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VA Medical Care : So which is it?
Posted by: McQ on Monday, March 05, 2007

If in fact the left wants to talk about government run health care and how wonderful it is, well, it's the best thing since sliced bread:
The Best Care Anywhere

Ten years ago, veterans hospitals were dangerous, dirty, and scandal-ridden. Today, they're producing the highest quality care in the country. Their turnaround points the way toward solving America's health-care crisis.
However, when it is politically advantageous to slam the present administration, well not so much:
They are evidence not of a few tragic isolated problems, but of systemic neglect that has nearly crippled the U.S. veterans' health system ...
So?

Which is it?

And if it is the latter, why should we trust the government to run anything like health care?
 
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More importantly, I think, is the idea that this is an example of what healthcare becomes in the hands of government. The Democrats push this now at their future peril.



 
Written By: Bithead
URL: http://
’When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone,’ it means just what I choose it to mean, neither more nor less.’
’The question is,’ said Alice, ’whether you can make words mean so many different things.’
’The question is,’ said Humpty Dumpty, ’which is to be master - that’s all.’
Yep, I think that says it rather well. Including the character using the same words to mean different things.
 
Written By: looker
URL: http://
Personally I think you need to give a hat tip to Badger.

Wasn’t he the one arguing that we should be excoriating the administration over Walter Reed, but was excited about public health care (for which the administration should get no credit) because of the story you are linking to? I think it was. I think I remember pointing that very thing out to him. Whereupon he disappeared (nothing implied by that Badger. People disappear from threads all the time and it implies nothing, I was just curious about how you saw that seeming contradiction. Besides, Badgers do go underground fairly often.)

So we should all thank Badger. We got a good post, righty talking points just picked up by Instapundit, and we owe it all to Badger. Kevin Drum will be thrilled when I tell him.
 
Written By: Lance
URL: http://asecondhandconjecture.com
"So?

Which is it?
That’s easy. It is both! At least in the Liberal Narrative. There is no requirement of consistency. Let me put it in a sentence:
The VA system is a living example of how we should be solving our health care problem/ nuance /It is another example of the extent that the incompetence of the Bush administration has led to its failure.
What goes in the "nuance" part? Well just see what the liberals have to say in answer to your question here.
Of course, a liberal only covers the "nuance" part when under attack from critics. First step 1) Decry the rightwingnoisemachine/wingnut for bringing up the inconsistency. That is all one need do on a leftie blog. End of discussion. 2) Cite a list of differences between the VA and the perfect branch of government that would theoretically be in charge of universal health care. Make some up. Use big or buzz words. Bring in (whether it logically fits or not) widows and orphans. Describe anyone who might object as a heartless, vile, skinflint neanderthal. Don’t worry, like a wolf running a stag, another liberal will jump in and elucidate any missed concepts. 3) Follow up (no matter how badly the discussion has gone) with: "Now that your ridiculous contention has been totally debunked..."
Piece of cake.
 
Written By: notherbob2/robert fulton
URL: http://
Well, I’ll throw a little bit of simian wrench into this pot;

I wonder if we should be taking the shock and surprise being expressed by certain among the Congress critters, as to the conditions at Walter Reed to mean that they honestly didn’t know that the conditions were that bad. I want you to think about this seriously, now; How would that be, that they didn’t know?

* If the conditions were as bad as we’re being told, wouldn’t you think that they would have heard from some of the people in that hospital either for treatment, or for a visit? Constituents, I mean. People from their district. Are we to assume that because these were military types that the politicos in question assumed they could be ignored? Apparently, that’s precisely what happened.

More;

* If the conditions were as bad as we are being led to believe by current reports, would we not have heard from the Congress critters themselves, as they went about their visits to the injured soldiers there? I do mean regular visits, to the old other" areas of the hospital, not just those areas reserved for photo opportunities.... We can only assume, that such regular visits did not occur. For years. Decades, given the length of ’service’ of some of these congressional morons.

All of this leads us to the logical question of why they are now so suddenly interested in the goings on at Walter Reed, when I would guess they’ve been ignoring the cries for help from the place for quite some time, and certainly there shadow hasn’t darkened the door of the place, for some years now, save when flashbulbs were flashing.

If there’s a problem at the place, by all means investigate it, fire those responsible, cure the problem. I’m not questioning by any stretch of imagination that the problems at Reed are real. However; all the wailing and gnashing of teeth coming from the party currently in power over this issue, seems a little disingenuous at best. The reports we’re getting now, are that Reed has been at least this bad for at least the last twenty years. So how is it that the people in Congress most whom have been there at least that long, didn’t know about it?

The timing of this sudden flurry of activity, after so long a period of silence , given the conditions of names, would seem to suggest some intent other than the welfare of our soldiers. They’ve never shown a great deal of interest before. Why now?

I’m not suggesting that’s the only motivation across the political spectrum.... But the press is needed, really to start this kind of ball rolling. It didn’t really get going, until they signed onto it. So, he question:

Did this longstanding issue come up so loud, so suddenly, because somebody needed an excuse to attack the war in Iraq?
 
Written By: Bithead
URL: http://
And this is the Government who want’s to provide the rest of us medical care? Washington couldn’t run a one car funeral either efficiently or economially.

Hi, I’m from Washington, and I am here to help you. Please bend over and grab your ankles.
 
Written By: James E. Fish
URL: http://
Ten years ago Congress appropriately blasted the Veterans Health Administration for poor care. VHA administrators took this message to heart and diligently fixed the problem: low scores on national indicators of health care quality. They spent lots of money and told VA medical center directors to get better numbers! And they did. They focused like a laser on quality indicators and now get great scores.

What they did not do was significantly improve care.

Nanny-state supporting liberals love a government success story, especially one that supports more federalization of health care, so they trumpet the VHA’s success as an exemplar of what ’good’ government provides — Potemkin villages.

Dr. T, a VAMC physician
 
Written By: Dr. T
URL: http://
Where are the opposing views? There is an answer to McQ’s question, isn’t there. Which is true?

Crickets chirping.
 
Written By: Lance
URL: http://asecondhandconjecture.com
"...crickets chirping..."
Yeah, I know it is egotistical to believe that my comment drove off the liberals. However, just imagine a liberal running their intended response by 1), 2) and 3) of my comment. They see the utter vapidity of their response and they decide against clicking on the "Add Comment" button.

Of course, there is always the Professor Erb approach of totally ignoring the framing of the question and dumping a load of talking points, claiming that they came to him while reading obscure tomes and communing with European gurus.

Let’s face it; McQ has done the equivalent of the bullfighter cape spin, leaving liberals to shake their heads in bewilderment. Ole!!
 
Written By: notherbob2/robert fulton
URL: http://
Haven’t any of you been paying attention? Government programs always counteract the systemic failures of the market EXCEPT when the government fails to spend enough money on them. The word "enough" is defined as "more than the government spends now". If all those greedy conservatisves would just let us tax the crap out of the rich all government programs would be properly funded, and would finally work like they are supposed to.

Just look at Germany: they have recognized that their people are under-taxed and are courageously deciding that the citizens in the voting minority must pay more so that the government programs that make the economy and society possible can finally be funded at levels where they will be effective. Why don’t Americans get it?
 
Written By: DS
URL: http://
C’mon guys, the answer is obvious — the VA provided The Best Care Anywhere up until January 20, 2001, at which point it immediately started to go downhill.
 
Written By: kenB
URL: http://
Does this mean that "support the troops" is merely political posturing by all sides?
 
Written By: darohu
URL: http://
"Does this mean that "support the troops" is merely political posturing by all sides?"
Enter liberal (re)framing of the issue. Translation: "You stupid righties. We must stop discussing this upsetting blatant inconsistency in the LN and talk about something else. Supporting the troops is a good choice. You righties always respond appropriately when we throw stupid red meat like that into the discussion. When you respond, however you respond, we are off on that topic and we can just drop the embarrassing inconsistency thing."
 
Written By: notherbob2/robert fulton
URL: http://
The DS comment above deserves some applause, I think. Brilliant comment. Take away the sarcasm and you have one of the pillars of the LN. Libeals will puzzle over the comment for a while before they pick up on the sarcasm.

Don’t think so? Re-read DS’ comment (presumably to be made on a liberal blog) with a few slight changes:

"Haven’t any of you been paying attention? Government programs counteract the systemic failures of the market except when the government fails to spend enough money on them. If all those greedy conservatisves would just let us tax the rich, government programs would be properly funded, and would finally work like they are supposed to.

Just look at Germany: they have recognized that their people are under-taxed and are courageously deciding that the wealthy must pay more so that the government programs that make the economy and society possible can finally be funded at levels where they will be effective. Why don’t Americans get it?"

 
Written By: notherbob2/robert fulton
URL: http://
notherbob
nice nice duck and roll
this is real........
perhaps difficult to fix blame, but
does it or does it not speak about how we all support our troops?
 
Written By: darohu
URL: http://
Translation of darohu: "Come, come rightie. You know you want that red meat. Here, let me put it in your dish. We lefties are soooo clever. Even when you think you have us, we simply outthink you and you trip the snare anyway. We are so...intellectual; and we are so elite. You cannot resist a chance to wave the flag and unload some of your right wing crap. All I have to do is be a little subtle and you will take the bait. Here rightie, rightie....
 
Written By: notherbob2/robert fulton
URL: http://
Is it just me or are the crickets getting louder?
 
Written By: notherbob2/robert fulton
URL: http://
McQ has done the equivalent of the bullfighter cape spin, leaving liberals to shake their heads in bewilderment. Ole!!
Applause! Cheer!
 
Written By: notherbob2/robert fulton
URL: http://
does it or does it not speak about how we all support our troops?
It speaks to the failure of socialized medicine.

Anyone who really supports the troops supports a free market in medical care.
 
Written By: Don
URL: http://
Well, this has been fun, but just in case you are wondering why no liberal had anything to say on this point:

The Liberal Narrative is silent on it.

Without the LN, liberals have no idea what they think. Lefties have saved themselves the tiresome task of learning about principles, reasoning and consistency (also much confusion and false starts) by simply reading the NYT and, in effect, saying: “Yeah, that. That is what I think." After that they stick with the MSM and no problems, mate. Read a columnist or two, check the WaPo and you’ve got it.
Faced with something new that the think tanks have not processed? Silence. If pressed, change the subject. Failing that, label the questioner a wingnut and refuse to answer on principle. Professor Erb, who is 100% LN all the time (see his comment on the Libby case) has nothing to say (if forced to stay on point) here. Snort.
 
Written By: notherbob2/robert fulton
URL: http://
Double snort.
 
Written By: notherbob2/robert fulton
URL: http://
OK. Last offer. Professor Erb. Do your best to stay on point and I promise I won’t capitalize if you do another "in an arrogant voice" screwup. I will act like it never happened. Can you apply your much-vaunted liberal principles (without the benefit of the LN) to solve this problem or not?
 
Written By: notherbob2/robert fulton
URL: http://
All (liberals) skate. Yeah, even the alternate wolf thing. No smart liberals, though.
 
Written By: notherbob2/robert fulton
URL: http://
I should explain. Like all reasonable people, smart liberals eschew the LN and have done their homework. They have come out with a different take from me on various issues. Fair enough. They may be right and, if so, thank God for them. I really have no problem with classical liberals, as I understand them. Unfortunately, all I encounter are LN liberals. I am assuming that classical liberals appear to be "other than liberals" in today’s environment.
 
Written By: notherbob2/robert fulton
URL: http://
Five entries. Is this thing working?
 
Written By: notherbob2/robert fulton
URL: http://

 
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