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"....they have never questioned their fundamental ideology..."
Posted by: Billy Hollis on Sunday, May 06, 2007

And I suspect they never will.
 
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Of course the right-wing will be falling over themselves to pontificate about the reasons for their victory, but as with Labour’s losses in the UK in the 80s (Neil Kinnock spectacularly snatching defeat from the jaws of victory with an idiotic rock-concert style conference on the eve of the election) it is the socialists who lost the election, not the conservatives who won. The right wing is a kind of default selection, there to be used when the good and decent people who want to make the world a better place for everyone, not just themselves (the left) just can’t get it together. The French will rue the day when, years from now, they find themselves forced to work 60-hour weeks for the same real wages they earn now, and they have stronger relationships with their co-workers than their families. Still, I have faith in the French people and admire them greatly for their willingness to stand up for their living standards - let’s see what happens after Sarkozy’s first blunder (I predict it’ll be soon.)
 
Written By: Blewyn
URL: http://blewog.blogspot.com
Of course the left-wing will be falling over themselves to pontificate about the reasons for their loss.
 
Written By: Mark A. Flacy
URL: http://
they find themselves forced to work 60-hour weeks for the same real wages they earn now, and they have stronger relationships with their co-workers than their families. Still, I have faith in the French people and admire them greatly for their willingness to stand up for their living standards - let’s see what happens after Sarkozy’s first blunder (I predict it’ll be soon.)
Please - one does not necessarily equate the other. I work 55/60 hours per week and have a great relationship with my family. What I do not have, is time to sit on my duff watching mindless dribble on the tv. I work hard, enjoy my family and live a happy existence. Mayhap the French should give it a go...
 
Written By: meagain
URL: http://
The French will rue the day when, years from now, they find themselves forced to work 60-hour weeks for the same real wages they earn now, and they have stronger relationships with their co-workers than their families.
8 - 10% of the French workers do not have and can not get jobs. Product of the 35 hour week and jobs for life, the Socialists would willingly see them doomed to poverty forever.
 
Written By: unaha-closp
URL: http://
The right wing is a kind of default selection, there to be used when the good and decent people who want to make the world a better place for everyone, not just themselves (the left) just can’t get it together
Yeah, because everyone knows Socialism has made the world better in every country it has ever been enacted.....pompus jacka**.
 
Written By: shark
URL: http://
In most cases it has. It’s just that no-one pays any attention the poor in capitalist countries. The gleaming towers of private empires are built on the skulls of the poor. Can anyone deny that it is materially better to be poor in Cuba than in the US ? Or that quality of life is better (for the working person) in France than US ?

Of course if you judge a country by the number of millionaires per capita, or the number of skyscrapers, or even by its accumulated value, you are answering a completely different question ("which country is richest") to the one you asked ("...has made the world better...").

Socialism in the UK brought medical care to all, implemented a national transport system, ended slums, implemented public health measures and ended all manner of unjust practices. The BBC is proof positive that a command-run industry can outclass its privately-owned counterpart, because the results are down to how it is run, not who runs it. (The same could be true vice versa of course, it’s just that in this case...it’s not.)
 
Written By: Blewyn
URL: http://blewog.blogspot.com
I work 55/60 hours per week and have a great relationship with my family.
Of course you do mate......
 
Written By: Blewyn
URL: http://blewog.blogspot.com
8 - 10% of the French workers do not have and can not get jobs. Product of the 35 hour week and jobs for life, the Socialists would willingly see them doomed to poverty forever.
Not at all - they get social security payments to keep them fed and sheltered. They could work on farms for pennies if they want to....but they don’t HAVE to..
 
Written By: Blewyn
URL: http://blewog.blogspot.com
In most cases it has. It’s just that no-one pays any attention the poor in capitalist countries.


Take a look at America. The are plenty of programs for the poor, aid, assistance. Not to mention the hundreds of millions in private charities...
The gleaming towers of private empires are built on the skulls of the poor.


Please can the World Workers Party rhetoric
Can anyone deny that it is materially better to be poor in Cuba than in the US ?
Actually, yes I can. And I do. And so do the Cubans, who register their preference by risking lives to leave.

More to the point, which poor person has a better chance to better themselves and their station- the one in the US or the one in Cuba? Which poor person has the better opportunities for their children to not be poor? The Cuban or the American?



 
Written By: shark
URL: http://
Can anyone deny that it is materially better to be poor in Cuba than in the US ?
I can. The poor in this country have cars, cable tv, ample food, etc.

How many poor people in the US are sailing out of Miami in barely sea worthy craft to enjoy the good life in Cuba? And how many people in Cuba risk their lives to escape to the squalor of the US?
 
Written By: steverino
URL: http://steverino.journalspace.com/
Not at all - they get social security payments to keep them fed and sheltered. They could work on farms for pennies if they want to....but they don’t HAVE to..
Well SOMEONE has to, don’t they? Where does the money to keep them fed and sheltered come from otherwise?
 
Written By: shark
URL: http://
That guy is being sarcastic, right?
 
Written By: jpm100
URL: http://
That guy is being sarcastic, right?
No, unfortunately, he’s not. The original title of the post was written for folks such as Blewyn.
 
Written By: Billy Hollis
URL: http://
It’s been said twice, but hey, it’s worth saying again. There’s a flow of immigrants between Cuba and the US, and it flows one way and one way only.

Blewyn, I’d suggest this is an opportunity to reconsider some of the rhetoric you’ve swallowed, hook, line, and sinker. The people in an unassailable position to know have voted with their feet, and it basically takes lying to yourself and others to make any other point. (How many Cuban immigrants regret their choice and go back to Cuba?) How many other lies are you telling yourself?
 
Written By: Jeremy Bowers
URL: http://www.jerf.org/iri
8 - 10% of the French workers do not have and can not get jobs. Product of the 35 hour week and jobs for life, the Socialists would willingly see them doomed to poverty forever.
Too simplistic: Europe has diverse unemployment rates, some of the best coming from Scandinavian countries, while big continental economies are stuck at around 8%. That’s over-generalizing, but the point is that it’s more than one factor. Moreover, the PS and Royal have not been endorsing the status quo either. The French will undertake major economic reforms. They will not look like Thatcher or Reagan because the French have a different political culture and set of beliefs. But they will make changes and adapt, pessimism about Europe is way overblown in the US.

Of course, this election points to 16 months of domestic policy. In September 2008 the National Assembly will be voted upon. If the Socialists win there, then they will be in the driving seat for domestic policy. Due to the nature of the French system, a President’s power is markedly curtailed if the opposing party controls the National Assembly. Essentially it would be as if when the Democrats won in 2006 they were able to fire Bush’s cabinet and put their own people in place (save foreign policy, which the French President controls). So Sarkozy has to show some success and avoid getting people mad in the next 16 months.
 
Written By: Scott Erb
URL: http://faculty.umf.maine.edu/~erb/blog.htm
Socialism in the UK brought medical care to all
Socialsim in the Uk brought crappy medical care to all—you are about 7 times as likely to die if you enter a UK hospital vs a US hospital.

And if you want to tell me people in the US don’t receive healthcare: provide names please.

Socialism rendered the once mighty UK a second rate nation. Sad.

 
Written By: Don
URL: http://
Can anyone deny that it is materially better to be poor in Cuba than in the US ? Or that quality of life is better (for the working person) in France than US ?

Joe, is that you? C’mon, stop pulling our legs!

Erb,

They will not look like Thatcher or Reagan because the French have a different political culture and set of beliefs.

No, they will look the same, because a labor market is a labor market is a labor market. People don’t invest in China and Vietnam for the excellent political culture, BTW.

But they will make changes and adapt, pessimism about Europe is way overblown in the US.

This I completely agree with. Things are never as bad as they seem economically.
 
Written By: Harun
URL: http://
Can anyone deny that it is materially better to be poor in Cuba than in the US ? Or that quality of life is better (for the working person) in France than US ?
Joe, is that you? C’mon, stop pulling our legs!
No it’s not me...I can’t tell if this guy is joking or not...I really can’t believe he’s serious, but then he could be a High School or College Freshman...or Ph.D. candidate and believe this stuff, I guess.
 
Written By: Joe
URL: http://
Not joking at all. Take a poor Cuban and compare to a poor American. How many hours a week do they have to work to get by ? How much food do they have ? Do they have healthcare ? Do their kids get educated ?
 
Written By: Blewyn
URL: http://blewog.blogspot.com
Not joking at all. Take a poor Cuban and compare to a poor American. How many hours a week do they have to work to get by ?
As to "getting by" Blewyn, you realize that "poor" Americans have AC, multiple colour TV’s, usually 1 if not 2 cars, and some 30-40% of them own their own domociles, right? So, let’s examine, THAT shall we?
How much food do they have ?
So much so that it is the LOWER socio-economic classes that face an obesity crisis
Do they have healthcare ?
Yes, they do, the question is do they have health INSURANCE, and how should their healthcare be best provided, not do they have health care?
Do their kids get educated ?
Uh, yes, again, you might not be from around these parts, but we have this thing called the "Public Education" system, sucks up bag loads of dollars to produce a fairly mundane, but fairly UNIVERSAL product. In fact, Illegals are stressing this system, meaning that even the poor undocumented, and oppressed migrant workers child IS getting an education, or what passes for one in this nation.

Others will no doubt task you with more and worse facts. You might want to stop reading Izvestia, Trud, The Militant or the Guardian for your US coverage and actually try a few American papers.
 
Written By: Joe
URL: http://
Not joking at all. Take a poor Cuban and compare to a poor American. How many hours a week do they have to work to get by ? How much food do they have ? Do they have healthcare ? Do their kids get educated ?
Joe, stop it. We all know poor American kids get used to cover puddles and dog crap so rich plutocrats wearing monacles don’t have to get their shoes dirty while on their way to the Monarchs club to drink brandy from snifters and play whist.

Blewyn....you shouldn’t opine on what you have no knowledge of. Boilerplate rhetoric from your Socialist/Communist pamphlete doesn’t really count.
 
Written By: shark
URL: http://
Oh Shark, Monocles and Spats are so passé....
 
Written By: Joe
URL: http://
I work 55/60 hours per week and have a great relationship with my family.

Of course you do mate......
Wow Blewyn. You know me so well from one post. Get a grip dude. I start work at 7:00 and wrap up at 5:30 - my point was that when I am done working, I spend TIME with my family instead of watching TV.
 
Written By: meagain
URL: http://
Not at all - they get social security payments to keep them fed and sheltered.
And forever poor. If there was some sort of job available, that was not taken by a protected ensconsed Frenchperson, they could stop being poor.
Moreover, the PS and Royal have not been endorsing the status quo either.
A lot of the PS were publically endorsing the 35 hr week and lifetime employment, even though Royal tried to build a campaign for change.
If the Socialists win there, then they will be in the driving seat for domestic policy.
In a presidential campaign it is relatively easy to coalesce a party around a unified message to appeal to voters, only the PS ineptly failled to do this. They will need to improve their game considerably over the next year if they are to project unity in 2008. And they need to project unity because the electorate in France is much more nationally than locally orientated (due to the nature of the French political system).

 
Written By: unaha-closp
URL: http://warisforwinning.blogspot.com/
Wow Blewyn. You know me so well from one post. Get a grip dude. I start work at 7:00 and wrap up at 5:30 - my point was that when I am done working, I spend TIME with my family instead of watching TV.
Who said anything about watching TV ? Methinks you do protest too much !

Seriously though, you can’t argue that you have the same quality of life or the same potential relationship with your family as someone who only works a 35 hour week - it just doesn’t add up. Someone who starts the same time as you is done by 2pm - and has the rest of the afternoon to do the really important stuff like taking the kids to the park. You personally may be the best parent in the world, but the fact remains that for people and their families in general a 35hr working week is far healthier than a 60hr week.
 
Written By: Blewyn
URL: http://blewog.blogspot.com
And forever poor. If there was some sort of job available, that was not taken by a protected ensconsed Frenchperson, they could stop being poor.
Man read some economics ! Poor is a measure of wealth/income, not how you get that income. A poor person on welfare is the same as a poor person who has to pick fruit all day - poor. If if you get the job of some ’protected’ French person, what then becomes of that person ? Do they magically disappear from the economy ?
 
Written By: Blewyn
URL: http://blewog.blogspot.com
As to "getting by" Blewyn, you realize that "poor" Americans have AC, multiple colour TV’s, usually 1 if not 2 cars, and some 30-40% of them own their own domociles, right? So, let’s examine, THAT shall we?
What about the genuinely poor Americans (those who have nothing). THAT’s who I’m talking about, not the working class. Working and paying rent/mortgage does not mean poor, I mean poor people that have nothing. (slight UK-US English difference maybe). A poor person in Cuba has healthcare, a roof, food and every child gets educated, no ?
Yes, they do, the question is do they have health INSURANCE, and how should their healthcare be best provided, not do they have health care?
Mate I don’t give a monkey’s how it’s paid for or what method of administration it uses - the question is simple. Does a poor person (ie a person who has nothing) have healthcare or not ?
Uh, yes, again, you might not be from around these parts, but we have this thing called the "Public Education" system, sucks up bag loads of dollars to produce a fairly mundane, but fairly UNIVERSAL product. In fact, Illegals are stressing this system, meaning that even the poor undocumented, and oppressed migrant workers child IS getting an education, or what passes for one in this nation.
OK so they get school - which means their treated as well as a poor Cuban - but can they continue to university ?
 
Written By: Blewyn
URL: http://blewog.blogspot.com
What about the genuinely poor Americans (those who have nothing). THAT’s who I’m talking about, not the working class. Working and paying rent/mortgage does not mean poor, I mean poor people that have nothing. (slight UK-US English difference maybe). A poor person in Cuba has healthcare, a roof, food and every child gets educated, no ?
The truly impoverished in America are invisible to those who don’t want to see.

The approach taken by those who say America’s poor have it good comes from research like this from the Heritage Foundation. Clearly if you take 35 million as the number of poor (just over 10% of the population) and do aggregate statistics, it appears our poor have it good. But if one changes focus to, say the 10 to 15 million who are extremely poor, the situation looks different. This look at the severely poor is an example.

Even the mainstream media are noticing growing poverty problems in the US.

Nonetheless, I think comparing America’s poor to Cuba’s poor doesn’t really work. Cuba doesn’t have a lot of resources, is embargoed by the US, and overall even though a poor person may have health care and shelter, they face a myriad of problems that the vast majority of Americans do not. The severely poor in the US are in many cases worse off than in Cuba, but it’s like comparing apples to oranges. I’d compare poverty in the US to poverty in European countries. Rarely in Europe do you find the kind of destitution you find in parts of the US (especially in western Europe). The US has a much bigger gap between the rich and the poor, and even the rich and the middle class than Europe. The US also has higher aggregate GDP. Europe’s avoided the huge gaps in distribution of wealth at a cost in terms of total aggregate GDP. Is it worth it? Quality of life indicators suggest it may well be, but ultimately that is a moral/ethical quesiton.
 
Written By: Scott Erb
URL: http://faculty.umf.maine.edu/~erb/blog.htm
Nobody’s stopping you from donating all your income to the poor, Scott.

 
Written By: Bithead
URL: http://bitsblog.florack.us
How would that help establish a more equitable system of wealth distribution and raise general living standards in the US Bithead ?
 
Written By: Blewyn
URL: http://blewog.blogspot.com

 
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