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Gordon Brown calls for tougher UK gun laws
Posted by: McQ on Friday, August 24, 2007

Wait I thought the UK had some of the toughest gun laws around:
GORDON Brown yesterday attacked the "heinous" killing of Rhys Jones and raised the prospect of tougher laws on guns and gangs.
You mean passing tough laws doesn't work?

How disappointing. Kind of reminds me of the war on drugs.

Brown's solution? Classic:
"Where there is a need for new laws, we will pass them; where there is a need for tougher enforcement, we will make sure that happens," he said.
Of course you will. In between putting people in jail who try to defend themselves and injure their attacker and all.

And the Home Secretary's solution?
Ms Smith has already outlined a range of measures, including the increased use of Acceptable Behaviour Contracts and a crackdown on the sale of alcohol to under-age children.
If you're not familiar with the uniquely British "Acceptable Behavior Contracts" and/or ASBOs (anti-social behavior orders), do read this little primer on the British youth culture (or anti-culture perhaps) here.

It is all about things ... guns, alcohol and orders ... isn't it? And laws.

More ... we need more laws, and orders and enforcement.

I wonder if they ever try to figure out the why of any of this?
The government seems to be on a never-ending blind run from the causes of the problem. The creation of the welfare state has allowed yobbish individuals (people who spend their lives doing very little) to lie back and let the government give them a house, unemployment benefits, and child benefits. It’s now more profitable to be a single unemployed mother than to be married and have a job. In short, it has allowed for responsibility for an individual to be taken off of his shoulders and placed onto the State. If I crash whilst manically driving my illegal motorbike down the road, the NHS (National Health Service) will take care of me.
Ah yes, paradise on earth, and making a persistent and concerted attempt to find its way on these shores as well.
 
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I’ve never understood why people think gun laws make people safer, why they think it will stop violent gun crime by any real amount...
 
Written By: Scott Jacobs
URL: http://
Gun control is never going to stop the gun crime that Brown is worried about. Understanding the underlying attitude of those who want to carry them might help lead to a solution to the growing gang problem.

One can be hopeful that we can take Gordon Brown at his word:
"Where there is a need for new laws, we will pass them; where there is a need for tougher enforcement, we will make sure that happens," he said.
Emphasis mine. Let us hope he identifies the times when there might be a need correctly, and of course also when there is not.
 
Written By: Kav
URL: http://livingrealworld.blogspot.com
Diagnosis: Severe case of Cranial Rectal Inversion
 
Written By: Sharpshooter
URL: http://
What gun control is left; taking away B-B guns and removing points on kitchen knives, which BTW has been proposed in GB. One is not permitted to defend yourself now or to go to the aid of someone being attacked. But hey the zillions of cameras will let the police record the crime and permit charging you if you were not sufficiently passive.
 
Written By: AMR
URL: http://
You mean passing tough laws doesn’t work?

How disappointing. Kind of reminds me of the war on drugs.
The war on drugs doesn’t work. However, on this topic,

are you (massively) uninformed, or dishonest?

I know I didn’t phrase this nicely, but the chutzpah amazes me. The UK has sixty million people and, in the worst year in a decade, 350 firearms deaths. That’s one death per 171,000 people, rounded down.

in 2004, the last year for data, 30,000 gun deaths occurred in the US out of 300,000,000 people.

That’s a rate of 1 death per 1000 people.

So, per capita, you’re one hundred and seventy times, or 17100%, more likely to die from a gun in the US. Not 100%. Not 1000%. Seventeen-thousand percent more likely.

And this from the people that are in favor of the massive gun-control project in Iraq!

To put up a statement like "what? gun laws in UK don’t work?" and to not acknowledge that the work, oh, 171 times more effectively is an inaccuracy of such rather amazing size, you really don’t get to see it very often. If you would go run this in the MSM, please, I could get some mileage out of fisking it...


There are good arguments against gun control. The fourth amendment is a better argument. The political opposition here is a better argument. Hell, "we prefer to be free and have a lot more people die of preventable deaths" is an honest and perhaps a reasonable argument. "Look at how this doesn’t work in Britain" is an embarrassingly, hilariously bad argument.

 
Written By: glasnost
URL: http://
are you (massively) uninformed, or dishonest?
Nice, ’nost. Just makes me want to, you know, ignore you (after you massively missed the point).

Ah, I think I will.
 
Written By: McQ
URL: http://www.qando.net/blog
know I didn’t phrase this nicely, but the chutzpah amazes me. The UK has sixty million people and, in the worst year in a decade, 350 firearms deaths. That’s one death per 171,000 people, rounded down.

in 2004, the last year for data, 30,000 gun deaths occurred in the US out of 300,000,000 people.

That’s a rate of 1 death per 1000 people.
Now who’s being dishonest?

First, over half the gun deaths in the US are suicides. Are you going to argue that those who shoot themselves to death won’t find some other means?

Second, there are over 59,000,000 gun owners in the US, with over 200,000,000 guns. There are fewer than 3,000,000 guns in England, Scotland, and Wales combined.

Third, the number of homicides committed by legal gun owners is a pretty small fraction of the total gun homicides...indicating that gun laws don’t deter criminals from killing.

Finally, violent crime in the UK has increased since its restrictive gun laws were passed, at a rate far greater than that of the US.

If you wanna play Stat Meister, I can go head-to-head with you all day long....
 
Written By: Steverino
URL: http://steverino.journalspace.com/
Oh, and gassy, you might want to check out the violent crime rates. When a yob knows all he has to do is pick up a length of 2x4 to be better armed than his victims, you get a truly astonishing rate of robberies, assaults, and "hot" home invasions....
 
Written By: SDN
URL: http://
I went to a science fiction convention this weekend and during the course of one of the panels people got talking about ubiquitous surveillance. I don’t have links for this but apparently the friend of someone well known to SF got beaten to death in England right in front of a security camera.

Not only do criminals not care about laws, they often don’t care at all if they get caught.
 
Written By: Synova
URL: http://synova.blogspot.com

 
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