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Do you care enough to help?
Posted by: McQ on Tuesday, October 30, 2007

The bottom-line on SCHIP funding.

It gives new meaning to the phrase "smoke and mirrors".
 
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Awesome - well done and funny. Well, I guess I mean it WOULD be funny if it wasn’t so true...
 
Written By: meagain
URL: http://
Yes, let’s send American taxpayer money to Iraq to be spent on Iraqi children instead.
 
Written By: David Shaughnessy
URL: http://
Yes, let’s send American taxpayer money to Iraq to be spent on Iraqi children instead.
At least they need the help...David.
 
Written By: Joe
URL: http://
Yes, let’s send American taxpayer money to Iraq to be spent on Iraqi children instead.
At least they need the help...David.
Joe: A curious position for anyone to take, but for an economic libertarian well . . . .


 
Written By: David Shaughnessy
URL: http://
Yes, let’s send American taxpayer money to Iraq to be spent on Iraqi children instead.
At least they need the help...David.
Joe: A curious position for anyone to take, but for an economic libertarian well . . . .
I’m not a big "L" libertarian...and yes they can do with the help, whereas the Frost’s don’t need my help AND in the end S-Chip is going to cost me a WHOLE lot more and do a whole lot less good, than fighting in Iraq.

And no it’s not a curious position to take unless you’re some kind of Paleo-con, Paulista or Lew Rockwell type. I don’t oppose the gub’mint, I just don’t see the gub’mint as the purveyor of all good....just like I don’t oppose McDonald’s I just don’t worship McDonalds either. Each has their place, and each has things they’re good at and things they’re not good at. Gub’mint kills/people breaks things well, provides courts and poh-leece, all things I don’t think McDonalds can or should be doing. In turn, I trust McDonalds to provide me good food at a reasonable price, something that I don’t see the gub’mint doing. But I don’t think a private enterprise court or police system, run by McDonalds, is a workable idea.

Only purists or ideologues are going to buy into a theory that either the State (Marx) or the Private Sector (Rothbard) is the SOLE solution to any problem.
 
Written By: Joe
URL: http://
even then: pointing to what you deem to be a mistake to use to justify another mistake is a logical fallacy
 
Written By: Joel C.
URL: http://
even then: pointing to what you deem to be a mistake to use to justify another mistake is a logical fallacy

That assumes I believe Iraq to be a mistake, which I don’t. So it’s merely evidence when I say Iraq will cost LESS and that S-CHIP will do more harm. I, in fact, mean that Iraq is doubly good, cheaper AND better, than SCHIP. If your comment was addressed to me.
 
Written By: Joe
URL: http://
I don’t oppose the gub’mint, I just don’t see the gub’mint as the purveyor of all good....just like I don’t oppose McDonald’s I just don’t worship McDonalds either. Each has their place, and each has things they’re good at and things they’re not good at. Gub’mint kills/people breaks things well, provides courts and poh-leece, all things I don’t think McDonalds can or should be doing. In turn, I trust McDonalds to provide me good food at a reasonable price, something that I don’t see the gub’mint doing. But I don’t think a private enterprise court or police system, run by McDonalds, is a workable idea.
That is a reasonable and well-articulated political philosophy. It does not, however, explain why we are doing so many things in Iraq for Iraqis that we would not do here for Americans. If Americans need help — however "need help" is defined — they should get it first. Not Iraqis.
Iraq is doubly good, cheaper AND better, than SCHIP
Sorry. You are off the rails there. There is little good and nothing cheap about our presence in Iraq. You may object philosophically to the SCHIP program, or to expanding it, or both, but even granting the discount for moral degradation from government assistance, healthy American children is nothing but good.
 
Written By: David Shaughnessy
URL: http://
healthy American children is nothing but good.
That’s a silly argument, that’s like saying Republicans don’t want clean water. America’s kids ARE healthy, what we are debating is how to best pay for and provide for their care, not their care itself.
It does not, however, explain why we are doing so many things in Iraq for Iraqis that we would not do here for Americans. If Americans need help — however "need help" is defined — they should get it first. Not Iraqis.
Well most folks in America haven’t spent the bulk of their existence under a murderous kleptocracy so they don’t need the assistance we are providing to Iraq. Unless you care to point out the rash of IED/Car Bombings and head choppings afflicting entire states in the US I think it is safe to say the assistance we provide in Iraq is assistance not needed by Americans. But if AQ in Delaware or JAM of Boston is beheading, kidnapping, torturing, bombing, sniping, firing AK’s and RPG’s pretty muuch indiscriminately in Delaware or Boston, Dude, I am down with sending American troops to Dover or Boston, in a heart beat.

Further, if you’d care to point out any Americans that have gone in need BECAUSE the dollars they were entitled to went to some family in Iraq I’d much appreciate it. I have yet to hear any story that says, "The Smith Family in Hoboken was today informed that their WIC and SSI payments were given to Jalal Takriti, instead." The money and assistance to iraq has been on top of, not OUT OF the Federal domestic spending program. You might ahve missed the Medicare Drug Prescription Program or you might ahve missed that Bush is willing to sign an EXPANDED SCHIP Bill, simply no the bill the D-’s keep sending up to him. I don’t see anyone in the US suffering because the US is spending its resources in Iraq. (Please note I consider the Medicare Drug Plan and SCHIP-expaned or otherwise-giant boondoggles that I can’t believe were ever passed.)
 
Written By: Joe
URL: http://
That is a reasonable and well-articulated political philosophy. It does not, however, explain why we are doing so many things in Iraq for Iraqis that we would not do here for Americans. If Americans need help — however "need help" is defined — they should get it first. Not Iraqis.
Well, Iraq isn’t the only place we’re sending our money, is it. Not trying to excuse it on that basis, merely pointing out the obvious so I can indicate I trust the objection about American money being spent for other than Americans extends to all places and times where that occurs, and isn’t a reflection of simple BDS.

Though, the fact that you felt compelled to drag Iraq into the conversation is indicative that it probably is.


 
Written By: looker
URL: http://
That’s a silly argument, that’s like saying Republicans don’t want clean water. America’s kids ARE healthy, what we are debating is how to best pay for and provide for their care, not their care itself.
It’s one thing to want something, quite another to pay the price for it. In the practical world of governance within limited resources, it is typically only whether one is willing to pay the cost that matters. Who is currently paying for the health care of American children without health care insurance? Someone (in America) is. Or else they aren’t getting the proper health care.

As to your point that the Iraq War isn’t affecting domestic spending because Bush is putting the war on America’s credit card, well, first off, I think that is both bad fiscal policy and immoral (making future generations pay for our decisions). Aside from that, I have yet to see a comprehensive accounting of the costs of the Iraq War. If you can direct me to where that information is, I’d be glad to continue the discussion after I review it. Ican assure you, however, that I really don’t expect to find a memo: "The Smith Family in Hoboken was today informed that their WIC and SSI payments were given to Jalal Takriti, instead." Even if it were true.
 
Written By: David Shaughnessy
URL: http://
Well David IF domestic spending WERE being squeezed you’d discover the memo, pretty quickly.
Who is currently paying for the health care of American children without health care insurance?

Uh David You and I are...it’s called:
1) Medicaid; and
2) Increased hospital charges to write off bad debt.
The D-’s wanted to extend the coverage of children AND adults to those making $62,000. In the CHILDREN’S plan...At $62,000 a year no health insurance is a choice

Or else they aren’t getting the proper health care.
It’s OK care, but it costs too much because the point of entry is the ER, not the PCP. You got a dead kid, 90% of the time it’s a parenting problem, not a health care problem.
 
Written By: Joe
URL: http://
Who is currently paying for the health care of American children without health care insurance? Someone (in America) is. Or else they aren’t getting the proper health care.
That’s an unsupportable conclusion. Just because a child isn’t insured doesn’t mean he’s not getting proper health care. My own children rarely see doctors; not because I lack insurance, but because they are healthy. Millions of other children are just like them.
Sorry. You are off the rails there. There is little good and nothing cheap about our presence in Iraq.
Joe didn’t say Iraq was cheap, merely that it was cheaper than SCHIP.
 
Written By: Steverino
URL: http://
Sorry. You are off the rails there. There is little good and nothing cheap about our presence in Iraq. You may object philosophically to the SCHIP program, or to expanding it, or both, but even granting the discount for moral degradation from government assistance, healthy American children is nothing but good.
Ya know, I’ve read Article 1, Section 8 several times and see nothing about health care, or other redistribution schemes, but I have seen something about a military.

As for "government assistance", SCHIP is the end result in which assistance at the point of a gun becomes a "Santa Claus" list of goodies, and results in even the wealthy becomming child-like dependents (can’t give up them toys so as to raise your kids, right?) much like public indoctrination...I mean education, leads to a couple generations of braindead overgrown adolescents from 12 years of childcare.
 
Written By: Sharpshooter
URL: http://
Yes, let’s send American taxpayer money to Iraq to be spent on Iraqi children instead.
i’m not opposed to the notion that attempting to spread liberty abroad is a better investment than spreading socialism at home
 
Written By: meh
URL: http://

 
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