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The religion of environmentalism
Posted by: McQ on Thursday, March 22, 2007

In testimony of which you probably heard nothing, Czech President Vaclav Klaus, to borrow a phrase of which my friends on the left are so fond, spoke truth to power:
Czech President Vaclav Klaus said on Wednesday that fighting global warming has turned into a a "religion" that replaced the ideology of communism and threatens to clip basic freedoms.

The right-wing president, a free-market champion, wrote to the U.S. Congress that adopting tough environmental policies to fight climate change would have destructive impact on national economies.

"Communism has been replaced by the threat of an ambitious environmentalism," Klaus wrote in response to questions from the U.S. House of Representatives' Committee on Energy and Commerce.
First, when is the last time you saw a president of a country referred to as a "right-wing president?" Have you seen Jaques Chirac called a "left-wing president"? A phenomenal attempt to bias the article and thus Klaus' message in my estimation (it was a Reuters article afterall).

But his point has validity. Communism was an internationalist movement. This version of environmentalism, Global WarmingTM, is also internationalist in scope. And it certainly has meta-goals which would warm the heart of a good Marxist.
Klaus said poor nations would also be hurt by efforts to impose limits and standards on emissions of gases believed to cause global warming.

"They will not be able to absorb new technological standards required by the anti-greenhouse religion, their products will have difficulty accessing the developed markets, and as a result the gap between them and the developed world will widen," he wrote.

"This ideology preaches earth and nature and under the slogans of their protection — similarly to the old Marxists — wants to replace the free and spontaneous evolution of mankind by a sort of central, now global, planning of the whole world," he added.
Tell me how what he's saying has no validity. How many times do you have to hear 'worldwide effort' to understand where this is eventually going? Explain to me how his points about "slogans of protection" and their result aren't correct. We have a former VP sitting in front of Congress telling us we need to suck it up with 300 billion in new taxes to begin the fight against Global WarmingTM. What's the last governmental estimate on cost that you've ever seen which was even close to the eventual cost. Can you say trillions?

And to what end?

As to the religious aspect, it is beginning to display all the trappings.
Rep. Ed Markey (D-Mass.) called Gore a "prophet" — and his Democratic colleagues treated him as such.
And that was yesterday. Consider this article on his recent reception in Toronto at a recent event:
"I love Al Gore!" somebody yelled from the balcony.

[...]

"Heed the Goracle"!, urged one placard among many welcoming signs outside the University of Toronto's Convocation Hall, where pro-demonstrators (and a polar bear) held a candlelit vigil for Kyoto, just beyond the bank of gas-guzzling limousines.

Once a policy wonk stiffy, so wooden in crowds that he left splinters, Gore has been transformed into Father Earth, ardent advocate for the fragile eco-system, suddenly in sync – arguably catalyst for – a worldwide obsession with the climatic state of the planet.

"It's the difference between watching a video and seeing it on screen," said Tom Sheppard, a 22-year-old University of Waterloo student who was prepared to part with up to $60 for a scalper ticket, which was nowhere near enough for sidewalk entrepreneurs.

"I'll get a much more impassioned view, hearing it from Gore himself. Not that I need any convincing.

[...]

"We've seen the movie but I thought it was important for the kids to have the experience of this event,'' said Julie Quenneville, who arrived with spouse and children in tow.

"I want my kids to embrace the environment because they're the ones who will inherit it. We've already done the damage.''

And, from Gobi Kathirgamantha, another awed spectator: "Gore brought the environment back onto the agenda.''
No cult of personality developing there, huh?

Recently even the New York Times, who has, in the past, helped stoke the fire of environmentalism, published an article citing scientists who essentially agree with the Gore position saying the hype is destroying the credibility of the movement. And yet Gore, et al, continue to build the "consensus" and momentum and arrogantly claim that this "crisis" must be faced and solved now regardless of cost.
Klaus wrote that it was futile to fight against phenomena like higher solar activity or the change of ocean currents, and called for avoiding wasting taxpayers money on what he called doubtful projects.

"No government action can stop the world and nature from changing. Therefore, I disagree with plans such as the Kyoto Protocol or similar initiatives, which set arbitrary targets requiring enormous costs without realistic prospects for the success of these measures," he said.
At this point I agree with Klaus. It is interesting to note that in the recent past, we've managed to live through other predicted crisis such as global cooling, nuclear winter, the "population bomb," acid rain, the hole in the ozone layer, killer bees and a worldwide flu pandemic without trying to destroy humanity in an effort to save it.

What's happening in the evolution of environmentalism into a quasi-religion is frankly dangerous. It has the potential of becoming a world-wide movement which has the sole aim of curtailing man's economic development in the name of "the children". As I see it, such a movement is far more dangerous to man as a whole than the possible outcome of a warmer world. And the Goracle, amazingly, is at its center.
 
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First, when is the last time you saw a president of a country referred to as a "right-wing president?" Have you seen Jaques Chirac called a "left-wing president"?
No, but I have seen Jacques Chirac referred to as a right-wing President. The left hates Chirac, who is a member of the Gaullist party. De Gaulle was a traditional Catholic conservative who at heart was a monarchist. Putting Chirac on the left would be like putting Reagan on the left!

Still Klaus, long considered Europe’s most vocal global warming skeptic politicians (what he’s saying isn’t new for him) is not a right wing politician. I’d label him more liberal (as in the libertarian sense, not the American political jargon sense). He opened up relations with China which his predecessor, Vaclav Havel, avoided. He is a Euroskeptic, though given the Czech Republic’s need for the EU I doubt that will lead to any significant break.
 
Written By: Scott Erb
URL: http://faculty.umf.maine.edu/~erb/blog.htm
And the Goracle, amazingly, is at its center.
And yet the thought he is doing it primarily to satisfy a need to be perceived as publicly relevant is beyond the pale, says the Kav.

Hmm...

I do wonder, how old is Kav, and will he be around do recognize the depth and nature of his error in 50 years, when I presume the computer modeling will be good enough to make the Global Warming (TM) crowd dry up and blow away?

Yours, TDP, ml, msl, & pfpp
 
Written By: Tom Perkins
URL: http://
All-powerful Theocracy, with Gore as the Pope.

All-powerful Government, 100% more "Fascist" that anything Georgie W ever dared dream.

That’s all this is about.
 
Written By: T
URL: http://
For pete’s sake... Jim Jones had a less fanatical following.
 
Written By: Scott
URL: http://
The Toyota Prius is the Holy Grail of the Church of “Humans are the cause all things Evil” and it’s Pope Al Gore. Now a new study shows the Prius is more of a threat to the environment than the Hummer. When you add up all the costs to the environment the Prius is a greater danger three times worse than the pilloried S.U.V. As with any Religion facts are trumped by dogma. The Prius has become the Immaculate Conception, an indulgence sold to assuage the guilt of liberals.
 
Written By: James E. Fish
URL: http://
Pfft... I want a prius just because I hate filling the gas tank...

And dude... A video screen/camera for backing up. Totally awesome.

So how is it that it’s worse?

I just want to be able to list the way, so when people ask if I own it "for the environment" and I tell them no, and why... :)
 
Written By: Scott
URL: http://
Environmentalism as religion is a tired old saw. Try something new once in a while.

Limbaugh did this schtick at least ten years ago.
 
Written By: Pug
URL: http://
It has become a neo-marxist tool to punish & guilt the successful & productive.

In other words to punish capitalism and make people reject it and revile its success.
 
Written By: jpm100
URL: http://
Environmentalism as religion is a tired old saw. Try something new once in a while.
I believe the transformation of Global Warming into a Religion was the point of this dicussion.
Czech President Vaclav Klaus said on Wednesday that fighting global warming has turned into a a "religion" that replaced the ideology of communism and threatens to clip basic freedoms.
 
Written By: James E. Fish
URL: http://
What you are seeing is really an extension of what is known in Europe as the Green Party. With the fall of the Berlin Wall and the disolution of the Soviet Union and the Eastern Bloc, European Socialists found themselves adrift in a sea of "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness."

It almost killed them. After banging the gong for so many years and finally beginning to reap some public affairs benefits and headlines - remember the Anti-Nuke rallies of the late 70s and early 80s - they found themselves back at the bottom of the dungheap because Communism had thrown in the towel. What had almost been an internal Communist takeover of Western Europe during the late 70s and early 80s fell in a heap with the fall of the wall. Where do they go from here.

The Green Party! This eclectic bunch of tree huggers started making waves. Their first target was the military. Not in the sense that you and I would suppose - they didn’t target Nukes and such, although they were out in force whenver there was such a protest against Pershig Missiles and such. But their first target was low flying, high speed, military aircraft. Aircraft that they claimed were destroying the natural world around them with their sonic booms and such.

You gotta remember Germany at time was the center of the anti-soviet stance. Every military man worth his salt was working on the Air-Land Battle scenario - World War Three of Clancy’s vision of the day. And Germany was the center of all the exercizing and military flying. The Greens targeted the low flying. And they won! There is absolutely no high speed low flying below 1500 feet in Germany. And for someone who has to train for the low-altitude environment, 1500 feet is nose-bleed altitudes. German fighter pilots actually rotate to New Mexico and Canada on a regular basis in order to get their low flying training requirements.

The Greens became the new "Darlings of the Left" and now the Socialist rhetoric that had grown sour in the 50s and reached a rancid state by the middle 80s took on a new sound and a new emphasis - the Greens! Gaia, Mother Earth embrassed the rhetoric of the old and with just a little tweaking made it fit the new mold - environmentalism. Now the Socialists of old can embrace their new religion, chanting the same old sayings, attacking the capitalist, attacking the militarist, and instead of saving the Proletariat they are saving the Earth! A match made in Heaven - or Hell - depending upon your point of view.
 
Written By: SShiell
URL: http://

What’s happening in the evolution of environmentalism into a quasi-religion is frankly dangerous. It has the potential of becoming a world-wide movement which has the sole aim of curtailing man’s economic development in the name of "the children". As I see it, such a movement is far more dangerous to man as a whole than the possible outcome of a warmer world.

Sure, right. "Possible" outcomes of a warmer world include drastic climatic changes making deserts swamplands, and fertile plains into deserts, killing and ruining kill millions of people. But this movement... might put up signs suggesting you use different light bulbs.

Let me pause for a minute to weigh the potential of these two threats.

Skepticism on global warming is one thing, but you’ve taken it to a laughable extreme. Make sure to buy some extra ammunition in case Al Gore brings his jackbooted thugs to your house tonight to make you add some insulation.
 
Written By: glasnost
URL: http://
Glas, if all they wanted was to suggest a different bulb, I would be fine with that. Note my use of the word "suggest".

That isn’t what the Greenies want to do though. They want to control every single aspect of our daily life in order to impose upon us what they think we should be doing. And they aren’t even doing it themselves.

Look at Gore’s houses for god’s sake. One man’s family taking up land and materials that could house three families at least. Ignoring the "what about the homeless" part of that, and the waste of building materials and the effects said building had on the environment, the power he uses for his huge home is staggering.

Yes yes, carbon credits... From a business he partly owns. Yeah, he’s really taking it in the pocket book.

And speaking of credits, they mean that he KNOWS he’s a power hog, and he doesn’t care to step down his consumption. He wants his nice, cushy life, and we can go screw ourselves.

I will not, ever, allow anyone to tell me what sort of window to put into my home, or what sort of lightbulb to use. I will most likely use the most efficient type I can purchase for a given price anyways, because it’s good sense financially. But to ORDER me to use something I might not be able to afford? Will Al buy them for me?

I doubt it.

And besides, we’ve endured at least one other "global warming" scare anyways. Then it was global cooling. now it’s warming again. I wonder what’s next... Could there be a cycle to the Earth’s climate? A rotation from cooling to warming, and then back to cooling again?

Environmentalists are batting about .100 (if they are doing that well) on predictions. Oil will be gone... in the 90’s... Oops. No Ozone!!! 10 years ago...

I can still buy gas despite constantly growing useage on this planet, and I’m not roasting after a few minutes in the sun (ok, I’m rarely in the sun, but only because I know the Daystar is Eeeeeevil).

Repeat after me: "Global Warming is not fact. Global Warming is Theory. It is a popular theory, but it only a theory."

Now repeat that until you stop hyperventalating when you see a Hummer pass you on the highway...

I’ll also note that the "consensus" doesn’t actually mean anything. Science is not rules via committee. It’s not a popularity contest. If it was, we’d all be in Europe right now, pulling carts around with horses...
 
Written By: Scott
URL: http://
Make sure to buy some extra ammunition in case Al Gore brings his jackbooted thugs to your house tonight to make you add some insulation.
Don’t give Gore any Ideas, he may be our next President.
 
Written By: James E. Fish
URL: http://
James, on that day I shall rise up and lead The Resistance, much like John Conners...
 
Written By: Scott
URL: http://
Pfft... I want a prius just because I hate filling the gas tank...

And dude... A video screen/camera for backing up. Totally awesome.

So how is it that it’s worse?
I’m curious about that too. Is it really worse for the environment? Does that go for any hybrid?
 
Written By: Scott Erb
URL: http://faculty.umf.maine.edu/~erb/blog.htm
I’m curious about that too. Is it really worse for the environment? Does that go for any hybrid?
It’s explained at the link he provided. It seems sound, but have a look for yourself. From the criteria used, I would say that it does apply to just about any hybrid (hint: the batteries are where the trouble arises).
Sure, right. "Possible" outcomes of a warmer world include drastic climatic changes making deserts swamplands, and fertile plains into deserts, killing and ruining kill millions of people. But this movement... might put up signs suggesting you use different light bulbs.
Another possible outcome is that Canada becomes a superpower thanks to the great thaw *shudder*. I don’t want my kids subjected to such a world... Seriously though, the Romans used to maintain vineyards in Britain. Grow up and stop fearing "teh warming!!1!11"
 
Written By: Jordan
URL: http://
Make sure to buy some extra ammunition in case Al Gore brings his jackbooted thugs to your house tonight to make you add some insulation
You should use Carbon-neutral weaponry to stop them. Love the irony!
 
Written By: shark
URL: http://
Another possible outcome is that Canada becomes a superpower thanks to the great thaw *shudder*. I don’t want my kids subjected to such a world.
Oh, take off hoser. Do you want some back bacon with that? Beauty.
 
Written By: Scott Erb
URL: http://faculty.umf.maine.edu/~erb/blog.htm
"Seriously though, the Romans used to maintain vineyards in Britain"

They still have vineyards.
When I was in Alfriston, England, some years ago, I happened upon a sign directing travelers to the "English Wine Center". There actually is one. I have never knowingly tasted any English wine, but I am sure it is a suitable accompaniment for English cuisine.

http://www.ukattraction.com/south-east-england/english-wine.htm
 
Written By: timactual
URL: http://
One way to help stop global warming is to cut down all the trees in northern climes. Apparently its only tropical trees that help cool the earth, while northern forests warm it.

I am suprised Canada has not started to clear cut their entire country to help save the Earth.
 
Written By: Harun
URL: http://
I have never knowingly tasted any English wine, but I am sure it is a suitable accompaniment for English cuisine.
That is damning with faint praise. LOL

 
Written By: James E. Fish
URL: http://
Any man who doesn’t care for bangers and mash is gay, and a communist...

There, I said it...
 
Written By: Scott
URL: http://
Tom I (touch wood) will be around in 50 years. And as I have said ad nauseum I hope that I am wrong about climate change. I would also point out that I am not an advocate for the ’we must change our whole economic model’ and have urged caution in going forward. I have spoke about the message getting mangled by bad explanation leading to basic misunderstandings, its a problem that needs solving.

I just read the Washington Post article, I particularly liked this:
Inhofe informed Gore that scientists are "radically at odds with your claims." Displaying a photograph of icicles in Buffalo, Inhofe demanded: "How come you guys never seem to notice it when it gets cold? . . . Where is global warming when you really need it?"
I recommend that those who disbelieve in the man-made effect (or indeed change in climate at all) speak to the guys on ’your side’ to give them a basic understanding in the difference between weather and climate (Disclaimer - I have not seen a transcipt from the session and so cannot be sure if Inhofe was making a joke).

 
Written By: Kav
URL: http://livingrealworld.blogspot.com
Oh, take off hoser. Do you want some back bacon with that? Beauty.
Holy Mike! It has a sense of humor. Who knew?

Yours, TDP, ml, msl, & pfpp
 
Written By: Tom Perkins
URL: http://
Tom,

Suspect we should verify the IP before we adopt that position.

And Kav doesn’t get humor:
Inhofe: "Where is global warming when you really need it?"

Kav:I have not seen a transcipt from the session and so cannot be sure if Inhofe was making a joke.
 
Written By: Don
URL: http://
Skepticism on global warming is one thing, but you’ve taken it to a laughable extreme
Sorry Glaz, you’ll need to buy a new line. Most of us agree, it’s getting warmer. So we’re not skeptics on that issue.

Most of us do not agree with Al ( & probably you) about WHY it’s getting warmer. We know why Al thinks it’s getting warmer, and we think he’s, well, contributing more than his fair share of hot-air every time he talks about it.
In fact, he’s going to have to buy a lot more carbon credits to offset his speeches before Congress.

Most of us do not agree that we can stop it, since we don’t believe we are the proximate cause in the first place.

Most of us do not agree that the U.S. government, or the U.N., or any other government is going to do much constructive to change it. However they will tax the snot out of us and destroy our viable economies so China and India can fill the sky with all the ’greenhouse’ gases they want while basing their argument for doing so on the premise "someone has to do something!!!!!".

Most of us don’t believe the climate ’science’ is nearly as much science as it should be. We’d like to see better models that can demonstrate accurate climate projections using known data that proves current warming, let alone presumptive models that are trying to predict what it’s going to be like in 10 years.

Most of us believe consensus is NOT necessarily good science and is certainly not a good method for making economic decisions.

So skeptics, yes, but cause/solution skeptics, not Global Warming (TM) skeptics.
 
Written By: looker
URL: http://

Most of us do not agree with Al ( & probably you) about WHY it’s getting warmer. We know why Al thinks it’s getting warmer, and we think he’s, well, contributing more than his fair share of hot-air every time he talks about it.
Actually most scientists agree that humans are part of the cause, but not all of the cause. Moreover, we’re not sure how big that part is. Thus they argue that given how much we’ve increased polluting the atmosphere, there is a chance we are a significant part of the cause, and therefore we should try to find ways to cut back on green house gases (lest we end up like Venus).

That seems rational to me.
 
Written By: Scott Erb
URL: http://faculty.umf.maine.edu/~erb/blog.htm
Oh Don, I do get humour. But I have seen too many folks seriously using the ’it was freezing today so global warming doesn’t exist’ argument to accept that any comment along those lines is a joke. Especially from Inhofe.

Seems to me he was using snark to try and make a point rather than he was making a joke about his own ’evidence’. Of course, that is taken only from the reporter’s piece.
 
Written By: kav
URL: http://livingrealwo
But I have seen too many folks seriously using the ’it was freezing today so global warming doesn’t exist’ argument to accept that any comment along those lines is a joke.
Kav, tilting at strawmen, awards himself points.

Yours, TDP, ml, msl, & pfpp
 
Written By: Tom Perkins
URL: http://
I recommend that those who disbelieve in the man-made effect (or indeed change in climate at all) speak to the guys on ’your side’ to give them a basic understanding in the difference between weather and climate (Disclaimer - I have not seen a transcipt from the session and so cannot be sure if Inhofe was making a joke).
That’s kind of fnny coming from Climate Change Inc., since "their side" are the most egregious violators of this principal.

It is a reaction to the people in the big offices at Climate Change Inc. who scream global warming every time the temperature, rainfall, or any kind of storm anywhere, is above the normal average for any amount of time. Heat waves, those things have never happened before in the history of the planet, until the last 100 years the termperature was always right at the average and never went above. Droughts, those things have never happened before in the history of the planet, it is only in the last 100 years that some places have experienced less rainfall than average. But my favorite is hurricanes. Although we are in a very predictable up-cycle in hurricane activity (last seen in the 1960’s) even though none of the hurricanes experienced have been unprecedented in either strength or frequency, these things have been used as evidence that global warming in "real". Funny how in 2006 there wasn’t a single significant named storm to hit the U.S. and nobody at Climate Change Inc. made the connection that maybe Global Warming (TM) must not be happening after all, since there were no hurricanes.

Then, just to make sure that they have all their bases covered, Global Warming (TM) will ALSO, simultaneously cause global cooling, so that no matter what happens to the earth’s climate it can be blamed on Global Warming (TM). Brilliant!

The sad fact is that most people screaming Global Warming (TM) don’t even understand the theory behind it.

I just find it very humorous when this kind of junk science is thrown right back in their faces. If Global Warming (TM) causes hurricanes (we never had those before), then doesn’t the abcense of hurricanes prove that Global Warming (TM) doesn’t exist? If Global Warming (TM) causes higher than normal temperatures (we’ve never had those before) don’t lower than normal temperatures prove that it doesn’t exist?

You can’t have it both ways.
 
Written By: DS
URL: http://

Then, just to make sure that they have all their bases covered, Global Warming (TM) will ALSO, simultaneously cause global cooling, so that no matter what happens to the earth’s climate it can be blamed on Global Warming (TM). Brilliant!
If you understand the science, you’ll know that some places will get cooler, and others much warmer. Moreover, there is very little skepticism about global warming, just questions about how much of it is caused by people. Most are convinced it’s significant enough that we can make a difference. Some don’t want to make any sacrifices under any conditions, others don’t want to sacrifice until there is absolute proof, others are ready to sacrifice because the possible consequences are so dire. I follow the science, which means to avoid hype, avoid politicizing the issue, and think rationally about the material at hand.
 
Written By: Scott Erb
URL: http://faculty.umf.maine.edu/~erb/blog.htm
No cult of personality developing there, huh?
Absolutely amazing, given there’s still argument whether or not he actually has one.

If you understand the science, you’ll know that some places will get cooler, and others much warmer
Yep. All without help from Man.
I follow the science, which means to avoid hype, avoid politicizing the issue, and think rationally about the material at hand.
Really?
Hmmm. Well, we’re still waiting for the GoreBots (tm) to start explaining the warming happening on Mars and Jupiter. Mars can be easily explained, since we’ve plunked a couple of those evil SUV’s up there and have been driving them around.
Jupiter, not so much.

Perhaps YOU would care to take a crack at it?




 
Written By: Bithead
URL: http://
The entire debate over Global Warming, or Cooling, or any other global effect is something that is just wasting all of our time. We all know the earth’s environment changes over time. We all know that various pollutants/gases/water vapor changes/etc... can have an effect in the rate/amount of that change.

What we should really be discussing is terraforming technologies. How do we fine tune the environment that exists, into one that is of the greatest benefits to the greatest numbers of inhabitants on the planet. Does a warmer world than we now enjoy actually bring larger benefits if we were able to alter the planet’s environment to boost crops? Or usable land mass?

What should be self evident is that mankind should be pushing for the ability to regulate the planet at will, up or down in ’temperature’. Only the religious luddites wish to curtail man’s developement with strict controls. We should all be firmly behind developing the means to warm or cool the planet at our discretion.

That ability (or just the concept) should surely give the greenies fits.
 
Written By: John
URL: http://
Oh Tom, I’m glad you’re here. You just keep me laughing :-)
 
Written By: Kav
URL: http://livingrealworld.blogspot.com
DS,

I’m not trying to have it both ways. I agree with you that the weather angle is used on both sides and it bugs me equally. I have said it on this site and others before. It’s another example of our having failed to communicate the issue adequately and others taking what seems to be fair, logical leaps. Sometimes its dishonest (on both sides) and sometimes it is simply ignorance (on both sides).
 
Written By: Kav
URL: http://livingrealworld.blogspot.com

 
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