I wonder what party they were going to be voting for.

HMMMMMMMMMMMMM.....
 
Written By: shark
URL: http://
Here’s the part I find funny. The left keeps screaming about fixed elections at every opportunity, with the unstated assumption that it’s the only way their opponents could win. Yet, all the elections for which we have significant evidence of fraud implicate Democrats.

Example include the article cited, the investigation and prosecution in East St. Louis, the last governor’s election in Washington state, and the fishy Indian reservation mess in South Dakota four years ago.

Now, some resident leftist is likely to pop up here shouting "Florida! Ohio!". Which shows just out of touch they are. Remember that even the NYT said Bush won Florida, from recounts conducted after the fact, and allegations of false voters were not a major part of that controversy. And anyone who seriously thinks fraud affected the outcome in Ohio needs to get off the hallucinogens.
 
Written By: Billy Hollis
URL: http://
Comon man...Diebold computers come pre-hacked to ensure the GOP wins. Everyone knows that.
 
Written By: shark
URL: http://
Another overreaction by you Rethuglicans. It is quite possible that someone could accidentally register 7 times. What do you expect when you refuse to pay to educate people and keep them constantly worrying about being sent to Iraq.
 
Written By: timactual
URL: http://
Remember that even the NYT said Bush won Florida, from recounts conducted after the fact, and allegations of false voters were not a major part of that controversy.
Uhh, I think it was that if the recounts counted all the ballots (undervotes and overvotes), Gore would have won. However, neither Bush no Gore were asking for the overvotes to be counted and, had the recount ordered by the Florida been allowed to continue, Bush would have prevailed.
 
Written By: Ugh
URL: http://
It’s looking like a pattern from the Dem’s now.

First, in 2000, sure that a little monkey business could flip the votes their way, Al Gore’s glossy Chicago attorneys descended on West Palm Beach with reams of pre-printed affidavits. Their strategy: get elderly registered Democrats to accept the notion that they were "confused" by the party-approved butterfly ballot.

Then, after the count didn’t go Gore’s way, the party’s current tantrum began, and a spate of petty vandalism followed. Here’re just a few from memory: the "W" keys went missing off of the White House keyboards, Daschle’s Senate obstructed Bush’s judicial nominees and stalled implementation of the recommendations from Bush’s energy task-force, the Dem’s contrived the Wilson-Plame, "Bush Lied," "16-words" fake-u-drama, and a Democratic staffer leaked the NIE to the NYT.

I’m sure I’m missing a couple of pranks. But, to top off the list, now we’ve got an honest-to-goodness voter fraud case naming defendants from a Democrat-party front group.

I’m afraid things won’t be getting any better soon. As long as the Democrat party is relying on its teenage-pranksters for its legislative and electoral strategies, America will have to suffer a lot more of this hooliganism in the decades to come.
-Steve
 
Written By: Steve
URL: http://
In New Mexico:
The Republicans also said the integrity of the election could be called into question by 201,713 voter identification cards that GOP officials said were returned to the Secretary of State’s Office as undeliverable.
GOP officials asked Secretary of State Rebecca Vigil-Giron to require that voters whose cards were deemed undeliverable must present a state-issued photo identification before being allowed to vote.
Vigil-Giron has said that about 1.1 million voter ID cards were sent to registered New Mexico voters.
Lets see... 1,100,000 voter ID cards sent, 201,713 returned as undeliverable. 18%? That’s nearly one out of every five!
 
Written By: bains
URL: http://
Uhh, I think it was that if the recounts counted all the ballots (undervotes and overvotes), Gore would have won. However, neither Bush no Gore were asking for the overvotes to be counted and, had the recount ordered by the Florida been allowed to continue, Bush would have prevailed.
While no one asked for over votes to be counted (thinking that overvotes were not an option), the judge assigned to the final statewide recount indicated that if the clear intent of the voter could be ascertained from an overvote, he would have them counted as well. He DID have overvotes segregated for review. A significant number of overvotes were ballots where the voter punched for a candidate and wrote their name in as well.

Had undervotes and overvotes been counted statewide, Gore would have won.

In other words, if every vote in Florida where the clear intent of the voter had been counted, statewide, Gore is President.

Cap

 
Written By: CaptinSarcastic
URL: http://
In other words, if every vote in Florida where the clear intent of the voter had been counted, statewide, Gore is President.
What about all those military ballots that Gore’s lawyers blocked from being counted? Were you willing to count those? And if we’re gonna go the fairy tail route, let us consider how many potential voters in the panhandle (heavy republican area) were lost when the networks started calling FL for Gore.

Back to the point at hand though... just in this one thread we have many, many instances of voter fraud. You were all about not disenfranchising voters when we went over this a few days ago... how do you address the specific items here?
 
Written By: meagain
URL: http://
Billy~

In last year’s WA governor’s race, the only actual dead voters were Republicans. The guys just knew their dead wives would have wanted good ol’ Dino to win.
 
Written By: Steven Donegal
URL: http://
Uhh, I think it was that if the recounts counted all the ballots (undervotes and overvotes), Gore would have won.
There was indeed such a scenario, but it wasn’t clear that Gore would have won. It all depends on some judgemental factors on what was a "legal vote", and so the conclusion there is not definitive. The NYT said: "The findings indicate that Mr. Gore might have eked out a victory if he had pursued in court a course like the one he publicly advocated when he called on the state to "count all the votes."" (emphasis mine)

However, the NYT admitted that under any scenario that respected election rules in place at the time, Bush won.

And that gets us back to the basic issue at hand. Elections must have rules, else they become free-for-alls, and everyone begins to doubt their legitimacy. This is toxic to civil society.

The Democrats, from their vigorous attacks on voter ID laws, seem to fine with free-for-alls. They don’t seem to care what kind of fraud is possible. Back up the bus, unload the bums, and give them $5 each to claim they’re somebody on the rolls? Hey, have at it.
 
Written By: Billy Hollis
URL: http://
Uhh, I think it was that if the recounts counted all the ballots (undervotes and overvotes), Gore would have won. However, neither Bush no Gore were asking for the overvotes to be counted and, had the recount ordered by the Florida been allowed to continue, Bush would have prevailed.
Yeah, but they would have had to have been counteted in a manner that Gore’s team wanted. I.e., a total recount done a certain way would have given Gore a win. Every other method results in a Bush win.

I guess that the Dem idea is keep counting till their guy wins, and when he wins that’s the count that counts.
 
Written By: Don
URL: http://
Meagin:
What about all those military ballots that Gore’s lawyers blocked from being counted? Were you willing to count those?
From the NYTimes article linked to above:
Another complicating factor in the effort to untangle the result is the overseas absentee ballots that arrived after Election Day. A New York Times investigation earlier this year showed that 680 of the late- arriving ballots did not meet Florida’s standards yet were still counted. The vast majority of those flawed ballots were accepted in counties that favored Mr. Bush, after an aggressive effort by Bush strategists to pressure officials to accept them.

A statistical analysis conducted for The Times determined that if all counties had followed state law in reviewing the absentee ballots, Mr. Gore would have picked up as many as 290 additional votes, enough to tip the election in Mr. Gore’s favor in some of the situations studied in the statewide ballot review.

But Mr. Gore chose not to challenge these ballots because many were from members of the military overseas, and Mr. Gore did not want to be accused of seeking to invalidate votes of men and women in uniform.
Billy Hollis:
However, the NYT admitted that under any scenario that respected election rules in place at the time, Bush won.
Don:
Yeah, but they would have had to have been counteted in a manner that Gore’s team wanted. I.e., a total recount done a certain way would have given Gore a win. Every other method results in a Bush win.
From the NYtimes article Billy links to:
An approach Mr. Gore and his lawyers rejected as impractical — a statewide recount — could have produced enough votes to tilt the election his way, no matter what standard was chosen to judge voter intent.
 
Written By: Ugh
URL: http://
ACORN is also part of the "FairImmigrationReformMovement" with other groups. One of those other groups has conducted voter registration drives of (supposedly) eligible former immigrant voters. In June, they attended a meeting of the WeAreAmericaAlliance, which planned to conduct voter registration drives over the summer.

Since I continue to be banned here, try this: tinyurl.com/y7on9g
 
Written By: Still can’t comment here
URL: http://
What about all those military ballots that Gore’s lawyers blocked from being counted? Were you willing to count those?
They WERE ALL counted. These absentee ballots were not among the over votes or under votes, they were counted in the original count and original recount.
And if we’re gonna go the fairy tail route, let us consider how many potential voters in the panhandle (heavy republican area) were lost when the networks started calling FL for Gore.
We can’t do magic, we can only count votes, issues like the Panhandle where there 8 minutes left to vote when they started calling the state and the Butterfly ballots in Palm Beach may not have been fair, but there was no recourse for either of these.
Yeah, but they would have had to have been counteted in a manner that Gore’s team wanted. I.e., a total recount done a certain way would have given Gore a win. Every other method results in a Bush win.
No, in the most inclusive count, that included every possible vote where the intent of the voter could be ascertained, Gore would have won. The judge assigned to the recount indicated in a memo that this was the most likely manner of the recount.

It’s irrelevant now, ancient history, but I’m right.
You were all about not disenfranchising voters when we went over this a few days ago... how do you address the specific items here?
I am all about reconsidering now. I will accept ID requirements if it is part of a comprehensive vote fraud prevention measure that would include absentee ballot fraud prevention and electronic voting hacker protection.

Fair enough? (as if we were the deciders, LOL)

Cap
 
Written By: CaptinSarcastic
URL: http://
So these guys allegedy turn in false applications and we therefore need voter ID?

Pray tell, McQ - how does the one stop the other?
 
Written By: mkultra
URL: http://
mk, even you can’t be this obtuse, can you?!?

If we KNOW that groups are submitting illegal applications, how do we know we got them all? How do we know some of the false ones didn’t sneak through? If we had a voter id, then Dick Tracy and Michael Jordan might get caught before they cast an illegal vote.

And as we know, you’re all about the integrity of the vote. Right?!?
 
Written By: SaveFarris
URL: http://
So these guys allegedy turn in false applications and we therefore need voter ID?
There are two reasons for false applications to be sent in...

1. The ACORN workers were not doing their job but wanted to get paid anyway, so they just filled in names. This would be fraud against both ACORN and the Election District.

2. The ACORN workers wanted names on the voter rolls that could be used to vote falsely in the election.

I would bet money that the first is the primary driver for these false applications, but I also acknowlege that without some safeguards, there is little to prevent the second scenario from taking place.

That said, I would support voter ID laws, but ONLY if it is a comprehensive fraud prevention campaign that addressed electronic voting fraud potentialiaties as well as absentee ballot fraud potentialities.

Cap

 
Written By: CaptinSarcastic
URL: http://
And then there’s this:

 
Written By: Steven Donegal
URL: http://
An approach Mr. Gore and his lawyers rejected as impractical — a statewide recount — could have produced enough votes to tilt the election his way, no matter what standard was chosen to judge voter intent.
Details provided on the following page:
If all the ballots had been reviewed under any of seven single standards, and combined with the results of an examination of overvotes, Mr. Gore would have won, by a very narrow margin. For example, using the most permissive "dimpled chad" standard, nearly 25,000 additional votes would have been reaped, yielding 644 net new votes for Mr. Gore and giving him a 107-vote victory margin.

But the dimple standard was also the subject of the most disagreement among coders, and Mr. Bush fought the use of this standard in recounts in Palm Beach, Broward and Miami- Dade Counties. Many dimples were so light that only one coder saw them, and hundreds that were seen by two were not seen by three. In fact, counting dimples that three people saw would have given Mr. Gore a net of just 318 additional votes and kept Mr. Bush in the lead by 219.

Using the most restrictive standard — the fully punched ballot card — 5,252 new votes would have been added to the Florida total, producing a net gain of 652 votes for Mr. Gore, and a 115-vote victory margin.

All the other combinations likewise produced additional votes for Mr. Gore, giving him a slight margin over Mr. Bush, when at least two of the three coders agreed.
Looks like you are correct, if we use data on which two coders agree. Requiring three coders to agree and it goes back to Bush.
 
Written By: Don
URL: http://
Looks like you are correct, if we use data on which two coders agree. Requiring three coders to agree and it goes back to Bush.
This was only the undervotes, when the overvotes were included, when the clear intent of the voter could be determined, Gore when in every possible scenario except the one where Katherine Harris would be locked in a room with all of the ballots and a can of kerosene.

Cap
 
Written By: CaptinSarcastic
URL: http://
"That’s nearly one out of every five"

Si. Es verdad.
 
Written By: timactual
URL: http://
This was only the undervotes, when the overvotes were included, when the clear intent of the voter could be determined, Gore when in every possible scenario except the one where Katherine Harris would be locked in a room with all of the ballots and a can of kerosene.
I quote again:
and combined with the results of an examination of overvotes
Now, what’s with you sore loosers and Katherine Harris?
 
Written By: Don
URL: http://
Si. Es verdad.
Lets see... 1,100,000 voter ID cards sent, 201,713 returned as undeliverable. 18%? That’s nearly one out of every five!
Of course, it must be fraud, because we know governments never make mistakes and send huge numbers of documents to the wrong people.

At one time, a federal computer glitch listed everyone in Hartford, Connecticut as dead.

Think about all the dead people who were registered to vote... ?

I thought distrust of government was greater than distrust of people... oh wait, this is NEO-libertarian, just like libertarian only without the distrust of government.

Cap
 
Written By: CaptinSarcastic
URL: http://
If we KNOW that groups are submitting illegal applications, how do we know we got them all? How do we know some of the false ones didn’t sneak through? If we had a voter id, then Dick Tracy and Michael Jordan might get caught before they cast an illegal vote
How do you prove a negative?

If anything, this story is a good example of why voter ID is not necessary. The applications were caught at the registration stage.

There is a very easy way to solve all of these problems. Vote by mail. Oregon is entirely vote by mail now. And studies show it is less subject to fraud, it leaves a paper trail, and its cheaper.

Leave it to a Blue State to find a more efficient, less costly way of exercising a government function. Given that the Diebolds of the world would lose out, and given that Diebold is a big time GOP contributor, don’t expect the Red States to follow suit anytime soon.

 
Written By: mkultra
URL: http://
If anything, this story is a good example of why voter ID is not necessary. The applications were caught at the registration stage.
Ridiculous. That’s akin to saying, "I don’t need to wear a seatbelt because I’m a careful driver." The veracity of the second part does not eliminate the need for the first.
 
Written By: steverino
URL: http://steverino.journalspace.com/
Vote by mail. Oregon is entirely vote by mail now. And studies show it is less subject to fraud, it leaves a paper trail,
What studies? How do they show this?

If you can still get away with letter bombs and mailed anthrax, it doesn’t seem clear that voting by mail is secure of leaves a paper trail of value.
 
Written By: Don
URL: http://
Ridiculous. That’s akin to saying, "I don’t need to wear a seatbelt because I’m a careful driver." The veracity of the second part does not eliminate the need for the first.
Nice try, but the analogy is inapt. You don’t have a constitutional right to drive.

When I say voter ID is unnecessary, I mean it’s an unnecessary infringment on the constitutional right to vote. Would it stop a few people from voting fraudulenty? Maybe. Would it infringe on the rights of millions to vote? Definitely.

The reason cited for voter ID is that there is nothing to stop someone from voting fraudulently if they are not forced to show ID. This story blows a hole directly in that argument. There are already checks in the system.

What is it with wingers that they want to pile impediment after impediment on someone’s constitutional rights? A woman has a right to an abortion. Wingers want to make her wait 24 hours. A citizen has a right to vote. Wingers want to make them show ID. A citizen has the right to ....

You get the idea.
 
Written By: mkultra
URL: http://
What studies? How do they show this?
This is probably the best one - it reviews Oregon’s systems and talks about a number of the advantages of Oregon’s system and about how the system reduces the chances of fraud, particularly given changes being made this month in Oregon.

http://www.sos.state.or.us/executive/CarterBaker.pdf

One problem with vote by mail is that it increases "turn out." Which is another reason the right wing tends to oppose it.
 
Written By: mkultra
URL: http://
Nice try, but the analogy is inapt. You don’t have a constitutional right to drive.
Are you really this dense? The analogy had nothing to do with constitutionality. It was about the folly of eschewing one level of protection because you use a different level.

Next time, don’t bring up a side issue in an attempt to discredit a valid analogy.
What is it with wingers that they want to pile impediment after impediment on someone’s constitutional rights? A woman has a right to an abortion. Wingers want to make her wait 24 hours. A citizen has a right to vote. Wingers want to make them show ID. A citizen has the right to ....
Oh, let me finish that one for you: A citizen has the right to own a gun. Wingers want to make them wait 15 days.

Wait. That’s not right-wingers.

 
Written By: steverino
URL: http://steverino.journalspace.com/
Interesting study. Doesn’t quite say exactly what MK things it does though. Two quotes:

"Oregon has historically had a clean, open, and permeable election system, with no history of machine politics or election fraud. Oregon election officials remain proud of their non-partisan tradition. The implication is that while voting by mail has worked well in Oregon, it may not work as well in regions, states, or localities with a more contentious political culture." - page 6

Might want to hold off on the champagn celebration of vote-by-mail as the savior of the democratic process.
And to his obligatory "winger" nonsense:

"There is no evidence that it [vote by mail] provides any partisan advantage. In summary, there is some evidence that VBM results in a small increase in the size of the electorate, and no evidence that it changes the composition of the electorate." - page 2
 
Written By: Tom
URL: http://
Why are some of you refighting the 2000 election? Gore was a c*nt who set a dangerous preceedent by dragging lawsuits into an election.
 
Written By: Shark
URL: http://
Rereading this thread’s smart commentariat, I’m only more convinced than ever. Obfuscation and hooliganism have succeeded where a lawful vote failed.

We will never know whether the butterfly ballot really "confused" the voters into voting for Buchannon - which was the rationale for the Florida Supreme Court’s consideration of Gore’s case in the first place.

Our media-research institutes and media won’t affford the topic much notice.

But, six years and a lot of newsprint later, "confusing" Butterfly-ballots and dimpled chads don’t appear all that important, now, do they?
-Steve
 
Written By: Steve
URL: http://
Nice try, but the analogy is inapt. You don’t have a constitutional right to drive.
I have never laughed so hard at anything mk has posted as I did at this. Jeez Louise, what a dunderheaded thing to say.
 
Written By: Billy Hollis
URL: http://
From the NYTimes article linked to above:

Another complicating factor in the effort to untangle the result is the overseas absentee ballots that arrived after Election Day. A New York Times investigation earlier this year showed that 680 of the late- arriving ballots did not meet Florida’s standards yet were still counted. The vast majority of those flawed ballots were accepted in counties that favored Mr. Bush, after an aggressive effort by Bush strategists to pressure officials to accept them.

A statistical analysis conducted for The Times determined that if all counties had followed state law in reviewing the absentee ballots, Mr. Gore would have picked up as many as 290 additional votes, enough to tip the election in Mr. Gore’s favor in some of the situations studied in the statewide ballot review.

But Mr. Gore chose not to challenge these ballots because many were from members of the military overseas, and Mr. Gore did not want to be accused of seeking to invalidate votes of men and women in uniform.
This is typical NY Times dishonesty. Irrespective of 680 absentee votes that may have been counted (as they legally should have been), there were at least 788 military absentee votes that were not counted as a result of Democrat challenges. Those uncounted votes were the subject of a lawsuit in US District Court (ND of Florida) at the time that the US Supreme Court issued its ruling. That federal case was terminated before it was adjudicated because after the SCOTUS ruling it became moot. They were never made part of the certified total which was the starting point for all the media recounts. It was estimated to have provided another 500 votes for Bush. The only count that would have favored Gore would have been a count of all over and under votes and that would have given him a margin of victory of 171 votes. Therefore, if the military votes not been excluded, there would have been no scenario in which Gore would have won.

Furthermore, the most misleading thing about this article is that it references Florida state law (which required the absentee ballots to have a postmark dated before the election amongst other things). The State of Florida had entered into a consent decree with the USDOJ wherein they agreed to abide by the Uniformed and Overseas Citizens Absentee Voting Act (UOCAVA). That consent decree made the ballots that Gore’s incompetent attorneys challenged perfectly valid.
 
Written By: jt007
URL: http://
When I was registering voters, we got paid by the number of registrants for our party. Now, I was just doing it for civic duty, but I ran into several GOP voters who re-registered with me because some guy two weeks earlier had convinced them to register as a Democrat to "see both sides."

I don’t think it was that the Democrat guy was trying to swing the vote, but to maximize his earnings. I think we got paid like US$ 5 / card, so 35,000 cards would be pretty valuable.

But keep in mind, in St. Louis, it’s all about Dem primary...you’d think Dems would want fair primaries because there is not any chance a GOP guy would be elected anyways.



 
Written By: Harun
URL: http://
How does voting by mail prevent someone from voting as multiple people? If I know my neighbors don’t vote, can’t I just vote as them in addition to my vote?

And can’t people just steal ballots out of mailboxes?
 
Written By: JWG
URL: http://
"And can’t people just steal ballots out of mailboxes? "

Of course not! That’s illegal.
 
Written By: timactual
URL: http://
WASHINGTON — At a time when many states are instituting new requirements for voter registration and identification, a preliminary report to the U.S. Election Assistance Commission has found little evidence of the type of polling-place fraud those measures seek to stop.

USA TODAY obtained the report from the commission four months after it was delivered by two consultants hired to write it. The commission has not distributed it publicly.

NEW LAWS: Thousands of voters shut out | Read the preliminary report

At least 11 states have approved new rules for independent voter-registration drives or requirements that voters produce specific forms of photo ID at polling places. Several of those laws have been blocked in court, most recently in Arizona last week. The House of Representatives last month approved a photo-ID law, now pending in the Senate.

The bipartisan report by two consultants to the election commission casts doubt on the problem those laws are intended to address. "There is widespread but not unanimous agreement that there is little polling-place fraud, or at least much less than is claimed, including voter impersonation, ’dead’ voters, non-citizen voting and felon voters," the report says.

The report, prepared by Tova Wang, an elections expert at the Century Foundation think tank, and Job Serebrov, an Arkansas attorney, says most fraud occurs in the absentee ballot process, such as through coercion or forgery. Wang declined to comment on the report, and Serebrov could not be reached for comment.

Others who reviewed the report for the election commission differ on its findings. Jon Greenbaum of the liberal Lawyers’ Committee for Civil Rights Under Law says it was convincing. The committee wrote to the commission Friday seeking its release.

Conservatives dispute the research and conclusions. Thor Hearne, counsel to the American Center for Voting Rights, notes that the Justice Department has sued Missouri for having ineligible voters registered, while dead people have turned up on the registration rolls in Michigan. "It is just wrong to say that this isn’t a problem," he says.

That’s one reason the commission decided not to officially release the report. "There was a division of opinion here," Chairman Paul DeGregorio says. "We’ve seen places where fraud does occur."

The consultants found little evidence of that. Barry Weinberg, former deputy chief of the voting section in the Justice Department’s civil rights division, reviewed their work. "Fraud at the polling place is generally difficult to pull off," he says. "It takes a lot of planning and a lot of coordination."
Shouldn’t you be more concerned regarding the many problems of electronic voting machines already documented? Not this petty and scarce voter fraud?
 
Written By: Louis Joliet
URL: http://
Voter fraud almost always involves paper. As John Fund has pointed out, in more than 20 years of using electronic voting machines, there has never been a verified case of voter fraud utilizing those machines.

With paper, however — whether paper registration forms or paper ballots — the examples of fraud are almost too numerous to list.

Sometimes simplest isn’t best.

 
Written By: Rick Sincere
URL: http://www.RickSincere.com
Voter fraud almost always involves paper. As John Fund has pointed out, in more than 20 years of using electronic voting machines, there has never been a verified case of voter fraud utilizing those machines.
The key word there is verified. With paper ballots, there is a trail to be examined. With EV, one can commit voter fraud and no one would ever know about it.
TRENTON, N.J. - A Princeton University computer science professor added new fuel Wednesday to claims that electronic voting machines used across much of the country are vulnerable to hacking that could alter vote totals or disable machines.

In a paper posted on the university’s Web site, Edward Felten and two graduate students described how they had tested a Diebold AccuVote-TS machine they obtained, found ways to quickly upload malicious programs and even developed a computer virus able to spread such programs between machines.
"And that subverts the integrity of the voting system whether you like to admit it or not."

But no. Lets worry about a puny little fraud that was foiled and force everyone to carry papers. Funny little "libertarian" site you have here.
 
Written By: Louis Joliet
URL: http://
We already went through this wtih an earlier post.
Going through it again fits in nicely with the frantic atmosphere of the campaign season.

There are genuine concerns about fraud in voting, and there are genuine concerns about voter intimidation, the vulnerablity to hacking of voting systems, etc.

To deal with these issues honestly takes more than zeroing in on one potential problem area, go for the quick fix, and ignore the consequences.

 
Written By: Laime
URL: http://
Ah yes, let’s conflate this to "Papers please" stops on the street by the State Security Police.

Funny thing, I use my charge card at the store, and the clerks frequently demand to see my ID (outrage!)
I go to the bank, and sometimes they want to see my ID when I ask for money from MY account! (The nerve!)

Course I’m one of those unusual people that sees this as an attempt by other people to protect ME from people who are trying to use MY name to do things fraudulently. I actually appreciate the effort.

But do go on with your psuedo outrage.
 
Written By: looker
URL: http://
Why is it that nobody seems to have any problem with having our social security numbers, dob, etc. tossed about quite freely for every purpose but the original ones, yet requiring some of this information to be presented at the polls is greeted with outrage? Incidentally, social security cards used to have printed on them, in red ink, "Not to be Used for Identification".
 
Written By: timactual
URL: http://
For the same reason that such people decry private corporations creating databases containing various bits of personal information, but if it includes a list of firearms owned, all privacy concerns go out the window.
 
Written By: h0mi
URL: http://

 
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