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In Gaza, it looks like the radicals will win
Posted by: McQ on Thursday, June 14, 2007

Hamas is very close to taking control of the Gaza strip:
Hamas fighters overran Fatah-allied Preventive Security headquarters in Gaza City on Thursday, a key target in their battle to control the entire Gaza Strip, witnesses and a security agency official said.
The Security HQ, of course, provided a mother-lode of weapons and explosives for Hamas with which to press their attacks.

Meanwhile Fatah dithers and fights among themselves:
Earlier, Fatah operatives called on Abbas to order a move from defense to offense, "even at the price of thousands of dead Palestinians," to avoid losing the Gaza Strip to Hamas.

The call to Abbas Thursday morning came after Fatah officials urged Abbas to resign Wednesday night. Fatah members have grown increasingly angry at what they termed Abbas's failure to order a strong counter-attack to Hamas and a lack of clear-cut orders.
Thousands of dead Palestinians are not important at all ... unless Israel kills them. The irony of this situation is the fact that many Palestinians are publicly calling for a return of the Israeli occupation in order to again live in peace.

Naturally when you seem to be winning, discussing an end to the fighting isn't something you're particularly interested in, and that is, of course, true of Hamas:
"There will be no dialogue with Fatah, only the sword and the rifle," Nezar Rayyan, a top Hamas leader, told Hamas radio on Thursday.

"This is a battle between Muslims and non-believers, and God willing, we will lead the Friday prayer in the president's office, and transform the [Fatah-controlled] security complex into a big mosque."
And yes, if you're wondering, Hamas is a radical Islamist group. You can imagine the result of them winning complete control in Gaza.

Fatah, otoh, seems to be about to abandon the place even with its leaders screaming for it to go on the offensive:
Meanwhile, hundreds of Fatah men asked Israel to help them flee the Gaza Strip through Gaza seaport, one of the last locations in the Strip still held by Fatah Thursday morning, for fear they would be executed by Hamas gunmen if they remained in Gaza.

According to Israel Radio, Egypt was busy preparing plans to absorb thousands of Palestinians attempting to flee the clashes in Gaza.
You can imagine what will come out of any camps Egypt sets up for fleeing Palestinians, especially if they're predominantly Fatah sympathizers. Can you say "insurgency" and continued "civil war"?

Meanwhile in Israel:
Israeli sources were quoted as saying that following the developments in the strip, Israel was now viewing the Gaza Strip as a "separate enemy state."
As it breaks down, you'll have Fatah on the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza, both warring on each other, and, of course, Israel. However, a divided house is a weaker house andd that is to Israel's ultimate advantage. And somewhere in the mix, most likely in Gaza, al Qaeda will slink in to attempt to exploit the situation to their advantage.

All in all, not a pretty picture.
 
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Well, I didn’t think I’d find anything about the horrors in Gaza that would make me laugh today, but, I confess, this headline did. It’s a bit like observing that in the next US election, it looks like the politicians will win. However much more vicious Hamas may seem to us at the moment, the party of Arafat hasn’t ever really been a sedate and trustworthy steward of Palestinian statesmanship.

Palestinian statesmanship. Whoa. Is that smoke coming out of this machine here? Something seems... not to be computing or something...

Seriously, my prayers to my Infidel God go out for the people in Gaza today.
 
Written By: Linda Morgan
URL: http://
Via the Telegraph captures the moment perfectly:

Among yesterday’s dead was a 14-year-old boy and three women, all killed in a Hamas attack on a Fatah security officer’s home.

"They’re firing at us, firing RPGs, firing mortars. We’re not Jews," the brother of Jamal Abu Jediyan, a Fatah commander, pleaded during a live telephone conversation with a Palestinian radio station.

Minutes later both men were dragged into the streets and riddled with bullets.


Oh the irony.
 
Written By: ChrisB
URL: http://
Gotta add this as well. With respect to
Hamas is a radical Islamist group. You can imagine the result of them winning complete control in Gaza.
We all recall of course that Hamas trounced — just smashed — Fatah in the parliamentary elections in January 2006. They pretty much won complete control back then. Since then, it’s just been a matter of wresting it away from a horror-struck Fatah and the uncomprehending world powers that have long propped up as a "peace partner" their preferred crew of cutthroats.
 
Written By: Linda Morgan
URL: http://
Thousands of dead Palestinians are not important at all ... unless Israel kills them.
Small correction: Thousands of dead Palestinians are not important at all ... unless Israel kills one of them. Because then Israel is responsible for all of the deaths.

Israel is wise to consider Gaza as a separate enemy state, and just stay out of things while Fatah and Hamas kill each other for the time being.
 
Written By: steverino
URL: http://steverino.journalspace.com/
Palestinian Independence seems to prove the axiom,"Be careful what you wish for, you may get it."
 
Written By: Jay Evans
URL: http://
The problem is, as usual, Israel and the United States. The israelis have radicalized and marginalized the Palestinian people for so long, locking them up in this tiny, deprived enclave that the end result is this bloodletting. Had the US acted in it’s and the Palestinians own best interest it would ahve forced Israel to change policy LONG before now.

The best that can be realistically hoped for is a dialogue with Syria, Egypt and other neighbor states and the intervention of the UN.

I would like to report that the black flies are not that bad, today, in Maine and that the Summer Intersession is going well. There is a wonderful class being offerd, "The Hermaneutics of Trans-national Crypto-Fascism: Olmert and Bush as Case Studies".
 
Written By: Joe
URL: http://
I would like to report that the black flies are not that bad, today, in Maine and that the Summer Intersession is going well. There is a wonderful class being offerd, "The Hermaneutics of Trans-national Crypto-Fascism: Olmert and Bush as Case Studies".
Dare I ask who the professor is?
 
Written By: SShiell
URL: http://
Oh the irony.
Chris B, you are a heartless human being. While Hamas and other radical Palestinian groups are unqestionably guilty of acting in a completely selfish and boneheaded manner, the Israelis aren’t blameless either. If it wasn’t for their ’screw you’ approach to relations with Palestine, radical groups like Hamas would not enjoy much of the support that they have now. If they and other western nations didn’t opt for the ’lets just starve them to death’ solution for dealing with a Hamas controlled government, this new spate of violence would not have occured. Of course, this is probably what the Israelis wanted in the first place. Not that I blame them, but it just means that they’re no better than groups like Hamas.
 
Written By: Jon
URL: http://
Of course, this is probably what the Israelis wanted in the first place. Not that I blame them, but it just means that they’re no better than groups like Hamas.

Joe: I think Jon is going to put you out of business. Not because Jon is better at the parody - in fact I don’t think Jon is doing a parody schtick at all. Jon is going to put you out of business because Jon is too far out there for successful parody. Impossible to add hyperbole to the hyperbolic as such.
 
Written By: Jody
URL: http://
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,282195,00.html

They just closed shop.
 
Written By: markm
URL: http://
Of course, this is probably what the Israelis wanted in the first place. Not that I blame them, but it just means that they’re no better than groups like Hamas.
Joe: I think Jon is going to put you out of business. Not because Jon is better at the parody - in fact I don’t think Jon is doing a parody shtick at all. Jon is going to put you out of business because Jon is too far out there for successful parody. Impossible to add hyperbole to the hyperbolic as such.

True at one level, BUT I have a Plan "B".... I have informed several Hamas folks that "Jon" is a Mossad Agent Provocateur posting to make them look bad and they are going to send him a "package." If a man can not be out parodied at least he can be terminated.


 
Written By: Joe
URL: http://
ot that I blame them, but it just means that they’re no better than groups like Hamas.
Quite the contrary. You don’t see Israel helping either side destroy the other, do you? And it’s not like they’re cheering for the deaths of their enemies...unlike the Palestinians. They’re doing the right thing by staying out of this, and I doubt Hamas would ever do the right thing.

Besides, when your enemy is self-destructing, the wise thing to do is let him; when two of your enemies are destroying each other, it’s doubly wise.
 
Written By: steverino
URL: http://steverino.journalspace.com/
"You can imagine what will come out of any camps Egypt sets up for fleeing Palestinians, especially if they’re predominantly Fatah sympathizers. Can you say "insurgency" and continued "civil war"?"

I can see it now. 50 years from now the Gaza Liberation Front will be demanding a "Right of Return" as part of peace negotiations with Hamas.


"Joe: I think Jon is going to put you out of business."

Funny, I had much the same thought.

For some time I have been thinking that it is a good thing for the Arabs that the Jews existed, because the only thing that keeps them from killing each other is that Jews have priority. I guess I was wrong, it looks like they just can’t wait.
 
Written By: timactual
URL: http://
The Mideast is going into a serious phase of internal conflict (I deal with that in my blog today), with turmoil in Gaza, Lebanon and Iraq. This could all get very bad. I’m convinced the Iraq war has played a huge part in radicalizing parts of the Arab populations, and limiting the capacity of the US to effectively counter all this. Well, we can’t undo the past. But what next? Does anybody think that if these problems spread the US is really in a position to find some kind of military solution? How can Israel deal with this?
 
Written By: Scott Erb
URL: http://faculty.umf.maine.edu/~erb/blog.htm

Besides, when your enemy is self-destructing, the wise thing to do is let him; when two of your enemies are destroying each other, it’s doubly wise.
Israel can’t eliminate the Gaza strip or West Bank, and mass ethnic cleansing is not a feasible option. Thus seeing Hamas defeat Fatah, an organization they could deal with, and which has recognized Israel’s right to exist, is very bad for Israel. Hamas could partner with al qaeda and make Gaza a terror haven. A lot of people who think they are being pro-Israel don’t realize that without a peaceful settlement in time its inevitable that radicalism will overtake moderation and this will be an existential threat to Israel. That time might be closer than we think. Developments there are not good for anyone, except the necrophiliacs.
 
Written By: Scott Erb
URL: http://faculty.umf.maine.edu/~erb/blog.htm
I’m convinced the Iraq war has played a huge part in radicalizing parts of the Arab populations
Several athletes at Munich and Leon Klinghofer and Robert Steadham might disagree with your timeline Dr.

Further rather than talking Israel might let Hamas unleash an attack and then destroy them a la Nazi Germany...talk only works with those who listen, for those who won’t then there are other means.
 
Written By: Joe
URL: http://
As usual, the leftist media manages to both avoid any lame for both sides of Palestinians and puts is all on Israel’s shoulders.
They long suffered from Israel’s suffocating occupation, and then from Ariel Sharon’s foolishly unilateral withdrawal in 2005
So Israel was to blame for occupying them and then to blame for leaving. Hey, maybe we can blame them for global warming too.
 
Written By: cap joe
URL: http://
Joe, the groups that operated in the past had no where near the power and organization that they do now, and their appeal was always limited. The good news is that I think things can still be changed but the first step is to recognize that simplistic collectivization of each side goes nowhere and actually obscures the reality of the situation. Israel needs to form an alliance with Fatah, and Fatah needs to recognize that Israel is not their main enemy, Hamas is. If those groups can start to recognize that their destinies are linked (and the Israelis and Palestinians are linked), perhaps Hamas can be defeated and a peaceful settlement achieved. One lesson that should be coming through loud and clear is that traditional military power has limited value against terror organizations.

And don’t whine about people pointing out that Israeli policies helped create this mess. All sides share a lot of blame; no side is perfect. Hamas is obviously much worse than Israel or Fatah. Fatah’s corruption helped Hamas rise to power, and made it harder for Israel to have a chance to make peace. Israel legitimately worried about security, the Palestinians chaffed at a humiliating occupation denying them basic rights. If you want a "two legs bad four legs good" universe, you’re in the wrong dimension. That’s a kindergarten mentality, the ’good guys’ vs. the ’bad guys.’ Reality doesn’t adhere to such simplistic definitions.
 
Written By: Scott Erb
URL: http://faculty.umf.maine.edu/~erb/blog.htm
I’m heartless for pointing out the irony of a bigot being treated in the same fashion he would treat jews? Perhaps I’m not the one missing a heart, perhaps it is the anti-semitic murderers. It IS their fault you know.
 
Written By: ChrisB
URL: http://
And don’t whine about people pointing out that Israeli policies helped create this mess.
As long as you admit that Israeli policies are in good part due to Arab, in general, and Palestinian actions. The western world doesnt operate in a vacuum Scott.
 
Written By: bains
URL: http://
I’m heartless for pointing out the irony of a bigot being treated in the same fashion he would treat jews? Perhaps I’m not the one missing a heart, perhaps it is the anti-semitic murderers. It IS their fault you know.
Chris B: I guess I’m too much of an individualist with libertarian leanings to place collective guilt on a whole people because of what some extremists do. I also know that if you mistreat people they often end up doing bad things. But if you want a simple "two legs bad, four legs good" world view, I guess you can have it. It’s wrong, but people have wrong beliefs a lot.

And turning to Joe, yes, Israel’s policies are also driven by a need for security and legitimate concerns about Palestine being used to launch attacks. That’s the sad part of this, one can and should understand each side — because ultimately they have to find a way out of this. But Israel should not be villified, and the collective guilt of Israelis should be avoided just as much as that of Palestinians. I believe people should think more about individuals and individual responsibility and not collectives.
 
Written By: Scott Erb
URL: http://faculty.umf.maine.edu/~erb/blog.htm
if i was israel i would look to support fatah just enough to prolong the war long as possible. that way if the pals are killing each other there are less of them to kill israelies. brutal thinking but fact.
 
Written By: SLNTAX
URL: http://
I guess I’m too much of an individualist with libertarian leanings to place collective guilt on a whole people because of what some extremists do.
Really? Cause it’s looked like you’ve blamed israel for what some extremists do. I’ll prefer to blame the extremists and those who voted for them for the actions of the extremists.
 
Written By: ChrisB
URL: http://
Really? Cause it’s looked like you’ve blamed israel for what some extremists do. I’ll prefer to blame the extremists and those who voted for them for the actions of the extremists.
ChrisB, is it really not getting through to you that I am not blaming one side over the other? Do you really not comprehend that both sides share blame, and that this is has a long history with numerous mistakes and errors? If you feel comfortable in your simplistic little "one side all good, one side all bad" and want to avoid complexity, go ahead. It’s completely irrational and indefensible, built more on bigotry, it seems, than rational reflection.

Here’s the deal: the Jews were escaping persecution in Europe and decided that buying land from the Ottomans in the place their religion formed would be rational. Makes sense. The Arabs living there, who wanted sovereignty from the Ottoman empire, saw the Jews as wealthy Europeans with (to them) an absurd claim that because people of their religion lived there millenia ago they had a right to the land. After WWII and the holocaust, the Jews declare Israel a state, the Arabs want a state of Palestine which would be Arab dominated (but of course Jews could live there).

The UN takes this up, supports a partition. MISTAKE ONE: The Arabs choose war over accepting the UN plan. This has doomed the Arabs to far less land than they could have had, and started the path towards the current situation. Thus the Arabs have considerable blame in starting this going, even if they believed they were fighting European colonialism tryinig to maintain their sovereignty.

Other mistakes: Israel’s invasion during the Suez crisis, and Arab posturing which led Israel to strike in 1967 (Israel attacked first, but was goaded into it). The Arabs really share or even have a majority of blame for causing the 1967 crisis and war. Israel wins massively.

So far, more blame from me to the Arabs than to Israel. But after 1967 it gets murky. Most Palestinians want to have the occupied territories returned, which a UN Security Council resolution supports. Israel is hesitant due to security concerns. The PLO operates to try to "liberate" Palestine, using terror. Meanwhile, a generation of young Palestinians grow up under an often brutal occupation, with Israeli settlements getting water and supplies and the Palestinian economy being at the mercy of Israel. This helps extremist groups get the Palestinians angry, especially those growing up with no state, no real political rights and few economic chances. It’s a recipee for the growth in radicalism. Many Israeli tactics and actions made this worse when it could have been better. Israel gets some blame.

But so does the PLO. After they agree Israel has a right to exist and agree that the 1967 borders is the extent of their claims, they could have governed their parts without corruption and with efforts towards reconciliation. Instead Arafat acted more like a Godfather figure than one deserving his Nobel prize. PA corruption grew, and Hamas gained support because they weren’t corrupt, and did a lot of charity work. Hamas downplayed extremism against Israel, and Palestinians voted for Hamas because of PA corruption and misgovernance, not out of support for extremist policies. Yet Israeli tactics, like Sharon’s Temple Mount visit in 2001 and initial crackdown caused Hamas to gain support. Extremist terrorist tactics, of course, caused an angry reaction is Israel.

Extremists on each side can act and control the agenda, when most Israelis and Palestinians want peace. Key: ditch the stupid "it’s all their fault" idea that it has to be one sides’ fault or the others’. Recognize the complexity, and the fact that these two groups have intertwined destinies — they’ll either find a way to live together or Israel and the Palestinian ares will likely end up unlivable after nuclear terror or mass violence. That’s something nobody in their right mind would want.
 
Written By: Scott Erb
URL: http://faculty.umf.maine.edu/~erb/blog.htm
Here’s the deal: the Jews were escaping persecution in Europe and decided that buying land from the Ottomans in the place their religion formed would be rational. Makes sense. The Arabs living there, who wanted sovereignty from the Ottoman empire, saw the Jews as wealthy Europeans with (to them) an absurd claim that because people of their religion lived there millenia ago they had a right to the land.
You are forgetting part of the history of the place. There was a much earlier back to nature movement (where the idea of the kibbutz came from). There people bought land from the locals. However, they were socialists and not really religiously inclined. Much of the land was bought by agents who were shown beautiful fields and orchards. The reality was that the actual land deeds were for swamps and deserts that no one wanted. These early settlers then turned these god forsaken places that no Arab wanted into the beautiful places in the pictures.

So when the actual story of the holocaust came out, many of these groups offered their land as a place of refuge.

The British had a different idea. They were constantly grabbing the holocaust refugees and deporting them as well as holding them in refuge camps. Eventually the Bits gave up and let them go.

And your claim that the Jews wanted all the land is a gross prevarication. There was no such claim by the majority. A small and not very powerful group of extremists yes, but they had no power until the Arabs threatened to exterminate them.

The original separation of land was a patchwork of a bit here and a bit there. Many of the Arab dwellers lost significant amounts of land when they left the land in anticipation of the war because they figured that the Jews would be exterminated and there would be all the land they wanted. That, off course, counted on the recovered lands that the early settlers reclaimed.

 
Written By: capt joe
URL: http://
A tenet of Islam is that if Muslims do not control government whenever and wherever they have the opportunity to seize it, then they are in a state of humiliation. However, they are not in such a condition when Muslim dictators or crazies rule over them. From an Islamic POV, therefore, Gaza is experiencing happy times. Let the Gazan Arabs be so joyous for the foreseeable future.

However, the UN has to play the spoilsport. Apparently, Mr. DeSoto reports that things are not so wonderful and it’s all the fault of President Bush and Israel. His report to the Secretary-General says that Gaza’s economic conditions result from an aid boycott orchestrated by the US (like the EU and others participate). Moreover, DeSoto and his staff of deranged anti-semites wrote that the present chaos in Gaza is a direct result of Israel’s decision to withdraw. Therefore, they blame Israel for occupying Gaza, then they blame Israel for withdrawing under UN directives. It isn’t just Mr. DeSoto who needs to be shown the door, but the entire corrupt secretariat because it cannot be reformed for the foreseeable future.

Ambassador Bolton had begun to force reforms when he corralled the countries which provide almost 90% of UN funding to push for UN reforms. Of course, most of the General Assembly consists of foreign aid sponges who voted these reforms down. The next step might have been a devastating (to the UN) financial boycott. However, this impetus died when Congress refused to confirm Bolton to a permanent position. With a Jackass Party administration likely after the 2008 elections, there is little likelihood that a Democratic Bolton equivalent would be appointed. Hence, the UN will remain corrupt and it will continue to support Hamas, Hizballah and other murderers.

chsw
 
Written By: chsw
URL: http://
I’m convinced the Iraq war has played a huge part in radicalizing parts of the Arab populations, and limiting the capacity of the US to effectively counter all this.

So, before Iraq, we were able to effectively counter "all this."

Puh-lease. To some extent you are of course correct, though it cuts both ways - seeing Iraq probably also moderates some sections of the Arab world who decide that Al Qaeda is not a heroic movement after all. Invading Afghanistan also brought loads of Arabs wandering over to Pakistan to "study" or "find wives." (I’d love to see Pakistani immigration data on entries to Pakistan pre and post 9/11. I would guess they would be significantly up)

Plus Lebanon’s problems don’t stem from Israel or Iraq, but more from their civil war in 1975.

Radicalization of the middle east started a long time ago, first with Arab nationalism and socialism and then in 1979 with Islamism in Iran.

p.s. Whenever a country actually wants peace with Israel, like Egypt or Jordan, they somehow manage to negotiate a peace agreement which the Israelis honor. Of course those countries are not full of competing armed factions like the Palestinians have been since long before Iraq happened.
 
Written By: Harun
URL: http://
And your claim that the Jews wanted all the land is a gross prevarication.
I didn’t think I claimed that; I noted that if the Arabs had accepted the UNSCOP proposal they would have had a larger state. The Zionist movement started at the end of the 19th century, especially after Austrian journalist Theodor Herzl published his book promoting a Jewish state. The Ottomans were happy to sell land to the Europeans moving there.

CHSW: Most Muslims are not extremist or fundamentalist, and until only recently the Arabs saw this issue in terms of land/sovereignty (anti-colonialism, outside European control) and not religion. Religious extremism came later, in part as a result of the way the situation developed.
 
Written By: Scott Erb
URL: http://faculty.umf.maine.edu/~erb/blog.htm
The Ottomans were happy to sell land to the Europeans moving there.
yes, land that were deserts, swamps, cliffs. If these lands had not been sold then they would still be deserts, swamps, etc instead of fertile agro areas. The land deals were scams and the Ottomans got a lot of money for it. Pardon me if I don’t cry for them because the early Jews took lemons and made delicious lemonade from them. Pardon me if i don’t see why they should give it back.

Nevertheless, many of the early kibbutzim were socialists and interested in communal living free from rampant and violent European racism. There weren’t religious fanatics.
 
Written By: cap joe
URL: http://
Capt Joe, I agree about the Ottomans (who are Turks, and not the Arab Palestinians living there) and about the early Jewish settlers. Remember, I don’t have a horse in this fight, I’m both pro-Israel and pro-Palestinian. I oppose the Palestinian radicals and extremists in Israel who don’t want to make peace. I recognize as well that the Palestinian radicals are, at this point, a far bigger obstacle than Israeli policies. But I refuse to see all Palestinians as having some kind of collective guilt, and I do understand the impact of years of humiliating occupation (with real restrictions on political and economic liberty). I also recognize that PA corruption hindered peace and helped Hamas as much as Israeli military tactics. I’m trying to look at this not in terms of "which side do I choose," but, seeing how both peoples have linked destinies, how can one find a way out of this mess, so that the majority of normal folk who want a good life can have a chance. When I make this argument to people who are strongly in favor of Palestinian rights, they accuse me of siding completely with Israel. I maintain that to be pro-Israel you must also be pro-Palestinian. They’ll either find a way to live together, or they’ll die together.
 
Written By: Scott Erb
URL: http://faculty.umf.maine.edu/~erb/blog.htm
but, seeing how both peoples have linked destinies,
Rubbish.

Absolute idiocy.

Each people has their own destiny in their hands. "Palestine" can easily die while Israel flourishes. That was the whole point of the Gaza withdrawl. Don’t yolk a civilized society to that of a bunch of sub-human lunatics that.

The Palis have their own destiny now. The intra-animal fighting going on over there is in no way, shape or form Israels fault.
 
Written By: shark
URL: http://
Shark, you’re wrong. You can’t have a secure Israel without a stable Palestine. The current infighting in Palestine endangers Israel more because the extremists are winning. You can’t have a flourishing Palestine without a secure Israel. If Israel does not feel secure, it cannot tolerate dangers coming from the West Bank or Gaza. They’re together, like it or not.
 
Written By: Scott Erb
URL: http://faculty.umf.maine.edu/~erb/blog.htm
If Israel does not feel secure, it cannot tolerate dangers coming from the West Bank or Gaza. They’re together, like it or not.
That doesn’t mean "their destinies are linked" crap is true.

They are NOT together. Israel has the same issues with Syria, Iran. Are they "linked" forever with those losers also? I guess we’re "linked together" with China. (If this was 20 years ago we’d have been "linked together" with the USSR. Funny thing that, how those links can break yah?) There is a difference between having to keep a watchful eye on a regional enemy as opposed to "DESTINIES BEING LINKED"

Israel left Gaza so the fate of the Gazoos wasn’t their fault or responsibility. Gaza can quite easily choose to go in a direction that doesn’t put them at war with Israel.

Don’t saddle the Jews with eternal responsibility for the muslims pal. Every man and nation captains their own destiny

 
Written By: shark
URL: http://
The reality is, Shark, that no man is an island, and Israel’s territory is so intertwined with that of the Palestinians that it is impossible for them to ignore them or pretend they don’t exist. If the Islamic extremists win, like they are in Gaza, it is a direct threat to Israel more severe than the threat posed by the Arab states last century before Camp David. Israel is vulnerable.

This sentence you posted is utterly absurd:
"Don’t saddle the Jews with eternal responsibility for the muslims pal"
First, there are Israeli Muslims, and there are Muslims all over the world not connected with the Palestinians. It ain’t the religion, it’s the geopolitics. Religion has become a force that extremists rally around only recently in Palestine, and that’s a very dangerous development. When all other hope is gone, religion can be abused that way. And Israel’s destiny is not completely of its own making, what happens in these territories Israel in part occupies and otherwise controls the borders and limits of movement matters. Their destinies are linked, no matter how much you want to deny it.
 
Written By: Scott Erb
URL: http://faculty.umf.maine.edu/~erb/blog.htm
"....This could all get very bad"

As brilliant, incisive, and profound as usual. Next stop, Meet The Press. Let us pray that the Middle East returns to its traditional peaceful and serene condition.

" I also know that if you mistreat people they often end up doing bad things"

Aha! That explains why the Jews are so nasty. Problem solved.
 
Written By: timactual
URL: http://
This article is interesting. Then what of Gaza?
 
Written By: Scott Erb
URL: http://faculty.umf.maine.edu/~erb/blog.htm
Their destinies are linked, no matter how much you want to deny it.
Their destinies are not linked, and repeating the mentra doesn’t make it so.

Arabs can stop acting like subhumans and try civilization for awhile. It’s all on them.

Giving me this bullspit "linked destinies" claptrap implies some responsibility/culpability on Israel’s part for them. Why, are they children? They’re captains of their ship. What happens to them is neither Israels fault or responsibility. If they insist on putting themselves in a combatant position with a better armed country, so be it.
 
Written By: shark
URL: http://
Their destinies are not linked, and repeating the mentra doesn’t make it so.
They are. I didn’t just repeat it, I explained why in detail. You reply in vague slogans and pretend I claim that Israel is "responsible for them," which of course I don’t. The shrillness of your replies suggests you know you can’t actually respond to my argument, but you aren’t willing to admit you were wrong. Oh well.
 
Written By: Scott Erb
URL: http://faculty.umf.maine.edu/~erb/blog.htm

 
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Vicious Capitalism

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Buy Dale's Book!
Slackernomics by Dale Franks

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