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Hate Decrying hate ....
Posted by: McQ on Tuesday, May 15, 2007

When you read something like this, it really makes you want to engage the author in a meaningful discussion on the issues, doesn't it?
I know that supporters of the currently ruling coalition of crooks, warmongers, torturers, incompetents, and theocrats are deeply, deeply hurt when they and their pet politicians are compared to Nazis. But could someone suggest to them — politely, of course — that it would help if they stopped borrowing Nazi iconography and phraseology?
Ironically the name and tag line on the blog are: "The Reality-Based Community: Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts".

Well, except for him, of course.
 
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You know, I’m sure the Nazis drew pictures of the moon, the sun, the earth, and a bunch of other things that conservatives use in political cartoons. So, yeah, the conservatives are using Nazi icons.

That blog entry was steeped in so many layers of stupidity that I’m at a loss for words to describe it all. I feel like Dante must have felt after seeing all 9 levels of Hell.
 
Written By: steverino
URL: http://steverino.journalspace.com/
Hitler was a man, Bush was a man. Hitler had hair, Bush has hair. Hilter had a dog, Bush has a dog. Can it be any more clear?

Never mind that 80% of liberal dogma — from gun control, to nationalized health care, to gaia-worship — is from the National Socialist agenda...
 
Written By: Tex
URL: http://
Never mind that 80% of liberal dogma — from gun control, to nationalized health care, to gaia-worship — is from the National Socialist agenda...

Hey don’t forget, race based preferences and race based hate crimes, also straight from the Nazis.
 
Written By: kyleN
URL: http://impudent.blognation.us/blog
Hey don’t forget, race based preferences and race based hate crimes, also straight from the Nazis.
Well to be fair, Hitler did kill and torture millions of non-Aryan/non-Protestant. Today’s left just cheer when white male Protestant’s die. The irony is however, the non-BDS-sufferers openly admit the real distinctions between Hitler and their opponents, whereas BDS-sufferers do not.
 
Written By: bains
URL: http://
I know that supporters of the currently ruling coalition of crooks, warmongers, torturers, incompetents, and theocrats are deeply, deeply hurt when they and their pet politicians are compared to Nazis.
This is a case of what Psychiatrist and Political Commentator Charles Krauthammer calls "Bush Displacement Syndrome" it raging through the leftwingnuts like the plague
 
Written By: James E. Fish
URL: http://faroutfishfiles.blogspot.com/
Reading the link, McQ, I note this gem in an update:
My point was that if the New Righties can’t make their case without looking and sounding like Nazis, it’s not unfair to compare them to Nazis...
while noting that Kevin Drum aptly points out the far more common usage of a knife in the back.
But look: the phrase "stab in the back" is a common idiom. Everyone reading this has probably used it dozens of times in their lives without once thinking about its German roots.
Yet the author pretends not to be concerned about his narrative, states,
[t]hat’s not language policing; it’s just snark.,
The author has succumbed to identity politics. He doesn’t give a good hoot what the original artist intended, he sees Nazi, and because he has anointed himself the final arbiter on all matters Hitler=GOP, his voice is the only one of reason.
 
Written By: bains
URL: http://
I don’t care if they hate Bush. I don’t care if they want to end the war in Iraq. They can believe and vote however they wish. But comparing a political cartoon showing a soldier literally stabbed in the back by Congress to Nazi propaganda (which shows someone stabbed in the neck, not the back), and claiming that conservatives thus look and sound like Nazis is well beyond reason. No intelligent person could argue such a position.
 
Written By: steverino
URL: http://steverino.journalspace.com/
The author has succumbed to identity politics.
Actually a subset of identity politics which Jeff Goldstein labels intentionalism where the intent of the originator is supplanted by what the reader/listener/watcher feels the author intended. Much shorter, it’s the tendency to try and attribute nefarious meaning to others statements that coincide with ones own bigotry prejudices.
 
Written By: bains
URL: http://
Are you really going to argue that the Bushies are not crooks, warmongers, torturers, incompetents, and theocrats?
 
Written By: Retief
URL: http://
The left side of the blogosphere began pushing the "stabbed in the back" = Nazis back in 2005 and it started to blossom in the summer of 2006. It’s lame, but it’s very interesting that so many of them have latched onto it. It’s like their "Culture of Corruption" meme that they all started to push at the same time.

BTW, here’s a nice Nazi poster for the Democrats:
Health, child protection, fighting poverty, aiding travellers, community, helping mothers: These are the tasks of the National Socialist People’s Charity. Become a member!
Oh, yeah...Kos is also a Nazi:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/2/8/114155/8768
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/1/16/154736/864
 
Written By: JWG
URL: http://
I just realized the biggest flaw in this clowns supposition. Click the link, and note the date of the supposed "Nazi" propaganda.
 
Written By: bains
URL: http://
I realized that, too, bains. Do you think he’s engaging in stereotyping post-WW1 Germans? :)
 
Written By: steverino
URL: http://steverino.journalspace.com/
No, steverino. He either knows his history and doesn’t care, doesn’t know his history and doesn’t care, or knows his readership do not know their history and do not care. Much like Greenwald, this author anticipates his readers will not follow links, will not follow history, but most importantly will follow narrative.
 
Written By: bains
URL: http://
apologies ’rino... real snark missed.
 
Written By: bains
URL: http://
Are you really going to argue that the Bushies are not crooks, warmongers, torturers, incompetents, and theocrats?
I don’t argue negative Retief, if you’d like to produce some EVIDENCE, not simple BDS-inspired ASSERTIONS, by all means set out to make your case.
 
Written By: Joe
URL: http://
note the date of the supposed "Nazi" propaganda
It’s an accurate description. The Nazi party began shortly after WWI, and Hitler later used his own military service along with the propagandized Dolchstosslegende to rally support.
 
Written By: JWG
URL: http://
crook: Scooter Libby.
warmonger: Don Rumsfeld
torturer: John Yoo
incompetent: Doug Feith
theocrat: GW "Jesus is my favorite philosopher" Bush

and like the man said, if you don’t want to have Nazi allusions drawn, don’t use Nazi iconography.

or shall we revisit Congress’s refusal to send emergency funding to South Vietnam in 1972? that’s usually good for several rounds of stab-in-the-back accusations.

what ever happened to the will of the people? One reason Congress’s approval ratings are dropping is its failure to do more to stop the war.
 
Written By: Francis
URL: http://
Francis, you’ll have to do better than that. Bush isn’t a theocrat; at best you can say he’s a religious man in a position of power. But he’s not governing the nation as a theocrat would.

At least we’re not treated to images of him carrying his well-worn Bible to church on all the Sunday morning news shows every time he’s in a political contraversy.
 
Written By: steverino
URL: http://steverino.journalspace.com/
what ever happened to the will of the people?
The Founding Fathers rejected democracy in favor of a republic because they feared rule by the mob. They were right. Look at the French revolution and the terror that followed it. We elect representatives who are supposed to use their judgement to do what is best for the country. We should have nothing but disdain for the politician who puts his finger in the air to see how the political winds are blowing. That’s not their job. If you don’t like their decisions, vote for someone else next election.
 
Written By: James E. Fish
URL: http://faroutfishfiles.blogspot.com/
It’s an accurate description. The Nazi party began shortly after WWI, and Hitler later used his own military service along with the propagandized Dolchstosslegende to rally support
The Nazi Party was founded in 1920, however Hitler did not achieve power until 1933. In 1923 the Nazi’s staged the beer hall putsch in Munich. Hitler was imprisoned and the party declined in power. The party was virtually unknown outside Munich at the time. In 1924, Nazi’s were a fledgling party trying to get recognition. The poster says "Munchen" on it. That may be Munich, other than that I see no evidence the poster was printed by the Nazi’s. There were a number of right wing parties that claimed Germany was slabbed in the back, usually by Jews, but politicians and others were also blamed. If anybody reads German, examine the writing on the poster. It may indicate what political party is was promoting. I can’t tell.
 
Written By: James E. Fish
URL: http://faroutfishfiles.blogspot.com/
Munchen is just over a mile from Munich, so the poster may be of Nazi origion.
 
Written By: James E. Fish
URL: http://faroutfishfiles.blogspot.com/
In 1924, Nazi’s were a fledgling party trying to get recognition.
True. And I don’t know whether the poster with the soldier and the knife are Nazi or not. I’m just pointing out that the date of the poster doesn’t rule it out.

Here’s an interesting graph showing the build up of political power:
http://www.flholocaustmuseum.org/history_wing/assets/room2/Wiemar_political_parties.jpg
Hitler did not achieve power until 1933
He did not acheive power over all of Germany until 1933. However, he was powerful within the Nazi party almost from its beginnings. He was only jailed during the year of 1924.

I think it is reasonable to guess that the particular Dolchstosslegende poster is not a Nazi product, but it can’t be ruled out just on the date alone. That was my point.
 
Written By: JWG
URL: http://
JWG You are missing (ignoring?) intent. Without a Hitler, it’s hard to argue the Nazi party would have achieved such notoriety. While technically there existed a Nazi party in 1923, it was not Hitler’s Nazi party, and thus the comparison the blogger wants to make has no basis.
 
Written By: bains
URL: http://
While technically there existed a Nazi party in 1923, it was not Hitler’s Nazi party
Yes it was. Hitler was the party chairman in the summer of 1921.
 
Written By: JWG
URL: http://
I agree with JWG:
Hitler became party chairman on 28 July 1921.
The real questions are a) is that characterization really a Nazi one or, as some have pointed out, one which is used universally and b) whether the second image from IBD relates to the universal use or the Nazi use.

It seems rather obvious to me that it is the former and that this yahoo is really stretching a point to try to make it fit in order to engage in the name-calling he did.
 
Written By: McQ
URL: http://www.qando.net/blog
I agree that it is beyond ridiculous to relate back-stabbing imagery to Nazism. I was bored last night and started compiling a list of famous people on the left who have used the imagery, but decided it was pointless to try to convince people like Francis.

The left is in a frenzy to deflect their lack of support for the military and no logic will stop it.
 
Written By: JWG
URL: http://
crook: Scooter Libby
What did he steal? I think you meant Sandy Burger.
warmonger: Don Rumsfeld
Congress overwhelmingly approved the war. The SecDef can’t unilaterally start a war.
torturer: John Yoo
Who has he tortured?
incompetent: Doug Feith
Never heard of him, but I’ll take your word for it. How’s that Strong. Tough. Smart. Democratic Congress working out for you? Why don’t you name an administration that didn’t have a number of imcompetents in it? Face it, incompetency is a hallmark of government, especially big government.

Somebody else ably dealt with your moronic theocrat comment.
 
Written By: Jordan
URL: http://
Francis’s list is good but because I see a few quibbles:

Crook: These are just the convicted Bush adminstration officials: Scooter Libby, Lester Crawford, Brian J. Doyle, Claude A. Allen, John T. Korsmo.

Warmonger: (While the term may be pejorative, all it means is a person who advocates or attempts to stir up war; the administration is and was full of such advocates.) Cheney, Wolfowitz, Feith, and Dubya himself.

Torturer: John Yoo provided the legal reasoning to ignore the Geneva Conventions. Donald Rumsfeld ordered the interogation techniques from Gitmo be moved to Afghanistan and Iraq, and that interogators "take the gloves off". Any number of people in the administration continue to defend rendition, and waterboarding.

Incompetent: Michael Brown, Harriet Miers, Donald Rumsfeld, Doug Feith, Condoleeza Rice, etc. etc. etc.

Theocrats: Monica Goodling for one.
 
Written By: Retief
URL: http://
Sure the "Stab in the Back" isn’t a purely Nazi image but the Nazis were certainly the most eager purveyors of the myth and it was one of their most potent attacks on political enemies. Just as it is for the GOP today.
 
Written By: Retief
URL: http://
Crook: Bill Clinton, same crime as Libby; Berger vastly worse
Warmonger: Clinton, Kerry and Tenet all argued for necessary miltary action to destroy Iraq’s WMD.
Torturer: KLA, open their victims graves and you’ll see much worse than waterboarding
Incompetent: Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid
Theocrat: Al "Gaia" Gore, has proposed more faith based legislation than anyone

By Francis’ and Retief’s argument the Democrats are not only Nazis, but much more committed to it.
 
Written By: Ted
URL: http://
and it was one of their most potent attacks on political enemies. Just as it is for the GOP today
Hey, genius...the Nazis also effectively used their concern for health care, child welfare, and poverty against their political enemies.

I guess we’d have to consider you a Nazi, except for the using it "effectively" part.
 
Written By: JWG
URL: http://
Ted, Tu quoque is not an argument.

JWG, The Nazis made the myth that the German military was betrayed by the politicians and jews on the home front, who stabbed them in the back in 1918 when they were on the verge of victory, one of their majors points of appeal. Are you really disputing that?

As for any similarity between that Dolchstoss im Rücken myth and current contentions from some quarters that Democrats desire to end the war is "snatching defeat from the jaws of victory" and undercutting our troops is left as an exercise for the reader.
 
Written By: Retief
URL: http://
JWG, The Nazis made the myth...Are you really disputing that?
Yes, I will dispute that the Nazis "made the myth."
 
Written By: JWG
URL: http://
sorry for the confusing phrasology. Perhaps this will be more clear: The Nazis made one of their majors points of appeal the myth that the German military was betrayed by the politicians and jews on the home front, who stabbed them in the back in 1918 when they were on the verge of victory. Are you really disputing that?

And since you’ve given me teh opportunity, I will correct the other part as well:

As for any similarity between that Dolchstoss im Rücken myth and current contentions from some quarters that Democrats desire to end the war is "snatching defeat from the jaws of victory" and undercutting our troops, that is left as an exercise for the reader.
 
Written By: Retief
URL: http://
Retief;
I never claimed the Republicans were not guilty of acting similar to the Nazis, so Tu qouque doesn’t apply. But for your initial list argument remain valid, then you must acknowledge that the Democrats also act like Nazis.
 
Written By: Ted
URL: http://
Are you really disputing that?
No...you’ll find I said the same thing earlier in the comments before you did.

However, I also pointed out their use of other icons to also rally support. Therefore, those who use those similar icons to rally support must also be compared to Nazis.
 
Written By: JWG
URL: http://
I hate these kind of quibbles. Yes JWG, Hitler was active in 1921 in the Nazi party. BUT those who actually ruled Germany wouldnt fall for another 13 years. In 1923, when the illustration was produced, the Weimar Republic ruled, not the Nazis. I am merely pointing out that the Nazi party, and in fact, Nazi Germany of noteriety, that the linked blogger is trying to associate with a particular cartoonist of today, did not exist at that time. Therefore, the comparison he wishes you to agree with has no basis in fact.
 
Written By: bains
URL: http://
Nazi Germany of noteriety...did not exist at that time.
According to this logic, anything produced by the Nazi party prior to 1933 is not Nazi-enough? What about Mein Kampf (written in 1924 and published in 1925)? If I make arguments similar to those made in that book then I guess I can’t really be compared to a Nazi according to your point.
 
Written By: JWG
URL: http://

 
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