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Students in Iran demonstrate for freedom
Posted by: McQ on Monday, December 10, 2007

Some in Iran "get it" and are making themselves heard:
Students defied a clampdown on protests in Iran yesterday by tearing down the gates of Tehran university.

They chanted slogans against President Ahmadinejad and carried placards saying "Live free or die", "No war, no fascism" and "Women must decide their fate, not the state."
These are the sorts of movements we should be supporting. The protests are in reaction to the state clamping down on dissent. Professors, apparently, joined the student protesters who threw stones at police trying to block them in.

The state's reaction:
The president and his government say they "support free speech and welcome constructive opposition".
Can anyone guess who gets to define "constructive opposition" and "free speech"? And isn't it funny that in both Iran and Venezuela, it is the students leading the protests?
 
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I wish them success, because if they had to emigrate to the US, with a slogan such as "live free or die" they obviously wouldn’t fit into 21st Century mainstream America.
 
Written By: Bilwick
URL: http://
This is exactly why we need to avoid trying to force regime change or go to war. That only helps the extremists. Iran, like Venezuela, will change from within. I’m not surprised that students are leading this — universities and student movements are very often the earliest impetus for real social change.
 
Written By: Scott Erb
URL: http://faculty.umf.maine.edu/~erb/blog.htm
go to war
Again, you must be privy to plans and meetings none of the rest of the country is privy too.

You’re the only one who is consistently talking about going to war with Iran.

 
Written By: looker
URL: http://
I am gladdened to see Iranian students agitating for good ends, although I imagine the consequences of their protests, if they persist in them, as uncertain. A revolution might be borne of it, but it is well beyond me to assess if one would succeed or not.

In spirit they seem worthy of support, but I worry that any good thing said of them by westerners, especially Americans, and especially any material aid that they might receive from foreign quarters would serve more to undermine them by giving the mullahs and president pretenses for deriding the students as puppets or agents of the United States.
 
Written By: Paludicola
URL: http://www.vikinghats.com

You’re the only one who is consistently talking about going to war with Iran
Apparently you haven’t been reading much in the press the last few months, especially from the neo-cons and pro-Israel folk.
 
Written By: Scott Erb
URL: http://faculty.umf.maine.edu/~erb/blog.htm
Apparently you haven’t been reading much in the press the last few months, especially from the neo-cons and pro-Israel folk.
What I pay attention to isn’t the carping of people who don’t have the power to makes decisions about who we do or do not attack.
I pay attention to what the government appears to be doing, because they are in charge of the military that has to make the attack.
I’d say it’s a 98% certainty we’re not going to do any attacking until well after Bush has left office, if ever, unless you have intelligence indicating our military is currently staging for an attack on Iran.

I don’t see any signs of us gearing up for an attack, and didn’t see any signs of that BEFORE the NIE joke was published. Forget what Britain and Israel think of our latest ’intelligence’, you can pretty much guarantee now that we’re not going to launch one until we officially say Iran is on the ’knock it off or else’ list and we haven’t said that, ever.

If you can demonstrate any reason why I’m wrong, please feel free to do so, otherwise I’ll have to conclude you’re just too much into rhetoric and political propaganda.
 
Written By: looker
URL: http://
What I pay attention to isn’t the carping of people who don’t have the power to makes decisions about who we do or do not attack.
Looker, you said I was the only one talking about war with Iran. Yet obviously many people were, which you admit when you say they are "carping" but have no power to make decisions. Yet, since I have no power to make these decisions, then clearly I’m part of that large group of "carping" people. So, in essence, you’ve admitted that you were wrong to say I was the only one talking about it.

I agree that this report has taken the most likely military option — a strike on Iranian nuclear facilities — off the table, at least for now. You apparently have missed a lot of news about how we were positioned to make such a strike possible, and how there was planning for such a strike, and rumors that President Bush wanted such a strike before he left office. Those all may have been false or even misinformation, but clearly the claim that there was "no sign" of the potential of military action is wrong. I think you know that.
 
Written By: Scott Erb
URL: http://faculty.umf.maine.edu/~erb/blog.htm
locally - sorry, locally.
You’re the only one here who consistently talks as if the current administration is about to attack Iran.
I agree, I was wrong to say you’re the only one talking about it without qualifying it.

We’re always planning for such a strike, it’s simple contingency planning.

I don’t buy the rumors that Bush was planning such a strike, he’s not the brightest bulb in the sign, but I think even he understands he doesn’t have nearly enough political capital remaining to pull that off, and certainly not with a Congress that is currently screwing with funding for Iraq.
 
Written By: looker
URL: http://

I don’t buy the rumors that Bush was planning such a strike, he’s not the brightest bulb in the sign, but I think even he understands he doesn’t have nearly enough political capital remaining to pull that off, and certainly not with a Congress that is currently screwing with funding for Iraq.
My opinion of Bush is higher now than probably at any point in his Presidency. I think he’s shown an ability to make some fundamental shifts in policy and tone, and not every President or leader of anything can do that. My opinion of the Vice President, however, remains pretty negative. I also think we’re getting competent work from the Secretaries of Defense and State these days.
 
Written By: Scott Erb
URL: http://faculty.umf.maine.edu/~erb/blog.htm

 
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