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Just disgusting ...
Posted by: McQ on Tuesday, September 11, 2007

6 whites have been arrested in West Virginia for assaulting a black woman:
Besides being sexually assaulted, the woman was stabbed four times in the left leg and beaten, Porter said. Her eyes were black and blue. The wounds were inflicted at least a week ago, deputies said.

The woman was forced to eat rat and dog feces and drink from a toilet, according to the criminal complaint filed in magistrate court. She also had been choked with a cord, it alleges.

She was made to lick parts of Brewster’s body, under the threat of death, according to The Charleston Gazette. Her hair was pulled out. She was sexually assaulted while hot water was poured on her body, and while a man held a knife to her, the paper reported.
I agree completely with the mother of the victim (and yes, she's a real victim):
"I don't understand a human being doing another human being the way they did my daughter," Carmen Williams said Tuesday from her daughter's room at Charleston Area Medical Center General Hospital. "I didn't know there were people like that out here."
One of the more surprising aspects of this crime is that 3 of the defendants are women.

You know, regardless of the fact that I've been around for 5+ decades, this sort of a crime still stuns me. And while it would be bad enough if it were 6 men, I find the fact that 3 women were involved to be even more disturbing.

Obviously racism isn't dead, and, assuming the facts in the case to be true, this is an obvious case which would seem to be driven by it.

It will again raise a question which we've discussed here many times. If it is a product of racial hate, why should it be punished any more severe than a crime driven by greed, or love or whatever? IOW, why should we care if it is a "hate crime" or not?

And it brings on a new question, a more cultural question - what is happening to our women? I've read any number of reports which claim that the fastest rising crime rates are among women. Additionally, more and more violent crimes are being committed by them. What's up with that?
 
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If it is a product of racial hate, why should it be punished any more severely than a crime driven by greed, or love or whatever? IOW, why should we care if it is a "hate crime" or not?
Yes and yes, however, we have enough discretion built into our sentencing guidelines that a judge can use that discretion to punish these people more severely that if the crime were motivated by other factors.

Most factors driving crimes are part of the human condition, greed, lust, love, revenge, etc. And though people commit heinous crimes motivated by the aforementioned, one can at least understand the emotion.

Racial hatred is a purely taught, or purely learned, emotion, and I see no problem in increasing the severity just on the off chance that it can be unlearned.

That said, I still don’t see any need for specific laws for sentencing guidelines based on what was in the person’s mind.

 
Written By: Captin Sarcastic
URL: http://
I don’t know, I’m not a big favorite of hate crime presecution and these things would be just as bad perpetrated white on white.
But ya know what? For some reason, in this case, I’m finding myself leaning in favor of the hate crime prosecution after all, because I have to say I don’t think they would have done this to a white woman.
Maybe that’s just my read on it as described.

I can’t explain the change in view to myself, somehow, this just feels worse because of the racial factor.

On calmer reflection though (because this seemed to really piss me off) -
we have enough discretion built into our sentencing guidelines that a judge can use that discretion to punish these people more severely that if the crime were motivated by other factors...
&
...That said, I still don’t see any need for specific laws for sentencing guidelines based on what was in the person’s mind.


Cap is right.

 
Written By: looker
URL: http://
Kidnapping someone for no reason other than apparent racial hatred, holding her prisoner, sexually assaulting her, torturing and stabbing her. If found guilty and there are no mitigating circumstances for any of them, then in my view there are no sentencing guidelines needed. The sentence should be death. Unfortunately it won’t be since she managed to live thru their treatment.
 
Written By: DavidC
URL: http://
It’s horrible to be sure. Plus, even stranger than three women being involved, there were family connections — a mother and a son, and a mother and a daughter comprised four of the six perpetrators. Exceedingly bizarre.

It’s also surprising since at this point in US history white on black female rape is quite rare:
In the United States in 2005, 37,460 white females were sexually assaulted or raped by a black man, while between zero and ten black females were sexually assaulted or raped by a white man.

http://frontpagemagazine.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=28129
If we are going to consider this case from a racist angle, that’s another aspect to consider.


 
Written By: huxley
URL: http://
If found guilty and there are no mitigating circumstances for any of them
But aren’t there always mitigating circumstances?

It’s a lawyers job to insure that there are mitigating circumstances.

Heck, even if these miscreants admitted that this crime was based purely on racial hatred, they could claim mitigating circumstances...
"oooh, I was abused by my father during the Cosby Show, I can’t but hate black people... poor me, I’m the victim here"
 
Written By: Captin Sarcastic
URL: http://
This reminds me of the recent case where a group of blacks kidnapped a young white couple, and raped, tortured, and murdered them.
 
Written By: Don
URL: http://
But aren’t there always mitigating circumstances?

It’s a lawyers job to insure that there are mitigating circumstances.
True. I was thinking more about something that would actually be a mitigating circumstance, rather than an excuse. But you are right.
 
Written By: DavidC
URL: http://
There are three things that I find really bad about this.

First, the crime itself. Awful, disgraceful, ugly, all these words do not even come close to describing this.

Second and third are the potential reaction. So many cries of "racism" abound when someone simply repeats some easily ignored stereotype, and they pale next to this sort of thing; even still, "racism" will be the call, attempting to make a slightly silly, if not ignorant, statement become more than it is.

Also, will we ever see the kind of reaction with black on white crime (or even black on black crime, which is also far too common, even compared to white on black) that white on black carries? I don’t want to make this crime seem like it is unimportant, but isn’t that what happens with many black on white crimes?

I hope these six get the worst penalty they possibly can, but I hope this does not become some sort of "example" about similar crimes when this is the exception, and not the rule.
 
Written By: CR UVa
URL: http://TheRedStater.blogspot.com/
Kick out six non-violent offenders and keep these sociopaths locked up until they are physically unable to harm anyone again. I don’t mind they types getting three hots and cot on my dime.
 
Written By: Bob
URL: http://
There were girls in that group, too, Don.

It’s not about rape, is it, when it gets that messed up? Is it even possibly about race? At all? It’s just pure horror. The fact that a victim may have been chosen because he or she was white, or black, or whatever, just means that’s how they chose who to do it to, and not that what they *did* was because of the racism.

Oh, and just a quibble... I don’t think that racism has to be learned at all. I think it’s one half of a pair of survival traits that reaches back past human sentience. One half is xenophobia... I’m afraid of anyone not from my group because they may be a threat. The other half is openness and curiosity... I’m inclined to like someone not from my group because of the chance to bring genetic variety to a closed system or because they may bring wealth to my group from trade or new technologies.

Sometimes the person who looks different *is* a threat, a thief or a scout of a raiding party. Failing to be wary, even frightened, can mean the end of your genetic line. Period.

What we *learn* is to NOT be racist. We learn to suppress one survival instinct while we reward the *other* survival instinct, which is, frankly, that we ought to all be making babies together.
 
Written By: Synova
URL: http://synova.blogspot.com
CR UVa, with the case that Don mentioned, it wasn’t in the news so much, not because it was black on white rape/torture/murder, but because they caught the people who did it right away. So it was in the news and then it wasn’t any more.

I suspect this will have a similar media-life since the people who did it are caught. There really isn’t anything to argue about it, endlessly, on Nancy Grace.
 
Written By: Synova
URL: http://synova.blogspot.com
No to Hate Crimes proscecution philospohically it’s wrong and practically please note we ARE talking about it here, White on Black, but not in the TN. case, Black on White...practically it is only selectively used. So for both philosophic and practical reasons please no to hate crimes.

As to women and crime...women are extremely nasty....and if you look at the pictures of collaborators from Europe 1944-45 you’ll see that much of the abuse was instigated, perpetrated, and enjoyed by WOMEN! Because they are, on the whole, weaker than men, we just don’t think of them as violent, but given the right circumstances, they can be as cruel if not more cruel than men. Add to the mix that we ARE achieving equality of the sexes in the US, for good and ill, and this really ought not be too shocking. In fact, IIRC, from the 1990’s and an Economist article, that women ae committing an increasing share of violent crime in the US.

As to how anyone could do this, well I’m a Conservative, we believe in Original Sin and the Fallen Nature of Man, people can do this and do much worse all the time, sometimes on a vastly larger scale. In my more cynical days, my friends and I called this, "Humans having good clean fun," because we have done it throughout our history and pre-history.

Now I just shake my head and think that it is a pity that someone’s life can be so empty and meaningless and so filled with self-loathing that they can do this to another human. BTW, that doesn’t mean they get a "get out of jail free" card because they are damaged goods, I think Christian and Self-Help groups have gotten a somewhat deserved, but nasty rep for supposedly "caring about the criminal more than the victim." As we say in my group, "It’s an explanation,not an excuse."
 
Written By: Joe
URL: http://
One possible answer to "what’s happening to our women" is that, as I understand it, women didn’t used to be arrested or tried for stuff because it was assumed that the men were responsible and the women... not. Because they weren’t quite legally responsible adults. Particularly if a woman was married it would be assumed that she was following her husband’s orders.

I’m sure there are lots of exceptions.

 
Written By: Synova
URL: http://synova.blogspot.com
Re: mitigating factors

Actually, a lot of things that people call "mitigating factors," I call "aggravating factors." If someone "can’t help but" commit a crime because his brain’s been tweaked by nature or trauma, that’s a reason to lock the person up longer. That person is admitting that he is likely to commit similar crimes in the future.

It seems to me that the decent way to approach mitigating and aggravating factors is to determine how much damage the convict (or another person in similar circumstances) is likely to cause in the future. Unfortunately, it’s easier to line up testimony on mitigating factors than aggravating factors, because testifying against a rotten bastard can lead to revenge. Spending too much time on mitigating and aggravating factors in court, furthermore, comes with costs of its own, including packed court systems that deny other defendants a speedy trial.

So, let’s review:
If the convict committed a crime of passion, that person’s behavior has betrayed a lack of self-control and of tendency toward crime.
If the convict committed a crime because of bad parenting or a brain state that’s likely to repeat itself, that person is likely to go back to committing crimes, and needs to be incapacitated and deterred even more.
If the convict committed a crime because of something that is unlikely to ever happen again, or was coerced into committing the crime, prison can only do so much good, and could cause more harm.
 
Written By: Bryan Pick
URL: http://www.qando.net
This seems to me to be simply an exercise of power, and women can be as power-hungry as men. Rape itself is a crime not of sex - no one can reasonably call that sex - but of power and control: the rapist wants to feel powerful, to feel that they have the power of life and death over others. My question is not how we should treat these narcissistic bastards (kill them all, and be done with it, works fine for me), but how can we as a society move away from narcissism and towards civility (in both senses of the word)? I don’t know what drives such a level of simultaneous self-love and self-annihilation, so I can’t answer about how to fix it. But it must be fixed, because this level of narcissism is still an exception, but the level of narcissism in our culture generally is rising.
 
Written By: Jeff Medcalf
URL: http://www.caerdroia.org/blog
I don’t understand a human being doing another human being the way they did my daughter,"
That’s because the animals who did this are not human.

This is something where I don’t think racism is a driving factor- more a symptom than disease. Something like this is the product of a mind disturbed in more ways than hating someone’s race.

Dear god, please keep Jackson and Sharpton away from this
 
Written By: shark
URL: http://
I don’t understand a human being doing another human being the way they did my daughter,"
That’s because the animals who did this are not human.
Well that’s a nice sentiment, but let’s be honest his lot are ALL TOO HUMAN...Rwanda, the Congo and Somalia certainly demonstrate this.
 
Written By: Joe
URL: http://
True.

Animals don’t have the ability to make a moral choice.

This is my objection to calling terrorists not-human as well.
 
Written By: Synova
URL: http://synova.blogspot.com
shark "Dear god, please keep Jackson and Sharpton away from this"
I concur! You know they’ll come to the girl’s “support” as this is obviously the symptom of American institutionalized racism.

The reason that people like Jackson and Sharpton can do their “business” is the same as why there is such a thing as hate crime status.

Political correctness stresses that minorities (unless they are white men) are by nature victims and should be treated as such. Jackson, Sharpton and (mostly liberal) white “friends” of minorities are simply using that to build their case: That minorities are victims of the white mans society!

Further reading
 
Written By: Jon Herstad
URL: http://idioten.blogspot.com
I was half-watching the Texas Chainsaw Massacre a couple days ago, and was thinking, "yeah, right, like there could be a family this crazy."
 
Written By: Harun
URL: http://
From what I know, electrons are color blind. Fire up the electric chair.
 
Written By: jpm100
URL: http://
shark,

Having grown up in West Virginia, I’d seriously doubt that racism wasn’t a large motive (possibly the primary one, though it’s certainly impossible to deny the sick minds involved) for why this went on. There’s a reason why Byrd’s Klan membership hasn’t hurt his senate races; I remember often talking to people when I was in high school (students and teachers) who would essentially serve as apologists for the Klan, and Byrd as a Klan member specifically. I imagine his KKK past probably bumps Byrd’s support every time it’s mentioned on FOX. Not everyone feels this way, but a lot do, probably more than people (from the outside) would believe or (from the inside) would like to admit.

If you drive a little way out of town, you’ll see the "N*****S GET OUT!" signs. The only reason this kind of horrible crap (well, maybe not this bad, but attacks, rapes, etc) doesn’t go on more is the relatively low black population in West Virginia. Because of that low population, sometimes it seems almost as if West Virginians would have just as much of an effect saying "I hate the Lapps" or "I really get sick of the f**kin Tahitians" as the racist crap a lot of them do say.

Not today it doesn’t, though.
 
Written By: A West Virginian
URL: http://
I know I am going to get hit for this one, but I think this whole argument shows the fallacy of injecting race into prosecutions.

In Louisiana, we had several black men who nearly beat a white boy to death. Not only did the media fail to cover the story, but the families of the kids got the prosecution to drop attempted murder charges to simple assault. And still the families cried racism because - shocking - those being prosecuted were black.

Now that the shoe is on the other foot in this case - which I admit is as disgusting as the Louisiana case - I don’t hear anyone crying racism except the victim. Now is that fair? Call me a racist, call me a bigot. But fair is fair, and to treat one defendant who is black one way in a racial case and to treat another defendant who is white in another racial case a different way to me smacks of political correctness gone insane.

Just my thoughts. Sorry if it offends anyone.
 
Written By: James Marsden
URL: http://
"That’s because the animals who did this are not human."

We are the only species that can sink below our nature.

"Animals don’t have the ability to make a moral choice."

...to live like humans. We have the ability to choose to live like animals.
 
Written By: Billy Beck
URL: http://www.two—four.net/weblog.php
I don’t mind they types getting three hots and cot on my dime.
I do. Kill them.
 
Written By: Jordan
URL: http://
One look at the photographs of the defendants and my thought was abject ignorance in combination with meth-amphetamine. The story didn’t mention any drugs. But six people sitting around getting hammered on meth (a very popular and extremely cheap drug) strikes me as a plausible scenario for arriving at the bright idea of "let’s lure someone over here and teach her a lesson." The racist element would of course enhance the grandiosity of the mission. I also smell an inter-generational welfare dependency dimension here as well.

And evil, of course, as the underlying necessary element.

The mother-son, mother-daughter aspect adds an X-Files dimension too.
 
Written By: Martin McPhillips
URL: http://mcphillips.blogspot.com/
There were girls in that group, too, Don.
Synova, yes, I knew there was at least one in that case.

I don’t find it unusual for women to "stand by their men" even when abusing other women. That’s not to say that this sorta atrocity is typical, but in times past it was common to take women captive and enslave them. The women of the tribe would often benifit from the new women slaves, although they might abuse them due to jealousy.
What we *learn* is to NOT be racist. We learn to suppress one survival instinct while we reward the *other* survival instinct, which is, frankly, that we ought to all be making babies together.
Making babies with people who are from a different group is, I suspect, how we are hardwired. That’s why we see mixing such as black men with white women, white men with asian women, etc.
 
Written By: Don
URL: http://
One look at the photographs of the defendants and my thought was abject ignorance in combination with meth-amphetamine. The story didn’t mention any drugs. But six people sitting around getting hammered on meth (a very popular and extremely cheap drug) strikes me as a plausible scenario for arriving at the bright idea of "let’s lure someone over here and teach her a lesson." The racist element would of course enhance the grandiosity of the mission. I also smell an inter-generational welfare dependency dimension here as well.

And evil, of course, as the underlying necessary element.

The mother-son, mother-daughter aspect adds an X-Files dimension too.
I agree to all of that.

There was a similar case (IIRC without any racial aspect) from, I think, Europe. A young woman was held by a group of welfare druggie types, who tortured and raped her over an extended period. They were a mix of men and women as well.
 
Written By: Don
URL: http://
Well that’s a nice sentiment, but let’s be honest his lot are ALL TOO HUMAN...Rwanda, the Congo and Somalia certainly demonstrate this.
Indeed. Also consider the Red Army in Eastern Germany and the Imperial Japanese Army in Nanking.
 
Written By: Don
URL: http://
Well that’s a nice sentiment, but let’s be honest his lot are ALL TOO HUMAN...Rwanda, the Congo and Somalia certainly demonstrate this.
Indeed. Also consider the Red Army in Eastern Germany and the Imperial Japanese Army in Nanking.
Red Army.... those fascists had it coming to them!
Nanking...it NEVER happened, NEVER! That is simply Chinese propaganda designed to prejudice the world against the People of Nihon and their Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere...I mean the Japanese People’s legitimate search for security and peace in the face of Chinese xenophobia, allied with Euro-Centric Imperialism thwarting Japan’s divinely destined economic growth.
 
Written By: Joe
URL: http://
In 1986, a classmate in GEHS used—emphasis on the used—me to pass a note to a classmate.

The classmate was a black girl, and the other was a white boy. I had no reason to think there was enmity between them, reciprocal or otherwise.

On her opening it the note was a drawing of a black figure swinging by a noose from a tree, with hooded characters dancing around it.

It was a check my body couldn’t nearly cash—but I told him they wouldn’t find his body if he did that again. He had about 8 inches and 80 pounds on me...

...I’m really glad he was expelled, cause my dead body would definitely have been the only plausible result of his coming back to school.

The point I want to emphasize is that he got no sympathy from anyone else I knew.

Admittedly, I didn’t run with the red crowd, though.

This is a disgusting crime that McQ brings to out attention. It does not justify "hate crime" provisions, and it does not mean racism of the PC ratified to exist white on black variety is common or not. What I would have to agree on is that racism is more likely to be common in the built up areas of South Charleston, and that frankly there are city blocks there I wouldn’t take a walk in.

Horrible as it is, I do believe this is a one off.

Yours, TDP, ml, msl, & pfpp
 
Written By: Tom Perkins
URL: http://tomdperkins.blogspot.com/
 
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