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Michael Yon: Second Chances
Posted by: McQ on Wednesday, July 11, 2007

Michael Yon talks about the battle in Baquba at D+20. Some highlights include a discussion of MSM coverage, whether or not the story about al Qaeda "baking a child" is true and the fact that given their previous barbarity, it is certainly possible and some past history on Gen Petreus, one of the battalion commanders and second chances.

Again, if you're so inclined, hit the tip jar over at Yon's place.
 
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Previous Comments to this Post 

Comments
I admire Michael Yon’s reporting, but he is in an awkward position, essentially being funded by his audience. I hope Yon can maintain his independence and not succumb to the jingoism that permeates the commentary on his blog. (Why must every commenter insult those who think withdrawal is in America’s best interests?)

I have been complaining about the dearth of information since the war began. It is awful that the credibility of our mainstream media has been so compromised that Americans are willing to purchase news about an American war. But that’s where we are.

BTW, I did make a contribution, so, Michael, keep up the good work. And stay safe.
 
Written By: David Shaughnessy
URL: http://
(Why must every commenter insult those who think withdrawal is in America’s best interests?)
Because it is obviously not true, and only suits the interests of that fraction of the American public who adhere to the Liberal Narrative.

Like the people discussed in this post, who are "patriotic" only to an America which does not, can not, and should not exist.

Yours, TDP, ml, msl, & pfpp
 
Written By: Tom Perkins
URL: http://
(Why must every commenter insult those who think withdrawal is in America’s best interests?)
Because it is obviously not true, and only suits the interests of that fraction of the American public who adhere to the Liberal Narrative.
Ridiculous. More than 70% of Americans want our troops out of Iraq. That’s a pretty large "fraction." You guys have gone insane with this Liberal Narrative nonsense. (Is this the corollary to Bush Derangement Syndrome?)
 
Written By: David Shaughnessy
URL: http://
More than 70% of Americans want our troops out of Iraq. That’s a pretty large "fraction."
And a very large fraction of the people who want us to be out of Iraq also want us to win if we can. Yon’s posts and other non-MSM journalists show that we can win.

The fraction of people who want us to leave no matter what is very much less than half of the public.

Yours, TDP, ml, msl, & pfpp
 
Written By: Tom Perkins
URL: http://
Yon’s posts and other non-MSM journalists show that we can win.
This is a perfect illustration of my fear regarding Yon’s reporting: that he will be "propagandized" by his readers. I hope it doesn’t happen.

Anyway, like it or not, this is a democracy. And democracies cannot fight wars without popular support. You might think the American public is stupid, or has been duped, but the bottom line is: More than 70% of Americans want to get out of Iraq. And America cannot prosecute a war under those conditions. Deal with it.
 
Written By: David Shaughnessy
URL: http://
Yon’s posts and other non-MSM journalists show that we can win.
This is a perfect illustration of my fear regarding Yon’s reporting: that he will be "propagandized" by his readers.
So the on the ground truth is propaganda? That’s classically LN and very sad.

If we are not withdrawn prematurely, we will win. Can you deal with that?

Yours, TDP, ml, msl, & pfpp
 
Written By: Tom Perkins
URL: http://
And David, I note you did not attempt to deal with this truth.
And a very large fraction of the people who want us to be out of Iraq also want us to win if we can.
Yours, TDP, ml, msl, & pfpp
 
Written By: Tom Perkins
URL: http://
So the on the ground truth is propaganda? That’s classically LN and very sad.
No, on-the-ground truth, is obviously important (that’s why I donated to Yon). But it most certainly can be utililized for propaganda purposes, which is what you appear to be doing. (I will no longer respond to Liberal Narrative nonsense.)
If we are not withdrawn prematurely, we will win. Can you deal with that?
You don’t know this. Many Americans disagree with your assessment, or have concluded that "winning" is not worth the cost. Either way, 70% want out. The real question is how to do it properly. And the sooner we ( and the Bush Administration) begin addressing this question the better. I am afraid that Bush’s recalcitrance will engender a like reaction in his opponents, and that the withdrawal, when it comes, may be done as poorly as the war was conceived, planned, and executed. That would be a compounding catastrophe that should be avoided at all costs. But it requires dealing with the reality that we are leaving.
 
Written By: David Shaughnessy
URL: http://
If we are not withdrawn prematurely, we will win. Can you deal with that?
You don’t know this.
No I do. This is the historical result of every contested insurgency/resistance effort where the occupying power was resolute, no exceptions.
Either way, 70% want out.
That is far more simplistic than reality, which is that a majority only want us out if we can’t win. A majority want us to win if we can.

You have not not addressed the fact that Yon’s posts indicate we can win.
The real question is how to do it properly.
After we win is the proper way to do it.
But it requires dealing with the reality that we are leaving.
If the lessons of recent history are learned—Vietnam—we will see no mass withdrawals until 2009 at the earliest, and then will indefinitely continue the economic and military aid required to maintain the viability of a broadly elected Iraqi government.

Within one generation’s maturation, approximately twenty years, we will be no more involved in combat in Iraq then were in Korea circa 1970.
But it requires dealing with the reality that we are leaving.
Leaving within the timeframe you seem to desire is compounding a catastrophe that should be avoided at all costs, which you claim no to want, especially the historically low costs we are paying to finally be doing it right in Iraq.

Yours, TDP, ml, msl, & pfpp
 
Written By: Tom Perkins
URL: http://
essentially being funded by his audience
Very few frontline media reporters aren’t ultimately funded by their audience and even fewer aren’t funded by someone.

Basically, nearly all reporters, if not all, are on someone’s financial leash.
 
Written By: jpm100
URL: http://
And David, if you think there isn’t really a liberal narrative, educate yourself.

Yours, TDP, ml, msl, & pfpp
 
Written By: Tom Perkins
URL: http://
Very few frontline media reporters aren’t ultimately funded by their audience and even fewer aren’t funded by someone. Basically, nearly all reporters, if not all, are on someone’s financial leash.
Good point. The question is whether direct funding will have a positive or negative impact. Since the MSM has been a miserable failure by nearly all accounts, one can only hope for the best with the new (Yon’s) model. . . So send him a few bucks.
 
Written By: David Shaughnessy
URL: http://
Let’s be serious here. If you read, say Bill Roggio’s reporting on Iraq at the Weekly Standard, and extrapolated a case where the MSM produced that every day instead of the standard "how many dead in senseless violence while our troops get blown while just driving around doing nothing" I think we’d see different poll numbers. Now, that would also be skewed - the reality is somewhere between MSM and milbloggers.

(BTW, If anyone wants to dispute that, please explain why I had to learn the phrase "yellow journalism" in school in regards to the Spanish-American War...obviously the media can set a narrative if the want to..."Remember the Maine" vs. "Tragic Accident in Cuban Harbor")

I do think we are getting into dangerous territory when most of the population of the Western world is militarily illiterate and can be easily fed garbage reporting and analysis about any war...









 
Written By: Harun
URL: http://
"while our troops get blown while just driving around doing nothing"

GET BLOWN UP, GET BLOWN UP.

If they were just getting blown while driving around, we’d meet every recruiting goal for the next century!
 
Written By: Harun
URL: http://
" It is awful that the credibility of our mainstream media has been so compromised that Americans are willing to purchase news"

You don’t pay for newspapers or magazines? You think CBS et al. are charitable organizations?
 
Written By: timactual
URL: http://
It is awful that the credibility of our mainstream media has been so compromised that Americans are willing to purchase news about an American war.
Generally, the American people will pay for quality goods, and they can’t get that from the mainstream media...it is too thoroughly infested by proponents of the Liberal Narrative.

Yours, TDP, ml, msl, & pfpp
 
Written By: Tom Perkins
URL: http://

 
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