Florida and Michigan Posted by: McQ
on Thursday, March 06, 2008
Howard Dean, chairman of the DNC, was rather clear and emphatic about how the delegates from FL and MI may be seated at this year's Democratic convention:
"We're glad to hear that the Governors of Michigan and Florida are willing to lend their weight to help resolve this issue. As we've said all along, we strongly encourage the Michigan and Florida state parties to follow the rules, so today's public overtures are good news. The rules, which were agreed to by the full DNC including representatives from Florida and Michigan over 18 months ago, allow for two options. First, either state can choose to resubmit a plan and run a party process to select delegates to the convention; second, they can wait until this summer and appeal to the Convention Credentials Committee, which determines and resolves any outstanding questions about the seating of delegates. We look forward to receiving their proposals should they decide to submit new delegate selection plans and will review those plans at that time. The Democratic Nominee will be determined in accordance with party rules, and out of respect for the presidential campaigns and the states that did not violate party rules, we are not going to change the rules in the middle of the game.
Do-over or appeal. Now frankly, I'm all for a do-over. Since the main complaint was that both states moved their primaries up on the calendar against the express wishes of the DNC, that's now a moot point. So a do-over would be a great solution. And, as is obvious, the dynamic within the race has changed (and the field has slimmed), so both states would become battle royals. That means lots of mud and bunches of money spent.
Which reminds me of the two arguments I see emerging from all of this. One is that this is good for the Republicans. It gives John McCain the time necessary to shore up the Republican base, bone up on the economy, burnish his stump speech and raise money while the Dems bash each other's heads in and spend money on the primary they may need in the general election - all leading to a brokered convention and divided party.
Then there's the argument that the extended primary sharpens and hardens the Dem candidates, prepares them for the general election, keeps them and the party on the front page - while McCain and the Repubs fade to the back pages - and ends up with a possible dream ticket and a stronger party with momentum going into the general election.
I'd guess the truth of the matter is, as usual, somewhere in the middle. But I can't help feel this break for McCain is a good thing in preparation for the general election (if he uses it properly) and I also can't buy into the notion that an extended primary is "all good" for the Dems.
But back to FL and MI. What to do? Make is Super Tuesday III and lump them in with NC. Armageddon for Dems. Someone leaves that particular primary Tuesday the presumptive nominee. And those precious rules will have been followed and the people will have spoken.
Well, except for the fact that the final votes to put the eventual nominee over the top in delegates will still most likely come from the Super Delegates.
I don’t believe it was entirely accidental that several states that were pulled ahead allowed open voting were stripped of their votes. It begged that Democrats would cross-over. It gave McCain strength in states he may not have had. And his come-back was tenuous and just in time for Super Tuesday and in large part due to cross-overs.
Normally if you cross-over you sacrifice your ability to influence the race in your own party. The Democrats took away that sacrifice.
But here, Democrats get to have their cake and eat it too. The one check on doing a cross-over in an open primary is gone completely.
Disenfranchise FL and have Barrack win would be a boon to McCain.
Let them vote again and have Hillary win the nomination would be a boon to McCain as the African American community will feel cheated.
Let them vote again and have Barrack win the nomination and a lot of folks who voted for Hillary the first time will be teed off their vote didnt count the first time and their candidate didnt win.
And what will be the consequences of the cross over vote (republicans voting democratic if a DO over is done.)
It would be great. Rush can go on and encourage Republicans to vote for Obama "just to make things fair".
Talk about rich. Get the popcorn, sit back and laugh. THe best thing for the dems would be for Hillary to take a long walk off a short pier after discovering Bill Cheating again. All their problems solved.
BTW who doesnt think that if Hillary gets desperate enough another Bill Girlfriend problem wont show up so Hillary can be the victim yet again.
Can we start a collection to pay for the Dem Primaries to get done over?
RM — I’ve come around to your position that Hillary is the more dangerous candidate. Obama’s speech the other night makes it clear he’s a rookie, as well as someone who is not proud of America, at least not as millionsof other Americans and myself understand pride.
And if [a young woman] should ever get the chance to travel the world and someone should ask her where is she from, we believe that she should always be able to hold her head high with pride in her voice when she answers, I am an American.
That is the course we seek. That is the change we are calling for.
As opposed to the current darkness of America, where Americans can’t hold their heads high with pride..
When you put this into the context of his wife’s remark (twice) about not being proud of America before her husand’s campaign, Obama’s radical black church, his refusal to wear a flag pin, his links to all sorts of radicals including Weather Underground bombers, the pattern is hard to miss.
One problem with a do-over: who gets to pay for this little soiree?
If Howard Dean wants the Dems to have another election, the DNC, not the long-suffering Florida taxpayer, should pick up the tab.
When the hell did the Democratic party get to demand the expenditure of public funds for their own purposes? The duely elected Florida legislature decided the primary date, and the unelected Democratic National Committee doesn’t get control of the state’s election apparatus. If they don’t like the results, either pay the piper or STFU.
But why should the state ever pay for a political party’s selection process? Thus I think the state legislature shouldn’t get to decide when the selection process occurs.
The corollary to that, for me, is that if the state pays and sets the date, then the DNC (or RNC) does not get to set rules that exclude the result from their process.
I, of course, am shocked that the DNC wants it both ways.
b. Barrack will be schooled in back room politics by the likes of Howard Dean, Nancy Pelosi, and other party bigwigs (elders would be an inappropriate word as it is one that in my mind would give them respect they are not due). He will be promised the spot in 2012 or 2016 (and that promise is as worthless as the air it is spoken with).
c. Hillary will lose by at least 5% popular vote in the general election.
