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McCain, Kerry and the presidential election
Posted by: McQ on Saturday, March 29, 2008

Democrats are going to have to eat some words this year in order to make the argument that McCain isn't the best qualified to be Commander-in-Chief.

Of course that came to the fore yesterday when the McCain campaign introduced a 60 second ad which touts his Vietnam and military experience as a part of the whole package. It was introduced only in New Mexico, but will probably be seen nationwide eventually. It is an effort to A) introduce McCain to those who don't really know him but are finally starting to pay attention to the election and B) keep his name in front of the voters.

Naturally the Democrats, through Howard Dean, simply had to have a reaction.
“John McCain can try to reintroduce himself to the country, but he can’t change the fact that he cast aside his principles to stand shoulder-to-shoulder with President Bush the last seven years. While we honor McCain’s military service, the fact is Americans want a real leader who offers real solutions, not a blatant opportunist who doesn’t understand the economy and is promising to keep our troops in Iraq for 100 years.”
Funny stuff considering Dean's defense of former Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry:
"Who would you rather have in charge of the defense of the United States of America, a group of people who never served a day overseas in their life, or a guy who served his country honorably and has three Purple Hearts and a Silver Star on the battlefields of Vietnam?"
In 2004 that sort of a guy was the most qualified. In 2008 that sort of guy is a 'blatant opportunist'.

My how the world changes when the medals are hanging on the other guy's candidate, huh Howard?
 
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Previous Comments to this Post 

Comments
OMG are you saying politicians are hypocrites? news at 11!!
 
Written By: slntax
URL: http://
"a blatant opportunist who doesn’t understand the economy "
Meh, I’d prefer the dunce who knows he doesn’t understand the economy to the one who thinks they know it all.
 
Written By: ck
URL: http://
Well, we thought that they were important, and you guys disagreed. You guys wore purple heart band aids while cheering on a couple of draft dodgers. So let’s put the shoe on the other foot: Why were they not important then, but important now?
 
Written By: IanY77
URL: http://
I’ve said it before: military experience is only important when the Democrats have it. Look at the elections of 1992, 1996, and 2004.
 
Written By: Steverino
URL: http://
Well, we thought that they were important, and you guys disagreed.
Uh, no. No one disagreed that all of that isn’t important, what we disagreed about was the story that Kerry was telling and the truth of it.

For whatever reason "you guys" haven’t ever been able to figure that out.
 
Written By: McQ
URL: http://www.QandO.net
"what we disagreed about was the story that Kerry was telling and the truth of it."

By following a bunch of liars who told you what you want to hear. Politics may end at the waterfront, but for Republicans, support for the troops and veterans ends at the RNC convention door. Likewise I suppose you disagree with Ann Coulter’s assertion that Max Cleland was no hero and was simply a klutz.

For you guys, medals only count when they hang from a Republican’s chest. That’s what we’ve figured out.
 
Written By: IanY77
URL: http://
ou guys wore purple heart band aids while cheering on a couple of draft dodgers
I take it you supported the veterans GHW Bush and Bob Dole against the draft dodger Clinton?
 
Written By: Steverino
URL: http://
For you guys, medals only count when they hang from a Republican’s chest. That’s what we’ve figured out.
*YAWN*

Is THIS the best you can do?

 
Written By: shark
URL: http://
" Ann Coulter’s assertion that Max Cleland was no hero and was simply a klutz."

You disagree? In addition to the source cited by Ann Coulter, there is another eyewitness account at—-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Cleland

These accidents happen. I have seen a couple myself. Grenades are trickier than they seem and hanging them from loops on a flak jacket, while a universal practice, has caused many such accidents.

In a weird coincidence it seems that, according to the wikipedia article I cited, he was in the same battallion I was in.


 
Written By: timactual
URL: http://
As for Cleland, it seems it was clumsiness and inexperience that hurt him. But this doesn’t mean he’s not a hero; he was part of the military and believed that he was fighting on the side of America and freedom. The fact that an accident took him out of that fight doesn’t make the bravery he showed any less.

Unless, of course, you blame each individual soldier for the mistakes of their government. Soldiers compartmentalize their jobs - they don’t want to have to make judgments on the validity of each action in a war. They can’t see the big strategic picture. They do their job; if they step outside it then it can become a war crime.

Cleland was attempting to do his job. He should not be blamed for death and violence by the left, nor diminished because he didn’t fight by the right. Here, Ann Coulter has again overstepped the bounds of level-headed conversation.
 
Written By: Zeno
URL: http://sosoonnomore.blogspot.com/
By following a bunch of liars who told you what you want to hear.
Hardly. We actually looked into the contested events and found Kerry’s explanations to be rather dubious at best. You’re welcome to peruse the August ’04 archive where most of it is found if you have any doubts.
For you guys, medals only count when they hang from a Republican’s chest.
Hardly. Again, your preconceived notions do not equal the beliefs of others no matter how hard you try to claim it does.
Likewise I suppose you disagree with Ann Coulter’s assertion that Max Cleland was no hero and was simply a klutz.
I have no idea what Ann Coulter said, nor do I care, but I know the fact is that Max Cleland’s injuries come from a non-combat mistake. I find his effort to overcome the adversity he faced after that to be heroic, but his injury really had little to do with heroics.
 
Written By: McQ
URL: http://www.QandO.net
........... how many training aircraft did our eminently qualified McCain destroy? ...and how after the first did he get a second .....and after the second did he get a third............ Think how qualified our military would be if we could let everyone keep trying ’til they got it right......
Well you are right, he has had more practice.
 
Written By: darohu
URL: http://
........... how many training aircraft did our eminently qualified McCain destroy? ...and how after the first did he get a second .....and after the second did he get a third............ Think how qualified our military would be if we could let everyone keep trying ’til they got it right......
And your expertise in combat flying comes form where? Erick Hartman, the WWII German ace with 352 aerial victories was shot down 14 times. Barkhorn, another German ace with 301 victories, was shot down 17 times and lost his right thumb in one aerial encounter. I know of many US fighter pilots who have ditched more than one American jet - F-4, F-16, F-111, etc - and then went on to command squadrons, wings and even Numbered Air Forces in their celebrated careers. George Bush, the Senior, on at least one occasion was shot down and rescued by submarine during WWII and went on to lead this country as President. So, before you talk out your *ss, try to do so with some level of credibility. Until then - go back to your video games!
 
Written By: SShiell
URL: http://
"Here, Ann Coulter has again overstepped the bounds of level-headed conversation. "

Why is it out of bounds for her to point out that Democrats were exaggerating Cleland’s record?




"how many training aircraft did our eminently qualified McCain destroy?"

You should do a little research before you shoot your mouth off.
 
Written By: timactual
URL: http://
All of this blather about what military service is has more authority in a political discussion is really rather tiresome. There are plenty of things that both sides can disagree with John McCain over - but trying to argue over his service is juvenile.

John Kerry made his service the pivot point of his campaign - including the "John Kerry reporting for duty" pre-basic training salute - that’s what made him a target.

Ann Coulter isn’t running for office - she can say whatever she wants and it doesn’t reflect upon me or my politics.

The Democrats have been disqualifying the service of Republican candidates since George H. W. Bush named Dan Quayle as his running mate. personally, I’m pretty tired of it all. Especially from the part which rapes the military every time they get in the White House.

I’m pretty sure Howard Dean doesn’t want us to drag out his draft dodging antics again.
 
Written By: Jonn Lilyea
URL: http://thisainthell.us
"John Kerry reporting for duty"

So we know that Kerry meant duty, as in he was prepared to take on the duties of being President, but used language intended to explicitly evoke his military service, and a result of that, it was decided that Kerry was making his military service the centerpiece of his campaign.

So John McCain is embarking on his "Service to America Tour".

Hmm, what does that language evoke?

It could mean anything right, just serving your country in ANY way, right?

Mitt Romney said his kids were serving our country by campaigning for him, and that didn’t evoke any images of military service, right?

So, when people start Swift Boating McCain, and then defenders of this Swift Boating claim he made his military service the centerpiece of his campaign, y’all are going to be on board right?

By the way, I really hope that doesn’t happen, and I denounce the slimeballs in the link above, but it’s the whole petard hoisting thing that I hear so much about around here. So how long before some shadowy individual funds this group, or one like it, to create questions.

And how long before the people who drank deeply of the Kerry Swiftboating, will be denouncing McCain’s attackers, and those that denounced Kerry’s Swiftboating will be talking about just desserts.








 
Written By: Captin Sarcastic
URL: http://
I guess the fact that Kerry just happened to have a movie camera in Vietnam (at a time when a movie camera would have cost several months pay for an average Joe in Vietnam) and just happened to reenact his his heroics for the camera while his subordinates filmed him strutting about in the jungle in full combat gear (something else a swiftboat crewman wouldn’t normally do) and that film made into Kerry’s premiere as the Democrat candidate didn’t set off any bells in your noggin?

And THREE MONTHS in Vietnam don’t count as a lifetime of experience. Being an Army retiree, I’ve seen lots of guys like Kerry - most of them with chapter paperwork in their hands headed for home with a bad conduct discharge.
 
Written By: Jonn Lilyea
URL: http://thisainthell.us
I’ve seen lots of guys like Kerry - most of them with chapter paperwork in their hands headed for home with a bad conduct discharge.
And how do we know this is not true of Kerry? Anybody seen his military records lately? You know, the ones he publicly swore he would release? Anybody? Bueller? Anyone? Captain Sarcastic? Anyone? Erb?

- crickets chirping -
 
Written By: SShiell
URL: http://
You know, the ones he publicly swore he would release?
I keep hearing that Kerry hasn’t released his military records, and I remember reading this back in 2004 that he did release his records.
WASHINGTON — Senator John F. Kerry, ending at least two years of refusal, has waived privacy restrictions and authorized the release of his full military and medical records.
On May 20, Kerry signed a document called Standard Form 180, authorizing the Navy to send an ’’undeleted" copy of his ’’complete military service record and medical record" to the Globe.
Was there something else you wanted to see, or are you uspest that he did not release the records to you personally?

Crickets chirping



 
Written By: Captin Sarcastic
URL: http://
Sorry, Cap. I stand corrected. As quoted from Wikipedia:
After the election, on May 20, 2005, he did sign a Standard Form 180, allowing full release of all his military service and medical records to the Associated Press, the Boston Globe, and the Los Angeles Times. Kerry refused a request from the New York Sun to permit the Sun’s reporters to inspect the records.
Note: Emphasis mine. Question - where can you see those released records today?
 
Written By: SShiell
URL: http://
Question - where can you see those released records today?
Answer - Who cares?
 
Written By: Captin Sarcastic
URL: http://
"For you guys, medals only count when they hang from a Republican’s chest. That’s what we’ve figured out. "

Typical democrat. Medals which are EARNED due count. And people dont normally put themselves in for medals like Kerry did. Not to mention his V for Valor on a Silver Star (per his released records) when Silver Stars DON’T have Valor devices.


"Answer - Who cares? "

Well obviously you do until you caught with both feet in your mouth. Ortherwise you wouldnt have responded above with

"I keep hearing that Kerry hasn’t released his military records, and I remember reading this back in 2004 that he did release his records."









 
Written By: retired military
URL: http://
Answer - Who cares?
Well, i do or I would not have asked the question. Kerry swore to release his records. As your link showed, he signed the papers but where are the records? I made a mistake regarding his release - I admitted it. I then asked of you a legitimate question - where are they. And your response was what? C’mon Cap. An answer like that is something I would expect to hear from someone like Erb. I thought better of you than that.
 
Written By: SShiell
URL: http://
Well, i do or I would not have asked the question. Kerry swore to release his records. As your link showed, he signed the papers but where are the records? I made a mistake regarding his release - I admitted it. I then asked of you a legitimate question - where are they. And your response was what? C’mon Cap. An answer like that is something I would expect to hear from someone like Erb. I thought better of you than that.
Sorry, it was more of a knock on Kerry’s irrelevance.

I am not an expert on this, but from what I understand, these releases are requested by organizations, and the subject, Kerry in this case, may sign the form for a full release with no deletions of redactions, or he may refuse.

Kerry apparently acquiesced to the Globe’s request and refused the rest.

But as you noted, and I missed, this was in 2005, long after the election was over, and the records did not show what the Switboaters had intimated it would, but in fact made Kerry look pretty good. But at that point, why should we care, he is irrelevant.

That’s all I was saying.

 
Written By: Captin Sarcastic
URL: http://
But at that point, why should we care, he is irrelevant.
I agree with you completely. Kerry is completely irrelevent. (My bad, Cap - couldn’t help myself)
 
Written By: SShiell
URL: http://

 
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