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Obama and the first law of holes
Posted by: McQ on Thursday, March 20, 2008

As in he needs to heed it:
610 WIP host Angelo Cataldi asked Obama about his Tuesday morning speech on race at the National Constitution Center in which he referenced his own white grandmother and her prejudice. Obama told Cataldi that "The point I was making was not that my grandmother harbors any racial animosity, but that she is a typical white person. If she sees somebody on the street that she doesn't know (pause) there's a reaction in her that doesn't go away and it comes out in the wrong way."
Really?

Is that what a "typical white person" does?
 
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Previous Comments to this Post 

Comments
Indeed.
And all the arguments about how Wrights views are not Obama’s, and that they’re not working from the same racist stereotypes, just got blown out of the water.

Again.

 
Written By: Bithead
URL: http://bitsblog.florack.us
Eff you, Senator.

I freaking DARE you to come to my town in IL for a speech. I will find a way to speak my mind to you, you racist pile of crap.
 
Written By: Scott Jacobs
URL: http://
Scott, you’re WHITE aren’t you? your anger is SO white....
 
Written By: Joe
URL: http://
No, my anger is more of a deep, pulsing red color...

My skin, however, is indeed quite white...
 
Written By: Scott Jacobs
URL: http://
Values spoken without actions taken are just slogans. Values are not just words. They’re what we live by. They’re about the causes we champion and the people we fight for.John Kerry
 
Written By: Neo
URL: http://
Well, one good thing can come out of this. It can finally put to rest the idea that a candidate who’s black (e.g. Jesse Jackson) is rejected because of their blackness. Now we have evidence that it’s the extreme position associated with some black people that’s the turnoff. Obama was pretty popular before he became (in the public’s mind) associated with the black supremacist position, but he was still black at that time.
 
Written By: Wacky Hermit
URL: http://organicbabyfarm.blogspot.com
It can finally put to rest the idea that a candidate who’s black (e.g. Jesse Jackson) is rejected because of their blackness.
Won’t happen, that’s too complex. It’ll be easier once the dust has settled to just blame it on his skin color.
 
Written By: looker
URL: http://
No, my anger is more of a deep, pulsing red color...
Oh geeze, now you’re bringing native americans into it....
 
Written By: shark
URL: http://
So black people don’t do that sort of thing when strangers walk by? Jeramaiah Wright’s comments were as innocuous as a typical person having a natural fear of strangers?
 
Written By: Jimmy the Dhimmi
URL: www.warning1938alert.ytmnd.com
Time to strike the colors on the good ship Obama. It’s been disabled by a self-inflicted wound.
 
Written By: Steverino
URL: http://
"Well, one good thing can come out of this. It can finally put to rest the idea that a candidate who’s black (e.g. Jesse Jackson) is rejected because of their blackness....but he was still black at that time. "

I hate to break the news to you, but there ain’t no way the Wrights, Sharptons, etc. aren’t gong to milk this for all they can. On the contrary, this is proof positive that Amerika is a racist country. Once we bigots found out he was only acting white, but thought black, it was all over. Like OJ, he was an honorary white until he got uppity and forgot his place.



"So black people don’t do that sort of thing when strangers walk by?"
 
Written By: timactual
URL: http://
On the contrary, this is proof positive that Amerika is a racist country.
Yeah .. those racist Democrats wouldn’t dare deny Obama the nomination now.
 
Written By: Neo
URL: http://
It’s pretty clear that typical white people do show more fear of strange blacks than they do of other whites, and they do this more often than black people. It’s not something it makes sense to deny. I think some people don’t understand the level of continuing racism in our society. I think the reaction against Wright is proof that some people want to deny the racial divisions and the sad history of race relations in the US and pretend that everyone is equal.
 
Written By: Scott Erb
URL: http://faculty.umf.maine.edu/~erb/blog.htm
Why didn’t he just say "typical M F***ing Honkey". It’d be more consistent with the Wrightelian Wrhetoric he’s been swallowing whole for 20 years. I suspect Obama is a conflicted spirit that doesn’t know who’s right, his Grandmother or his Uncle Jeremiah.
 
Written By: RiverRat
URL: http://
This latest gaffe by Obama reminds me of Ross Perot in 1992 when he spoke to the NAACP and used the term "You People". I remember how liberals in and out of the press claimed that this seemingly innocuous phrasing indicated a racist sentiment. I don’t think that it was racist for a non-black to say "you people" to a group that specifically identifies itself as a black organization. Perot meant it the same way someone might say "you all" or "y’all". Nevertheless he was pilloried by Democrats as out of touch, insensitive and racist.

I think this statement by Obama is worse. It is a generalization about white people that I don’t think is true. He didn’t even say that we are afraid of young black men, he said that a typical white person is afraid of people he/she doesn’t know. I just know that I am afraid that an empty suit like Obama could possibly become president.
 
Written By: jt007
URL: http://
It’s pretty clear that typical white people do show more fear of strange blacks than they do of other whites, and they do this more often than black people. It’s not something it makes sense to deny.

Really! I don’t agree, and I deny it with every fiber of my being. Try again Erb!
 
Written By: Cindy
URL: http://
And this is also what a typical white person does:
Hagee, in ’NYT’ This Sunday, Says McCain Sought His Endorsement

By Greg Mitchell

Published: March 20, 2008 5:35 PM ET

NEW YORK In an interview that will appear in this Sunday’s New York Times Magazine, controversial televangelist Rev. John Hagee declares, "It’s true that [John] McCain’s campaign sought my endorsement."

McCain has attempted to distance himself from some of Hagee’s views, much as Barack Obama is doing in relation to Rev. Jeremiah Wright. But unlike McCain, Obama has not stood on stage with Wright and accepted his accolades this year.

Interviewed by Deborah Solomon, Hagee refused to discuss his statement that Hurricane Katrina was God’s punishment for a gay rights parade in New Orleans, calling it "so far off-base." He claims, "Our church is not hard against the gay people. Our church teaches what the bible teaches, that it is not a righteous lifestyle. But of course we must love even sinners."

He also said that charges that he had bashed the Catholic Church ("false cult system," etc.) have been "grossly mischaracterized...I was referring to those Christians who ignore the Gospels."
So McCain seeks out the endorsement of anti-Semitic, anti-Catholic, homphobic bigot. Guess that’s no big deal - you might even call it "typical."
 
Written By: mkultra
URL: http://
This guy really is an idiot. That’s my conclusion, now. This is someone who has no earthly idea what going on out there in America today.
 
Written By: Billy Beck
URL: http://www.two—four.net/weblog.php
I freaking DARE you to come to my town in IL for a speech. I will find a way to speak my mind to you, you racist pile of crap.
Obama’s mother was white. If Obama is black, then he is white. Which means he is racist against himself, at least according to Mr. Jacobs.

Wingnut logic, I suppose.

Kinda reminds me of that scene in Busting Loose when Richard Pryor accuses his black probation officer of being racist against blacks.
 
Written By: mkultra
URL: http://
This is someone who has no earthly idea what going on out there in America today.
Just yesterday, the US Supreme Court threw out a death penalty conviction on the ground that the white prosecutor had thrown out all potential black jurors to seat an all white jury. Hell, even Roberts and Alito were in the majority.

Guess they don’t know what’s going on in America either.
 
Written By: mkultra
URL: http://
"It’s pretty clear that typical white people do show more fear of strange blacks than they do of other whites,..."
Oh, really, Erb? Tell me something: what’s the black population of Farmington?
 
Written By: Billy Beck
URL: http://www.two—four.net/weblog.php
"mk", you dizzy bitch: The Man From Dope said "typical". You can try to make that case with one white prosecutor, but everybody in sight is going to laugh right in your face all day long.
 
Written By: Billy Beck
URL: http://www.two—four.net/weblog.php
"mk", you dizzy bitch: The Man From Dope said "typical". You can try to make that case with one white prosecutor, but everybody in sight is going to laugh right in your face all day long.
B*tch? Wow, mysoginist much? Wonder what you might call me if you thought I was black.

Gosh, it’s good to know that there isn’t any other racism out there other than this one case.

 
Written By: mkultra
URL: http://
It’s pretty clear that typical white people do show more fear of strange blacks than they do of other whites, and they do this more often than black people.
Oh, yeah, Erb’s gots himself lots o ’sperience with the black folks there at the college. Got the broad brush out today, gonna do some paintin’
So McCain seeks out the endorsement of anti-Semitic, anti-Catholic, homphobic bigot.
Well, if Greg Mitchell says so... seriously, this doesn’t pass the smell test, but run with it anyway. It may have legs.
Gosh, it’s good to know that there isn’t any other racism out there other than this one case.
Passive-aggressive racebaiting? That’s a fresh angle!
 
Written By: rob
URL: http://
I think the reaction against Wright is proof that some people want to deny the racial divisions and the sad history of race relations in the US and pretend that everyone is equal.
Come on, Erb, you know better than this. It’s one thing to say, "There’s still a big problem with racism in America." It’s quite another to say, "The CIA pushed crack in black neighborhoods to keep the black man down," or, "White men invented AIDS to kill off black men." Maybe it’s the outrageous claims that people are reacting to? Don’t try to frame the debate so that the objectionable statements appear innocuous.

 
Written By: Steverino
URL: http://
Wonder what you might call me if you thought I was black.
We’d still call you an idiot, it’s the best term to describe you.

 
Written By: Steverino
URL: http://
"B*tch? Wow, mysoginist much?"
No, in fact. If you knew the women who know me, you’d know better. It’s all-purpose contempt: I don’t know if you’re a man or a woman — because you’re a goddamned coward — and I don’t care.
 
Written By: Billy Beck
URL: http://www.two—four.net/weblog.php
So Perfesser,

When Jesse Jackson indicated that is fright at hearing footsteps behind him was alleviated when he discovered they came from a white, was he being a typical white person?

Also, if you listen to the audio this bit "...that she doesn’t know (pause) there’s a reaction in her that doesn’t go away and it comes out in the wrong way... is actually "...that she doesn’t know (pause) their is a reaction that has been bred into our experiences that don’t(sic) go away and it comes out in the wrong way.

Wonder why the edit job?
 
Written By: Uncle Pinky
URL: http://
It’s pretty clear that typical white people do show more fear of strange blacks than they do of other whites, and they do this more often than black people.
Erb; The crime statistics... are a whole new thing for you, aren’t they? Particularly the bay race per capita ones....

Of course, up there in Maine, the last time the police noticed a blackout, they made him get in his car, and go home.



 
Written By: Bithead
URL: http://bitsblog.florack.us
Here’s another rule of holes: when your opponent is digging his, you don’t hand him a ladder.

McQuain & Co.: You’re not going to believe this.

Astounding.

"Can’t one anyone here play this game?"
 
Written By: Billy Beck
URL: http://www.two—four.net/weblog.php
Here’s another rule of holes: when your opponent is digging his, you don’t hand him a ladder.

McQuain & Co.: You’re not going to believe this.
Well, all I can say is that given it is state, I doubt it is anyone pro Bush or pro McCain.

On the other hand....f**k him. This should die the same quick and unremarked death that Schumer’s credit-report stealing escapade did.
 
Written By: shark
URL: http://
I don’t think that it was racist for a non-black to say "you people" to a group that specifically identifies itself as a black organization.
I always thought that Perot got a bad rap, especially when the organization is named The National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP). If they don’t want to be referred to as "People" then change the name using "persons" or whatever.

If they were the Faternal Order of Water Buffalos (think Fred Flintstone), I’m sure out of kindness, he would have called a few "Bison," "Bovidae," or perhaps "oxen."
 
Written By: Neo
URL: http://
Well, all I can say is that given it is state, I doubt it is anyone pro Bush or pro McCain.
I think that would also include (or exclude) anyone pro-Clinton.
 
Written By: Neo
URL: http://
Scott Erb said

"I think the reaction against Wright is proof that some people want to deny the racial divisions and the sad history of race relations in the US and pretend that everyone is equal."

The reaction against Revered Wright is an indictment of racism - in this case black racism. Americans condemn him when he said, "God damn America." He blamed America for dropping nukes on Japan after they attacked us and killed millions in Asia. It is also a condemnation of absurd conspiracy theories that the government invented AIDS to kill blacks and that they intentionally flooded black sections of New Orleans. Excusing Wright is wrong (no pun intended).

The history of American race relations is hardly "sad." Affirmative action aside, Colin Powell was chairman of the JCS and later Secretary of State. Condi Rice, NSC advisor, succeeded him at State. Clarence Thomas is a Supreme Court Justice. Bobby Jindal is the new governor of Louisiana. All of these people are republicans, but the leading contender for the democrat presidential nomination is Barack Hussein Obama - the son of a Kenyan muslim and a Kansas native. Please tell me what other country has done as much to foster race relations.

In the United States, everyone is not equal. They are individuals, entitled to equal opportunity.
 
Written By: Arch
URL: http://
Oh, really, Erb? Tell me something: what’s the black population of Farmington?
Of course, up there in Maine, the last time the police noticed a blackout, they made him get in his car, and go home.
All right, that is ENOUGH. You will back the F*CK off of Professor Erb, and you will do it NOW. I’m sure you think you’re pretty smart, "Erb lives in lily-white Maine, neener-neener." He’s not even FROM Maine, you dolts.

He’s from South Dakota, where the Crips and the Bloods play...

 
Written By: Jeff
URL: http://
Gosh, it’s good to know that there isn’t any other racism out there other than this one case.
Yeah, like when the Jena Six monkey-stomped that white kid - oh, wait.

Or when Freddie’s Fashion Mart was burned... oops.

Or when Tawana Braw - dammit.

Or when that white b*stard Reginald Denny had his skull fractured in 91 places and 3 of his black assailants walked with not-guilty verdicts and one of them did only 3 years for attempted murder... you mean that racism?

Or when Ken Tillery was beaten and dragged to death by three black men - you mean that racism?

Or the white guy who was dumped out of his wheelchair by a cop - anyone remember what color the cop was? Oops, how inconvenient for you, mk.

You’re such a dumbsh*t. What’s that you say? Screw Ken Tillery - what about James Byrd? Okay, I see your James Byrd and raise you Channon Christian and Chris Newsom.

The REALITY in this country is that black Americans do not even appreciate your simpering, white-guilt, pussified self-loathing. And no amount of white guilt will protect you on a stroll through Treme, Pigeon Town or the Faubourg Marigny down here in New Orleans. But at least your last thoughts, before the life is kicked, stabbed, shot or strangled from you can be self-satisfied in the knowledge that hey, it wasn’t anything YOU did, it was racists like ME that caused them to lash out in "black anger."

If we ever meet, please don’t mention that you post as mkultra.
 
Written By: Jeff
URL: http://
The REALITY in this country is that black Americans do not even appreciate your simpering, white-guilt, pussified self-loathing. And no amount of white guilt will protect you on a stroll through Treme, Pigeon Town or the Faubourg Marigny down here in New Orleans. But at least your last thoughts, before the life is kicked, stabbed, shot or strangled from you can be self-satisfied in the knowledge that hey, it wasn’t anything YOU did, it was racists like ME that caused them to lash out in "black anger."
Damn, just damn.
Erb; The crime statistics... are a whole new thing for you, aren’t they? Particularly the bay race per capita ones....
I don’t want to read anything into this, so Bit, could you please elaborate. It looks like you are saying something about statistics and fear, but I don’t want to put words in your mouth, so please, help me understand your point here.

 
Written By: Captin sarcastic
URL: http://
It’s pretty clear that typical white people do show more fear of strange blacks than they do of other whites, and they do this more often than black people. It’s not something it makes sense to deny. I think some people don’t understand the level of continuing racism in our society.
Prof. Erb — Once again, you really don’t know what you are talking about. This isn’t racism but commonsense. As a friend of mine from New Orleans (one of the murder capitals of the United States) once said in reference to black violence against whites: "Just crunch the numbers."

According to DOJ statistics Percent of All Stranger Homicides by Race blacks kill ~4x as many whites as whites kill blacks. Adjusting for the fact that there are ~6.5x as many whites as blacks, therefore blacks are 25x more likely to murder whites than visa-versa.

The surprise of this isn’t that whites experience what Oprah Winfrey calls "the gift of fear" in the presence of blacks, but they are even more afraid of being thought racist, by clueless professors and other people, that they won’t even talk about this grisly reality.
 
Written By: huxley
URL: http://
"Just crunch the numbers."
Okay, so if I understand this correctly, you are agreeing that typical white people react with fear to black people, but that it is an empirically sound fear because a black person is more likely to kill you than a white person?

Did I get that right?

Assuming I represented that correctly, let’s dig a little deeper.

The statistics for most years are fairly static, so I’ll use 2005 as a representative number.

White on White
43.7%

Black on White
17.7%

Other on White
.3%

White on Black
4.5%

Black on Black
32.3%

So, 76% of all incidents of murder by strangers are by people of the same skin complexion as the victim, but you are arguing that it makes logical sense to be MORE afraid of someone of a different pigmentation.

You argue...
According to DOJ statistics Percent of All Stranger Homicides by Race blacks kill ~4x as many whites as whites kill blacks. Adjusting for the fact that there are ~6.5x as many whites as blacks, therefore blacks are 25x more likely to murder whites than visa-versa.
So, if I understand this correctly, it’s not so much relevant that a white person is about 170% more likely to be killed by a white stranger, but that any individual black person is statistically more likely to kill a white stranger so a white person is exhibiting fear based on sound logic if they fear an individual black man but not an individual white man?

That does not pass the smell test, in fact, it stinks, and let me tell you why.

If fear were a rational defensive reaction, and not racial prejudice, then a white person should be twice as fearful of a white stranger, because when it comes down to acts of violence of themselves, a white person is almsot twice as likely to be killed by a white stranger. The fact that one might see 6.5 times as many white strangers is irrelevant, one of them is still far more likely to kill you.

There are reasons why typical white people fear black strangers, but it has nothing to do with statistics.

My 17 year old mother arrived from England with her USAF Yank husband in 1945. When she moved into her new South Florida neighborhood, the housewife next door wasted no time informing my mother that black men in America would rape you if they got you alone.

So, if you are told this kind of thing as a young girl, no matter how hard you tried, no matter how well you could deny it rationally, it would be difficult not to have a reaction to a black stranger, even decades later.

How often do you think women over 50 now were told this kind of thing as young girls?

I don’t blame them for having what is virtually an autonomic reaction, but the cause of this reaction is rooted in racism, not statistics.





 
Written By: Captin sarcastic
URL: http://
Okay, so if I understand this correctly, you are agreeing that typical white people react with fear to black people, but that it is an empirically sound fear because a black person is more likely to kill you than a white person?

Did I get that right?
CS.. Pretty much, yes.
There are reasons why typical white people fear black strangers, but it has nothing to do with statistics
.

I beg to differ. If nothing else, the stats provide reinforcement for the fear.
And, to tie this back to the conversation, are rather like digging a hole when you’re down.

Your figures are missing one vital point; ON a per capita basis, what are the crime percentages? Interesting, that you avoid those figures in your argument.


 
Written By: Bithead
URL: http://bitsblog.florack.us
He’s from South Dakota, where the Crips and the Bloods play...
(Chuckle)
 
Written By: Bithead
URL: http://bitsblog.florack.us
Do I fear the typical black person? Hell no. Not anymore than I fear anyone else.

But, yeah, I typically steer clear of people dressed like punks and gang bangers, no matter what their skin color. I also steer clear of bums on the street, and drunk people.

That aint racist or biggoted, it’s self preservation.

On the flip side, I still hold the door open for women, the elderly, and those with kids or packages. I stop to help people in distress.

Just helped push a stalled car off the road yesterday. The other guy helping push was older then I, and white, and the guys who’s car we were pushing was black. And that was in a small semi-rural town here in Indiana. We were both concerned that he might get hit.
 
Written By: Keith_Indy
URL: http://asecondhandconjecture.com
Capt Sarcastic:

Your grandmother’s neighbor was correct.

The U.S. Department of Justice collects and publishes statistics annually in the National Crime Victimization Survey (NVCS) including interracial crimes.

I expected to find white on black violence would be the dominant mode if for no reason other than the population distribution is 77% white vs. 12.9% black. It was overwhelmingly the reverse. Before anyone attempts to refute this conclusion, please visit NVCS website, download the 2005 violent crime statistics - cvus05.pdf, look at page 55 (table 42).

In 2005 there were 111, 490 whites raped by single offenders. Identified offenders were 44.5% white, 33.6% black, 19.6% other and 2.3% unknown. There were 36,620 blacks raped by 0% white, 100% black, 0% other, 0% unknown. So, of the 148,110 single offender rapes, 74,080 were raped by blacks - 12.9% of the population account for 50.02% of the rapes.

For a rough idea of rape rates by offender’s race per 100,000, use a US population of 300 million. 12.9% of 300 million is 38.7 million. 74,080/387 = 191.42 per 100,000 blacks. 65,909/1500 = 43.94 per 100,000 whites.
 
Written By: Arch
URL: http://
Arch,
I think those statistics, while compelling may be problematic. Rapes are notoriously underreported, it is a very personal crime, and very often the Victim is put on trial along with the defendant. (Was she askin’ for it?) I think it is extremely likely that black on white rape is reported more frequently because a white victim feels more confident in a conviction when they are raped by a black person, than vice versa. (Especially when the police force is very white.)

It is also likely, since your report lists races for only "Identified offenders" that the offenders were identified more frequently when they were black. The rapists who "got away" may be more likely to be white. (I’m not saying this is definitely true, but we don’t know, and that could really change the statistics.)

Essentially, I wouldn’t take rape statistics as records of what actually happened. They are records of what was reported, which is often quite different due to the difficulties surrounding reporting rapes and prosecuting rapists.

I’ve been alone with any number of black men, and none of them have raped me. So, I really think that her neighbor may have just been exaggerating a LEEEEETLE bit.
 
Written By: Shinobi
URL: http://liesandstatistics.blogspot.com
Your grandmother’s neighbor was correct.
So Obama was accurate in his suggestion that his grandmother’s fear is that of a "typical white person"?

And it doesn’t strike you to consider that for a black male, being considered someone who will rape a white woman (even though only a tiny fraction actually DO) would have an effect on you?

I recognize that you are justifying the stereotype with statistics, but if you consider a person’s skin color an indicator of whether they are going to hurt you, that is pretty much the definition of racism.
Your figures are missing one vital point; ON a per capita basis, what are the crime percentages? Interesting, that you avoid those figures in your argument.
No, I did not avoid per capita incidence in my argument, I addressed them here...


"So, if I understand this correctly, it’s not so much relevant that a white person is about 170% more likely to be killed by a white stranger, but that any individual black person is statistically more likely to kill a white stranger so a white person is exhibiting fear based on sound logic if they fear an individual black man but not an individual white man?"

That any individual black person is statistically more likely to kill a white stranger is a direct recognition of per capita statistics, but it is still a poor basis on which to make such decisions. As I said, If fear were a rational defensive reaction, and not racial prejudice, then a white person should be twice as fearful of a white stranger, because when it comes down to acts of violence of themselves, a white person is almsot twice as likely to be killed by a white stranger. The fact that one might see 6.5 times as many white strangers is irrelevant, one of them is still far more likely to kill you.

You see, you are putting the victim in the role of assigning risk from individuals (that would be per capita), and I am saying that when it actually happens, per capital is irrelevant because even though an individual white person is less likely on a per capita basis to harm you, you have no idea which white person is going to be the one to commit the offense, just that it is far more likely to be a white person.

Irrational fear based on skin color is, again racist, and even rational fear that leads to discrimination is racist.

What is happening here, in this thread, is that the comments by Wright about continuing discrimination against black people are being justified by his political enemies, and Obama’s comments about "typical white people" are being supported.

This is the direction that I knew this meme would take us, and the rhetoric will become uglier, perhaps until it’s not rhetoric anymore.


 
Written By: Captin Sarcastic
URL: http://
McQ,

Do you see the nasty turn this has taken, and how do you feel about it?
You’re such a dumbsh*t. What’s that you say? Screw Ken Tillery - what about James Byrd? Okay, I see your James Byrd and raise you Channon Christian and Chris Newsom.

The REALITY in this country is that black Americans do not even appreciate your simpering, white-guilt, pussified self-loathing. And no amount of white guilt will protect you on a stroll through Treme, Pigeon Town or the Faubourg Marigny down here in New Orleans. But at least your last thoughts, before the life is kicked, stabbed, shot or strangled from you can be self-satisfied in the knowledge that hey, it wasn’t anything YOU did, it was racists like ME that caused them to lash out in "black anger."
 
Written By: Captin Sarcastic
URL: http://
Oh, I’m sorry, Captin. I realize that this has gotten off-track. Thank you for pointing that out.


Now where were we? Oh, yeah. Obama is a racist and you and mkultra are two of his enablers. Is that better?
 
Written By: Jeff
URL: http://
Do you see the nasty turn this has taken, and how do you feel about it?
Well first, do me a favor and assess your role in getting it to that point, will you?
 
Written By: McQ
URL: http://www.QandO.net
The entire point isn’t whether or not it’s statistically more likely for a black to attack a white - the point was the broad brush used with the statement -
"typical white"

What, exactly is the ’typical white’?

Can I start using the terms
’typical Black’ or
’typical Jew’ or
’typical Arab’
without people wondering if I might have some deeper seated issues with jews, blacks and arabs?

Huh, go figure, ’typical white’ isn’t a racial stereotype after all, who knew?
 
Written By: looker
URL: http://
Capt Sarcastic

My point was that the NCVS statistics show that a woman is equally likely to be raped by a black or a white man, but that there are many more white men. Also, a rate of 191.42/100,000 blacks is higher than 43.94/100,000 whites.

Today, most rape victims know to get medical help soon after the event. DNA swab evidence can be used to determine race. Of course, rape is also an up close and personal offense where the victim has an excellent opportunity to know the race of her attacker.

As for under reporting race, I have no evidence to support or deny the statistical data provided by the DoJ.

 
Written By: Arch
URL: http://
Well first, do me a favor and assess your role in getting it to that point, will you?
Considering that my first comment in this thread came after the justification for racism was made, my role was clarification that this is what they really meant.

By justification of racism, I mean this...
You’re such a dumbsh*t. What’s that you say? Screw Ken Tillery - what about James Byrd? Okay, I see your James Byrd and raise you Channon Christian and Chris Newsom.

The REALITY in this country is that black Americans do not even appreciate your simpering, white-guilt, pussified self-loathing. And no amount of white guilt will protect you on a stroll through Treme, Pigeon Town or the Faubourg Marigny down here in New Orleans. But at least your last thoughts, before the life is kicked, stabbed, shot or strangled from you can be self-satisfied in the knowledge that hey, it wasn’t anything YOU did, it was racists like ME that caused them to lash out in "black anger."
and this...
Prof. Erb — Once again, you really don’t know what you are talking about. This isn’t racism but commonsense. As a friend of mine from New Orleans (one of the murder capitals of the United States) once said in reference to black violence against whites: "Just crunch the numbers."

According to DOJ statistics Percent of All Stranger Homicides by Race blacks kill ~4x as many whites as whites kill blacks. Adjusting for the fact that there are ~6.5x as many whites as blacks, therefore blacks are 25x more likely to murder whites than visa-versa.
and this...
I beg to differ. If nothing else, the stats provide reinforcement for the fear.
and this...
Your grandmother’s neighbor was correct.
Well, it was my mother, but what the poster is saying is correct, is the assertion by her neighbor that "black men in America would rape you if they got you alone."


My role in the larger discussion has been acknowledging that in the black community, anger exists, and it is expressed. It does not define the black community, and it is not likely productive, but at this moment in time, a black person immersed in black culture could not avoid hearing this anger expressed, and key is not whether they have, but what they did with it. Does their own rhetoric rise above what they hear, or do they continue the cycle. In Obama’s case, I have been clear that I have never heard same anything destructive, and the closest he has come is when he is forced by the necessities of politics to talk about race. But then we get to the question of justification. I suppose I am of the opinion that this anger is not just an anachronism, a reaction to a time long past, but to current discrimination in our society. And this nasty turn in the comments seems to reflect that.

Your turn.

 
Written By: Captin Sarcastic
URL: http://
Considering that my first comment in this thread came after the justification for racism was made, my role was clarification that this is what they really meant.
Ah, I see ... so this has only occurred in the vacuum of this thread. Got it. Thanks.
 
Written By: McQ
URL: http://www.QandO.net
My point was that the NCVS statistics show that a woman is equally likely to be raped by a black or a white man, but that there are many more white men. Also, a rate of 191.42/100,000 blacks is higher than 43.94/100,000 whites.
So shouldn’t a white woman be equally afraid of a white stranger, since if they are raped, it is just as likely to be a white man? (I say that for the sake of argument, because I disagree with the premise and the use of statistics.

If people want to base their fear on rational considerations, they should be most wary of their friends and family. By some estimates, over 70% of rape victims know their attackers. The rapist may be a relative, friend, co-worker, date or other acquaintance. The majority of rapes are same race; somewhere around 3 to 4% are not same race. But when you remove rapes by aquantainences, the incidence of black on white rape is magnified.
 
Written By: Captin Sarcastic
URL: http://
Ah, I see ... so this has only occurred in the vacuum of this thread. Got it. Thanks.
Did you read past this sentence at all?

I recognize that my participation in this discussion goes beyond this thread, so I made two comments, one referencing this thread only, and the other referencing my role in the larger discussion.

Since you appear to have missed it, I’ll post it again...
My role in the larger discussion has been acknowledging that in the black community, anger exists, and it is expressed. It does not define the black community, and it is not likely productive, but at this moment in time, a black person immersed in black culture could not avoid hearing this anger expressed, and key is not whether they have, but what they did with it. Does their own rhetoric rise above what they hear, or do they continue the cycle. In Obama’s case, I have been clear that I have never heard same anything destructive, and the closest he has come is when he is forced by the necessities of politics to talk about race. But then we get to the question of justification. I suppose I am of the opinion that this anger is not just an anachronism, a reaction to a time long past, but to current discrimination in our society. And this nasty turn in the comments seems to reflect that.
If you don’t want to venture an opinion on the turn this discussion has taken, that’s your right, it’s your blog, but it’s deceitful to indicate that your response is forthcoming, pending my answer to your subsequent question...
Well first, do me a favor and assess your role in getting it to that point, will you?
I answered this question.

So, your turn, or feel free to deflect again, and I’ll consider that answer enough.
 
Written By: Captin Sarcastic
URL: http://
a black person immersed in black culture could not avoid hearing this anger expressed, and key is not whether they have, but what they did with it. Does their own rhetoric rise above what they hear, or do they continue the cycle.
Not trying to make any equivalences between Wrights church and the KKK, but you seem to be saying that if a white person attended KKK rallies for 20 years, as long as their own rhetoric doesn’t sink to that level, they aren’t continuing the cycle???

Their silence in stopping the rhetoric is in fact continuing the cycle. It’s de-facto acceptance of the status quo.

It is equivalent to the Islamic communities being silent when the name of Islam is used by those committing terror. By not condemning the behavior, they are seen (however wrongly) to be a silent party to it.
 
Written By: Keith_Indy
URL: http://asecondhandconjecture.com
So, your turn, or feel free to deflect again, and I’ll consider that answer enough.
I see it as the expected confrontation of "white anger" and "white guilt" and the result is pretty predictable, wouldn’t you say?

Jeff’s comment represents one side of the argument, you and MK seem to represent the other. While everyone seems ready to acknowledge and be understanding about some level of black anger, as time passes and nothing changes in that regard, fewer and fewer whites are willing to support or understand its continuance.

That’s what constitutes most "white anger". Many whites simply are getting tired of taking the perpetual blame for the condition of blacks who have had the tools, laws and opportunities to change that condition for a few decades. It’s not directed at all blacks by any stretch - many have taken advantage of the opportunities to change and improves their lives. And most whites welcome and celebrate that.

But those that do so don’t get the attention and their "leaders" don’t get the press. It is normally lavished upon the leaders who perpetuate victimhood and grievance - a function of "white guilt".

So what you see from Jeff, and to a lesser extent from others, is a rejection of "white guilt" and a refusal to take the blame for that group of blacks who won’t do what they should for themselves and have developed a culture of victimhood and grievance (manifested in black liberation theology) to justify their behavior and lay the blame for their failure elsewhere.

So to answer your question directly:
Do you see the nasty turn this has taken, and how do you feel about it?
I don’t see it as a "nasty turn", but instead an important part of the racial dialog that Obama (and I assume you) claims to want to see happen.

If you’re going to have that dialog, it has to include and explore all sides of the question, and that means white anger as well as black anger.

Does that answer your question?
 
Written By: McQ
URL: http://www.QandO.net
Wrights church and the KKK
Hell, I’ll do that. I mean, let’s not dance around this one. Let’s state it flatly; Racism is racism. The logic of each are close enough you can’t fit water between them.



 
Written By: Bithead
URL: http://bitsblog.florack.us
Not trying to make any equivalences between Wrights church and the KKK, but you seem to be saying that if a white person attended KKK rallies for 20 years, as long as their own rhetoric doesn’t sink to that level, they aren’t continuing the cycle???
First, you are making an equivelance to the KKK, qualification aside, and this is important because the KKK and white supremacy has it’s foundation not in what it’s adherents are, but in what it’s assigned enemy is not, white. So no, your comparison does not hold. Racism is the foundation of the KKK, it is not the foundation of the TUCC.

Black anger is not racism, it may not be productive, but black people have been enslaved, repressed, and continue to be discriminated against, and for the purpose of communication, some descriptor has to be assigned to the source of the discrimination. Wright chose to use the term, "the white man" to represent oppressors. This is completely different from the meaning and implications of white supremacy. wright was wrong in what he said on these occasions, but it’s not like the TUCC is founded on the principal of eliminating white people, just overcoming the adversity that (some) white people put in their paths.

I get your point, and a significant number of people agree with it, I just don’t.

Not that I expect any agreement here, since it’s just politically expedient for political adversaries to push this as far they can, (like the left would push Falwell comments), but the black community is imperfect, and anyone who comes from that community will have been a part of their failings as well as their successes. Wright is a mixed bag, but from Obama’s rhetoric and actions, he seems to have taken the best from Wright, and left the rest.

Not that this qualifies him to be President, or means he would make a good one, but we are really talking about whether someone who comes from this community and hears these things without leaving is going to be disqualified from particpation altogether, regardless of how they conduct themselves.
 
Written By: Captin Sarcastic
URL: http://
McQ: Agreed.
Here’s the thing. Solving a problem, by it’s very nature, requires correct identification of the problem. The phrases I quoted before...
“The task of black theology is to kill Gods who do not belong to the black community … Black theology will accept only the love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy.”

“All white men are responsible for white oppression. ”

“Theologically, Malcolm X was not far wrong when he called the white man ‘the devil.’”
... do seem to lack a certain level of willingness to identify the issues, regardless where they end up... to say nothing of solving the problem and of reconciliation. They do, however, make headlines at need... as Jackson, Sharpton and many others have discovered over the years....


And CS:
Racism is the foundation of the KKK, it is not the foundation of the TUCC
Read again the first quote, and tell me you can still make your assertion that racism isn’t at the root of the TUCC witha straight face.


 
Written By: Bithead
URL: http://bitsblog.florack.us
If you’re going to have that dialog, it has to include and explore all sides of the question, and that means white anger as well as black anger.
Agreed
Does that answer your question?
It does, but what happens when (if) we learn through this dialogue that racism is far more prevelant (though perhaps more subtle) than any of these people expressing white resentment know?

What I mean is, the farther we go down this road, should we learn that racism is endemic in the white community, does Wright’s (and by extension Obama’s) esteem go up, for being more justified in expressing black anger than some previously assumed?

And by the way, there is a lot more to this than white resentment about how far we have come and the ungratefulness of blacks to even question the commitment of white people to racial equality (though I think that’s a crock), these comments are specifically asserting that judging a black person to be likely to harm you is not only justified, but a good idea.





 
Written By: Captin Sarcastic
URL: http://
Read again the first quote, and tell me you can still make your assertion that racism isn’t at the root of the TUCC witha straight face.
Racism is not at the root of the TUCC.


I didn’t even crack a smirk.
 
Written By: Captin Sarcastic
URL: http://
Hmmm. Perhaps you’d best consult the dictionary.

Particualrly note the third listing.
It does, but what happens when (if) we learn through this dialogue that racism is far more prevelant (though perhaps more subtle) than any of these people expressing white resentment know?
What if we were all sleeping? How would we know?

Look, here it is;

The FBI stats suggest that blacks are far more likley to commit violent crimes than whites on a per capita basis. Now, if you want to argue that such is the result of anger and that anger is somehow justified, do so and have done, so we might discuss it from that angle. But to not recognize the significance of this stat is foolish at least.



 
Written By: Bithead
URL: http://bitsblog.florack.us
“Typical White Person” just made me cringe.

I grew up an “Army brat,” which meant that given President Eisenhower’s desegregation of the military, I had plenty of black, brown, yellow and white friends in the Army schools.

I was never ever taught to discriminate, except perhaps the difference between Irish and non-Irish, and as a Catholic, my mother told me about KKK cross burnings in Pennsylvania and that the KKK “hated Catholics and Negroes.”

As a teen in the 60’s, I was genuinely perplexed that there was any need for a “civil rights” movement, as it just seemed obvious that the outcome would and should be just like the military.

Having the likes of Rev. Wright shoved into my reality really began to give me pause as to who really are the “racists” in our society.

Rev. Wright is anything but a Christian man. Christ never taught anyone to hate. I find his kind of religion to be anathema to any form of Christianity.

As the past week has unfolded, to find out that Rev. Wright isn’t the exception in the Black community has been a real shock.

I’m starting with the man in the mirror
I’m asking him to change his ways
And no message could have been any clearer
If you wanna make the world a better place
Take a look at yourself, and then make a change


.. but my change doesn’t include a President Obama, at least not this year. Anyone who sat by and did nothing shows me no leadership and therefore is no leader.

Barack Obama is unqualified to be the "leader of the free world" when he can’t even muster enough courage to lead his mentor into a better direction. That’s change I can believe in.

I suggest he read his Bible before he goes to Trinity again .. then show his congregation that Christ preferred another way, a way without the hate and without the "God damns."
 
Written By: Neo
URL: http://
It does, but what happens when (if) we learn through this dialogue that racism is far more prevelant (though perhaps more subtle) than any of these people expressing white resentment know?
Then there’s a problem to be confronted. But that doesn’t mean we should ignore the racism, and it happens to be very "unsubtle", that appears to exist within a certain part of the black community.

If we believe that racism is bad, then we should denounce it in all communities and not try to justify it somehow based on conditions that don’t exist and haven’t existed within a couple or three generations. Nor should it be excused because we think it may exist in another community.
What I mean is, the farther we go down this road, should we learn that racism is endemic in the white community, does Wright’s (and by extension Obama’s) esteem go up, for being more justified in expressing black anger than some previously assumed?
The fact that this white dominated country has worked so hard to remove the racial obstacles and enable true equality for all speaks to that particular premise being very unlikely. I can’s speak for others, but I certainly don’t want the clock to be turned back.

Expressing general black anger over valid grievances which still exist is one thing. Justifying victimhood and grievance as if nothing has changed is another thing. Things have changed - dramatically. The refusal of a certain part of the black community to acknowledge that is the root of developing white anger.

I would guess most whites no longer accept that form of black anger as valid. In fact, Obama acknowledged the static nature of the expressed victimhood and grievance by his pastor as incorrect. But he also can’t find it in himself to disown it. That is the developing problem many whites are having with Obama.
And by the way, there is a lot more to this than white resentment about how far we have come and the ungratefulness of blacks to even question the commitment of white people to racial equality (though I think that’s a crock), these comments are specifically asserting that judging a black person to be likely to harm you is not only justified, but a good idea.
Take it up with Jesse Jackson - how do you explain him feeling exactly the same way Obama’s grandmother felt - was his the reaction of a "typical black person?"
 
Written By: McQ
URL: http://www.QandO.net
I’m starting with the man in the mirror
I’m asking him to change his ways
And no message could have been any clearer
If you wanna make the world a better place
Take a look at yourself, and then make a change
Quoting Micheal Jackson is not exactly the way to impress... just so you know.

 
Written By: Bithead
URL: http://bitsblog.florack.us
Racism is not at the root of the TUCC.
Unless you believe that blacks cannot be racists (a concept taught commonly enough in schools and colleges), then the conclusion that Obama’s church is founded in racism is inescapable. It is also black nationalist and black separatist.

One of the first things that Jeremiah Wright wants you to know is that his church is based in something called "black theology," as described and "formalized" by James Cone.

I have three of Cone’s books in front of me. He is a racist. His "black theology" is racist. And just to make sure "Whitey" gets it, Cone sees "revolutionary" violence as a given, if and when it is needed. If one can wade through the repetitive mumbo-jumbo of Cone’s prose, there is almost nothing to see but racism. That seems to be, under the thin pretense of a Biblical Christianity, about the whole of Cone’s point.

He sees racial "reconciliation" as a one-way street, where the terms can’t be "dictated" by whites who are, after all, the representatives of evil. "Reconciliation" can only be on black terms. God and His Son Jesus are black, and whiteness is the element of Satan.

This isn’t just your ordinary, everyday racism, such as "I hate blacks" or "I hate whites." This is elemental, programmatic, "theological" racism.

There can be no benefit of the doubt for Barack Obama. You cannot belong to a racist, black nationalist church for 20 years and not be a racist and a black nationalist. If you want to believe Obama is a "new generation," then you could probably believe that these people are a new generation too.
 
Written By: Martin McPhillips
URL: http://mcphillips.blogspot.com/
enable true equality for all
Of course, this means, equality of opportunity, not of out come.

And as long as outcomes are not equal, leftist/liberal/progressive/democrats will be able to point and say, there must be discrimination and racism.

And nice of you to completely skip over my actual point by arguing against a point I was not making.
Their silence in stopping the rhetoric is in fact continuing the cycle. It’s de-facto acceptance of the status quo
from Obama’s rhetoric and actions, he seems to have taken the best from Wright, and left the rest.
And leaving the rest is OK with you. Leave the rest to fester and continue to infect people with a negative attitude.

He couldn’t have done anything to change the conditions in the black community, or the attitudes of the people?

No, 20 years later he sees the light and wants to unite people, and heal communities. And people wonder where the cynicism is coming from.
 
Written By: Keith_Indy
URL: http://asecondhandconjecture.com
I’m not able to attend Harvard Law. Nor get elected to political office in Illinois.

Obviously it’s racsim against whites, and has nothing to do with my lower-than-they-should-have-been HS grades... Couldn’t have been that.
 
Written By: Scott Jacobs
URL: http://
Directly from their website...

http://www.tucc.org/mission.htm
W.E.B. DuBois indicated that the problem in the 20th century was going to be the problem of the color line. He was absolutely correct. Our job as servants of God is to address that problem and eradicate it in the name of Him who came for the whole world by calling all men, women, boys and girls to Christ.
I would suggest that they aren’t anywhere close to addressing the problem or eradicating it. In fact, Rev Wright’s views seems to be inflaming the problem and continuing the cycle.

http://www.tucc.org/talking_points.htm
Dr. Wright’s talking points (3.1.7) for Trinity United Church of Christ its Web site and the Black Value System (in response to Erik Rush’s comments (2.28.07) on the Hannity and Colmes show):

• One of the biggest gaps in knowledge that causes the kind of ignorance that you hear spouted by this man [Erik Rush] and those like him, has to do with the fact that these persons are completely ignorant when it comes to the Black religious tradition. The vision statement of Trinity United Church of Christ is based upon the systematized liberation theology that started in 1969 with the publication of Dr. James Cone’s book, Black Power and Black Theology.

• Black theology is one of the many theologies in the Americas that became popular during the liberation theology movement. They include Hispanic theology, Native American theology, Asian theology and Womanist theology.

• I use the word “systematized” because Black liberation theology was in existence long before Dr. Cone’s book. It originates in the days of the Trans-Atlantic slave trade. It was systematized and published by theologians, Old Testament scholars, New Testament scholars, ethicists, church historians, and historians of religion such as Dr. James Cone, Dr. Cain Hope Felder, Dr. Gayraud Wilmore, Dr. Jacqueline Grant, Dr. Kelley Brown Douglas, Dr. Renita Weems, Dr. Katie Cannon, Dr. Dwight Hopkins, Dr. Linda Thomas, and Dr. Randall Bailey.

• These scholars, who write in various disciplines, also include seminary presidents like Dr. John Kinney and professors of Hebrew Bible, like Dr. Jerome Ross. Black liberation theology defines Africans and African Americans as subjects – not the objects which colonizers and oppressors have consistently defined “others” as.

• We [African Americans] were always seen as objects. When we started defining ourselves, it scared those who try to control others by naming them and defining them for them; Oppressors do not like “others” defining themselves.

• To have a church whose theological perspective starts from the vantage point of Black liberation theology being its center, is not to say that African or African American people are superior to any one else.

• African-centered thought, unlike Eurocentrism, does not assume superiority and look at everyone else as being inferior.

• There is more than one center from which to view the world. In the words of Dr. Janice Hale, “Difference does not mean deficience.” It is from this vantage point that Black liberation theology speaks.

• Systematized Black liberation theology is 40 years old. Scholars of African and African American religious history show that Black liberation theology, however, has been in existence for 400 years. It is found in the songs, the sermons, the testimonies and the oral literature of Africans throughout the Diaspora.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Hal_Cone
"Black theology cannot accept a view of God which does not represent God as being for oppressed blacks and thus against white oppressors. Living in a world of white oppressors, blacks have no time for a neutral God. The brutalities are too great and the pain too severe, and this means we must know where God is and what God is doing in the revolution. There is no use for a God who loves white oppressors the same as oppressed blacks. We have had too much of white love, the love that tells blacks to turn the other cheek and go the second mile. What we need is the divine love as expressed in black power, which is the power of blacks to destroy their oppressors, here and now, by any means at their disposal. Unless God is participating in this holy activity, we must reject God’s love." [A Black Theology of Liberation, p. 70]
yeah, that’s a very Christian attitude...

Oh wait, I’m white, and thus guilty of being an oppressor, and probably just don’t "get" it.
 
Written By: Keith_Indy
URL: http://asecondhandconjecture.com
Keith:
No, 20 years later [Obama] sees the light and wants to unite people, and heal communities. And people wonder where the cynicism is coming from.
The cynacism is Obama’s, believing that he is going to get over on the country with his adherence to this racist church, but that’s the least serious malady you get from him.

People have said that he "used" Wright’s church to become politically viable. Had that been the case, had he been merely an opportunist in need of some street cred to get him started, then those same self-serving instincts would have had him move out of that congregation 15 years ago to a reasonably mainstream church.

Instead, he is a church loyalist, and he’s going to try to gloss the place as "community oriented," and a fount of the "social gospel," because he knows that it is at its core organized around "black theology" and black nationalism.

So, Obama is the cleaned-up front man for this church and its racist teachings.

What you saw in those rants by Wright in the videos are not the old preacher wandering off into his "1960s" bitterness and resentment; those rants are perfectly consistent with the core teaching of the church, and you can see how enthusiastically church members, particularly the young, respond to his racist harrangues.

Listen to this rant again and pay particular attention starting around :30 seconds in and to the attractive young woman in the red tunic in the audience.

Quoting roughly:

"Jesus was a poor black man living in a country controlled by rich white people. Etc. Romans were rich, they were Italian, which means they were European, which means they were white."

There is nothing divergent here from the basic formulation of "black theology." That is, there is nothing divergent here from the foundation of the teachings of this church. The congregation is responding to what they are used to and what they expect.
 
Written By: Martin McPhillips
URL: http://mcphillips.blogspot.com/
This is exactly my point. Sitting around, silently listening to the rhetoric, is acceptance of the views behind it.

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=OGZmMTgyYTZhMzI4NTRlNjkyZDg5NWQ3OWNlNGRmYzM=
Obama wants us to believe that he did not turn his back on Wright, leave Wright’s church or “disown” him because for the past 20 years, Wright has been “like family” to him. But Obama wants us simultaneously to believe that he was not aware that his close friend held such a “profoundly distorted view of this country” — a view that encompassed Wright’s beliefs that the U.S. government created the AIDS virus, introduced crack to the ghettos, invited the 9/11 attacks through acts of wanton violence throughout the world and therefore ought to be damned.

I don’t believe it. Obama’s friendship with Wright is probably genuine, and I do not blame Obama for refusing to abandon his friend over what amounts to a political disagreement. But it’s highly unlikely that Obama did not know about his close friend’s very public and “profoundly distorted” beliefs about America.

What bothers me is that we don’t have any evidence — either an old letter or a statement from the campaign — that Obama ever confronted his friend and tried to change his mind. Such confrontations can grate on friendships, if they happen frequently enough, and especially if they concern trivial matters. But here we have a situation where a friend of Obama’s was spreading poisonous beliefs to a congregation that included Obama’s own daughters. Obama was in a unique position to lead by asking his friend to reconsider some of his hateful and paranoid ideas.

Evidently, he didn’t, and what might have been silent disagreement now looks like passive acceptance. No one should ask Obama to turn his back on his friend. But we have a right to ask those who wish to lead us: If they can’t confront their friends, how will they confront our enemies?
 
Written By: Keith_Indy
URL: http://asecondhandconjecture.com
I definately need to subscribe to NR now...
 
Written By: Scott Jacobs
URL: http://
Keith quotes from Steve Spruiell’s article in National Review:
What bothers me is that we don’t have any evidence — either an old letter or a statement from the campaign — that Obama ever confronted his friend and tried to change his mind. Such confrontations can grate on friendships, if they happen frequently enough, and especially if they concern trivial matters. But here we have a situation where a friend of Obama’s was spreading poisonous beliefs to a congregation that included Obama’s own daughters. Obama was in a unique position to lead by asking his friend to reconsider some of his hateful and paranoid ideas.
O.K., that’s a reasonable enough point, but I still don’t think that Spruiell gets it.

Wright isn’t just "having ideas," both hateful and paranoid. Wright is hooked into an ideological movement. He is a spokesman for a racist approach to the race problem. So, the idea that Obama, or anyone, could take Wright aside and tell him to tone it down a little is just slightly absurd.

"This is the church we have chosen."

Obama’s only real move was to get out of there, a very long time ago, when his mind got clear on what was going on.
 
Written By: Martin McPhillips
URL: http://mcphillips.blogspot.com/
Obama’s only real move was to get out of there, a very long time ago, when his mind got clear on what was going on.
Unlikely, Martin. Wright introduced Obama to Jesus, after all. Of course, it was Black Power Most Supreme Shakalaka Jesus X, who seems to be somewhat different from the Jesus I was introduced to.
 
Written By: Jeff
URL: http://
Unlikely, Martin. Wright introduced Obama to Jesus, after all. Of course, it was Black Power Most Supreme Shakalaka Jesus X, who seems to be somewhat different from the Jesus I was introduced to.
Wow
 
Written By: Captin Sarcastic
URL: http://
72 some comments and I can’t believe that no one pointed out Erb’s fundamental error. Too much fun to pile on than think about what he said?

A "typical white person" is going to react to people who he or she doesn’t know?

How about a typical HUMAN person is going to react to people he or she doesn’t know. Particularly people who look different or are in a different "group."

Erb said, "It’s pretty clear that typical white people do show more fear of strange blacks than they do of other whites, and they do this more often than black people. It’s not something it makes sense to deny."

A white person will show more fear of strange blacks than strange whites. Oh, well, DUH!! But do this more often than Black people? Garbage! The idea that a "typical black person" isn’t going to react to strangers who look different is completely and utterly bogus. PARTICULARLY if that person has been taught to expect hostility.

You put anyone who seems "out of place" in a situation and a typical HUMAN person is going to either be nervous or worried or feel uncomfortable.

The idea implicit in using the phrase "typical white person" and saying that this "typical white person" reacts to strangers or those who look different AND that this is otherwise ATYPICAL.

Otherwise it would be... my grandmother is a typical human person and when she sees someone, a stranger, someone she doesn’t know, someone who looks different than most of the people she knows... she has a reaction (pause) that doesn’t go away.

This is what is completely false: "...and they do this more often than black people."

BS. Huge smoking piles of bovine excrement.

"I think some people don’t understand the level of continuing racism in our society. I think the reaction against Wright is proof that some people want to deny the racial divisions and the sad history of race relations in the US and pretend that everyone is equal."

Pretending is how we get there, Scott. The *first* thing we need to do is pretend that everyone is equal. And then, when we’re doing that, we have to *behave* as if what we are pretending is true.

But if we aren’t allowed to pretend equality into being, to simply behave as if everyone is equal and live our daily lives with the expectation that people ought to be treated equally and to *expect* that everyone else is also participating in this consensus fiction. (Love that term... it says so much.) So we’re all on the same page *pretending* that what we want to be true is true.

And what happens then, is that when someone isn’t playing along, it stands out, and several hands reach out to slap that person up side the head and say, "Get with the program!"

What doesn’t work, is when there are a whole bunch of people who want to pretend the other direction. Who are invested in racism and the existence of racism. Who want to see it everywhere and interpret whatever happens in that racialist frame.

The reaction against Wright is proof that enough people, on a very basic level, understand that it doesn’t get BETTER to preach division and hostility. There is no healing in grievance. It just doesn’t work that way.

 
Written By: Synova
URL: http://synova.blogspot.com
Unlikely, Martin. Wright introduced Obama to Jesus, after all. Of course, it was Black Power Most Supreme Shakalaka Jesus X, who seems to be somewhat different from the Jesus I was introduced to.
Wow

Exactly "Wow."

Because Jeff’s take, offered with a dash of humor, is precisely on the mark. Funny, but no joke. In Wright’s theology, Jesus must be black, he must serve black needs, he serves black needs through his own blackness, and only through recognizing blackness as their salvation can whites be reconciled with God.

"Wow," exactly.

That is the "path to Christ" that Wright offers. If you think that he offered Obama a more traditional path to Christ, contra the "black theology" of his church, you should explain why that would be the case.
 
Written By: Martin McPhillips
URL: http://mcphillips.blogspot.com/
If I’m not mistaken, that’s called recreating God in your own image.
 
Written By: Bithead
URL: http://bitsblog.florack.us
Obama’s efforts to connect to the Republican Party, specifically Bush, and Dick Chaney, of the Halliburton Company, dates back to the Presidents Grandfather, Prescott Bush, and indeed Chaney was once an executive officer of Halliburton.

The American military pounds Iraq with Artillary, bombs, and the like, destroying large sections of cities, and infra-structures, then Halliburton comes in to rebuild. Halliburton and Halliburton associated companies have raked in ten’s of billions.

Obama is just like the BIG HALIBURTAN. Haliburton has contracted to build detention centers in the U.S. similiar to the one in Quantanammo Bay, Cuba. Halliburton does nothing to earn the Two Dollars for each meal an American Serviceman in Iraq eats.

http://www.halliburtonwatch.org/

Halliburton was scheduled to take control of the Dubai Ports in The United Arab Emiirate. The deal was canceled when Bush was unable to affect the transfer of the American Ports.

Now we see what some might suspect as similiar financial escapading from the Democrats.

Two years ago, Iraq’s Ministry of Electricity gave a $50 million contract to a start-up security company - Companion- owned by now-indicted businessman (TONY REZKO) Tony Rezko and a onetime Chicago cop, Daniel T. Frawley, to train Iraqi power-plant guards in the United States. An Iraqi leadership change left the deal in limbo. Now the company, Companion Security, is working to revive its contract.
Involved along with Antoin “Tony” Rezco, long time friend and neighbor of Democratic Presidential hopeful Barack Obama, and former cop Daniel T. Frawley, is Aiham Alsammarae. Alsammarae was accused of financial corruption by Iraqi authorities and jailed in Iraq last year before escaping and returning here.

LIKE FATHER LIKE SON —
Recently, Obama’s campaign staff have been vetted by the IRS to disclose his connection to the criminal money generating underworld. Besides, his connections to the REZCO MAFIA types, his up-coming tax fraud charges — Obama needs to disclose why he is a MUSLIM "PATWANG-FWEEE" and disclose Obama’s MUSLIM Farrakhan mob connection to Chicago’s Trinity United Church of Christ. Its minister, and Obama’s spiritual adviser, is the Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr. In 1982, the church launched Trumpet Newsmagazine; Wright’s daughters serve as publisher and executive editor. Every year, the magazine makes awards in various categories. Last year, it gave the Dr. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr. Trumpeter Award to a man it said "truly epitomized greatness." That man is Louis Farrakhan. Farrakhan and Chicago’s Trinity United Church are trumpeting Barack Obama AKA Barack Hussein Obama as the second coming of the messiah. Obama should stop suppoting our intervention in IRAQ. It’s time to introduce this false, fake Xerox - X box Obama and invite the self-indicting thief plagiarizing pipsqueke "GLORK" Xerox - X box to meet the Buffalo "GAZOWNT-GAZIKKA" Police Department Buffalo Creek. He is MAD!!! —

OBAM YOU’RE NO JFK —

"GLORK" Obama looks like Alfred E. Newman: "Tales Calculated To Drive You." He is a MUSLIM "Glork" He’s MAD!!! Alfred E. Neuman is the fictional mascot of Mad. The face had drifted through American pictography for decades before being claimed by Mad editor Harvey Kurtzman after he spotted it on the bulletin board in the office of Ballantine Books editor Bernard Shir-Cliff, later a contributor to various magazines created by Kurtzman.
Obama needs to disclose why he is a MUSLIM "PATWANG-FWEEE" and stop suppoting our intervention in IRAQ. It’s time to introduce this false, fake "GLORK" Xerox - X box Obama and invite the self-indicting thief plagiarizing pipsqueke Xerox - X box to meet the Buffalo "GAZOWNT-GAZIKKA" Police Department Buffalo Creek.

Michelle Obama should be ashamed.

"GLORK" Michelle Obama should be ashamed of her separatist-racist connection to Farrakhan and Chicago’s Trinity United Church trumpeting Barack Obama AKA Barack Hussein Obama as the second coming of the messiah. If Michelle Obama new what her husband — the Hope-A-Dope, Fonster Monster — Barack Obama AKA Barack Hussein Obama did in Harlem, she would wash her wide-open, Hus-suey loving MUSILM mouth out, with twenty-four (24) mule-team double-cross X-boX-BorraX. He is a MUSLIM "Glork" It’s time to introduce this false, fake "GLORK" Xerox - X box Obama and invite the self-indicting thief plagiarizing pipsqueke Xerox - X box to meet the Buffalo "GAZOWNT-GAZIKKA" Police Department Buffalo Creek. He’s MAD!!!

http://www.halliburtonwatch.org/

THE SPEECH —

The Apologia has arrived and once again the self-indicting, separatist-racist Barack Obama AKA Barack Hussein Obama, promises to heal the wounds of the world. The speech is the rude awakening of mass messianism of his campaign. Apologetically, Obama the MUSLIM double-cross X-boX-BorraX has an astonishingly empty two-prawn echelon explanation of his misjudgment.
In the first prawn: with regard to his connection to separatist-racist Rev. Wright; Obama summons voodoo and juju to express slavery as beginning and ending with the Rev. Wright.
In the second prawn: Obama’s speech takes credit for Ashley’s dream. A dream of unity Martin Luther King, Jr. borrowed from Ashley for his historic "I Have A Dream" speech. In Obama’s speech, the connective bond Ashley, the elderly black man and Obama’s grandmother share; represents Obama’s self-indicting rise to the Harvard Yard. For Obama, the grand flag of language is the semi-fore of words, bestowed upon our nation by the messiah-alumni from Harvard. Obama’s Swoon-Song Apologia to the nation represents a failed hymn — a hymn that fails to heal the nation, repair the world, or make this time different than all the rest. Obama’s speech is a brilliant failure.

http://www.halliburtonwatch.org/
 
Written By: Janet Reno
URL: http://www.halliburtonwatch.org/

 
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