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So - will this become a campaign issue?
Posted by: McQ on Thursday, March 13, 2008

Or will it become an elephant in the room everyone cautiously ignores? I give you the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, declared spiritual mentor of Barack Obama:



Now, where I come from, that's classic race-baiting.

(HT: McP)
_________

Linked by Like Cooking a Small Fish - Thanks!
 
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Previous Comments to this Post 

Comments
Yes, but you’re white. Blacks are allowed to say stuff like that...
 
Written By: Scott Jacobs
URL: http://
If I can get a tax deduction for donating to his church, why can’t I get one for donating to the Obama campaign? Not a lot of difference in the message.
 
Written By: DIffus
URL: http://
When will it stop being the rich, white man’s fault? Perhaps, one day an African-American will run for President against a caucasian and carry several predominantly white states. Then, this preacher will realize that... Oh wait. Nevermind.
 
Written By: Is
URL: http://
Sometimes i just dunno what to say....just wish i had a platform to criticize people like this where they would actually hear me. Id call him a racist, flat out.
 
Written By: josh b
URL: http://
So - will this become a campaign issue?
Wow. If the Reverend Wright has his way, it already is, I guess.

I’d read through some of the church’s web site previously, but I admit I’m still surprised by this.
 
Written By: Linda Morgan
URL: http://
Obama is not rich and privileged? Jesus was black? Obama sits and listens to that stuff every week and yet doesn’t believe it?
The world is such a confusing place.
 
Written By: timactual
URL: http://
Putting aside the obvious about the reverend, that he’s setting up a black=victim, white=guilty narrative of American life, there’s a more fundamental racialization of religion going on here.

His "Jesus was a black man," his killers "were Romans, who were Italians, who were Europeans, who were white" calling the Romans, again, "rich white people" is a total misuse and misrepresentation of Christianity. Jesus died at the hands of men. Period. For the salvation of all mankind. Period. Believe in it or not, that is the message of Jesus.

In an interview with Sean Hannity, when Hannity asked Wright about the "black values system" and how it would be interpreted if each time the word "black" was used it was replaced with "white," Wright responded along the lines of "we call that Christianity" or "white Christianity."

O.K., so this is not a mainstream black congregation. And if it was, it would be foolhardy to suggest that a mainstream black congregation has no business discussing race. But what Wright is doing is exploiting race and reinterpreting Christianity in terms of race. That is precisely racism, and it is antithetical to Christianity. And you don’t get a free tu quoque because somebody else who was white interpreted Christianity in racial terms.

And in America we are supposed to be in an era of racial reconciliation, not one of division. Nor is that reconciliation going to be solely on the terms of one side. But there is no reconciling in or with Wright’s terms. They are not about reconciliation, even if he went so far as to insist that they are.

So, if Barack Obama goes into this church to do a visit with this congregation on any given Sunday, because its congregants are his constituents, who is to say that he agrees with the message?

But Barack Obama has been a part of this congregation for 20 years. If he doesn’t agree with the racialist message, then why has he stayed that long? I have absolutely no reason, on that basis, to give Obama the benefit of the doubt if he says he "disagrees" with the message. I’m simply not going to buy the "who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes" routine.

If anyone believes that only whites can be racists, because only whites have power, etc., and therefore excuses Wright’s point of view and excuses Obama for condoning it with his presence for two decades, then I think that is a delusional view.

A while back at this blog I said that it will be impossible for Obama to get around the issue of this church and its frank racialist message. We no longer live in a world that is dominated by three TV networks and a handful of big newspapers. Obama has deliberately evaded the truth about this central aspect of his life, and the beliefs implied by his longstanding membership in this congregation, and he expects to skate on it, probably believing that he can finesse it with slick denials or by throwing down the race card. In that regard, he has the Clinton gene.

Democrats, chasing as they always do after the next liberal prince without first taking a close look, have put themselves and the country in a very tight spot with this Obama character. And they leave themselves with only the horrible Clintons as an alternative, the Clintons who Democrats have just figured out are rotten people.

The consequences of this entire sad episode of hero worship mixed with race and populism could be far worse than anyone might even want to contemplate.
 
Written By: Martin McPhillips
URL: http://mcphillips.blogspot.com/
He ain’t white. He ain’t rich and he ain’t privileged.
One out of three ain’t bad.

From Mr McPhillips:
O.K., so this is not a mainstream black congregation.
It’s not very far at all from being mainstream black religion.
 
Written By: Arcs
URL: http://
Arcs:
It’s not very far at all from being mainstream black religion.
"Black religion?" If there is such a thing, then Rev. Wright could approach the "mainstream" of that.

But the terms I used were "mainstream black congregation," meaning of a Christian denomination, and a "black Christian congregation" does not equal a "black religion."

Christianity is not a black religion, it is a universal religion, preached to all people. When black folks congregate together to practice that religion it does not ipso facto become a "black religion." Anymore than when Poles congregate together to practice Catholicism it becomes a "Polish religion."

Wright’s congregation is not a mainstream black congregation of a Christian church.
 
Written By: Martin McPhillips
URL: http://mcphillips.blogspot.com/
Got some good points about Hillary though.

Still, Jesus was a black man? Who knew?
Wonder how this guy feels about JOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOs, and I wonder if JOOOOOOOOS know they’re, um, black. Or was that just Jesus who was black?
(another point might be to wonder about the color of a man’s skin as opposed to the content of his character if we’re worrying about what color Jesus might have been, but that was another Reverend who’s dream is clearly dead)

Kinda funny hearing about Jesus not letting hatred dampen his hope because I think the Rev is hatin on some folks.

Obama prolly ought to um, disavow all knowledge of this one eh?
 
Written By: looker
URL: http://
looker:
Obama prolly ought to um, disavow all knowledge of this one eh?
Too late for that.

He’s going to have to try to play a race card the size of LAX to bull his way out of this dilemma.

He’ll need to play it off a backflip cognitively dissonant double-mindf*ck, just like the Clintons would.

Think he’ll get away with it? I don’t.
 
Written By: Martin McPhillips
URL: http://mcphillips.blogspot.com/
No, this one is tough to escape if it gets a broader audience.
He’s not going to have any choice but to 86 this guy or get dragged into the deep water himself.

I’m not religious, feel like I’m just slightly right of center, like Obama, but this is too much even for me to just gave a pass on.

The ’lovin rev’ is hatin on people who are hatin on Obama and as we teach the kids, two wrongs don’t make a right.
 
Written By: looker
URL: http://
What a vile man this preacher is! This is exactly what I expected when I went to the church website and start reading through its pages.

It’s a disaster for Obama the Great Uniter all right. He’ll be able to disavow this to some of the people some of the time, not enough to get elected in November.
 
Written By: huxley
URL: http://
looker:
feel like I’m just slightly right of center, like Obama,
National Journal gives Obama a 100% liberal rating, the highest in the U.S. Senate.
 
Written By: Martin McPhillips
URL: http://mcphillips.blogspot.com/
"I’m not religious, feel like I’m just slightly right of center, like Obama,"
Uh, what? The only thing Obama is right of is his left hand.
 
Written By: Grimshaw
URL: http://
Martin — Well said, as usual. I would add that not only did Obama choose this church to be his spiritual home and this race-baiting pastor to be his spiritual mentor, but Obama is also, as a long-time prominent and powerful member of the church, responsible for its message. If he truly disagreed with that message, he could have lobbied to change that message.

I attend a progressive Christian church. I got tired of hearing anti-Bush, anti-Iraq War attacks in the sermons, I got tired of the church mailing list being used for anti-war complaints and organizing. I drew the iine when the anti-war folks succeeded in getting my church to sign a petition against the war.

So, a few other conservatives and myself started speaking up to the pastors and debating on the mailing list. We didn’t want the church to support the war, we just wanted them to get the politics out of our church. After a year or so we succeeded.

This is what Obama could have done at Trinity United Church in Christ, if he truly disagreed and if he thought it were a significant disagreement.
 
Written By: huxley
URL: http://
Every time anybody brings up Obama’s religious ties or anything having to do with it, there will be screams of racism. In fact, with the last few days in maind, anytime anybody criticizes Obama for anything, there will be screams of racism.
 
Written By: SShiell
URL: http://
Mr McPhillips:

Come live in Mississippi for a few years and then maybe you and I can talk about black religion. As a matter of fact, live anywhere you like in the Plantation Belt.

looker sez:
He’s not going to have any choice but to 86 this guy or get dragged into the deep water himself.
Nah. He gets a pass on this sort of racism because he ain’t white.
 
Written By: Arcs
URL: http://
Wright’s congregation is not a mainstream black congregation of a Christian church.
This really needs to be emphasized.

Obama’s church bears about as much relationship to mainstream Christianity as the Nation of Islam does to mainstream Islam. It’s more of radical black political movement masquerading as a mainstream religion.

Note that they characterize themselves blacks first and Christian second: "Unashamedly black and unapologetically Christian."

Frankly I have difficulty understanding a church that emphasizes the black community and the African homeland as Christian.
There is no longer Jew or Greek, there is no longer slave or free, there is no longer male and female; for all of you are one in Christ Jesus.

Galatians 3:28
 
Written By: huxley
URL: http://
huxley:
What a vile man this preacher is!
I think it gets worse than what you see in that video. The ideological kinship with the NOI is more important than the difference between Christianity and Islam, and that kinship isn’t about universal mankind.
 
Written By: Martin McPhillips
URL: http://mcphillips.blogspot.com/
Arcs — How many black churches in your experience include a statement of black values that reads as though it were written by Angela Davis or Malcolm X?
 
Written By: huxley
URL: http://
Even if this doesn’t become an issue, this will DEEPLY wound Obama, especially in a General election if he gets there, if the clip really circulates (and Limbaugh is playing it now, that’s that)

Buh-bye Barry Obama.

 
Written By: shark
URL: http://
PS-

Just saying once more, the main problem Black America has.......is black America.

The WHite man stopped being their problem a long time ago.
 
Written By: shark
URL: http://
Arcs:
Come live in Mississippi for a few years and then maybe you and I can talk about black religion.
I’d love to visit Mississippi, but in lieu of that immediate possibility, if you know of any church websites that show teachings like those espoused by Rev. Wright’s congregation, I’d love to see them.

This guy started (or maybe it was an immediate predecessor, but I think it was Wright) this congregation in 1961, basing it on an Afrocentrist dogma claiming something like 400 year old roots.

I’ve hear a good deal of preaching from the pulpits of black churches over time, and I’ve heard the subject of race come up, as it undoubtably will, but Wright’s approach to race is way different from anything I’ve heard from other black congregations.

The emphasis on Afrocentric history along with the disparagement of things "European" and "white" has a very specific resonance to it, as does something quite different, which would be a black congregation where the Gospel is preached without the Afrocentric dogma.

At the very least the congregation of Rev. Wright is not the congregation of Rev. King.
 
Written By: Martin McPhillips
URL: http://mcphillips.blogspot.com/
Prof. Erb — Obama is a very vulnerable candidate on several fronts. Even if Obama manages to keep his cool without a Howard Dean scream, his candidacy can implode in many ways, leaving the supers to give the nomination to Hillary.

If Obama’s campaign implodes in a really destructive way, Hillary may not even lose that many black votes, though enough to make winning in November pretty difficult.

I do think that if Americans were exposed directly to Rev. Wright or his church’s Black Value System, most Americans would reject Obama as a suitable candidate for president.
 
Written By: huxley
URL: http://
If anyone believes that only whites can be racists, because only whites have power, etc., and therefore excuses Wright’s point of view and excuses Obama for condoning it with his presence for two decades, then I think that is a delusional view.
And a distinctly minority view, when it comes to what voters think.
It’s a disaster for Obama the Great Uniter all right. He’ll be able to disavow this to some of the people some of the time, not enough to get elected in November.
This is the writing on the wall. I’ve never believed Obama could win the general but now I have trouble seeing how any but his most purblind supporters could entertain the least hope. Surely the big wigs in the party see what Wright’s shoving plainly in front of their faces. And just imagine what else he’s liable to say in these months going into the convention.

This is going to be good for at least a degree or two of real AGW this summer.
 
Written By: Linda Morgan
URL: http://
No no guys, I said, or meant, I like the guy, not I’m like him or he’s like me.

I know he’s more than a bit left of where I’d like to see the country.
 
Written By: looker
URL: http://
And I’m not thinking of the black vote for ’the pass’ on this. My point of stating where I stand is I’m not a religious sort of white guy worried about a black President who might attend a church that had links to reverse racisim.
And even I had problems with this speech and see no particular reason to think it’s an aberration.

So my point is where Shark’s point is, this is a problem for the general election WHEN it gets out. People who weren’t thinking of themselves as ’white’ voters are suddenly going to realize that’s what they are and that it was someone on Obama’s side who decided to make it an issue when they weren’t seeing it that way to start with.
This is like Willy Horton, where I didn’t know a damned thing about Willy Horton other than he was a criminal who’d been released to commit crime again, and that was enough for me. I didn’t KNOW he was black until the Democrats told me he was, while they were trying to play the racism card on the commercial.

So too with Obama’s church, I don’t necessarily hold him directly accountable for what his church is saying, but I have to presume this video is not a unique instance, and that Obama STILL goes to this church, rather than distancing himself from it. Clearly I take a bit more convincing than some because I’m fairly agnostic, but I don’t think a person is always necessarily exactly on the guidebeam set by his church (no, I won’t go on crusades because the Pope tells me to). You more religious guys, who frankly sound a little scary to me at times, have always seen Obama’s church differently than I did (past tense). You were right, I was wrong, 10 points for you.

Yet in this case, I have to agree, this guy in the video is practicing race baiting and unless Obama distances himself from THIS I have to question his judgement and from there wonder what kind of President he’d make. In short, this guy just burned the pass I was giving Obama, and I don’t think I’ll be the only white person (now that I know we care I AM one) who feels that way, because there’s just no excuse for this.


 
Written By: looker
URL: http://
Wait ... I thought the latest wingnut meme is that Obama is a Muslim. I just can’t keep up with you guys anymore.

In any event, this is old news. Part of the kitchen sink strategy. Hell, even the wingnuts favorite evangelicals, Robertson and Falwell said the same thing. And Robertson beat GHW Bush in Iowa.

At the rate this is going, if Obama wins the nomination, by October the "N" word will become part of the acceptable campaign lexicon among the GOP.

Oh, and McCain’s favorite preacher Hagee is a rabid anti-Semite and rabidly anti-Catholic too. But that doesn’t matter, of course. Even though McCain actively sought the endorsement of this man.

So why aren’t wingers outraged at McCain for seeking out the endorsement? Why haven’t those who have posted here expressed similar sentiments about McCain?

The answer is obvious, isn’t it?

 
Written By: mkultra
URL: http://
This stuff has been out in the MM for months, it’s a dead horse, but keep trying to beat it back to life.

It comes down to this, unless you get video of Obama saying this stuff, people are just not going to turn against him on the basis of what his minister (or spiritual mentor) says.

The people who are flogging this nag are not opposed to Obama because of his church, his church is just what they hope will cause others to turn away from him. These people would oppose him if he were members of their own church, and the people who do or are potenntially willing to support Obama are just not going to accept putting Wright’s words in Obama’s mouth.

 
Written By: Captin Sarcastic
URL: http://
TwitUltra, did you bother to watch the video or are you on kamikaze autopilot posting mode as usual.

If Hagee sounds like this about JOOOOOOOOOs and Catholics, McCain has a big problem too.

Too bad my current third alternative is Satan.


Cap, I was with you a while back on Obama and his church and all, but this is a recent video based on the context of the sermon. This isn’t old news, it’s current news.

 
Written By: looker
URL: http://
I’m not saying Obama said this too, I’m saying he’s going to have to respond to it based on his position vis a vis Wright.
 
Written By: looker
URL: http://
Wait ... I thought the latest wingnut meme is that Obama is a Muslim. I just can’t keep up with you guys anymore.
Please show where anyone commenting on this blog has said Obama’s a Muslim.

And I have a good idea why you can’t keep up with us....
 
Written By: Steverino
URL: http://
In any event, this is old news. Part of the kitchen sink strategy. Hell, even the wingnuts favorite evangelicals, Robertson and Falwell said the same thing. And Robertson beat GHW Bush in Iowa.
And apparently the whole country is full of wingnuts, based on Robertson’s landslide win in the general election that year. Oh, wait....

There are a lot of evangelicals in Iowa. They tend to vote for evangelicals when offered such a candidate. It’s not indicative of how the rest of the Republican Party votes, or even how conservatives in general vote.
At the rate this is going, if Obama wins the nomination, by October the "N" word will become part of the acceptable campaign lexicon among the GOP
Care to put your money where your cavernous mouth is on this one? This would be the same GOP that called Colin Powell a house negro and Condoleezza Rice "brown sugar"...oh, wait, it was Democrats saying those awful things....Whatever, I will bet you that you are wrong on this point. And I’m sure you won’t have the courage to admit you’re wrong when proved so.
 
Written By: Steverino
URL: http://
Cap, I was with you a while back on Obama and his church and all, but this is a recent video based on the context of the sermon. This isn’t old news, it’s current news.
The video is recent, but the meme is old. Are you making the point that vide will help the old meme to gain traction?

It’s possible, but I don’t see it happening. Guilt by association can work as an oppo tactic, but people really have to hate the associate, and with Wright, though most people would disagree with him, just doesn’t inspire hate. He’s a minor league black Jerry Falwell, preaching exclusion and the righteousness of his congregation and the evils of all the others.

Consider the hateful things that white evangelicals have said, and they get invited to the White House. It’s just got no legs.

I guess we need to see what actual current or potential Obama supporters make of this. So far, they seem to be considering this an attempt at a dirty trick by either Republicans or Hillary supporters.

I am no less (or more) likely to vote for Obama based on this, and I am not a committed Obama voter.

I also think it is a bad precedent to take the words spoken in a candidates church and attempt to paint them with attitudes that they have never espoused.

Where is the bottom of this gutter?
 
Written By: Captin Sarcastic
URL: http://
I also think it is a bad precedent to take the words spoken in a candidates church and attempt to paint them with attitudes that they have never espoused.
I agree, I think this is the point you and I were making several weeks ago when the church issue came up - to whit, it wasn’t anything Obama said, it was his church ’values’ document, or whatever was being offered as evidence of his racism when no other evidence was present.

This too does not prove Obama’s a racist, but if it gains enough attention he’s going to have to make a comment on this image and sermon here, ’no comment’ is not going to cut it in the combustible atmosphere of the current ((Dem vs Dem) vs McCain) environment.

so, yes, I think
...making the point that vide will help the old meme to gain traction?
is where I’m going with it.

It all depends on the presentation of course, and someone is going to have to work the context, but I can easily see them (whoever they are) using this.

Where’s the bottom? Good heavens, I can never tell, certainly there’s been no bottom for the last 4 Presidential terms.


 
Written By: looker
URL: http://
I also think it is a bad precedent to take the words spoken in a candidates church and attempt to paint them with attitudes that they have never espoused.
How long would you attend a church or organization where the leaders consistently espoused white racism or anti-semitism?

No, if you choose to associate for twenty years with an organization that espouses things you dislike you become somewhat responsible for those things, especially if you aspire to be a moral and political leader.
 
Written By: huxley
URL: http://
How long would you attend a church or organization where the leaders consistently espoused white racism or anti-semitism?

No, if you choose to associate for twenty years with an organization that espouses things you dislike you become somewhat responsible for those things, especially if you aspire to be a moral and political leader.
DING DING DING DING WE HAVE A WINNAH!

Hey, lefties shouldn’t get all upset, these are exactly the same tactics they’ve used to gotcha the GOP all these years.

Now STFU and suffer.

Racial politics come home to roost.

I love it.

Both Ferraro and Obama have been revealed as racists now.

This is great!
 
Written By: shark
URL: http://
This is the point you were making before - fine, understood. But that doesn’t make him a racist any more than my being born a Catholic and going to church every sunday for 18 years made me hate jews/protestants/muslims, believe that the Pope is actually infallible or that birth control is the tool of Satan.
If you don’t see that, I can’t help you.

I would like, based on this recent lovely video, for him to consider directly saying he appreciates the rev’s intentions with respect to trying to ’help’ him, but that the sentiments leave a lot to be desired and he feels it necessary at this time to distance himself from them.
 
Written By: looker
URL: http://
I would like, based on this recent lovely video, for him to consider directly saying he appreciates the rev’s intentions with respect to trying to ’help’ him, but that the sentiments leave a lot to be desired and he feels it necessary at this time to distance himself from them.
Also maybe fire him from his role with the campaign?

But honestly, it’s just false. He’d be a bigger hypocrite to distance himself from Rev. Hatemonger NOW, after all this time, when he damn well knows what this fool has been spewing for years, and it didn’t ever bother him.


The irony of course, is that I believe this is the clown who originated "The Audacity of Hope" line that Obama titled his book after.

Even that, at the end, is a fraud.


 
Written By: shark
URL: http://
the people who do or are potenntially willing to support Obama are just not going to accept putting Wright’s words in Obama’s mouth.
But neither are they going to accept that Wright’s extreme and very impolitic views aren’t approved by a man who used the title of one of Wright’s sermons for both his 2004 DNC keynote speech and his memoir.

The association is long and strong and Wright seems determined to make it a decisive factor in what will surely prove to be Obama’s defeat. Hell’s bells, it sounds like he hasn’t given up on finding some way to lose the poor schmuck the nomination. Then he can really rail about what a god-forsaken bunch of racist slave-traders Americans are.

 
Written By: Linda Morgan
URL: http://
So, when a Republican gives a speech at Bob Jones University, he’s a racist. But when a Democrat goes to this church for 20 years, he’s not a racist.

Oh, and here’s something about Hagee:
Hagee has denounced replacement theology, believing that chapters 9, 10 and 11 of the book of Romans teach that the Jewish people continue to have favor with God by the election of grace and as a people of the covenant their salvation is not dependent on belief in Jesus Christ. He believes that the Bible commands Christians to support Israel and the Jewish people
That’s from Wikipedia, which lists The Jerusalem Post and the book All Roads Lead to Jerusalem as sources for this paragraph.

If this is true, it doesn’t sound anti-Semitic to me.


 
Written By: Steverino
URL: http://
looker — I’m not saying that Obama is a racist. I don’t think anyone else here is either. Frankly it’s hard for me to tell exactly where Obama stands on any number of things beyond that he is for hope and change.

However, this isn’t about religious doctrine such as papal infallibility, and Obama isn’t just some guy born into the Catholic Church and sitting in the pew who only knows the pope from photographs in the newspapers.

Obama chose this fringe, race-based church as his spiritual home and he chose this pastor as his personal, spiritual mentor. Obama took the title of his book and some of his campaign rhetoric from Rev. Wright.

There are plenty of other churches and other Christians Obama could have chosen. The vast majority of churches and Christians don’t involve race-baiting loons like Wright. Obama bears responsiblity here. At the very least his judgment in choosing his companions and influences is poor.
 
Written By: huxley
URL: http://
mkultra,

This is Clinton vs. Obama - which one are you calling a wingnut?
 
Written By: unaha-closp
URL: http://warisforwinning.blogspot.com/
"His "Jesus was a black man," his killers "were Romans, who were Italians, who were Europeans, who were white""

Well, that is just plain ignorant. Everyone knows it was the Jews who killed Jesus, and that Jews are not real white men.
 
Written By: timactual
URL: http://
looker — I’m not saying that Obama is a racist. I don’t think anyone else here is either
I am.

Absolutely 100% I am calling Obama a racist. I’m using the exact same criteria that anyone on the left uses to destroy anyone on the right, when they have the chance.

Obama meets the requirements.

Baracist Obama.
 
Written By: shark
URL: http://
"He’d be a bigger hypocrite to distance himself from Rev. Hatemonger NOW, after all this time, when he damn well knows what this fool has been spewing for years, and it didn’t ever bother him."

He could always say he slept through the sermons. A little embarrassing, perhaps, but not uncommon.


" But that doesn’t make him a racist any more than my being born a Catholic and going to church every sunday for 18 years made me hate"

But when you became a man, you put away childish things, eh?
If you continued to go to the same church for 20 more years as an adult, you could fairly be said to believe in Catholic doctrine. It is surprising to me that, as a politician, he did not understand the ramifications of such dogma. I don’t think he is that dumb. I think he believes.
 
Written By: timactual
URL: http://
Absolutely 100% I am calling Obama a racist. I’m using the exact same criteria that anyone on the left uses to destroy anyone on the right, when they have the chance.
So that makes you, what? ... No better than they are?

Say it aint so, shark... Say it aint so.
 
Written By: PogueMahone
URL: http://
If you continued to go to the same church for 20 more years as an adult, you could fairly be said to believe in Catholic doctrine.
I’m not so sure about that, tim. My friend considers herself a devout Catholic, has been since her childhood, and she attends mass every Sunday with her children in tow. Yet she has very socially liberal stances on things like gay marriage, abortion, premarital sex and the like.

I have no idea what that means. Is she a devout Catholic? Will she burn in hell?
Personally, I think all you religious nuts are... well...

Nuts.

Cheers.
 
Written By: PogueMahone
URL: http://
If you continued to go to the same church for 20 more years as an adult, you could fairly be said to believe in Catholic doctrine.
I’m with Pogue on this one, but I’ll probably be squattin next to him on the coals.

 
Written By: looker
URL: http://
Care to put your money where your cavernous mouth is on this one? This would be the same GOP that called Colin Powell a house negro and Condoleezza Rice "brown sugar"...oh, wait, it was Democrats saying those awful things....Whatever, I will bet you that you are wrong on this point. And I’m sure you won’t have the courage to admit you’re wrong when proved so.
Weird, which democrats said that? A senator? Congressman? How about a governor?

No - it’s the same GOP that was home to Trent Lott, the US Senator who lamented that America didn’t go segregationist back in ’48. It’s the same GOP that was home to George Allen, a US Senator who referred to a person of color at a political rally using a term for monkey.

Nice try there.
If this is true, it doesn’t sound anti-Semitic to me.
Really? Hagee has said that Jewish people are responsible for their own persecution because they accepted a false god. Now, to me, that’s the very same rationale that anti-Semites have used for centuries to jutify their persecution of Jewish people.

Oh, and the Catholic Church is the "Great Whore." I bet you didn’t know that.

Now, McCain has said that he doesn’t agree with everything Hagee has had to say. (Obama, by contrast, has been more vehement in his disagreement with Wright.) But McCain still went on to publicly accept his endorsement, even defending some of Hagee’s remarks as being taken out of context.

Yet McCain has not been called out by FOX, or ABC, or any of the MSM? Why?

Again, the answer is obvious. Just compare Hagee and Wright, McCain and Obama. What possible difference could there be between these men?
 
Written By: mkultra
URL: http://
I’m with Pogue on this one, but I’ll probably be squattin next to him on the coals.
I’d like nothing more, looker... but I’m afraid I’m scheduled to be the entertainment.
It’s so hot down here.

How hot is it?

It’s so hot, that the trees down here are whistling for dogs.

...

Hello...

Is this thing on? [tap tap]
Two drink minimum you understand. Be sure to tip your waitress.

Cheers.
 
Written By: PogueMahone
URL: http://
I’m not so sure about that, tim. My friend considers herself a devout Catholic, has been since her childhood, and she attends mass every Sunday with her children in tow. Yet she has very socially liberal stances on things like gay marriage, abortion, premarital sex and the like
.

Exactly, people may or may not share the political views of their churches, but when someone goes to a church, even for a lifetime, it is not a tacit agreement with the political views of the church leaders.

As I have said all along, when someone gets a quote from Obama saying these things, it will be relevant, absent that quote, it’s just an attempt to SAY that Obama has views that he has NEVER espoused. And Obama HAS said that he has many disagreements with the view of Wright, why would anyone think this is NOT one of those areas where he disagrees?

I am picturing mcPhillips beating a dead horse in a thunder storm, all inside a teapot.





 
Written By: Captin Sarcastic
URL: http://
"Personally, I think all you religious nuts are... well..."

And personally I think that all you folks who assume that someone is a religious nut because they make a comment about religion are....well...stupid.

"it is not a tacit agreement with the political views of the church leaders."

People are, justifiably, judged by the company they keep. Of course it is a tacit agreement. Why else would he continue to go there? If he is so lacking in principals that he tolerates such remarks and, presumably, contributes financially to support them, then he has earned any condemnation he gets.
 
Written By: timactual
URL: http://
Easy Pistol,
I didn’t assume you were a religious nut.
 
Written By: PogueMahone
URL: http://
If an American politician sits in a church hearing his spiritual mentor, preach "God damn America" in one way or another for twenty years without saying boo about it, he has disqualified himself for the presidency as far as I’m concerned.

There is no coming back from this. He either agrees or is spineless or is utterly cynical, any one of which indicates he is unfit to lead America.

 
Written By: huxley
URL: http://
So, mkultra, you aren’t going to take my bet that your claim about the N word being accepted part of GOP lexicon by November?

Figured you’d chicken out.
Really? Hagee has said that Jewish people are responsible for their own persecution because they accepted a false god.
No, that’s not quite what he said. He said the Jews had disobeyed their covenant to obey the one true God. This still doesn’t prove the virulent anti-semitism you claim, especially in the light of the quote I posted earlier (which you conveniently ignored).

I don’t like Hagee, but deliberately mischaracterizing his statements isn’t a good way to prove your point.


 
Written By: Steverino
URL: http://
, he has disqualified himself for the presidency as far as I’m concerned.
As if having the D didn’t already do that.
without saying boo about it,
Why do you assume he hasn’t said boo?







 
Written By: Captin Sarcastic
URL: http://
Exactly, people may or may not share the political views of their churches, but when someone goes to a church, even for a lifetime, it is not a tacit agreement with the political views of the church leaders.
So, what does it say when a candidate gives that pastor a job in his campaign? Obama himself admits that the pastor has a significant role in his life.

This is more than a case of hearing sermons for 20 years.
 
Written By: Steverino
URL: http://
No - it’s the same GOP that was home to Trent Lott, the US Senator who lamented that America didn’t go segregationist back in ’48.
Lott didn’t say a thing about segregation. At most, Lott was guilty of trying to say something nice about a colleague on his 100th birthday, and lost his job because of it. This incident was so overblown by the press, it boggles the mind.
It’s the same GOP that was home to George Allen, a US Senator who referred to a person of color at a political rally using a term for monkey.
"Macaca" isn’t a term for "monkey". It doesn’t mean anything at all. I read your comment to the guy in the cubicle next to mine. He’s from India (same as the target of the "macaca"), and he laughed at the thought that he’s a "person of color".


 
Written By: Steverino
URL: http://
Why do you assume he hasn’t said boo?
Sarcastic — Because if Obama had, he would have mentioned it, not this lame "I have some disagreements" piffle that we hear from Obama, now that the heat is on and people are shoving microphones in his face and Obama has to say something.

If you attend a church and you don’t like its political message, you can say so. It’s not like objecting to the Nicene Creed.

Nothing stopped Obama from objecting to his pastor’s anti-American rants. But he didn’t. He didn’t change churches, he didn’t stop seeking Wright’s counsel, he didn’t stop giving the church money, he didn’t stop sending his children to that church to hear that pastor speak.

Obama either agrees or he is spineless or he is utterly cynical.
 
Written By: huxley
URL: http://

 
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