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Well, now you know how well a clay pigeon flies
Posted by: McQ on Thursday, June 28, 2007

As Billy has pointed out, the immigration bill died in the Senate today ... again.

Now the fun begins. Who is to blame? Who will pay the political price? The spin machines are going to be working overtime today. Was it the Republican's fault? Bush (ok, that's a natural)? As far as I'm concerned it was certainly a statement on how much of a lame duck Bush has become, that's for sure.

How about Harry Reid, supposed Majority Leader in the Senate, who has tried desperately this week to claim it is a Republican bill while being the one who schemed to bring it to the Senate floor twice and was unable to deliver either time. Yo, Mr. Reid, who is the incompetent now?

And how will the presidential candidates spin this to their advantage? Republican advantage? Democrat advantage?

Yes friends, the fun with this little goodie is just beginning. Hold on for the ride of your life.

Oh, and as an "I told you so", seems it is shaping up as, if not the most significant issue in the election, at least in the top three.
 
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Previous Comments to this Post 

Comments
Harry Reid, so much a loss...he was already a LOSER before this, whilst this is not his shining hour I just don’t see how his "Dasapproval" numbers could be much lower. Bottom-Line: the only direction he can go is up

President Bush, takes a hit, he wanted this, seemingly more than he wanted to reform Soshe Security and he got beaten, twice....plus it splits the GOP and drives Bush’s numbers further down, and reflects the expenditure of political capital for naught.

McCain loses...bunches.
 
Written By: Joe
URL: http://
The GOP may have just saved themselves....yes the debate polarized the party, but imagine the actual passage!?

Skin of their undeserving teeth...
 
Written By: shark
URL: http://
The opposition to immigration reform from the right has left me feeling like a political orphan. I am still in shock at the vitriol from people I used to consider liked minded citizens, concerned with big government. Celebrate, dance, sing, do you what you want to do - but I will not vote with you anymore in the future as I once did. Third party for me, if I vote at all.
 
Written By: Elliot
URL: http://
The issue will fade until after the elections. The silly emotion driven reaction to the bill assures the status quo will continue. That’s OK. There will never be mass deportations, there will never be a major increase in enforcement without some kind of guest worker program. Mark my words. This probably does increase the chances the Democrats will gain the Executive and Legislative branches, and pass something like this, with the support of the business community. The GOP is playing to its fringe elements, and that will hurt them.
 
Written By: Scott Erb
URL: http://faculty.umf.maine.edu/~erb/blog.htm
Which fringe elements, Herr Doktor? The left fringe of the GOP? I didn’t realize there was such a thing.

Very few conservatives wanted that POS bill passed.
 
Written By: A fine scotch
URL: http://
I am still in shock at the vitriol from people I used to consider liked minded citizens, concerned with big government. Celebrate, dance, sing, do you what you want to do - but I will not vote with you anymore in the future as I once did. Third party for me, if I vote at all.

More specificity please, are you one of the "Bigots" or one of the folks in favour of COMPREHENSIVE reform?

And the 3rd party, why bother voting? You might as well just say, "I’m throwing my vote awy, thank you very much?’

But since you brought it up, just WHAT 3rd party are you in favour of? Or is this the mythical 3rd party that is going to mobilize 43-55% of the popular vote in order to generate a Presidential victory? Again, more specificty please.
 
Written By: Joe
URL: http://
And before someone posts the "Hotair"/Fox News link about "67%" of Americans voting for a 3rd party, realize this, they didn’t say WHICH 3rd party. This is akin to the "Generic Democrat/Republican" v. a SPECIFIC candidate poll. It allows the responder to construct his/her MODEL D or R and compare it to an ACTUAL D or R, with the REAL candidate coming up short, of course, after all my MODEL wife is 6’, red-haired, English, 36DD, as skilled as Xavier Hollander, talented as Ann Coulter, and domestically the equivalent of Martha Stewart...needless to say, my SO does NOT meet these "perfect" criteria, but then I’m not her "perfect" guy either, by a long shot.

This 3rd party poll simply asks would you vote or CONSIDER voting for a 3rd party, I would IF the party supported the Pro-Life position, opposed gay marriage, supported judges akin to Thomas, Alito, and Scalia, supported a smaller government, supported the GWoT, supported the domestic security arrangements of the current Administration, and supported the Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and was strong on the War on Drugs and supported Free Trade. In short, the PERFECT 3rd party (to me), and of course the REAL parties come up short....But I’ll bet my perfect party isn’t YOURS and so all this "3rd party" stuff is just that..."stuff."

So, let any 3rd party person advance their ideas for the positions of this mythical 3rd party, and try to move past what you’re against and give me the POSTIVE program of such a 3rd party that can make a difference.

 
Written By: Joe
URL: http://
The GOP is playing to its fringe elements
There goes Erb, again...making sh*t up.
Rasmussen Reports:
Among the public, there is a bi-partisan lack of enthusiasm for the Senate bill. It is supported by 22% of Republicans, 23% of Democrats, and 22% of those not affiliated with either major party. It is opposed by 52% of Republicans, 50% of Democrats, and 48% of unaffiliateds.
Unless, of course, Erb was referring to himself as the "fringe".
 
Written By: JWG
URL: http://
Illegal immigration is a very hot issue and needs to be handled carefully. I am sure there is a way to have a national dialog and come up with a compromise bill, but trying to ram one through in the middle of the night, so to speak, is not a good idea. A lot of people opposed to this bill were not knuckle-dragging nativists at all.
 
Written By: Harun
URL: http://
A lot of people opposed to this bill were not knuckle-dragging nativists at all.
Were too! Definition, this was a GOOD bill, only the stoopit or evillll would have opposed it...man harun are you really that blind? Just ask Erb or the man I voted for President for in 2000 and ’04.
 
Written By: Joe
URL: http://
The silly emotion driven reaction to the bill
It was that "silly, emotion driven reaction" that got that bill killed.

You see, that’s how this thing works.

When the people don’t have "silly, emotion driven reactions", Congress doesn’t take any notice whatsoever.

And just why the hell shouldn’t we have "silly, emotion driven reactions" to our congress and president trying to ram a bill practically nobody seems to want down our throat using arcane Senate rules?

 
Written By: shark
URL: http://
A lot of people opposed to this bill were not knuckle-dragging nativists at all.
Gee, thanks for that.

But I can tell you that most of the people FOR this bill were salivating to exploit these people. Big business, the Dems, and those strange GOP members who thought this could swing the latino vote for the GOP.

 
Written By: shark
URL: http://
I don’t think it really matters to you what party I’ll vote for. It just won’t be the Republican party, like it used to be. As far as I’m concerned, I no longer view them as small government, not with guys like DeMint, Sessions, and Vitter around.

Have fun with you partisan purity.
 
Written By: Elliot
URL: http://
It just won’t be the Republican party, like it used to be. As far as I’m concerned, I no longer view them as small government, not with guys like DeMint, Sessions, and Vitter around.
We’ve got the biggest spending GOP president in office in my lifetime, and you’re saying the GOP’s anti-small-government problem is guys such as DeMint and Sessions?

Just let me get this straight here. You were fine supporting the GOP when Bush federalized education, established the largest social program since the days of Lyndon Johnson, and established a huge Homeland Security bureaucracy, but now you’re soured on the GOP because they wouldn’t establish a huge new bureaucracy to deal with immigration? And you’re mad because these guys are somehow not meeting your standards for supporting small government, when immigration bill supporters such as Trent Lott are some of the biggest porkers around?

And you prefer the position of that notable small government proponent, Ted Kennedy?

I confess, I’m baffled.

Never having been a GOP partisan, and knowing Bush’s flaws all too well, I’ve long been critical of the Republicans for many reasons. But your position of suddenly being distraught about lack of support for small government over this bill just makes no sense to me.
 
Written By: Billy Hollis
URL: http://
The opposition to immigration reform from the right has left me feeling like a political orphan. I am still in shock at the vitriol from people I used to consider liked minded citizens, concerned with big government.
Elliot, your stance is.....confusing to say the least.

Are you leaving the GOP because they’re no longer a small govt party? Or because of their resistance to immigration reform. You’ve referenced both as reasons, which is it? I don’t think you can lump them in...seems to me that most conservatives were the ones AGAINST immigration reform. As a conservative, and a proponent of small govt, what was in the immigration reform that appealed to you exactly?

Can you tell me exactly what you want from the GOP vis-a-vis immigration exactly—and how that would dovetail into small(er) govt?

Have fun with you partisan purity

Point of order here, this isn’t like what the Dems do to those who stray from the orthodoxy on abortion or Iraq. You’re choosing to leave, you’re not being bumrushed out. You can certainly leave if you want, you’re not the only one but don’t act the victim on the way out please.
 
Written By: shark
URL: http://
Reading my favorite blogs comment threads on this issue I see many comments from ’conservatives’ who have never posted before lamenting the demise of the GOP. I’d guess one of those super-secret, super-intellignt townhouse memos...

Good DAY!
 
Written By: bains
URL: http://
Here is the deal - it is one thing when the politicians sell out small government principles. It is quite another when the grass roots do it. With immigration we have both. For all the talk about enforcing the law as written, if you actually look at the law, it is not proportional nor reflective of our values when it is actually enforced (see ten year bans, inability of american citizen spouses to marry/live with EWI immigrants, etc....).

Anyway, as I said, celebrate, dance on the roofs, get drunk, be merry. I just won’t be voting with you anymore.
 
Written By: Elliot
URL: http://
"A lot of people opposed to this bill were not knuckle-dragging nativists at all."

nativism;
"A sociopolitical policy, especially in the United States in the 19th century, favoring the interests of established inhabitants over those of immigrants"
http://www.answers.com/topic/nativism?cat=health

I don’t have any calluses on my knuckles, but I confess to being a nativist. What, exactly, is wrong with being a nativist?
*************************

"As far as I’m concerned, I no longer view them as small government, not with guys like DeMint, Sessions, and Vitter around."

*snicker*
Six years of increasing deficits and larger government and NOW he gets upset.
 
Written By: timactual
URL: http://
As I said timactual, before I was upset at the politicians in Washington and often urging the grass roots on. Now I’m upset at both.
 
Written By: Elliot
URL: http://
I just won’t be voting with you anymore
1) This is a libertarian website.
2) I don’t believe Elliot ever supported the GOP considering his Bush-is-a-coke-head reference in a previous thread.
 
Written By: JWG
URL: http://
I just won’t be voting with you anymore.
Who is "you", Elliot? I’ve never voted for Bush or the Republicans. Who on this website are you addressing this too?

And I agree with JWG ... I don’t recall Elliot ever coming on here and supporting Republicans to begin with.
 
Written By: McQ
URL: http://www.qando.net/blog
Here is the deal - it is one thing when the politicians sell out small government principles. It is quite another when the grass roots do it. With immigration we have both. For all the talk about enforcing the law as written, if you actually look at the law, it is not proportional nor reflective of our values when it is actually enforced (see ten year bans, inability of american citizen spouses to marry/live with EWI immigrants, etc....).
Thanks for totally avoiding my question....I must conclude you’re one of those "Moby" posters- fake lifelong Republicans who suddenly have an epiphany and leave the party.

I don’t think you actually know what conservatism really is, outside of a few buzzwords you picked up on Kos or MyDD
 
Written By: shark
URL: http://
" I just won’t be voting with you anymore"

I suppose that voting ’with’ somebody shows good team spirit, but I was always under the impression that people should vote for or against candidates on the basis of their positions on issues. Why you voted for candidates you disagree with is beyound me. Evidently the actual voting records and conduct of the people you vote for are less important than the attitudes of your neighbors. I suggest you move.
 
Written By: timactual
URL: http://

 
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