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Tell me again they don’t live in the 12th Century
Posted by: McQ on Thursday, February 14, 2008

I had to do a double-take when I read this one:
Human Rights Watch has appealed to Saudi Arabia to halt the execution of a woman convicted of witchcraft.

In a letter to King Abdullah, the rights group described the trial and conviction of Fawza Falih as a miscarriage of justice.

The illiterate woman was detained by religious police in 2005 and allegedly beaten and forced to fingerprint a confession that she could not read.

Among her accusers was a man who alleged she made him impotent.
"She turned me into a newt"

"I got better".

Really - trials and convictions for witchcraft in the 21st century. Even Monty Python couldn't parody that.

I really can't wait until we find an alternative to oil so these creatures can revert back to roaming the desert anonymously inflicting unspeakable atrocities on each other and we won't care a whit.
 
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Now you’ve done it.. given a bunch of nerds the opening to post Monty Python quotes.

"What else floats in water?"

"Bread"
"Apples"
"Very small rocks"
"Mud"
"Churches"


"A duck!"
 
Written By: kevin r
URL: http://
Among her accusers was a man who alleged she made him impotent.
Janet Reno had better cancel any plans to travel to that region.
 
Written By: Steverino
URL: http://
"Grape Gravy"....

 
Written By: Joe
URL: http://
The interesting thing to me is that the early New England witch trials were much more civilized.

Oh, and by 1600 in English law, it was already illegal to beat your wife.
 
Written By: Don
URL: http://
12th Century?

More like the 7th!
 
Written By: SShiell
URL: http://
Replacing oil won’t be stopping Islam at this point, of either the Saudi brand or otherwise.

Europe is undergoing Islamicization. As you can see in the UK they are approaching the second of the three-phase acquisition ceremony. First came broad accomodation of Muslims (including making it a "hate crime" to criticize them). Now comes living under Sharia law (already a reality for matters of family law). Down the road, imposing Sharia law.

Everything’s on schedule. Make that ahead of schedule.
 
Written By: Martin McPhillips
URL: http://mcphillips.blogspot.com/
By the way, if I lived in the U.K. my post just above could easily get me a visit from the Scotland Yard squad that looks into people who "incite racial hatred."
 
Written By: Martin McPhillips
URL: http://mcphillips.blogspot.com/
I really can’t wait until we find an alternative to oil so these creatures can revert back to roaming the desert anonymously inflicting unspeakable atrocities on each other and we won’t care a whit.
Not that I disagree, but aren’t these essentially the same people who war hawks expect to embrace democracy in Iraq, and, you know, let other people have other opinions, and not cut their heads for said other opinions?

I don’t want to kill them, I don’t want to try democratize them, but I, like you, would love to find a way to become disentangled with this part of the world that seems about 800 years behind the rest of the world with respect to civilization.

Individidually, these people can be warm and gracious, but for some reason, as groups they tend toward the abominable. It’s like they don’t respect anything less.





 
Written By: Captin Sarcastic
URL: http://
I really can’t wait until we find an alternative to oil so these creatures can revert back to roaming the desert anonymously inflicting unspeakable atrocities on each other and we won’t care a whit.
Never happen, because even if they drop off of CNN and become dirt poor savages they won’t stay in the desert.

It hasn’t made the news much, but in the last 10 years 5.4 million people have died due to war in the Congo, several million more became illegal immigrants. Obviously none of us really care about what happens in the Congo (they are way too poor and backward), but apparently they care about us enough to travel thousands of miles to come visit. Can we afford to have them bring (like Martin McPhilllips points out) their quaint little witch killing customs to our backyard?

We need to get onboard with the democratisation program the "war hawks" are doing in Iraq and Afghanistan, so that their backward customs can be stamped out at source. Not because we care, but because we never want these things to occur in our towns.
 
Written By: unaha-closp
URL: http://warisforwinning.blogspot.com/
I don’t want to kill them, I don’t want to try democratize them, but I, like you, would love to find a way to become disentangled with this part of the world that seems about 800 years behind the rest of the world with respect to civilization.
Well, we can’t disentangle. We couldn’t with presidents Adams and Jefferson, we sure can’t now.

The correct solution, I think, is a mix of killing and democratize, with more of the latter than the former.
 
Written By: Don
URL: http://
We need to get onboard with the democratisation program the "war hawks" are doing in Iraq and Afghanistan, so that their backward customs can be stamped out at source. Not because we care, but because we never want these things to occur in our towns.


Exactly correct.

And the reason why the Iraq War was likely the correct action. No, it isn’t easy, but what’s our other answer? Withdraw? Islamic terrorists living in Germany came here to kill us because we are the current center of the Western world, not because we are involved in the Middle East.
 
Written By: Don
URL: http://
We need to get onboard with the democratisation program the "war hawks" are doing in Iraq and Afghanistan, so that their backward customs can be stamped out at source.
Yeah, I wanna see logical pretzel you’d have to twist to come out with that bit.

Forcing people to have a say does not mean they will say anything different than have been for the last 1500 years.

They would just have more interesting referendums...

Referendum Hajibibi: We the democracy loving peoples of Islam, in the interest of everyone having a full voice in the laws of our land, do hereby put to democratic vote the following question:

Should infidels have their intestines pulled through their noses and then be beheaded, or should they be beheaded and then have their intestines pulled out of their neck holes?

Vote A for Nose
Vote B for Neck Hole
Vote C for neither of the above

(voting C is automatic qualification for having either A or B performed on you, depending on the outcome of this democratic referendum)



 
Written By: Captin Sarcastic
URL: http://
Well, we can’t disentangle.
Instead of spending trillions trying manage what you think are necessary entanglements, lets invest in a Manhatten project for alternative energy. We are capable, probably more capable of that then making the Middle East into something it just flippin’ doesn’t want to be.

If we could provide for 80% our energy needs with alternative sources, we could tell the Middle East to go pound sand. (pun intended)

 
Written By: Captin Sarcastic
URL: http://
Instead of spending trillions trying manage what you think are necessary entanglements, lets invest in a Manhatten project for alternative energy.
The key problem isn’t oil. It’s the fact that they can’t accept that Christian society so significantly dominates Islamic society.

That’s why we have so much of an issue with 2nd and 3rd gen "Westernized" Muslims. Like those who were setting off bombs in England.

Right now it isn’t clear that the Bush plan in Iraq will work even if we end up with a stable Iraqi democracy. But at least perhaps we can set Iraq up to own it’s own problems and not blame the West.
 
Written By: Don
URL: http://
Forcing people to have a say does not mean they will say anything different than have been for the last 1500 years.

No pretzel, a simple choice. Perhaps they will indeed reject the path followed by the Germans, Japanese or Turks - who when forced did change their ways. You choose to believe that Arabs are incapable of making the same change and I choose to believe they are capable.

If nothing is done they will not change by themselves and your choice is to do nothing.
Instead of spending trillions trying manage what you think are necessary entanglements, lets invest in a Manhatten project for alternative energy.

That’d be the magically fanciful uninvented energy form the fairies use. The one that doesn’t exist in the real world.
We are capable, probably more capable of that then making the Middle East into something it just flippin’ doesn’t want to be.
Oh dear. YOU are capable of inventing a fantasy energy form and THEY are incapable moderating their customs in ways similar to millions of other people. That is some kind of superiority complex.
If we could provide for 80% our energy needs with alternative sources, we could tell the Middle East to go pound sand. (pun intended)
Nope, unless the imagined alternative is unbelievably cost effective it will not come close to the really low cost of oil - which the Chinese will continue to buy. The Arab states really do not need you as a customer, but they’ll still be quite rich and still have these urges.



 
Written By: unaha-closp
URL: http://warisforwinning.blogspot.com/
How dare you insult their religion, you Islamophobe! Don’t you know that the Prophet Mohammad (propellor beanie upon him) himself forbade witchcraft? Its even in the Koran. Mohammad even ordered the executions of Pagan preists because they were casting spells against the early Muslim congregation.

Simply intolerant McQ !!
 
Written By: Jimmy the Dhimmi
URL: www.warning1938alert.ytmnd.com
Those savages! Clearly what this country needs is to amend the constitution to make it more in line with God’s standards. Now what does the bible say about witches again?
 
Written By: Retief
URL: http://
Just for the sake of historical accuracy I would note that in Western Europe that the high point of witch trials (to my knowledge at least) happened in the 17th century and that trials for witchcraft only really became common in the 15th century.
 
Written By: Marcion
URL: http://
That’d be the magically fanciful uninvented energy form the fairies use. The one that doesn’t exist in the real world.
There are lots of theories for innovation of inexpensive energy, you know, like that theory that we could make a atomic bomb...
Leo Szilard was a student of Albert Einstein, who spoke very highly of him. They were the two geniuses. Szilard liked Science Fiction writing, and had read a book named The World Set Free and written by H.G. Wells, the man who began Science Fiction writing. In this book Wells described a process of "atomic disintegration" that unleashed "limitless power" which led to global nuclear war. This book was written in 1913. This book was the fantasy. Szilard promptly went to Ernest Rutherford, who had previously called Atomic Energy "moonshine," and wanted to convince him he was wrong. This didn’t turn out to well, because Szilard got kicked out of Rutherford’s office. But this only made him the more determined. He is also the stubborn man.
Hmm, fantasy becomes reality... where are those fairies?

But you are in good company, with the vaunted New York Times, as one of those who say, this can’t be done...

Robert Goddard suggested people could reach the moon.
His research was ultimately published by the Smithsonian as the classic study, A Method of Reaching Extreme Altitudes, in 1919. There, Goddard argued from a firm theoretical base that rockets could be used to explore the upper atmosphere. Moreover, he suggested that with a velocity of 6.95 miles per second (11.2 kilometers per second), without air resistance, an object could escape Earth’s gravity and head into infinity, or toward other celestial bodies. This became known as the Earth’s "escape velocity." He also argued that humans could reach the Moon using these his techniques.

These ideas became the great joke for those who believed space flight was either impossible or impractical. Some ridiculed Goddard’s ideas in the popular press, which caused the already shy Goddard to become even more so. Soon after the appearance of his publication, he commented that he had been "interviewed a number of times, and on each occasion have been as uncommunicative as possible." The New York Times was especially harsh in its criticisms, referring to him as a dreamer whose ideas had no scientific validity. It also compared his theories to those advanced by novelist Jules Verne, indicating that such musing is "pardonable enough in him as a romancer, but its like is not so easily explained when made by a savant who isn’t writing a novel of adventure." The New York Times questioned both Goddard’s credentials as a scientist and the Smithsonian’s rationale for funding his research and publishing his results in an editorial on January 18, 1920.
I am not talking about fantasy, I am talking about innovation on what has already been devleoped to the point where it can be economically competitive with oil.

John Amidon, a Lt Col in the USAF, has been suggesting this for some time and has done an amazing amount of research on developing such a project.

But hey, go ahead and suggest that we can change the Middle East, but we can’t accomplish incredible technological innovation. In the future, we are going to need someone to laugh about their shortsightedness.

 
Written By: Captin Sarcastic
URL: http://
Given that the earth is round and our economy involves trade with most of the globe, we can’t wall ourselves into Fortress America and let the rest of the world dissolve into chaos. The Islamists will be selling their oil to lots of other countries and using the money for mischief. They did 9-11 with box cutters. I don’t want to wait and see what they’ll do as WMD gets cheaper and easier.

That said, I think a strong policy to develop alternatives to oil is mandatory, starting with lots of nukes. That was one of Giuliani’s big selling points with me.

 
Written By: huxley
URL: http://
Given that the earth is round and our economy involves trade with most of the globe, we can’t wall ourselves into Fortress America and let the rest of the world dissolve into chaos.
There is no reason we could not sell our technology to other countries.

The Middle East could have what they appear to want, Westerners could abandon that region and leave them in their 12th century paradise.

They would no longer have a reason to attack us, since we would no longer need to bother with the affairs of the Middle East.

We are going to have to do it eventually, why not make the investment now, before the lights go off, or the region explodes, and the lights go off anyway.


 
Written By: Captin Sarcastic
URL: http://
Again, if the world dissolves into chaos, what will we be selling to whom?

It’s clear that my understanding of Islam is different than yours. Muslims are not going to stay in the Middle East; they are going to expand. They have almost taken Europe twice and they are now having a third try. In one of Bin Laden’s early messages after 9-11 he complained about the humiliation of Muslims being driven out of Spain in the 15th century. That didn’t have anything to do with the US.

When Muslims have the resources, they return to jihad. They have never lacked for reasons to attack others. In the first century after Muhammad, they conquered one third of the known world. They didn’t do that defensively.

Read their history, read the Qur’an. Their mandate from Allah is to subjugate the world, not just the Middle East.

However, we do agree that the US must develop other energy sources.
 
Written By: huxley
URL: http://
"The illiterate woman"

Obviously both the miscreant witch and the judge were educated in the US, probably Californea.


"Janet Reno had better cancel any plans to travel to that region."

Hillary Clinton also.


"I am not talking about fantasy, I am talking about innovation..."

You forgot to mention Tesla. Will this new, innovative energy source also be ’too cheap to meter’ as nuclear energy is?

"They would no longer have a reason to attack us, since we would no longer need to bother with the affairs of the Middle East."

You actually expect rational conduct from people who believe in witchcraft?
 
Written By: timactual
URL: http://
" Californea"

Oops. I must confess to attending schools in The Golden State myself, in my formative years.
 
Written By: timactual
URL: http://
Westerners could abandon that region and leave them in their 12th century paradise.
I am quite happy with that statement so long as a specific set of retarded (or stupidly naive) westerners weren’t trying to import that paradise here (i.e. the west).

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Front_Page/JB12Aa02.html
 
Written By: capt joe
URL: http://
You forgot to mention Tesla. Will this new, innovative energy source also be ’too cheap to meter’ as nuclear energy is?
Good point, and I am not opposed to nuclear, but I would prefer something that would not be subject to massive NIMBY objection. Everyone wants power, but few want either a nuclear reactor in their neighborhood, or a nuclear waste area in their vicinity. I would suggest that nuclear is a reasonable gap solution, but we need a better one for the long term.
I am quite happy with that statement so long as a specific set of retarded (or stupidly naive) westerners weren’t trying to import that paradise here
I read the article... sick.

Not that this would solve anything, but just for the purpose of codifying Western laws for Muslim immigrants, how about an affidavit they would have to sign when entering a Western country.

"I understand that this nation has laws which may conflict with Muslim culture, and I agree to comply with these laws, and understand that I am free not to enter this country, and my entrance, along with this sworn affidavit, is my acknowledgment that I will comply with laws of this nation even if they are in conflict with my cultural traditions, and further, I will not beat my wife, nor stone to her death for wearing knickers. I further understand that if I attmempt to apply my cultural traditions in defiance of the laws, I may be immediately deported to whatever Godforsaken sandpile from which I came."

 
Written By: Captin Sarcastic
URL: http://
As I see it, we will have to build a fair number of nuclear plants, starting with a few to break the mindset against nuclear, then more. Meanwhile we continue to push to bring the cost of solar down until we can get most of our energy that way. Both of these are already happening. For transport, there are biofuels made from plant biomass.

Energy isn’t an insoluble problem. We’re just too comfortable with what we have now to bother to change. But that discomfort is increasing, e.g. the high price of oil and the dependence on the Middle East, and we will be forced to change, hopefully sooner than later.
 
Written By: huxley
URL: http://

John Amidon, a Lt Col in the USAF, has been suggesting this for some time and has done an amazing amount of research on developing such a project.
Did you read that whole article? It seemed to focus on three things for this grand "Manhattan Project": conservation, hybrid vehicles and ethanol (one subpoint was using biorefineries to produce ethanol from something other than corn). Hardly revolutionary.

Does anyone remember a company called Changing World Technologies? They were developing refineries which would turn biological waste into petroleum. They figured their costs would be about $15/barrel. Then reality set in: their refineries almost closed and the actual production cost was over $80/barrel. And their production quantities weren’t nearly as high as they projected. Oh, and their refineries were belching out some obnoxious-smelling smoke. Needless to say, they are limping along, but not coming close to the waste-to-energy nirvana they had initially predicted.

So, yes, we could spend a lot of money on some wonderful "Manhattan Project" for alternative energies. And probably be no better off.
 
Written By: Steverino
URL: http://
Oh, and Captain? Oil ain’t just for energy; it’s also an essential feedstock for any number of chemicals. So your "magical energy box" wouldn’t get us out of the ME.
 
Written By: SDN
URL: http://
So, yes, we could spend a lot of money on some wonderful "Manhattan Project" for alternative energies. And probably be no better off.
Yeah, what’s the point, let’s just keep everything exactly as it is. I mean, we’re only Americans, so we can’t possibly create a successful project to innovate energy production.

The Manhatten project failed, the Apollo Program failed, we lost WW2, so how could we expect to be successful at this?

What, we were successful in all those things?

But you weren’t here to tell us were destined for failure back then.
Oh, and Captain? Oil ain’t just for energy; it’s also an essential feedstock for any number of chemicals. So your "magical energy box" wouldn’t get us out of the ME.
Oil would drop of the map in pricing when we convert energy needs, we could buy it for next to nothing, and whether the Middles East produced it, or not, we would not have a shortage for those purposes.
 
Written By: Captin Sarcastic
URL: http://
"Oil ain’t just for energy; it’s also an essential feedstock for any number of chemicals. So your "magical energy box" wouldn’t get us out of the ME. "

Not to worry! We will just discover some innovative and exciting technology to convert one element to another. We can call it a Philosopher’s Stone. Fantasy into reality!

Yours,
Pollyanna
 
Written By: timactual
URL: http://
A Manhattan Project for energy reminds me of the big Fifth Generation Computer System initiative the Japanese launched in the 1980s. Their intent was pool their computer science resources and come up with whiz-bang intelligent supercomputers and take over the field. They spent 50 billion yen and it was an abject failure.

The original Manhattan Project (as well as the space program) was an engineering project with a very specific goal based on already existing principles. It was just a question of working out the details. Attacking broad, open-ended problems like energy or computing with a big centralized project will fail. Better to proceed as we are, on a large number of loosely coupled fronts in research and industry.

 
Written By: huxley
URL: http://
The problem has already been solved, so we can all relax. In the 1970’s we were assured fusion energy was only about 20 years away from being a practical source of limitless, inexpensive energy. This energy will be broadcast through the aether by Nikola Tesla’s amazing machines without the need for expensive and inefficient transmission lines. We will soon have the perfect environmentally friendly electric cars, powered by broadcast energy.
 
Written By: timactual
URL: http://
Damned computor blew up.
But hey, go ahead and suggest that we can change the Middle East, but we can’t accomplish incredible technological innovation. In the future, we are going to need someone to laugh about their shortsightedness.
True, one way or the other.

And the thought of you being correct is just too depressing to bear. Unreformed they’ll still be carrying out the low level terrorist activities of right now and if their attitude does not change they will continue. When a dirty bomb is set off in your possible future we can:
A - appease them, but have no economic need to do so; B - attempt to reform them which is "impossible"; C - ignore it and pretend the bombing never occured; D - retaliate (kill them). What would preferable of these options? What options have I missed?

Reforming them is the best possible solution, just as gaining working cold fusion is the best possible solution. Why not try both?
 
Written By: unaha-closp
URL: http://warisforwinning.blogspot.com/

 
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