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Ah, assimilation - a wonderful thing
Posted by: McQ on Monday, June 04, 2007

This must have been fun:
More than 100 Muslim teen girls let their hair down Saturday night. Both literally and figuratively. Muslim girls who wear the headscarf in public slid them off as they walked into the first Minnesota Muslim prom exclusively for girls and women. With no men there, they didn't have to cover up and were free to let loose and dance.

[...]

The event was called PROM, an acronym which stands for Party foR Only Muslimahs, or Muslim girls, and was held in accordance with Islamic culture and values. Many Muslim girls don't go to their high school prom for cultural reasons: They aren't allowed to dance with the opposite sex, and prom dresses can be too revealing for some Muslim girls to wear in public. As an alternative, the event, held at the University of Minnesota's Coffman Memorial Union, allowed participants to dance, wear what they wanted and not feel like they missed out on a staple of the high school experience.
Look we accommodate Christian sects such as the Amish and Mennonites as well. Part of the good old culturally tolerant US. But both of those sects are and remain extremely small. In your opinion, is this sort of an event something which will be overcome in time by the pressure of the dominant culture in the US? Or because this is a large and growing religion which is just now beginning to put down deeper roots in the US, will this sort of activity become more common?

And, in your opinion, if it does become more common will that have a positive or negative effect on our culture? I've always been of the opinion that the culture here pretty well absorbs other cultures eventually (while keeping the best attributes of the culture it absorbs). I can't help but thinking that this culture may be the exception.
 
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In your opinion, is this sort of an event something which will be overcome in time by the pressure of the dominant culture in the US?


Unless we pull a Britain and allow the Muslin traditionalists among the community to enforce it via honor killings and the rest of that crap, yes. But it will take time. Even Allah wouldn’t be able to resist text messaging and wifi gaming!
 
Written By: shark
URL: http://
I agree that there is something different about Islam. They are the most frightened religion in the modern world. But they are also deeply infected with our values. The women want to be American women but behind closed doors. It always struck me as somewhat sick that Victoria’s Secret sells tons of lingerie to Saudi Women who have no Civil Rights except to look sexy the way women in the west do, but only for their husbands.

Yesterday it was almost 90 degrees here in Buffalo and my wife and I passed several Moslem girls in their teens dressed in big heavy scarves and long clothes. There were no boys anywhere. They looked absurd. What do you say about a religion that makes the Amish look reasonable?

The trouble will come when they want all their own accommodations, including in our laws. I think any person who is honest and sees what Islam is wherever it is practiced knows it is a religion that appeals to believers because of its authority and Islam functions best for believers when the belief is enforced by law and custom. If we in the west don’t alter this vital part of Islam, they will try to change us by whatever means they have.


 
Written By: tomjbuffalo
URL: http://
As the Muslim community grows these things will become more common. As long as it remains in the Muslim community it will not be a treat to others, only a determent to Muslims. The problem is the insistence that non-Muslims follow Muslim panties. So far the history of Multi-culturalism has been apartheid enforced by the minorities who eschew the idea of a ‘melting pot.’ Muslims seem to be following that model, a model that bodes ill for The United States.
 
Written By: James E. Fish
URL: http://faroutfishfiles.blogspot.com/
Who are the "xenophobic" ones again?
 
Written By: jpm100
URL: http://
I don’t think Muslims will be any more tolerant than the anti-smoking nazis who insist that it be illegal for anyone to smoke within 100 yards of them, lest they be discomfited. There is already a case(Florida?) of a Muslim woman insisting that she be allowed to wear a veil in her driver’s license photo. Then there are the famous flying Imams. Of course even the Amish protested being required to put reflectors on their horse drawn vehicles. Too garish. But at least the Amish do not insist that noone else use reflectors. It is rather amusing that some of the same people who preach about the dangers of the totalitarian moralistic Christian religious right think we should show tolerance and accomodate the wishes of other groups who are at least as dangerous.
 
Written By: timactual
URL: http://
Neo-neocon offers some insight into the idiocy of the AP about muslims and ends with a chuckle-worthy line.
 
Written By: Robert Fulton
URL: http://
Firstly, I have to question if the accommodations are the same as the Mennonites or the Amish (not inclined to register to read the main article).

Is this muslim event sponsored under the same terms as those Christian sects?
Are they both public school sponsored or affiliated? Or are the done with private initiative?
If they are public school sponsored or affiliated, are the Amish or Mennonites a majority of voters or have approval of the majority of voters in their districts?

Secondly, there’s a big the difference. The Amish or Mennonites didn’t immigrate here they were caught here when the country was formed.

So no, no public money should be spent on this type of accommodation for Muslims. When the Amish and Mennonites start blowing up buildings, the same goes from them.

It just take a few to ruin it for the rest.
 
Written By: jpm100
URL: http://
I am more critical of radical Islam than most. I read Robert Spencer’s Jihad Watch and Dhimmi Watch daily as well as The Religion of Peace website and others. I know about the taxi drivers in Minneapolis and the workers at Target that refuse to ring up pork products. The installation of wudu’s in community colleges and George Mason University. The female genital mutilation that occurred in Atlanta.
Yet, when I read this story in the newspaper I felt hopeful. In the newspaper the article was accompanied by a photo of two girls in jeans and tee-shirts.
I believe that if reformation or moderation is to occur in Islam that women are the greatest hope. Women like Ayaan Ali and Wafa Sultan.
So, to your question of whether or not our culture will absorb the Islamic culture/religion I really don’t know. But we must never give up on our rule of law which certainly includes separation of church and state. I’m not Jewish and I don’t fully understand their reasons for their adamant enforcement of the separation of church and state I believe it is their understanding that it can rapidly turn on them. That is why I am so wary of Christians trying to insert ID or prayer into public schools. It opens the doors to Shari’a.
Precedent is so important. Just look at this and read this and tell me what it portends for American culture and absorbing of different cultures and what it predicts for the Islamists future attempts at using the courts or legislative process to implement Shari’a law, initially in enclaves.
 
Written By: tom scott
URL: http://
This sounds a lot less creepy, or worrisome, than one of those Purity Balls.
 
Written By: Retief
URL: http://
The problem is the insistence that non-Muslims follow Muslim panties.
cough I don’t think that would be the problem on several levels.
 
Written By: Mark A. Flacy
URL: http://
I dunno... I know of several muslim women who’s panties I would eagerly follow...

...

I didn’t actually just say that. You imagined it. Move along, citizen...
 
Written By: Scott Jacobs
URL: http://
There is a certain level, beyond which such things become a minus. It is a level that the Mennonites the Amish and so on by their nature could not possibly achieve. To say nothing of their numbers or lack of them.

And therein lies the problem. There are no extremist Mennonites menacing large numbers of people with acts of war. Similarly, the AMA issue are not likely to use nuclear weapons against us in order to banish our way of life whilst we tolerate them.


In short, Bruce, we tolerate such sects because they are not a threat to our society, to our culture, two were way of life, to our country. (Note the order I put those in )


Were that the same could be said for Islam. But it is not so, whatever the Democrats such as Edwards might say.
 
Written By: Bithead
URL: http://bitsblog.florack.us
This sounds a lot less creepy, or worrisome, than one of those Purity Balls.
LOL!

It is a purity ball.
 
Written By: McQ
URL: http://www.qando.net/blog
Keep in mind that the rule for Muslims to abstain from eating pork or drinking alcohol is contained within a passage of the Koran that also mandates amputation of the hand as punishment for thievery. How far will Muslim law be tolerated in the west? Polygamy appears to be making inroads in Europe, not to mention censorship of blasphemy.

It took the expulsion from Judea and the burning of the Temple for the Jews to re-evaluate the meaning of their covenant and their interpretation of archaine Mosaic laws. It took 2 nuclear bombs for Japaneese Shintos to stop worshipping the Emperor as a warrior-god. Of course we cannot pursue a similar course of action today (barring the return of the Mahdi and arrival of the Qiamat), Therefore I don’t expect things to change much for the better in terms of fundamentalist Islamic beliefs and practices, generally.

It seems that our leaders want to play the "lets be accomidating to them so they don’t hate us - because negatively judging the culture of exotic brown people reminds us of the sins of our racist colonial past" game. I expect its gonna get a whole lot worse in the coming decades with the demographic shift in Europe.
 
Written By: Jimmy the Dhimmi
URL: http://www.warning1938alert.ytmnd.com
I personally don’t see the point of this "Prom".

How will they loose their virginity on prom night to a guy they will be trying to forget next year at a "girls only" prom?

Imagine this conversation:
"mother, I feel so left out. All my infidel girlfreinds are getting pregnant this year. You’re just not being fair."

This is so untraditional.
 
Written By: roci
URL: http://rociburden.blogspot.com
Instapundit just had a link to a NY Sun article that CAIR—among others-had been named unindicted co-conspirators in a trial to begin in Texas. I went to the link but was more intrigued by this link in a sidebar.
The Real Arab School Fear.
Read the Sun’s coverage of plans to open an Arabic-language public school in Brooklyn.
That’s right. An Arabic language public school. Guess we’ll have to wait for assimilation.
 
Written By: tom scott
URL: http://
" The Amish or Mennonites didn’t immigrate here they were caught here when the country was formed."

They are native Amerricans? Is their tribe recognized by the US gov’t.?


"That is why I am so wary of Christians trying to insert ID or prayer into public schools."

You are a couple of centuries too late with that particular worry. Up until relatively recently most schools opened classes with a Bible verse and a Christian prayer. Of course those terrifying "Blue Laws" did make it illegal, in some states, to buy certain items or do certain things on Sunday. Much like Sharia and its amputations for theft, etc.
 
Written By: timactual
URL: http://
I’d rather see Muslim girls having their own prom than see Muslim activists insisting all the girls at the regular prom cover up with headscarves, modest dresses, or burkhas. It’s a step in the right direction, toward "if you want to live a different way in a larger community that doesn’t share your values, solve your own damn problems instead of insisting that everyone else solve your problems."
 
Written By: Wacky Hermit
URL: http://organicbabyfarm.blogspot.com
I live in a place that is both one of the safest spots in America, yet also one of the least diverse. The politically incorrect fact is that cultural homogeniety makes it easier to have common bonds and values to provide volulntaristic stability and a strong sense of community. Yet, lest I come off as a xenophobe, the mixing of different cultural groups is a political reality — demographic and cultural changes are inevitable in an era of globalization.

Herein the American experience is important. We define identity not in ethnic terms, but in terms of a commitment to particular ideals and values. We may disagree intensely on the meaning of these values in context, but we share core beliefs — as put in the Constitution and Declaration of Independence. Moreover, we have a way to accomodate different cultural perspectives: focus on individual identities vs. collective identities. So if a Muslim friend wants to pray five times a day facing Mecca or fast during Ramadan, I try to support that as a sense of individual respect, especially since Ramadan must be a lot harder when you’re not in a community.

The difficulty Islam has is that it is a very community-oriented religion, making it difficult to understand the idea that politics is a separate realm and individual respect is for each person, without expecting others behave as ones’ own religion teaches. Most American Muslims accept that, learning our style of thinking. In Europe, where ethnic identity remains paramount, it’s harder to develop that individualist perspective and connect it to the faith (and Islam has inherent in its teachings a respect for the individual and individual choice — but that’s not often emphasized by conservative and fundamentalist Muslims). So the key: focus on individual rather than collective identity.

We’re going through an era of cultural mixing — that ultimately changes both the native culture and the newcomers entering the cultural. Individual respect will allow both to change without harm. In fact, our ability to handle new cultures contributes to our dynamism as a culture.
 
Written By: Scott Erb
URL: http://faculty.umf.maine.edu/~erb/blog.htm
my opinion is that we stop all Muslim immigration immediately, but then again I am pretty much for shutting ALL immigration to trickle of about 250,000 a year, ALL certified, checked, double checked, and searched for cooties.
 
Written By: kyleN
URL: http://impudent.blognation.us/blog
100 years ago Christian women would be arrested for showing their ankles at some beaches in the US. I think the strictest Muslim taboos will erode and what remains will be the positive aspects. It will just take decades or more.

Muslim girls want to have a PROM of their own? Whatever. So long as they don’t force non-Muslims to cancel the regular prom I don’t see how it matters.
 
Written By: abwtf
URL: http://abw.mee.nu
Time will tell, won’t it. I’m leaning towards assimilation, eventually.
You want to worry about something, worry about Spanish language bill boards and the implication of all the products on the shelves being marked in two languages. When 12 million muslims wander over the border and Congress is discussing amnesty for them, I’ll worry about a Muslim girl’s prom.
I like to think we’ll ’corrupt’ them for the better.

They’re not the first religion we have here that establishes special rules for their people but lives geographically amongst the mainstream (unlike the Amish).
Might I suggest Hasidic Jews as an example?

http://news.ufl.edu/2006/11/27/hasidic-jews/

Yes, yes, I know, there’s only about 200,000 of them nationwide and, they don’t blow people up. But, then again, how many of these muslim girls (here in the U.S.) have blown anyone up lately?

Just askin.



 
Written By: looker
URL: http://
Long as we treat them fairly and every now and again firebomb and bulldoze one of their enclaves, I’m for it.
 
Written By: The Gonzman
URL: http://
Let’s just make sure we don’t end up like Malaysia where you have freedom of religion as long as your local Sharia court agrees first...

p.s. I guess turning Mexican is looking better and better - at least we’d get to keep the cerveza, carnitas, and the girls.
 
Written By: Harun
URL: http://
"Yes, yes, I know, there’s only about 200,000 of them nationwide and, they don’t blow people up."

Only because they don’t need to. As everyone knows, they already control the country through their financial manipulation and international conspiracy, and blowing people up would only cost them money and draw unwanted attention to themselves. But deep down inside, they really, really want to blow people up. That’s why they did the Trade Center-they just couldn’t control themselves.
 
Written By: timactual
URL: http://
What harm comes from spanish billboards or things printed in two languages? In any event demographic change has happened throughout history, and cultures constantly adapt. The important thing is to keep the focus on ideals of freedom, limited government, both of which by necessity mean distrust of militarism and inteventionist foreign policies.
 
Written By: Scott Erb
URL: http://faculty.umf.maine.edu/~erb/blog.htm
"What harm comes from Spanish billboards or things printed in two languages?"

They increase global warming, you moron, what else?

Dude, it’s not a good idea to go from a single-language country to a dual-language country. Look how much fun Canada is having with Quebec.

By posting everything in two languages, those who don’t speak or read English lose out on the opportunity to learn English. Language acquisition is so hard that if you have the option to not do it, you won’t.

Remember back in 1975 when Ford decided that the US would go metric? All of the road signs and everything was printed in both units of measure. Did that facilitate the shift? Hardly. We just ignored the kph junk and stuck with good old mph.

Those who can’t speak English are shut out from the well-paying jobs. If you can’t speak English, you’ll spend the rest of your life busing tables and mowing lawns. Charity without wisdom equals ENABLING. And the enabler is guilty of keeping the target of their enabling dependent on them.

That’s a twisted, twisted way to be "nice" to someone.
 
Written By: dicentra
URL: http://dicentrasgarden.blogspot.com
Erb, the problem with Islam is that it’s a religion that spawned a government. If Islam could follow the example of both Judaism and Christianity and actually separate church and state, it wouldn’t be nearly the problem it is.
 
Written By: SDN
URL: http://
"What harm comes from spanish billboards or things printed in two languages?"

It isn’t just two languages.


" In any event demographic change has happened throughout history, and cultures constantly adapt."

A great consolation, I am sure, to the Canaanites, Celts, Picts, etc. And how could I forget the Palestinians?
 
Written By: timactual
URL: http://

 
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